eBay messed up, Lawsuit en route.
I have a story to tell about how imcompentent eBay and why i have to sue them. I sold a Oneplus 12 phone to a buyer in early June. I sent the phone out in mint condition and the buyer receive the phone in mid June. A week later the buyer sent a return request by item not as described. The buyer states "I have a problem". That it. The buyer also send one picture but it in all black, showing nothing. The buyer sent the phone back that eBay provided to the buyer. The phone was out for delivery on July 1st but it was not delivered yet. I got a message from Customer service stating that the buyer put out a case against me and they are reviewing the case. Remember that post office did not comfirm that the item was delivered yet. Twenty minutes later CS wrote back to me and stated that the case has been closed with a refund to the buyer. It turns out that the phone was never delivered and the post office is sending it back to the buyer because the post office stated that there was no number to the address on the label. So I immediately appeal to eBay stated stating what i just said and today ebay CS ruled in the buyer favor saying that the buyer provided valid proof that the item was delievered. Now the real kicker is that eBay CS immediately sent we a message after the appeal to basically tell me it that i was my fault by me not updating my address and that I should talk to the buyer to ask him to resend the phone even though they already gave the buyer back his money. LOL
Now i am ready to sue eBay to get back my money but what do ya think??? Also i will send some pictures.
nctarheels82
·1 year agoThis is what they do they always side with the buyer no matter what. They are crooks
inhawaii
·1 year agoYou have over 70 items listed with these crooks? How come?
dbfolks166mt
·1 year agoYou have over 70 items listed with these crooks? How come?
Exactly and they have sold over 6,000 items and have 59 followers.
itsjustasprain
·1 year agoMeanwhile the OP is also staggering along with continued sales. Guess that lawsuit never happened. 😲
joond-0
·1 year agoWell, ebay is ajoke i do not recommend that app at all due something like that happened to me I bought a ps5 controller dualsense edge to moddezone and the seller sent me a standard controller so I put a bad feedback to the seller and returned the item back, the seller opened a case against me alleging lies like he sent me the right item blablabla and ebay close my account and the seller kept my money and his item.
mam98031
·1 year ago@joond-0
Oh there is so much more to that story. Ebay doesn't react that way to a buyer without some serious reason. Most everyone that posts here will know that when reading your story.
If this is something you really want to discuss and potentially learn from. I would encourage you to start your own thread and give all the details. Not the Seller's ID or stuff like that. That is not something you should post in the forums.
joond-0
·1 year agoWell, let someone like you who knows a lot about eBay explain it to me because the story is real, go and check my ex id jorgito-fk8 and you will see how many years and positive feedbacks.
mam98031
·1 year agoI said nothing of the kind, You might want to read my post a bit closer. I didn't say the story was not true, I said there are a whole lot of details left out. I stand by what I previously said. Why you took offense to it, IDK. I accused you of nothing.
robbie31415
·1 year agoIf it was a seller provided label then actual delivery doesn't matter.
All the buyer has to do is show proof of acceptance scan.
RTS back to buyer on a seller provided label means refund and item to buyer.
If you can show proof that the buyer altered the return label by a written statement from the carrier that could be used as evidence in an appeal.
An appeal without evidence of buyer wrongdoing will result in appeal denial.
mam98031
·1 year agoThe OP likely resolved their issue as it was about 2.5 months ago.
inhawaii
·1 year agoJust wondering how that lawsuit is going.
mam98031
·1 year agoWell the OPs listings are still active and they are making sales. Maybe they changed their mind!?!
affdeb2
·1 year agoHaha I contacted a lawyer today and 3 hours later the buyer finally contacted me saying he was going to return my cannon, I wonder what my lawyer said to him. I will call them in the morning and keep you updated on my case.
mam98031
·1 year agoIt is likely something similar to what I threaten buyers with a few times in my selling career here. I fortunately have not had to do it often. But your lawyer probably threatened them with Fraud charges connected with using USPS in the commission of a fraud, which is a Federal Crime. Maybe a police report for grand theft. Things like that.
affdeb2
·1 year agoadd me to the list ebay refunded customer even though I clicked do not given refund until I receive the item back. The item is a $5k Blunderbus cannon from a shipwreck. The customer still hasn't rreturned the cannon and it has been 2 weeks now since the customer was refunded and because ebay's return label print gave 2 errors during the process customer said label didn't print. I had a hell of a time getting a return label but I finally solved that issue with usps. anyways usps sent the return label to the customer and the tracking number states that the postofffice is still awaiting the item from the customer. He does not answer my ebay emails and I am going to him and ebay to small claims and include pain and suffering because I am losing my home due to the customer doing this. High Claims dept said it was up to me to get my cannon back well we will see about this!
mam98031
·1 year ago@affdeb2
Did the buyer open a Request for Return in Ebay?
Or did they open a dispute [aka Chargeback] directly with their payment source?
The answer is very important and each have different processes.
gone.c-33
·2 years agoAlright, but for real, why sue eBay? Why not sue the buyer who’s the actual fraudster/thief?
inhawaii
·2 years agoI think you should vigorously pursue this matter.
Please let us know how it turns out.
fbusoni
·2 years agoAnother lesson, amongst the thousands already discussed, testifying to why selling phones on eBay is only wise if you are a large corporation and can afford multiple losses.
mam98031
·2 years agoThis is an issue that catches sellers off guard sometimes. And you likely will not like my post.
Let's start with when you ship an item. You are the shipper on the shipping label and therefore you are responsible for the package until it gets delivered. So if it is damaged in transit the seller is held responsible. Of course if you have insurance on the package, you can make a claim against the carrier.
Same with returns. When a seller issues a return label to a buyer so they can return the item, the seller is the shipper on that label. That means you are responsible for that package too like you are in the original shipment to your buyer.
So if your buyer shipped the item back to you and it gets stuck or worse lost during transit, it is your responsibility and the buyer should still receive a refund. I know that isn't what you want to hear, but it is how it works.
Don't allow this to have Ebay step on on the claim and that will happen if you don't take care of this in the next day or so. If Ebay steps in, you will be forced to refund, get a Defect on your Dashboard and will not get your FVFs refunded. So it isn't worth it to try and fight it as you will be the only one that gets hurt.
Now to your product. You can likely get that moving back to you. What carrier did you use? Was is USPS? If so, call up the tracking on their website www.usps.com . When you are on the page, there is an option to sign up for email updates every time an entry is made on the tracking. Sign up for that so you get notification if the package starts moving.
Now go to the link below and file for a TRACE. Doing this often gets the package moving within about 48-72 hours.
https://usps.my.site.com/emailus/s/package-inquiry
Good Luck!
fashunu4eeuh
·2 years agoKeep in mind that it is the buyer who defrauded you. Sadly, eBay followed their usual practice in how cases are managed. Your focus on eBay as the culprit sidesteps the initial fact of who wronged you. The scam artist needs to be held accountable.
@skiskilifex giving it to you straight—your replies indicate that the scammer knows more about eBay policy than you do. He used that against you. You will fail in seeking legal satisfaction without an understanding of the rules eBay operates under. In addition, your appeal was filed with the same misunderstanding of policy. I wish you had come here prior to appealing for advice. It should have been a slam dunk for you. But one must have their ducks in a row before appealing.
Good luck with pursuing satisfaction. I hope it gets resolved to your benefit.
gurlcat
·2 years agoCan anyone tell me what is meant by "steelbook"?? Just looks like a DVD to me!
EDIT: Never mind, I looked it up. Wow what a mind-boggling thing -so, we are living in a time where you can watch just about any movie you want instantly and simply with a high-speed internet connection .... also supposedly we are living a tragic time of economic hardship ..... yet there are people who are not only still willing to buy DVD's but ones with stupid fancy cases ..... for $50+ APIECE? SERIOUSLY?!!!
momtoabeautifuldaughter
·2 years agoGood luck with that...LOL
Their terms of use, which you agreed to, greatly limit your options. You need to review them and proceed accordingly.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoI have a couple of questions for @skiskilifex
1. As has been suggested, go to the post office and get documentation of the information on the shipping label to verify whether it was altered and if so, get a letter/document from the p.o. stating that the original shipping label was altered.
2. Although the listing in question doesn't appear to use stock images, many of your listings for steelbooks use stock images.
3. Are you dropshipping from Best Buy? (One of your responses to a feedback blames Best Buy for "incompetence."
4. This statement in your listings violates policy since restocking fees are not allowed: "If any Items are to be found fully functional upon inspection or items returned in the case of buyer's remorse by misrepresenting the condition of the product, will be charged a 20% percent of the product sales price."
5. Why would a seller with "free returns" have this statement in listings? Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to cancel at buyer's request than paying for a return after they receive the item? "No Cancellation will be afforded after an order has been place. Please do NOT place an order if you are not sure because BUYERS REMORSE is NOT an acceptable reason for cancellations."
6. I don't know whether there might be a problem with your own local p.o. since several of your replies to feedbacks refer to a recurrent issue.
7. @skiskilifex - Your replies to feedbacks reflect far worse on you (as a seller) than on the buyer who you allege is the problem. And many of your replies suggest that the buyers respond emotionally. My inference is that you respond emotionally!
itsjustasprain
·2 years agoReally its just retail arbitrage. Neither Best Buy nor Walmart (in another Neg feedback) offer dropshipping services.
aeparts1
·2 years agoI find the OP's replies to their negative feedback to be quite interesting.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoITA! I was typing my post at the time you posted this! GMTA!
gurlcat
·2 years agoGotta say I'm embarrassed by a lot of the replies on this one. The OP was clearly the victim of fraud and some of yall are just immediately making fun of them about the 'court' thing.
But kudos to those offering actual advice.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoI am not surprised at all that the replies on this thread focused on the 'court' thing.
After all, the OP's only question was "Now i am ready to sue eBay to get back my money but what do ya think?"
a_c_green
·2 years agoGranted, there is a lot of shrieking in this Selling group about filing a lawsuit Real Soon Now, after which of course no suit is ever filed, but it would be interesting to know how many parties file against eBay for arbitration, which is something that is available to you as explained in the Terms of Service, and to learn how those cases turned out.
ltldpr
·2 years agoSame. Nothing like hearing from a bunch of condescending bleep holes when you've been scammed with a known scam no doubt.
jameshen1
·2 years agoGuess I missed where you offered any helpful advice on this thread. And where the OP asked for any.
ltldpr
·2 years agoSo that's a green light to be a condescending bleep hole?
evolution49
·2 years agoI am experiencing a similar situation except buyer used his own label but was addressed to a grocery store across the street
doc-holmes
·2 years agoAll I ask is that you please please please keep us updated on the progress of your lawsuit. People Come on here almost daily advising they will sue and for some mysterious reason they never return to tell us about it.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoIf you have the IMEI of the phone report it stolen and have it blacklisted.
https://www.imei.info/news/report-imei-number-lost-or-stolen/
If you do not have the IMEI number you were not qualified to sell a phone online
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoWhat kind of case?
What did the buyer say in the case?
jerseyboymusic
·2 years agoDANG! I'm surprised Ebay is still in business with all these people filing lawsuits!
chariot_badges
·2 years agoI'm curious. Do you plan on doing this in Superior Court? Or Small Claims?
In the TOS it will state where the venue is ... is it at their headquarters in San Jose?
Will you travel there to do it, or will you hire a local attorney in the Bay Area?
Some states have a law forbidding binding arbitration on things that can be settled in small claims court (small disputes). Is your state one of those?
Have you agreed to binding arbitration in the TOS? Who pays for it? How much time do they have to respond to it?
kalyoth
·2 years agoEnjoy your cancelled lawsuit as it's transferred to binding arbitration in CA. Should look at the user policy more closely.
As to your situation - can go one of two ways 1) did the buyer use a prepaid return label? If yes, its generated off your address on file & you have no leg to stand on. 2) did they handwrite it & pay the return postage?
ittybitnot
·2 years agoAs to your situation - can go one of two ways 1) did the buyer use a prepaid return label? If yes, its generated off your address on file & you have no leg to stand on.
@kalyoth
You left out the part that a crook can use a prepaid return label issued by eBay, and alter the address to anything they want. It is a simple matter to change the PDF. The label still retains the original tracking number, but the carrier delivers it to the address (changed to an empty lot). It is done all the time.
eBay knows this happens. They have been presented on numerous occasions photos of the altered label provided to victims of this return scam by USPS. eBay controls the money, they control the outcome. Until they the day they don't.
cardxcraft
·2 years agomethod to appeal altered return label scam.
@mudshark61369 method below
You have been the victim of a fake tracking scam, the seller sends something, an envelope or small box with tracking to a different address, and uses the Delivered scan to win an Item Not Received (INR) dispute. eBay's automated INR system is not allowed access to anything but the scan information, due to shipping company's privacy policies. When you file a dispute and lose in the message there should be an appeal button. You have 30 days from losing the dispute to appeal, but in order to win you have to do some leg work.
You will have to go to your P.O. or a local UPS-FedEx store. You need to bring a copy of your order details page which shows your address and the tracking number with you. If you bought using a phone or tablet, you can bring that to show the clerk the order details.
You want to ask the clerk to check the label address against yours, and also to check the Package type/size weight info to see if was is appropriate for what you should have received. If the info does not match up, you ask the clerk to write a note on Company stationary saying in general that the shipping label's address was not yours, and if applicable that the package type/size/weight was not right for what you should have received. In your case have them also say the name on the address wasn't yours either. Do not ask for specific address or package info, they cannot give it out. Have the clerk sign and date the note.
Once you have the note, you can appeal the dispute ruling, or contact ebay through their Facebook or Twitter social media pages. (links below) You can write out what happened and what you found out, and add a CLEAR photo or a scan of the note to an appeal or message. If you go the social media route which is recommended, because the reps know about the fake tracking scams you will need to have the seller's username and the ebay item number. At the end of your message give them your real and ebay username.
https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness
https://twitter.com/askebay
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years ago@cardxcraft
ebay is no longer at that address on facebook
cardxcraft
·2 years agoThanks for the update.
cardxcraft
·2 years agoYou should appeal, but, before you do that, I'm going to post some information for you. It's a saved copy and paste on how to appeal the altered label scam. The buyer most likely altered the return label. You'll know when you investigate this further. I'll post instructions in a minute.
skiskilifex
OP2 years agoI already did that appeal process and they ruled in favor of the buyer saying that they staying with the outcome because the buyer proof of delivery. THat shows how much a clown show is the appeal process. Plus after i got my appeal outcome, ebay CS immediately sent me a message explaining why they ruled in the buyer favor. That never happened to me before. Usually eBay will give you the outcome and thats it
wastingtime101
·2 years agoHey @skiskilifex . Definitely sounds like a fraud situation, but here are some questions:
1. When you review your return address on this page, does it include the house/street/unit number?
https://accountsettings.ebay.com/uas/addresses
2. If the answer to that is no, then this was a mess up on your end. If the answer to that is yes, then that means the buyer doctored the return label and you should be filing fraud reports with USPS, IC3 and the police before appealing with eBay.
3. If the return address on your account does have the house/street/unit number, I would go to your local post office with a copy of the tracking and ask them to verify the address on the label. If it's missing a unit number on their end then you should ask for a print out and submit it to eBay along with a screenshot of your complete address on the return address page as evidence of fraud. (Note: if your return address is truly missing the number on eBay, CS will be able to see if you change it after the fact.)
ittybitnot
·2 years agoIf the answer to that is yes, then that means the buyer doctored the return label and you should be filing fraud reports with USPS, IC3 and the police before appealing with eBay.
@wastingtime101
That is part of the latest "improvement" some scammers have found to show a "return"....i.e. changing the address on an eBay label, sending it to an empty lot. It is much less expensive than the OLD way of actually purchasing a cheap trinket on the net or buying their own label for the local gas station or library in the seller's Zip Code. eBay even figures it is the SELLER's fault for not providing the correct return address, so shipping to an empty lot is even better. I am sure I would get my mail in this community even if my house number was omitted (small town LOL).
This is a popular technique most often used by non-US buyers that use a Freight Forwarder. That is why I asked the OP upthread where they shipped this in the first place. There can be redress found on eBay, but not through regular Customer Service. Buyers who are not in the US anyway are not really deterred by US law enforcement reports.
I am concerned now that eBay seems to have a "new" program where the buyer basically only needs to show "proof of shipping" before they can get a refund, and the product need never show "delivered" at all before the seller is forced to refund.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoYeah, it's not so new @ittybitnot , but it's definitely an active method of fraud. Still, since the eBay appeal response specifically said the seller's return address was wrong and a unit number was missing, that does warrant asking the seller to double-check their return address in the system.
If their address is correct in the system then it's likely not just a missing unit number, but rather a different address entirely (same zip code scam) in which case the seller needs evidence printed out by the carrier on their letterhead to appeal with eBay.
ittybitnot
·2 years agosince the eBay appeal response specifically said the seller's return address was wrong and a unit number was missing, that does warrant asking the seller to double-check their return address in the system.
@wastingtime101
Indeed it warrants "checking", but having NEVER seen that 'denial' response from eBay EVER in the last 25 years, I find the whole idea suspect when the whole process originally outlined by the OP is the same step by step scenario repeated here all the time. I have been a proud tin foil hat wearer for a couple of decades now, and it has served me well. LOL
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoPrint out the User Agreement and bring it to your lawyer. Any advice encouraging a lawsuit without reading the user agreement is unlikely to be valid.
My interpretation (I am not a lawyer) is if the item qualifies for Small Claims Court in Utah, you can file there. If it does not, you will need to go to arbitration.
stephenmorgan
·2 years agoInstead of a Court Hearing why not request an Arbitration Hearing? This is something you could do on your own without an attorney or you can hire an attorney if you wish.
With an Arbitration Hearing eBay will pay your cost of the Hearing as long as your case is not determined to be frivolous by the Arbitrator.
Your first step is to File a "Notice of Dispute" to eBay. If you can demonstrate that eBay made the wrong decision, I am sure eBay will resolve the matter in your favor without having a Hearing. If the matter is not resolved in your favor and you disagree with the decision, then proceed with the hearing.
https://p.ebaystatic.com/aw/help/legal/Notice_of_Dispute.pdf
skiskilifex
OP2 years agoThis sound very reasonable and best suggestion i got, thank you
1786davycrockett
·2 years ago@skiskilifex
"Now i am ready to sue eBay to get back my money but what do ya think??? "
I think that your legal costs to sue eBay will far exceed the value of a Oneplus 12 phone.
Is your lawyer planning to work pro bono?
iamalwaysright
·2 years agoI’m in favor of him too.
ckimodog
·2 years ago@iamalwaysright
And don't forget this guy...
skiskilifex
OP2 years agoSo what your suggestion, that take the loss and go about my business????
ckimodog
·2 years ago@1786davycrockett
Wrote:
Is your lawyer planning to work pro bono?
I can't stop laughing at this reply! lol Thank you 😆🤣😂.
ittybitnot
·2 years ago@skiskilifex
To what city/state did you originally ship this phone? Was the address that of a freight forwarder?
luckythewinner
·2 years agoBefore I can determine whether eBay screwed up, I need to know whether you responded promptly to the INAD, accepted the INAD, and sent a return shipping label to the buyer at your expense that had the correct address on it.
Because if you did not, then the buyer is not obligated to return the phone to you.
skiskilifex
OP2 years agoI give free return so as soon a the buyer put in a INAD, it was automatically accepted and he was given a label. Once again, the address on teh label is correct. i currently have a buyer return an steelbook because he ordered the wrong one. I guarantee in a couple of days, that steelbook will be delivered to my house without an issue. The buyer did something to that shipping label, probably scratched out one of the numbers
toysaver
·2 years agoIf you bought the label I believe you can pay to intercept it and get it back. Also, why the heck didn't you call your local PO????
skiskilifex
OP2 years agoI already went to the post office and tried to intercept the package, the Post office said they cant do nothing about the package being returned
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoWhat do I think, there won't be any lawsuit.
Is your return address right?
Did the shipping label have the correct address or did the buyer change it?
If buyer changed it, did you get a letter from USPS stating that the label had been changed and was not addressed to you?
skiskilifex
OP2 years agoToday, someone ask to return a steelbook because he got the wrong one. That steelbook is currently on the way and i bet you any amount of money that the steelbook will arrive to my house in a couple of days without an issue.
fashunu4eeuh
·2 years agoIf you are considering a lawsuit, which is your right, just make sure to review the section of the eBay User Agreement entitled Legal Disputes as well as the Money Back Guarantee policy. Good luck.
iamalwaysright
·2 years agoBut how did eBay mess up according to what your title says? It sounds to me the issue was the return postage label and why it had numbers missing. It can be caused by either 1) you, who provided an incomplete return address, 2) the buyer who somehow altered the return label postage enough and still be accepted by USPS, or 3) USPS who somehow read the postage wrong or made some sort of error. Either choice involves no control from eBay. They did everything they were supposed to. And yes, return to sender is considered delivery on these. That’s happened to me before a few times and I just call eBay to appeal the decision. eBay ends up awarding me the appeal or puts a halt to the buyer refund before it’s issued out thus giving more time for us to sort out the issue.
skiskilifex
OP2 years agoEbay definitely take some blame here because they give the buyer an refund before getting confirmation that the item was delivered. Ebay CS also lied on the appeal reason for stay with the original outcome. Remember CS stated that the buyer proved that the item return was delivered when that clearly was not the case. My address is corrent and i checked my setting to make sure that it was correct.
robbie31415
·2 years agoSeems like eBay followed the policy.
Since it was a INAD claim any issues with return delivery are the sellers issue. Once it's RTS that's considered delivery.
Good luck with your lawsuit though.
I'd be curious to know the outcome.
skiskilifex
OP2 years agothe INAD claim is clearly bogus and if ebay gave the buyer a refund before getting comfirmation from the post office then that it is on them. Let the court decide who is in the right
iamalwaysright
·2 years agoHow do you know it’s bogus when you didn’t even receive the item back yet? So if it is bogus, you’re saying that both the buyer and eBay lied to you? Interesting.
skiskilifex
OP2 years agoI know the claim is bogus because like i explained, the buyer never put an actual reason on what was wrong with the phone for him to return it. On top of that, the buyer sent one picture that was an all black screen that shown nothing.
isaiah53-57
·2 years ago"Buyers are Liars" and ebay CS lies every time they open their mouth's(in my opinion) - What would be so hard to believe about either of these happening?
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoWhen the PO sent the package back, that's the same as it being delivered and that's the confirmation they needed.
skiskilifex
OP2 years agoLets agree to disagree and let the judge decide that. So if you in my shoe, you should just take this loss and go about your life, right???
monster-deals
·2 years agoThere are probably 50 posters in here that can tell you with 100% accuracy how far that lawsuit will go