eBay, How can I protect myself from freight forwarding buyers?
Once again, a freight forward buyer claims damage but can't return the item after using a U.S. ship-to address to have the item shipped overseas. These buyers are not even covered under eBay's money-back guarantee, but I am at the mercy of selling to them and then having them claim damage when there was no damage during picture taking or before shipping. If the item is purchased and I cancel the sale, the FF buyer can leave negative. If I ship the item and they claim damage, I can't help them even though I offer free 30-day returns. This problem ONLY exists with these freight forward buyers and eBay refuses to support top-rated sellers from the negative feedback abuse. I even state in my listing that if you are an overseas buyer DO NOT PURCHASE unless you can return the item. eBay won't even support that statement and allows the abuse to continue
blueapples_22
·2 years agoThis has happened to me a few times. Accept the return and provide a shipping label. You will never hear from them again, because they can't send you the item.
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoThey have to open a return request before I can send a label. They don't open a return request because they know they're responsible for shipping costs back to the U.S. It's the reason I have a disclaimer on all my auctions that states: if you are outside the U.S., do not purchase unless you can return if not satisfied. Of course, they don't bother to read.
monster-deals
·2 years agoYour protection is the buyer has opted themselves out of the MBG
zamo-zuan
·2 years agoOnly if they admit it. It used to be enough that their address could be confirmed. Now they have to explicitly admit it.
onefootflipper
·2 years agoThe forwarders are not going to return the items for them, so qualifying for the MBG is academic at best. Most of the time the return window is closed before the customer getting the forwarded order even gets the item, as they usually build up many purchases that are then shipped over in the slowest and cheapest method possible.
monster-deals
·2 years agoNo they have seemingly changed that policy, thank the maker.
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoWell you would think so, but eBay still allows them to leave negative feedback for something that is 100% out of my control once the FF handles the package and delivers it.
zamo-zuan
·2 years agoYou can't.
The best you could do is just follow eBay policy and provide a label to the address you shipped to. If you're lucky, they will admit or expose the fact that they are using a forwarder. At which point you could inform them that doing so violates their eBay MBG, and that based on eBay policy you can provide a label only to the address on file.
At least if they admit the truth, you will be protected from any further issues.
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoI can't provide a label if they don't open a return and they won't open a return because they know they have to pay the return back to the U.S.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·2 years agoI believe there is also the problem of watchers, you can send an offer then after the fact you find out there are out of country and as a seller you'd no idea.
gator08041971
·2 years agoNow that's true. You bring up a good point. I would be unable to block those if I wanted to. And that would be unfortunate for me, especially if they don't pay.
However, I think they would be a bit more likely to pay, if you have buy it now set to require payment vs auctions.
Ugh. Ebay should set the country requirement to require both the buyer's physical address and their mailing address to be in the same country. If both aren't in the same country, tough cookies. Or allow a seller to make an exception on request, rather than blindly let anyone bid as long as they have a forwarder.
Again, not knocking the forwarding thing itself, as I know there are good reasons for it, but as usual, there are bad apples everywhere.
onefootflipper
·2 years agoIt isn't as common as it used to be, but some freight forward customers claim that every item they receive is damaged because some sellers will give them their money back. They are often making these claims before they ever even get the item. Most freight forward customers build up a bunch of purchases that all get consolidated into one package, they aren't having the packages forwarded one at a time.
My response to such a customer would be. "Was delivered undamaged to your agent, any claim you have is with them."
If they actually file a return, provide your own label, buy it through pirateship and make sure it is from the forwarder to you. Watch the label carefully so you can cancel it later as it will never be used.
gator08041971
·2 years agoMy solution. I just don't do international sales at all. Maybe that's a head-in-the-sand approach, but no one said I had to sell to countries outside the US either.
Even though I block all those countries, there are still buyers (especially from South America) that keep trying. And none of them usually pay when they win, and then I have to block, and move on. 98% of my block list are all from other countries, because they can't read. I will block any bidders that show they are from a country other than the U.S.
Sometimes one or two sneak through and still get an item and I still ship as long as its a US address, but I haven't had to do this for awhile now, though they keep trying.
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoYou can't block these buyers that use a U.S. freight forward service. It's a U.S. shipping address.
gator08041971
·2 years agoYes I most certainly can. But only after they attempt to bid. I did one today. I have this described in my listings that bidders that are shown to be from a country other than the US may get blocked.
My auto block settings catches a lot of them too. But those are only going to be ones that have an address outside the US, or they have too many non-payment strikes, or meet other undesirable criteria.
But I block them because most of them never pay when they win. And I don't have time for that non-sense. I already have relisted an item now 3 times in the past 3 weeks due to this very scenario. You can see the first two in my sold listings.
sumsum70
·2 years agoJust keep the negative and the buyer's money if they won't send it back. The way eBay has feedback all mixed up now, that neg isn't even showing on page 1 unless you change the new default sort.
If it were me, I'd rather have the money and a negative than not the money and a broken item returned.
And buyers that use forwarders probably pay less and get their stuff faster than EIS.
reallynicestamps
·2 years agoThey are still covered by parts of the MBG, specifically the Not As Described.
You are still allowed to demand return before refund, even if you have a No Returns policy.
The part you have missed is that you send a Return Shipping Label for the address you shipped to, the forwarder.
It's up to the customer to get the unwanted purchase back to the forwarder and to persuade/pay them to use the label you have supplied.
A convo with @tyler@ebay a couple of years ago:
Now -- if the GSP is not involved, but the buyer uses a freight forwarder, does the seller provide Return Shipping from the forwarding address or from the buyer's address?
Oooh this is a good clarification question @femmefan1946! A seller is only required to provide return shipping from the buyer's input address at time of checkout - that goes for any return where a seller provides shipping ('free' returns, etc).
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/All-Items-Are-Free/m-p/31966203#M1772511
Message #20 from tyler
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoThe problem is, that they don't open a return because the cost to return to the U.S. is too expensive. The free return only covers from their ship to address (freight forward) back to me. eBay won't remove the negative feedback. Yet, if they were in the U.S. or used eBay international shipping, they are covered. It's a HUGE gap that eBay has no interest in solving.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoIf they can't return the item to the US, that's their problem.
Accept the return and provide a shipping label, then leave it up to the buyer.
stephenmorgan
·2 years agoDo you know if it is true that when a Return Label is issued through eBay the cost of the Label is not charged unless the label is actually used?
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoNo, you are not charged for it unless the label has been used.
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoThe problem is, that they don't open a return because the cost to return to the U.S. is too expensive. The free return only covers from their ship to address (freight forward) back to me. eBay won't remove the negative feedback. Yet, if they were in the U.S. or used eBay international shipping, they are covered. It's a HUGE gap that eBay has no interest in solving.
fashunu4eeuh
·2 years agoHad a couple of thoughts while trying to understand the sequence of events.
If the buyer opens a NAD case, one has only to quote the written policy in response. Your case notes would state that the buyer is ineligible for the MBG as it does not cover forwarded material.
But as stated, if the buyer is not opening a return case, then what injurious actions were taken that you object to? Just the negative feedback?
You are a quite successful long-time seller. A Top Rated Seller. So i say this with respect—you have but one single negative feedback out of a veritable ocean of 400+ green positives. No future buyer will give that negative review a second look, nor give it any credence.
As far as i can tell, you have not been dealt a cunning blow, or received an injury to your account. Feedback has no bearing on a seller’s metrics. All in all, this matter is a small one, with no teeth. In the grand scheme of things, it does not appear worthy of your valuable attention.
“…my 30-day return won't help him [the buyer] because he lied and stated his shipping address is in Deleware.â€
A final word: Using a freight forwarder is not considered by eBay to be an effort to mislead, or lie, about the buyer’s mailing address. Buyers often have multiple mailing addresses different than their international home base. That is allowed. Many shoppers have gifts sent directly to loved ones.
Absolutely nothing nefarious going on.
Perhaps eBay has no interest in correcting such an issue because they do not consider it to be a problem.
Wish you much continued success.
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoI wonder why eBay will not cover freight forward buyers with money-back guarantee?
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210#section10
marnotom!
·2 years agoHow can the buyer be lying about their shipping address being in Delaware? That’s where the item was shipped, no? Ergo, it’s the shipping address.
As far as eBay is concerned, eBay International Shipping fills a gap when it comes to the handling of international returns. Was this sale you’re on about handled under a different ID? I don’t see any negative feedback left for you and your lone neutral feedback seems to be unrelated to the use of a freight forwarder.
mistyelectronics
·2 years agoTheir problem except buyers who use freight forwarders are far more likely to leave a negative or ask for a partial return because theres no way that they can return it due to the expense of shipping and losing whatever they paid in customs fees
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoOr the scammers will use the seller's return label and change it and send a cheap doodad from Temu or somewhere and all ebay sees is 'something' was returned.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoI always take a photo(s) of package all wrapped up and send it in an email...item is in the mail and it might take longer to get to them. I also use the words "freight forward" as I want them to know I know how it is being shipped. I also make it a point that I tell them I understand it is going from USA to their country. You can usually see Buyer ID country.
Here's what has happened to me...item does not get scanned as "delivered" in Florida or Delaware...it becomes an open scan forever....lucky for me thus far all my "freight forward" buyers were honest.
A buyer can claim item not received if it is not scanned as "delivered" in Florida or Delaware or whatever state.
And I never leave feedback first for something going "freight forward". Buyer leaves it first.
I do google some addresses of some buyers to see if item is going freight forward and well as checking their feedback. Hope this helps in the future.
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoYou're not getting the "delivered: scan because that's USPS. UPS and FEDEX will always show delivered.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoSo, are you saying USPS doesn't scan items but this item you mailed WAS "freight forward" was UPS or FedEx?
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoUSPS has a message on their site regarding items delivered to a third party for shipping. They scan them but won't declare delivered (even though they are because the item has not reached its final destination. However, eBay (maybe not all CS) is aware that USPS does this. IU had a case closed in my favor by an overseas buyer who claimed that the item didn't arrive, when in fact its destination was confirmed at his freight forward company. My item was shipped UPS. My buyer claimed damaged. I'm covered with UPS insurance, but once that freight forward company gets it, no one is covered and I'm left vulnerable to negative feedback if it arrives damaged.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoUSPS has a message on their site regarding items delivered to a third party for shipping. They scan them but won't declare delivered (even though they are because the item has not reached its final destination.
Do you have a link to that, because how would USPS know that? THEIR job is to deliver it to the address on the label. Period.
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoEnter one of those tracking numbers into the USPS delivery confirmation site. It will explain it once you enter the info.
inhawaii
·2 years agoWith all due respect, what do you care what happens to your item once it reaches it's US destination?
And why can't a freight forward return an item? Sure they can.
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoI have no problem with it reaching its U.S. destination, but from there, it forwards to Guatemala. On the way, it gets damaged, the buyer in Guatemala won't return it because he won't pay the price and my 30-day return won't help him because he lied and stated his shipping address is in Deleware. So, he leaves negative feedback and eBay won't remove it even though it is 100% out of my control.
inhawaii
·2 years agoSo basically...
Freight forwarder sale: You don't have to worry about returns but you might get a negative feedback.
Non-freight forwarder sale: You do have to worry about returns and you can still get a negative feedback.
chasearooauctions
OP2 years agoNo.
Freight forwarder sale: You don't have to worry about returns but you might get negative feedback.
Non-freight forwarder sale: I welcome returns and am protected from negative feedback as a top-rated seller and free 30-day returns.
my-rc-stuff
·2 years agoI had a foul mouth buyer go balastic when he filed a not received claim against me, and later closed it on his own, without a word, as USPS has been delayed 4-6 days here inside FL. So I thought all was well, delivery confirmation never showing delivered but he evidently got the item. A couple weeks go by and for the first time in 8 years, the low life gives me a negative rating. EBay doesn't care I shipped 1,000 items without incident or disappointment, so now I'm a 98.9% rated seller. Ebay , you suck.
brightlightbookseller
·2 years agoThat's...not an eBay issue, unless the feedback somehow violated policy, which looking at it, it didn't. If you accused them of doing something wrong by shipping through a freight forwarder (which is a totally legitimate way of ordering items), then I can understand the feedback.
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoYou can't.
Do NOT cancel- more go good than bad; by far
By the way, taking pictures does nothing.
slippinjimmy
·2 years agoAccept the return and provide a label. The label would be from the Forwarders address so it's up to the buyer to get the item back to the forwarder or pay for the return shipping from their actual location.
At least 9 times out of 10 that will be the last you will hear about it.