Ebay sides with buyer on a $1200 return, even though damaged.
Buyer waits until last day, files for a return on a cherry amber bakelite necklace stating it did not look the same in the pictures I posted. He used a different necklace in his picture asking for the return, hiding the ends that would have identified it without question. eBay sided with the buyer, but said that if I had a problem I could file with eBay. The necklace was returned with the strand cut and chemical residue on the beads. I was told by ebay that I should email the buyer with the complaint and no pay, as it was clearly damaged. The buyer then opened a complaint that I did not refund him. He even stated that the beads were broken by him and that the strand was weak and it broke while packing. I could not respond to this though I did put in the message buyer a picture of the string ends that had a clean cut that was obviously not due to the string being weak but to being cut with a knife.
Ebay then decided the case in the buyer's favor, closing it as seller taking no action, even though I was told not to by Ebay.
I appealed the case showing the damaged beads, and they sent me a note we truly care, fill out this form. within 12 hours they let the case stand because even though it was broken, it could not be shown it was the buyers fault. Then they charge my account, and for the full amount of the sale, not deducting their fee.
As a result of this I have decided to end all my buy it know listings, I have taken down about 400, 600 to go. I feel that Ebay is not a safe platform for me, nor do I consider Ebay a reliable partner. Even though I have hear many stories like this, it is still quite amazing to me that Ebay would take the word of a person with a 3 year history on Ebay and less than ten feedback over myself with over 25 years selling and an almost perfect record, with close to 30,000 feedback.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@baltimorejohn From what listings you have still running, MAN you have some cool stuff, I am drooling over here!
But regarding the returned necklace, I'm a bit confused. You said the photo the buyer used to file the return appeared to be a different necklace, but then when you got the return package "the" necklace was damaged. So do you believe they sent back the same one you sold (albeit damaged) or a completely different one? Is it the same number of beads or are any missing? Have you tested with Simichrome to discern if they're real Bakelite? And what kind of chemical residue is on them? Have you tried wiping/washing it off?
Reason I ask all these questions: Whether you still have any hope of an appeal to get eBay to refund you (which I don't know), if the beads ARE genuine cherry amber Bakelite, they are still worth a lot of money. No, not nearly as much as an intact necklace, but just like a broken necklace made of gold, you can still get decent money from the beads' total gram weight. I would unstring them, clean them up, weigh them, and sell them as a loose bead lot.
pickapaper
·4 months ago@gurlcat
You are way more of a jewelry expert than I am, but with what I do know (besides being a long time lover of bakelite), I was just thinking the exact same thing that you said. OP didn't say anything about getting back a different necklace so I assumed it was his that he got back. And he indicated the strand had been cut but I have seen these old cords break from age and wear, and break cleanly, not ravelled out. Also, I agree that those beads are also valuable as loose beads (rather than strung) and I think he is going to be able to resell them for almost as much as much as before.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@pickapaper Exactly. Heck if none were missing I would actually just restring them myself, and give the necklace a better clasp than that rather small and plain spring ring. I would also do some looking around to see if it's desirable (or even acceptable) for these to be knotted between beads, and if so then I would do that too. I know their value has something to do with religious significance, which is weird because they're manmade and not ancient or anything, but for all I know, maybe knotting wouldn't be appropriate.
Ugh, look at me fantasizing about having cherry amber Bakelite beads, man I WISH! 🤣 It's kinda surprising I've never come across any, out of the hundreds of jewelry lots I've sorted. Certainly found more gold than you might expect, as well as many other Bakelite pieces. I even found a necklace of big Bakelite beads exactly like these but they were butterscotch amber, not cherry.
lakefor94
·4 months agoIf the OP got the same neckless back and had filed the refund deduction, he/she would have made out like a bandit.
Though, the OP (TRS) did not accept returns on the original listing, thus did not qualify to do any such refund deduction...... oh well......
gurlcat
·4 months ago@lakefor94 Ooof, you're right! I just wish the OP would come back and participate in his thread.
inhawaii
·4 months agoI agree with your decision. I would take down those remaining listings asap.
I also think that ebay should settle all disputes between buyers and sellers based on who has been here the longest.
stainlessenginecovers
·4 months agoThis makes NO sense
'buy it now' is NO different than an auction- buyers can do the same.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@stainlessenginecovers Exactly. There is nothing about auctions that make them less risky of bad buyers. And perfect case in point: Um, THE necklace in question was an auctioned item!!! 😆 Granted, they haven't started any new auctions since the 14th, so maybe they just wanted to let all current auctions run out their time, then not relist any unsold ones?
quadcitypickers
·4 months agoYou have two things in your favor.
1. The case was closed without resolution, and as you claim, the rep told you to wait. I had this happen to me to ages ago, and reps need to quit handing out incorrect information.
2. The buyer admitted damaging it which is not congruent with the MBG, which states the item has to be returned in the same condition it was sold in.
You need to contact eBay until you get a competent rep, and firmly hold your ground on those two points alone.
Very clearly tell them incorrect information give out by your (Ebay's) own support reps led to this being closed without resolution, and show them the emails/etc where the buyer admitted damaging.
If you have Instagram, reach out to "eBay for sellers" first.
m60driver
·4 months agoYour sales on Ebay seem to be robust so why are you ending listings due to one bad buyer? So you learned a tough lesson about selling high value items. It is a risk I am not willing to take unless my cost in the item is minimal.
kibble-net
·4 months agoWhat would you have done if you owned a brick and mortar store and this happened? Same end result I suppose, close up shop and blame your credit card processor.
Why don't you take this buyer to small claims court instead of expecting ebay to do that for you?
If this is what causes you to close your business after 25 years, then it was probably going to be closing no matter what.
lakefor94
·4 months agoSo you think selling online with a venue that uses a payment processor is supposed to be flawless, @baltimorejohn ?
In all your experience over the years, why in the world would you be communicating with eBay about your transaction? And then believing what they tell you?
Sellers have to handle these buyer issues on their own, within and according to eBay policy. It really ain't that hard.
Worse case scenario should have been a seller doing a 50% refund deduction on the refund processed by the SELLER, and eBay keeping the transaction fees.
Flushing all the work you put into those listings @baltimorejohn is really shooting yourself in both feet.
Better luck next time on whatever you might decide.
pickapaper
·4 months ago@baltimorejohn wrote: " As a result of this I have decided to end all my buy it know listings, I have taken down about 400, 600 to go. I feel that Ebay is not a safe platform for me, nor do I consider Ebay a reliable partner."
First of all, eBay is not your "partner". They provide a platform for you to sell your items, for which they charge you a fee. They make the rules and policies, and for a seller to sell here, they must adhere to those rules and policies.
I have never understood why a long-standing seller, such as yourself with almost 30 years and 40K items sold, will give it all up because of one transaction that goes south. That is like shooting yourself in one knee and both feet. With your record, if you have not had things go wrong in the past, you are incredibly lucky. Things are never going to go perfectly, especially in this day and age. It isn't like it was when we first started; now buyers are more entitled and refuse to accept responsibility. Many sellers take a few cents from each transaction and put it into a virtual rainy day fund, to cover things like this when it happens.
I hope when you calm down a bit and have more time to digest it, that you will reconsider and keep selling and not give it all up because of that one buyer. If you move to another site, you are going to have problems there too. And like someone else said, you might want to limit selling higher-dollar items on eBay. Many sellers have done just that for various reasons including fraud, damage, switcheroos, etc.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoHave to say that this was an excellent response!
mudshark61369
·4 months ago@baltimorejohn ,
In over 20 years of selling on ebay I've only had this situation pop up twice. Once the buyer's photo was missing described and photographed damage, and ebay sided with me.
The other time I opened a mail fraud claim with the postal inspectors, told the buyer and sent them the case number, telling them the Feds would be contacting them. That buyer responded saying something like "I made a mistake and sent you the wrong item back" and quickly shipped my item back on their dime.
Why would you ship expensive items using USPS Ground Advantage and seemingly without Insurance?
chewgumwalk
·4 months agoVery cool, opening that mail fraud case! I will definitely remember that!
gurlcat
·4 months ago@tarotfindsandmore This^ sounds like what I was talking about with your bracelet. eBay employee wrongfully instructed the seller with assurances they wouldn't have to refund for damage done by the buyer.
The only time I ever won a 'Report Problem' return case was when a buyer shipped back junk instead of the item they bought. And I'm 99% sure that's not even why I won (because photos never can prove who-did-what), but because my buyer started the return before the item was even delivered to them, LOL!! So in that sense I think I just got lucky that my scammer was incredibly stupid.
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoI'll probably just use the Report a Problem option and deduct 50% of the refund to avoid this kind of headache. The transaction has already been flagged and two reports have already been submitted alerting the system to the return fraud so I'll likely just go with the prorated refund option in the interest of time and sanity.
I have won bogus return cases in the past (both with high ticket and low ticket items) so I know it can be done, but again my current bogus return probably isn't worth the time or energy. If I deduct 50%, I won't have lost any money and it will be done with. As I mentioned in my own thread, I just don't have a whole lotta feeling about it. I posted the thread because the situation was so ridiculous.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@tarotfindsandmore Yes I think the 50% deduction you know you can take without any unforeseen problems is the best bet. And yeah in your case I get why it's not a big deal either way ($30 sale), and that the buyer's claim itself was the absurdity.
bonanza125
·4 months agoWell when selling on Ebay there is a risk of losing an item or buyer scamming you. It comes down to how much risk you wanted to take. $1200 is a lot and personally I wouldn't have used Ebay to sell a $1200 item. Ebay is going by it's 30 day moneyback guarantee policy. The only thing you can do is take this buyer to court. What you should've done was place a limit on the value amount you are selling. As in anything over say a $500 value should be removed if you aren't willing to take a risk. Now as you are aware majority of the time things go fine without issue. Unfortunately this time for you I completely understand this was a big hit.