Ebay sent cockroaches and Spiders to people..
this was a while back, ebay was found guilty of sending cockroaches and spiders to people( who I assume had held there feet to the fire). anyway fyi, this is the kinda people yer dealing with..
137 comments
soh.maryl
·2 years agoSince eBay sells NOTHING and ships NOTHING, hard to understand how they could manage to ship ANYTHING to ANYONE.
I did not read the original story, however.
chapeau-noir
·2 years ago?
valueaddedresource
·2 years ago@soh.maryl this has nothing to do with how the eBay marketplace normally operates in the course of business as far as whether eBay is selling/shipping anything or simply acting as "just a venue".
In this case, eBay security personnel ordered various items like bugs, a bloody pig mask, a funeral wreath and book on surviving the death of a spouse, a dead preserved fetal pig (thankfully this one was not actually delivered), adult videos/material, etc. from various businesses and had those items shipped directly to the victims as part of a cyberstalking and harassment campaign.
chapeau-noir
·2 years ago@broto_64 It's legally "corporate personhood". It's a concept dating back to the middle ages, but in the US, judicial opinion has invoked the 14th amendment's equal protection clause to grant constitutional protections to corporations.
Unfortunately, this gave birth to that monster known as Citizens United.
valueaddedresource
·2 years agoThanks @chapeau-noir!
For those unfamiliar with the term/concept, Wikipedia has at least a basic outline and I'm sure those who are interested can find other resources and references from there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
Corporate personhood or juridical personality is the legal notion that a juridical person such as a corporation, separately from its associated human beings (like owners, managers, or employees), has at least some of the legal rights and responsibilities enjoyed by natural persons. In most countries, a corporation has the same rights as a natural person to hold property, enter into contracts, and to sue or be sued...
...Legislation in the United States
Federal statutes that refer to "persons" generally include both natural and juridical ones, unless a different definition is given. This general rule of interpretation is specified in Title 1, section 1 of the U.S. Code,[18] known as the Dictionary Act, which states:
In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, unless the context indicates otherwise—
the words "person" and "whoever" include corporations, companies, associations, firms, partnerships, societies, and joint stock companies, as well as individuals;
This federal statute has many consequences. For example, a corporation may enter contracts, sue and be sued, and be held liable under both civil and criminal law. Because the corporation is legally considered the "person", individual shareholders are not legally responsible for the corporation's debts and damages.
There's certainly plenty of room to question and debate some of the applications and decisions over the years (your mention of Citizen's United for instance).
But in general, regardless of my personal thoughts on the concept of corporate personhood, at the very least I wouldn't call the DOJ's decision to bring criminal charges against eBay, the company, for its conduct in this situation (in line with 200+ years of US legal precedent and history that goes back much further) short-sighted. 😉
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoYes, on the other side of the Citizens United coin is the fact that the corporation also cannot unload its responsibility for their corporate culture (in this case immature bro) nor the fact that the buck stops at the CEO's desk when things happen on his/her watch, by scapegoating individual employees.
gone.c-33
·2 years agoTo be fair there IS all kind of illegal activity going on in all big corporations, we just choose to turn a blind eye because end stage capitalism.
mam98031
·2 years agoBlanket statements are rarely true. There is no way you could possible know that to be a fact. You are assuming because you may not like certain things any corporation does, that doesn't make it illegal. Assumptions are not facts.
gone.c-33
·2 years agoWage theft, OSHA violations, various types of workplace discrimination and other labor violations are rampant in big corporations.
No multibillion corporations has clean hands. I’ll stand behind that blanket statement anytime, anywhere.
mam98031
·2 years agoThat happens, I'm sure of it. But that doesn't mean it happens in every single Corporation.
Your entitled to your opinion, it is just highly unlikely to be true. Especially since there is no way you could know the inter workings of millions of corporations.
According to taxfoundation.org, the United States has 1.7 million traditional C corporations, 7.4 million partnerships and S corporations, and 23 million sole proprietorships. In 2019, the U.S. had 6,102,412 businesses that met the criteria for employee ownership.
campanaelia
·2 years agoHow can that be happening after trillions of dollars in tax cuts for those "job creators" since Reagan, employees should be treated like gold by now. You mean after 40 years of trickle down economics they were lying?
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoThat's about right.
 
thelongball
·2 years agoThey changed the airing date to Oct. 31st
kh-jean
·2 years agoHi everyone,
This discussion has gotten a bit heated. Please remember that, while it is fine to disagree with others, discussion should always remain friendly and respectful as required by the Community Guidelines.
Thank you for your cooperation.
campanaelia
·2 years agoIt's not old news since the case was finally settled in January of this year. Sure it happened a while ago but we all no justice takes time. Ebay was ordered in January to pay $3 million to the couple the ebay employees stalked and harassed. Besides the bugs they also sent a fetal pig, a bloody pig mask, live insects, a book on surviving the death of a spouse, and a funeral wreath. I never did hear about the final conclusion to the case so thanks for posting or I may have missed it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/01/11/ebay-settlement-harassment-employees-ina-david-steiner/72196339007/
inhawaii
·2 years ago"I don't like spiders and snakes....."
Sorry mam! 😉
mam98031
·2 years agoWhat the ____ does that have to do with what I posted?
simply-the-best-for-you
·2 years agoIt's the title of an old song, which is funny in reference to the title of this thread & @inhawaii always posts the great old songs 🙂 Jim Stafford IIRC. He's saying he's sorry cuz he bumped the thread that you didn't want bumped.
I personally still think it's a reasonable thing to discuss, even though it's old news. There is new news continually being made on it, including the short movie that came out yesterday. I personally find this whole story fascinating on many levels & am constantly learning new things about it, even though I'm pretty well informed. Plus lots of people still want to see Wenig held accountable.
inhawaii
·2 years agoYou wanted this thread to go away ,... but then I posted something! Sorry!
mam98031
·2 years agoWhy do we keep bumping this thread? Can't we just let the conversation go away on this old subject?
inhawaii
·2 years agoThe OP wanted to bring this old news to our attention for wheatever reason.
That's fine.
We all have varying degrees of reaction.
That's notmal.
chapeau-noir
·2 years ago@inhawaii I want to post songs after my sig., too, but I'd feel like such a
 
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoConfession time:
 
gloryglorygifts
·2 years agoNo longer. Those people are gone years ago and most have either done time, are doing time, or are about to do time (I think there was one not sentenced yet), and retribution will be paid.
If you aren't happy, and looking for another marketplace, there are a number of them out there for you. Just be aware that Amazon has a reputation for stealing seller's products that have made lots of money and selling them for themselves, crushing the original seller. Etsy? They don't even question if a claim about a store is legit or not. They just shut you down. So yeah, I'll stick with ebay who has helped me grow over the last 7 years. Good luck to you tho. Maybe the Temu marketplace is a good fit for you?
gone.c-33
·2 years agoAll multi billion dollars corporations are unethical, shady and immoral.
This is actually small potatoes compared to systemic mistreatment of employees, wage theft and tax evasion. What surprises me is that people are actually surprised at big companies misbehaving.
ten_o_nine
·2 years agoYou're referring to a past incident where eBay was involved in a controversy related to sending insects to users who had complained or caused issues for the platform. This incident was widely reported and led to a lot of negative publicity for eBay.
house*of*paws
·2 years agoHi @gabe101907
Yes, certain eBay employees behaved criminally several years ago. They were indicted, convicted and incarcerated for their crimes.
I don’t understand how this leads to your criticizing volunteers who offer guidance to fellow buyers and sellers so that they are able to navigate eBay more easily.
As a seller with items listed currently … it seems like you’re shooting yourself in the foot by posting a cryptic comment about cockroaches without any context.
Do you want buyers to think that they might receive cockroaches in
their packages if they purchase something from you?
I’m truly confused about the point you’re trying to make. 🤔
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoEbay, like all Internet marketplaces, has some sellers who loath and despise them. Many of them continue to do business with Ebay because they cannot find a better way to make a buck.
There are no Internet marketplaces I love or even like. I will sell on those which I can meet my sales and profit goals on, without undue pain and aggravation. In April of 2024 my choice is Ebay. What it will be in the future is beyond my ability to know.
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoThere's a docu-drama being aired on 25 April.
https://www.valueaddedresource.net/take-her-down-ebay-stalking-scandal-documentary/
That may have dragged it back up into the news cycle.
bonjourami
·2 years agoBet the Steiners are happy, even if its just a short Youtube film by a 'brother and sister production company.'
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoSome of those very small video producers do some excellent stuff, and tend to take more risks than the larger shareholder run outfits. It might be pretty good.
bonjourami
·2 years agoWell, fingers crossed for them then. Not that I didnt have sympathy for the Steiners at the time, that was a despicable act for those execs to do. But I do think the Steiners five minutes of fame were up a long time ago. But the horse contines to be beaten.
valueaddedresource
·2 years ago@bonjourami there's also a full length documentary about the subject that the Steiners extensively participated in which debuted and ran for multiple days at SXSW Film Festival last month and is currently seeking distribution - and that has been in the news as well.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt30833365/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_5_tt_7_nm_0_q_whatever%2520it%2520takes
https://www.rogerebert.com/festivals/sxsw-2024-whatever-it-takes-resynator-the-hobby
https://variety.com/2024/film/news/whatever-it-takes-documentary-first-clip-1235942545/
And if/when more details come out as this thing still has about a year before scheduled trial date, other documentaries or dramatizations might emerge as well.
While I understand to some degree that some may be tired of hearing the same information that has been known for a while rehashed, the fact is it's still far from being a settled matter as far as the courts are concerned and there could still be more of the story to be told.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"While I understand to some degree that some may be tired of hearing the same information that has been known for a while rehashed, the fact is it's still far from being a settled matter as far as the courts are concerned and there could still be more of the story to be told."
I thought it was settled with their recent three million dollar settlement? Or are the Steiners still trying for another civil settlement? But, maybe this is, as they say on SNL, 'the thing that wouldnt leave'.
valueaddedresource
·2 years ago@bonjourami it's not "another" civil case, it's the same one they have been fighting for all along and there has been no settlement in that case.
On the criminal side - there were 6 eBay employees and 1 contractor who all pleaded guilty to their parts in the federal felonies that were committed. 6 of those 7 have been sentenced (anywhere from a year of house arrest to over 5 years in federal prison depending on the role they played) and 1 is still awaiting sentencing because he was diagnosed with cancer so his sentencing hearing has been postponed multiple times but is now finally scheduled for July.
Also on the criminal side, eBay Inc was being investigated as to its culpability as a corporation with federal crimes related to the conduct of their employees.
The Department of Justice worked out a deal that defers prosecution of the corporation for those crimes if eBay meets all the requirements agreed to in that deal - which were basically 3 years of enhanced corporate compliance monitoring and a $3 Million fine.
Importantly, as in most criminal cases whether at the local, state, or federal level, those charges are brought by the government entity with jurisdiction and any fines are paid to the government, not to the victims.
Think of it like if you got a ticket for reckless driving after you caused a car accident....the money (fine) you pay for that ticket gets paid to the court (government) and goes into various law enforcement or community funds, not to the person whose car you hit.
The $3 Million eBay paid as part of that deal to avoid further criminal prosecution was paid to the US Treasury, not the Steiners. Also as part of the deal, eBay had to agree to/acknowledge the facts of the case (or Information) and their culpability/responsibility for their employee's conduct just like the individuals who pleaded guilty had to "cop" to their part in the crimes as well.
Excerpt from the actual agreement:
In addition to the Department of Justice pursuing criminal charges against the eBay employees most directly involved and against the company itself, the Steiners also filed a civil lawsuit against those same employees, the company and then CEO Devin Wenig, Chief Communications Officer Steve Wymer, VP Global Operations Wendy Jones and Progressive F.O.R.C.E Concepts LLC (the security company through which one of those charged criminally was contracted to work for eBay).
That civil case was filed by the Steiners on July 21, 2021 and has been ongoing since that time with no settlements or judgements yet paid to the Steiners. There is a civil trial date set for March 2025 if no settlement is agreed to before then.
bonjourami
·2 years agoThough the settlement was reached and finalized in January..it took the Steiners five years to get it, so I supposed they earned it,and I would hate to see their attorneys fees. I had understood they were trying to open another civil case against each Ebay employee that was involved..but maybe that was just internet gossip.
https://www.wbur.org/news/2024/01/11/settlement-reached-in-ebay-cyberstalking-case
valueaddedresource
·2 years ago@bonjourami please tell me where in that article it says the Steiners received any part of that January settlement with the DOJ to avoid further criminal prosecution?
I'll help you out, it doesn't say that anywhere because it's not true...period.
The $3 Million from the deferred prosecution agreement and the $40,000 and $20,000 criminal fines they mention that were paid by Baugh and Harville (which by the way, several others who pleaded guilty also paid fines) were paid to the government as shown in the except I provided from the actual DOJ agreement and also shown in the sentencing documents for each of the individuals who pleaded guilty where those amounts are explicitly listed as "fines" not "restitution" both of which carry specific legal definitions that tell you exactly where that money did or did not go.
You don't even have to take my word for it....all of this is part of court records that are publicly open and available to anyone who cares enough to research and make sure they have an informed opinion based on the facts of the actual cases.
It's not internet gossip, you appear to simply be either misinformed or misunderstanding how any of this actually works or what that article was actually talking about.
Everything in that article is about the criminal side of the matter up to the last sentence that says "The Steiner's filed a separate civil suit against eBay that is still pending" which is referencing the one and only civil suit that has ever been filed by the Steiners, which happened on July 21, 2021 and that is still ongoing and heading for trial next year.
Unavailable member
·2 years agoThat was like eons ago.....we care about this why?
If you actually read the whole story, it had nothing to do with buyers and sellers.
bonjourami
·2 years agoYes, and I wonder who 'they' is.Those perpretators went to prison, hardly 'a slap on the wrist'.
az93
·2 years agoIt may be old news, but we are all still paying for it with fees.
bonjourami
·2 years agoNo news like old news.
isaiah53-57
·2 years agoYeahhh...Why would we ever want to bring up old news - you know like Enron, Tyco, Lehman Brothers, Equifax, etc..Surely we should just forget about these things and move on - Who cares if that makes it easier for future companies and CEO's to pull the same scams or failings...
We are talking about a company using strongarm tactics to stomp on the people's First Amendment Rights of the Constitution of the United States -
This should be unforgettable - I think they should make a movie about it - Who knows, maybe they will after it all plays out.
bonjourami
·2 years agoWell its been 'played out' for quite a while now, and so far, no movie. I dont think the 'company' was responsible for those few nitwits though.You will find nitwits in every large 'company'.
isaiah53-57
·2 years agoOf course that is EXACTLY what you would say - ebay is infallible according to you and several other full-time posters here... I would beg to differ emphatically..
bonjourami
·2 years agoSince Ive been selling here for twenty five years, I hardly think Ebay is infallible at all,kind of funny that you would say that.....I just dont think a company is responsible for a few bad apples thats all.
isaiah53-57
·2 years agoI don't believe you get a "few bad apples" to the extent they were bad without a culture behind them...
But yes, I was exaggerating when I used the term "infallible" - Though I'm sure it will be quite some time before I see a post from you that can be in any way, shape of form, construed as critical of the company.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"I don't believe you get a "few bad apples" to the extent they were bad without a culture behind them...
But yes, I was exaggerating when I used the term "infallible" - Though I'm sure it will be quite some time before I see a post from you that can be in any way, shape of form, construed as critical of the company."
Throw out the baby with the bath water, eh? I actually have never posted here with any criticism of the company. Because Ive never had a serious enough problem to post about. But if one comes up, Ill sure let you know.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoit's just as likely to be a long time before we see a post from you that is construed as complimentary to the company.
No one is saying ebay is perfect, no one says that no company has no bad apples, no one says ebay is lopsided in its treatment of members based on whether said members are buyers or sellers. But we've all made choices to either patronize or avoid businesses and in doing so, we accept the good with the bad.
Some of the benefits outweigh the negs.
gabe101907
OP2 years agoebay pays bots, (not sure if that's the right word) to be on these forums, and take there side and spin things, no matter how radically wrong they are. to make e bay look good and shift the blame. watch its pretty obvious
bonjourami
·2 years agoLOL..here we go again.
susanb1872
·2 years ago@gabe101907
Really, I'm not.
house*of*paws
·2 years ago@gabe101907
Wow! Who are these paid bots/posters on the forums? I’ve been posting here regularly for 18 years and have never come across any.
[I can assure you that I’d never do this for money … only as a volunteer. I wouldn’t want anyone trying to control what I say.]
gabe101907
OP2 years agoLol, you know, I know, and now you know that I know( I didn't fall with last nights rain)
mam98031
·2 years agoPROVE IT !!!
This and similar things are often said about other posters that simply don't agree with someone's outlook on things. If they don't agree with you, they must be wrong in some way.
It is really sad that many adults can't have a civil conversation with others that don't see things in the same way as they do. Over the years I've learn many things through debate.
Sad, very sad! 🤔
Bots are AI driven, so unlikely that they are on the payroll.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"Bots are AI driven, so unlikely that they are on the payroll."
R2D2 is not going to be happy to hear that. Idk, all the 'you must work for Ebay' nonsense is such an old cliche when op's are not agreed with, its just makes me laugh.All it does is make ops look foolish and paranoid. Some see conspiracy behind every shrub.
broto_64
·2 years agoThe issue here is when we think of "ebay" as a person.
"Ebay" is not a human being, we can not associate "ebay" with thought and action as if it were.
"Ebay" is an it, a large corporation that functions independent of individual thought or action.
And yes, every large corporation has bad apples working within it.
Every single one.
It doesn't make Enron the culpable party, it doesn't make Monsanto the most evil company in the world.
A company's lawyers (notice it isn't the "company" but their attorneys, these are paid professionals) ultimately may have to defend the comapny because of the actions of a few (or even more than a few, perhaps an entire department) but once again it isn't the "company" that is at fault but rather those individuals and yes they should and can and have been held responsible.
valueaddedresource
·2 years ago@broto_64 "it isn't the company that is at fault, but rather those individuals" - that's not exactly true, see my post #83 in this discussion.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Ebay-sent-cockroaches-and-Spiders-to-people/m-p/34424094/highlight/true#M2388928
The fact is that the Department of Justice charged eBay, the company, with 6 federal felonies - independent of and in addition to the charges that were brought against each of the 7 individual employees or contractors on the criminal side.
eBay, the company, negotiated a deferred prosecution agreement with the DOJ wherein it admitted to a detailed recitation of the relevant facts about its conduct - again, important to note that "its conduct" means the conduct of the company itself in addition to the fact that it is also liable for the actions of its employees.
As part of that deal, eBay agreed to undergo 3 years of independent compliance monitoring and to make changes to their ethics and compliance programs as required by the monitor and/or the DOJ - some of which have already been put in place or are in the process of being put in place.
That means in addition to being liable for the actions of its employees, eBay the company also failed to have adequate internal policies, procedures, reporting, and supervision in place to prevent the criminal activity that occurred and eBay the company is at fault for that, as admitted to in that agreement.
That is why the victims are also suing eBay the company, as well as the other defendants, and that the claims against eBay in particular include "negligent supervision" - eBay had a duty to have internal policies, procedures, reporting, training, supervision etc to ensure "a few bad apple" employees were not committing crimes in the course of their employment and/or using company resources and eBay failed to do so.
Responsibility and culpability in this situation absolutely falls on both the individuals who were directly engaged in the criminal activity and the company that failed to have adequate policies, procedures, and supervision in place to make sure that kind of thing couldn't happen on their watch.
eBay doesn't even really deny it is liable for the actions of the 7 people who were charged criminally (again as we can see in the deferred prosecution agreement) - the real hang up on the civil side is about the execs who were not charged criminally but who the victims allege egged on the harassment (with emails and text messages showing what eBay calls "inappropriate communication") and whether there is additional liability for the company because of what those execs said/did and how the company handled them once the plot unraveled and those communications became known.
broto_64
·2 years agoBut "ebay" didn't "do" anything because it can't.
If ALL employees, if every single person that works with at or has anything to do with ebay left the building...
No sellers got online, no buyers did, as in absolutely nobody would interact or have anything at all to do with ebay... At this point, what would "ebay" do?
Nothing.
Because ebay is an "it."
Ebay is not a person.
It is a corporation, there exists a building, a street may have been named after it, there's a sign outside and there is paperwork and computers and servers but in and of itself ebay is not capable of action (or at least not the kind that requires conscious or at the least independent thought).
I am not sure how you and many others don't understand the difference between a corporation and a person. It is too bad the DOJ is so shortsighted as to accuse an actual corporation of wrong doing when in fact it is the people that interacted with it that are guilty of misconduct, but if it makes you feel any better guess who is paying for all that?
We are.
The buyers, the sellers, the employees.
That is who pays for these lawsuits.
As to eBay the company having also failed to have adequate internal policies, procedures, reporting, and supervision in place to prevent the criminal activity that occurred and eBay the company is at fault for that, as admitted to in that agreement.
Yeah, I guess it was easier that way, rather than attempting to find the original employees who failed to implement all those policies and procedures (also it is possible ebay as a corporation grew so fast that the employees at the time never could implement all those changes and thus it is practical to hinge the blame on "ebay" however ebay didn't do time in prison for it now did it?)
The agreement ultimately has ebay subject to monitoring and so "it" had to implement...
But no, "it" can't do that...
Human beings do the monitoring, human beings do the implementing.
hartungcards
·2 years ago"You will find nitwits in every large 'company'."
Not to mention on every internet discussion board.
hartungcards
·2 years ago"This should be unforgettable - I think they should make a movie about it."
Yeahhh...and we can all get our own copies out of the "Nothing Over 99cents" DVD clearance bin.
bennotbill
·2 years agoIt is unforgettable and it joins the ranks of - no negs for buyers and FVF on postage.
A movie wouldn't get off the ground as a studio would probably object to eBay's insistence on 13% of the take.😀
siamjane8
·2 years agoI would imagine that the OP brought it up because it is in the current news cycle. "justice" moves slowly and although its been years- it is just making its way through the system. The plaintiffs just got awarded their court date for 2025 for the civil trial. Since ebay basically lost the criminal trial on so many levels- the civil trial will be an open and closed case rewarding them millions in damages.
It is a current issue because it effects ebay, and its shareholders, and its customers because as we run our businesses in an honest and honorable way- it makes us look bad if our "selling partner" is involved in egregious criminal activity.
Previous CEO Wenig got away with criminal activity by weaponizing ebay staff against reporters and got away with it, took a 50+ million dollar golden parachute from shareholders and moved on to work on the board of General Motors!
Talk about a criminal "old boys club". Is it old news.... I guess it is until they do it again because they got away with it with just a slap on the wrist.
az93
·2 years agoEgregious criminal activity? I say school boys tee-heeing about a prank. School boys that were running a multi billion dollar website.
valueaddedresource
·2 years ago@az93 each of the criminal defendants pleaded guilty to multiple federal felonies - for example:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/two-former-ebay-executives-sentenced-prison-cyberstalking
Baugh pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit stalking through interstate travel and through facilities of interstate commerce, two counts of stalking through interstate travel, two counts of stalking through facilities of interstate commerce, two counts of witness tampering and two counts of destruction, alteration and falsification of records in a federal investigation.
Harville pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit stalking through interstate travel and through facilities of interstate commerce, two counts of stalking through interstate travel and two counts of stalking through facilities of interstate commerce.
Other individuals charged pleaded to similar charges.
And in the recent settlement with the DOJ, eBay (the corporation) was charged and criminally with 6 federal felonies - two counts of stalking through interstate travel, two counts of stalking through electronic communications services, one count of witness tampering and one count of obstruction of justice.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/ebay-inc-pay-3-million-connection-corporate-cyberstalking-campaign-targeting
Objectively speaking, I don't think it is unreasonable to call multiple federal felonies "egregious criminal activity" and in fact I believe federal prosecutors, FBI investigators and judges involved in this matter have all said something very similar to that effect at various points in these cases.
gabe101907
OP2 years agoExactly, i personally know people and in a wider, business since that will not use ebay. some of who are non informed enough that they dont really get that eBay isn't a "store" or "company" that you buy stuff from directly like amazon of summit racing, or whatever..
mam98031
·2 years agoDo you realize how many law suits Amazon has against them? Some settled, some not. Some against employees and their illegal behavior and other reasons.