Ebay requiring trading card sellers to provide a grade on non graded cards IS INSANITY!!!!!!!
Here is the announcement for those that missed it...
1) Announcing a radical change to sellers, and less than 24 hours later having that change go live IS BEYOND THE PALE
2) Condition in any paper collectible is extremely subjective.. so subjective you could hand the same item to 5 different people and get 5 different opinions of condition. This is why grading exists..... to now REQUIRE sellers to give a condition on their items, puts us in a place where you can believe an items is XX condition.. but your buyer thinks the item is in XY condition. From this differing opinion, buyers can leave negative feedback on your account, open an "item not as described" case, or demand / extort partial refunds from sellers... simply because their opinion differs from yours.
CONDITION IS SUBJECTIVE NOT OBJECTIVE... THIS IS WHY GRADING EXISTS (I cannot write this loudly or enough times for someone to comprehend this)
Ebay is putting all trading card sellers in a horrible place with this insanely short sided, untested, dumb new rule... PLEASE TAKE IT AWAY ASAP!!!
knownobob
·2 years agoThey are requiring additonal work from people not trained on it to compare to a subjective list, creating their own system to describe the them which differs from industry standards using the same industry standard terminology here and there. It does not account for selling more than one card in the same listing.
Most of my cards fall in the lower end of the excellent category, but to a person not familiar with the categories they will think excellent is a bad description. It will require a lot more detail in the description or just putting the Poor label on them all and then describing them more accurately which might lower what people think of them?
I add my vote to the list of those that ebay needs to work on improving this roll out.
For buy it now this should be limited to cards above a certain price point similar to the shipping option for an envelope.
magomania
·3 years agoThe biggest problem the grades they provide are incomplete and the one they have the descriptions are inaccurate. They need to drop this or at the very least list all the grades with a proper description of each grade.
thelongball
·3 years agoDon't bother listing a Fair to Good Card as it will never sell now. It automatically goes to Poor on the new system
onefootflipper2
·3 years agoAside from the near impossible task of card sellers now having to go back and put in conditions on 10,000s of listings the other problem is that ebay's highest condition definition allows for cards in conditions that will absolutely draw complaints from picky customers.
I put my whole store on buy 1 get 1 free to move as much as I can before they force the specifics and I finally shut the store down.
carolynnq
·3 years agoIt's crazy to only have 4 condition categories. There's a whole lot of room between VG and Poor. They should have used the standard categories that card collectors use. IMO, if I were a buyer of what is a currently ungraded card, I'd make my own assessment based on the photos rather than the grade, so grading these seems unnecessary.
movieman630
·3 years agoAlways downplay condition on everything. Better to be one level under then one level above. Most people are happy when something is in better condition then they thought. Never the opposite. Play it safe.
imac7065
OP3 years ago@movieman630 again.. you are a person giving advice without experience with that comment... listing a trading card as "good" or "excellent" to a card person is like telling you an item is a 3 or 4 out of 10 quality... no one at ebay understands that because they don't consult the people they directly effect.
sakic92710
·3 years agoIt will definitely screw sellers over & cause a new influx of people quitting the site. Anyone think it won't cause great difficulties? Last time I sold a GRADED card, I had to refund for an INAD. It was GRADED!!! I still lost the case. Ungraded? Pffff Many, if not all, ungraded card sellers are going to give it up on this pathetic site.
thelongball
·3 years agoI'm stating what are the standards in grading as written in Becket and has been the go to for years:
GEM MINT - A card with no flaws or wear even under magnification. This grade is usually reserved for a card certified by a third-party grading company.
MINT (MT) - A card with no noticeable flaws or wear. The card has 4 square corners, 60/40 or better centering from top to bottom and from right to left, original gloss, smooth edges and original color borders. a mint card does not have distracting print spots, color, or focus imperfections.
Near Mint-Mint (NrMt-Mt) A card with one minor flaw. Any one of the following would lower a mint card to NrMt-Mt : one corner with slight touch of wear, barely noticeable print spots, color or focus imperfections. The card must have 60/40 centering in both directions, original gloss and original color borders.
NEAR MINT (NrMt) a card with one Minor flaw. Any of the following would lower a Mint card to Near Mint: one fuzzy corner or 2 to 4 corners with slight touches of wear, 70/30 to 60/40 centering, slightly rough edges, minor print spots, color or focus imperfections. The card must have original gloss and original color borders
As seen there are 4 categories that fall in the Mint end of things. None of which use the phrase out of the pack.
There are 2 categories in the Excellent range. The we go to Very Good, Good, Fair and Poor.
PLEASE Would Somebody At eBay take the time to read and research this a bit more so that your sellers DON'T Look Like Liars and Cheats.
Question ? How many nails does it take to make a coffin air tight ?
goodnu9
·3 years agoI agree 100%! eBay knows nothing about selling baseball cards. So now, I have to use 1 of 4 in the "Condition" category or eBay will not let the auction go live. Many of my single card auctions, in my descriptions are "Near Mint/Mint" but now eBay is forcing me to use "Near Mint or better" in their condition under the title, confuses the buyer! The buyers are seeing 2 different conditions of the card in my auctions! If eBay would use Mint thru Poor as everybody else does, perfect. But not eBay! They are the experts on nothing they know nothing about!
kalyoth
·3 years agoWill ebay delist active listings if they do not comply?
mike_jayroe
·3 years agoI am selling a lot of cards but 90% of them are entire sets from the 1990's and all are NASCAR. They are un graded and will remain so. I am selling at a 75% loss compared to what I paid for them back then. Why pay for grading when I will lose maybe 95% of what I am asking for them?
somanypostcards
·3 years agoWhen I clicked on the Announcement link and then clicked on Learn more, I was NOT impressed with the information in "Know your card's condition." First, there were only 4 grades: Near Mint or Better, Excellent, Very Good, and Poor. How about a 5th grade of Good? But mainly I was shocked at what was considered Excellent, such as Corners moderate wear, Edges chips and/or light indentation, Surface Indentations moderate, Scratches/Scuffing moderate, Creases minor surface wrinkles, Staining minor. How are these defects considered Excellent?
imac7065
OP3 years ago@somanypostcards as with many ebay "ideas" this was probably thought up via AI Algorithm or by a person who's never owned a trading card in their lives. They then roll it out live without consulting a single trading card seller, and expect people to just adapt to a new rule less than 24 hours after announcing it..... IE "good" and "very good" are both considered "bad condition" in grading. A lay person wouldn't understand this.....
The mere fact that ebay expects sellers to objectively decide something that's literally impossible to be objective about is infuriating.
stainlessenginecovers
·3 years agoI don't get the whole issue here. Just choose 'ungraded' or 'used' if it's NOT graded. "Graded" is NOT 'subjective' or 'objective'- it means that a professional entity has 'graded' the card (at least it is with Coins, Stamps, Diamonds etc.)
When/if left up to the 'seller', then it's either 'ungraded' or HAVE it professionally graded.
Why is this an issue?
Is there NOT a professional grading entity for trading cards??
cardxcraft
·3 years agoThere are professional grading services, but with most cards its not financially feasible to have them professionally graded.
In regards to selecting ungraded, its now required to select condition as well. Imagine large stores with tens of thousands if ungraded cards having to go back and condition them.
The condition problem had already been covered in the above posts.
imac7065
OP3 years ago@stainlessenginecovers please read the announcement... they took away "used" and now require the seller to provide a grade on non graded items.
maxine*j
·3 years ago@imac7065
Thanks. I begin to understand what the new requirements are, compared to the old, and the impact on sellers and buyers.
I do not understand why it's being done, but corporate eBay so often operates by whimsy and reaction.
Here's to the hope that they abandon this, and sooner rather than later.
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imac7065
OP3 years ago@stainlessenginecovers You also seemed to be under the assumption grading is easy.. it is not. It costs $15-50 to get a card graded by PSA, BGS, SGC, or CSG (the hobby accept graders)... on top of that it can take upwards of TWO YEARS to get your items returned from those companies (if you pay the $50 it gets back to you in about a month).... 99% of my personal listings are all under $20..... your idea of "just get it graded" puts me out of business.. a business I've run on here for over 20 years......
goodnu9
·3 years agoYes, we have to choose "graded" "or not graded" which is fine but we also have to choose the condition of the card. eBay only allows 4 choices in that category. In the real world of baseball cards, there are at least 9 choices. For example, the highest condition eBay allows me to use under the title is "Near Mint or better" but in my description, the card condition is actually "Near Mint/MInt". This confuses the buyer! So asinine!
maxine*j
·3 years agoI do not sell or buy cards, so I ask purely out of curiosity: What do you, and others who sell and buy cards, if you've spoken with them, think is the reason for this change? And why such a sudden change?
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imac7065
OP3 years ago@maxine*j ... my only guess? (semi educated guess) is that this is another in a long line of some algorithm telling ebay this is what they "should do" rather than actually consulting with the people that deal in this category every single day. Ebay makes many, many short sided decisions, lets them go live, and months later rolls back that decision without telling anyone.
For example when item specifics became a thing.. they had as many as 10 requirements for every trading card you listed.. making it next to impossible to list in bulk anymore... about 3 months later.. those requirements just vanished. I expect blowback from this will have a similar result.
luckythewinner
·3 years agoMy guess is that eBay analyzed the data for billions and billions of transactions and found that there seemed to be too many SNAD disputes in the card category.
eBay is not requiring a GRADE for ungraded cards. They are requiring a more precise condition for ungraded cards.
Buyers have always been able to dispute any transaction for SNAD whether it was justified or not. Any seller can stead any item from any seller at any time by filing a fraudulent SNAD. I can't see why adding a more precise condition requirement would change that.
luckythewinner
·3 years agoany buyer can steal any item
johnjefprks
·3 years agoThe problem with those guidelines is a lot of buyers will not be aware of them and be using Beckett or PSA condition guidelines which are considered the industry standard and a lot more demanding. It will exacerbate the problem Ebay says they are trying to eliminate, "Not as described".
imac7065
OP3 years ago@johnjefprks The ridiculous part.. if you're right on their motives... this will drastically INCREASE cases being opened for "not as described"
imac7065
OP3 years ago@luckythewinner You clearly have never sold trading cards with your response..... a microscopic issue that cannot be seen in a scan, or even in person without help of light or magnification can change the value of an item 100-1000x .... this is not an exaggeration. Asking sellers to be the service that people pay up to $50 per card for is insanity.
maxine*j
·3 years agoYes, as a non-card seller/buyer, I am still struggling with this. So, do I have this right?
A graded card is one that has been examined by a recognized expert who has assigned it a grade based on the card's condition. The card is then sealed in a holder, with the grade noted and a unique verification number added.
If a card is ungraded, a buyer makes his own judgement about condition, based on the photos and any in formation or description provided by the seller.
Under the new eBay system, you can still sell a card as ungraded but, in fact, the seller essentially must grade it because he must assign it a condition, choosing from among the grades eBay has come up with.
So, really, a card now is to be sold on eBay as Card Graded by Recognized Expert or Card Graded by Non-Expert. And, as the final kicker, the grades used by the experts and the grades used by eBay are rather dissimilar.
If I do have all that right, how can this possibly be an improvement, for either buyers or sellers?
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johnjefprks
·3 years agoYou have it right. The biggest problem is determining condition is very subjective and arbitrary. I do not put conditions in my listings because of this. I put a 1200 dpi scan of the front and back of the card and ask the buyer to look at the scan for condition. If there are any problems that can't be seen in the scan I put that in the title. I have seen a few seller state condition and I chuckle at what they determine the condition to be.
sextons-sweet-deals
·3 years agoI'm guessing a little along the line of pushing the authentication process eBay has.
johnjefprks
·3 years agoA lot of seller will quit if that ever happens. For the first time I sent about 15 cards to be graded about 2 years ago to see if it was worth it. When I sent them in the price was $15.00 per card one year later they sent me a bill for $50.00 card to get my cards back. It will be a long time if ever before I do that again. I listed a few of them and made sure I had the cheapest price at the time and 1 year later haven't sold one of them.
onefootflipper2
·3 years agoIt was the last straw to me deciding to close my ebay card store entirely.
Posted a video about it yesterday.
https://youtu.be/qW8d16iXce4
I am not leaving ebay, but I am leaving that category.
Unavailable member
·3 years agoI don't sell many cards - maybe a dozen over the past six months. All are "ungraded," but I do provide a condition for each one. How is this different than grading LP's? I've sold thousands of records - I have to assess the condition - and it is somewhat subjective. I 've had zero complaints. With cheaper records - which I'd sell in bundles - I give a range. Again, no complaints. Why can't it be the same with cards?
imac7065
OP3 years ago@powell-memorabilia I answered your question in the OP.... trading card condition is insanely subjective.. comparing it to vinyl is like comparing a 2023 Toyota Corolla to a 1952 Cadillac lol.... The tiniest nick, scratch, ding, or line on a trading card can send its value from $5000 to $5 and vice versa.... for comparison.. a PSA 8 Michael Jordan RC is about $8500... a PSA 10 is over $50,000.... to our naked eyes.. we probably couldn't spot the differences between the two. I hope this makes more sense for you now. There's a reason graded trading cards are one of the biggest industries in collectibles.
Unavailable member
·3 years agoThanks for the explanation!
goodnu9
·3 years agoBecause with baseball cards, along with other sports cards, all collectors, buyers, sellers, etc. use Mint thru Poor conditions. There's at least 9 different types of grade conditions dealing with baseball cards. eBay, who knows nothing about sports cards, decided to only use 4 grade conditions for our auctions. For example, in my description, the card condition is "Near Mint/Mint" but the highest I can go with eBay's condition under the title description is "Near Mint or better". You see where this confuses the buyers? eBay is saying one condition and I'm saying a different condition. So asinine!
tryno2
·3 years agoDo NOT give into to a request for a partial refund. I did a couple times when I first started selling. No more. They can't force you to do a partial refund, so just say no. Tell them to send the item back, mention that you have multiple close up photos to identify your item. Never had anyone send the item back.
imac7065
OP3 years ago@tryno2 you're preaching to the choir... but this new item specific opens pandora's box allow buyers to extort sellers at will. "your item said this was near mint.. I don't think it is..."
tryno2
·3 years agoI don't do baseball cards but that's always been there. I sell a new knife and some idiot says it's not. Or 100 year old tool and some dummy says it's less then 20 years old. They have always had the right to say an item wasn't as described