eBay disput process
Has anyone SUCCESSFULLY navigated the eBay dispute process?
I had a buyer falsely claim the "item not as shown or described in the listing." eBay subsequently refunded him but also found me "not at fault." How the buyer can be right (and refunded) without the seller being at fault is beyond me; they CAN'T both be true. Therefore, the buyer fraudulently obtained a refund from eBay. He was sent absolutely every single item in the listing (and I have a small claim court date against him in which he'll prove it for me).
On top of that, the buyer decided he wasn't going to return the item in question, which is also clearly against eBay's policy.
And FINALLY, he left a blatantly false and defamatory review which eBay won't remove "because they don't override a buyer's OPINION," however false. So I filed a notice of dispute on March 5th.
It's now April 25th and after repeated attempts, I can't even get eBay to acknowledge they received my dispute. The single reply I got from them was on March 25th and it read:
"Good afternoon,
The dispute period is 45 days.
Thank you,
Katie"
That's it.
Anyone else have any experience with them? How can I get their attention?
kalyoth
·4 months agoHope you won't feel bad when they dismiss your court case as having no jurisdiction. You are bound by the ebay terms of service for all transactions occurring upon it. The only way you could move beyond it, is with a criminal finding, which won't occur without your filing police reports & their desire to investigate, recommend to a prosecutor etc.
19. Legal Disputes
pickapaper
·4 months agoI have only personally been involved in one small claims court case; for our business, we took a person to SC court. The whole procedure was very frustrating and aggravating. They will not spend a bunch of time on these small cases so basically, it all boiled down to each side was allowed to present their side to the case, be it truth or lies, and then the judge deciding which side was acting by law. In our case, we won, she lost.
I haven't seen an episode of Judge Judy in years. Never cared for it. But...I actually would like to be an observer in @riccart_24 's small claims court case. I think it would be very interesting and I would love to know the outcome.
luckythewinner
·4 months agoJudge Judy would never take the case.
Judge Judy: "What happened?"
riccard_24: "The buyer lied about a return and got refunded."
Judge Judy: "How much money did you lose?"
riccard_24: "Nothing, because eBay took the hit."
Judge Judy: "So you want the buyer to give you the money they actually owe to eBay?"
riccard_24: "Umm .. I guess so."
Judge Judy: "No."
riccart_24
OP4 months agoNeither funny nor close to the facts. But clowns gotta perform.
pickapaper
·4 months agoProbably pretty correct. But I also think the OP is concerned that the "blatantly false and defamatory review", which occurred over six months ago would cause buyers to lose interest in his items. However, he only has five items currently listed and has sold seven items, so not a very good basis for determining whether his business has been hurt.
inhawaii
·4 months agoriccart_24
OP4 months ago"They will not spend a bunch of time on these small cases"
That's precisely what Small Claims courts are designed for. And yes, I'll be happy to share the outcome, win or lose. For a $10 filing fee and a 20 minute drive to the court, it's well worth it.
grann-4629
·4 months agoI don't think they use Judges in small Court things like this ... more like a simple arbitrator.
pickapaper
·4 months agoWith my one personal SCC experience, we started out with an arbitrator but he wasn't able to come to a decision so we had to go before a judge, who did make the final decision. The party we sued lost and had to pay us plus they had to pay all court costs.
luckythewinner
·4 months agothe buyer fraudulently obtained a refund from eBay
I have a small claim court date against him in which he'll prove it for me
If you did not have to refund, you are not out any money. In most small claims, you can only sue for actual damages, not punitive ones.
So if you did not jhave to refund, what is the basis for your claim and in what amount?
pickapaper
·4 months agoWe don't know when this transaction happened but according to the feedback, it was in "the last six months". Why are you just bringing it up now? eBay is right; you only have a limited amount of time to dispute things and you are way over that amount of time.
It sounds like you are not familiar with eBay's Money Back Guarantee. You really should familiarize yourself with how it works if you are going to sell on eBay as there are some really important things you should know, especially since you are selling some pricy items. This time, you dodged a bullet and didn't have to refund the buyer out of your money but next time, you may not be so lucky.
You said you have a small claims court date scheduled to prove the buyer is wrong. Are you so adamant about proving you are right and he is wrong that you are willing to spend the time and money to take him to small claims court, especially if he is in another state? I hope you will come back here afterward and let us know how it turns out. Many of us would like to know as a future reference point.
grann-4629
·4 months agoThis is how lawyers get rich ... they get paid, win or lose. OTOH, the Courts have nothing else to do so I'm sure their staff will appreciate the work. If the OP wins s/he can brag to friends that s/he only spent 10 Grand to get a feedback removed on eBay.
Oh oh, here come the lawyers ...🥳
riccart_24
OP4 months ago"This is how lawyers get rich ... they get paid, win or lose."
Not sure where you get your information, but Small Claims court doesn't involve lawyers unless someone wants to bring one to represent them. For a $10 filing fee and a 20 minute drive to the courthouse, I get to make my case.
"OTOH, the Courts have nothing else to do so "
Also uninformed. SC courts are designed specifically for these types of cases.
Keep your day job.
pickapaper
·4 months ago@riccart_24wrote: "For a $10 filing fee and a 20 minute drive to the courthouse, I get to make my case."
Not trying to be argumentative, but have you done this before? I believe filing fees are more than $10 in all states and there could be other fees to pay, especially if you lose. You didn't say if the buyer is in the same state as you; if he is, great. But if he lives in another state, you have to file in the state where he lives.
grann-4629
·4 months agoOP ... you are having a problem either with eBay or someone else. This is a very common thing on this forum and you will usually get some help to resolve the problem, or at least a little empathy if the problem can't be solved.
But, as soon as you mentioned that you are bringing in the law to help you with a very nothing issue (somebody said said something mean to you), you lose credibility with many folks here who are trying to help.
As pointed out here, you don't have to worry about people avoiding your stuff because of a bad feedback ... it's not like you are a power seller who stands to lose income - you really don't have a lot to sell.
If you do make it to Judge Judy, don't tell her you have a Pit Bull, and remember, please:
STICKS & STONES ...
grann-4629
·4 months agoHope the buyer doesn't live in China ...
inhawaii
·4 months agoIf you take the buyer to small claims court, how do you intend to PROOVE the the piece he is claiming was missing was not missing?
kensgiftshop
·4 months ago@riccart_24
Did Ebay refund the buyer or did they take the funds from you to refund?
riccart_24
OP4 months agoThey refunded the buyer themselves and let me keep what I had been paid. I know that may sound like I'm being greedy, but I'm not. The main reason I'm taking him to Small Claims court is that if I can get a favorable judgement, I'm hoping I can use that as weight to get eBay to remove his derogatory review. I would just donate anything he pays me to charity.
mtgraves7984
·4 months ago@riccart_24
Oh, my. No, I always understood that eBay made you whole... I never thought of it being greed. Admittedly, the verbiage "Therefore, the buyer fraudulently obtained a refund from eBay" (in your OP) further confused me, relevant to your small claims court text, too, but I digress...
You mean that you're suffering all this frustration over a negative feedback removal? If so, I'd offer that negs drop off after one calendar year... hey, it only feels like an eternity. Save your time and money and mind. Breathe and hang in there... 🙌
riccart_24
OP4 months agoI appreciate the support, but there's no frustration at all over this. It's simply a matter of doing the right thing. eBay is notoriously biased in favor of the buyers; I know I'm not telling anyone here something they don't already know. But if they (eBay) are going to hold Sellers to their User Agreement, then I think it's only fair to hold eBay to it as well. That was the reason for me to file a dispute with them.
As for the Small Claims case, it's no trouble at all. The buyer scammed the system and -- so far -- has gotten away with it. He got the item he wanted and didn't have to pay for it. Someone asked what MY financial impact has been, and I think that's a fair question. But in addition to the lost $$ from reselling an item that's rightfully mine, there's always the distinct possibility that the blatantly false review may cause someone who would otherwise be a bidder to reduce his/her interest. How do you put a price on bad press?
So I don't look at it as "suffering all this frustration" at all. In fact, doing what's right feels pretty satisfying.
grann-4629
·4 months agoIn fact, doing what's right feels pretty satisfying.
That still remains to be seen. Hope you get Judge Judy ... I'd like to watch as a learning experience. Best of luck with this.
iamalwaysright
·4 months agoI was actually thinking the same thing before I saw your post. Man, I would love to see this in an episode of Judge Judy.
dryophelia
·4 months ago@riccart_24 has no loss, eBay is the one who ‘lost’ in this transaction.
What on earth would you claim as your damages?
riccart_24
OP4 months agoFirst and foremost is the resale value of the item in question. Had it been returned, I could/would have resold it. I was deprived of that; thus financial harm was done. Secondly, but admittedly harder to prove, is the potential for loss (or diminished) sales due to the baseless review.
But beyond that, the buyer breached a legitimate contract by not fulfilling his end of the agreement. I think everyone responding here is responding from eBay's perspective. What eBay did (refunded the buyer) is a business decision, not a legal one. I'm pursuing this as a legal matter.
r_lresale
·4 months agoFirst and foremost is the resale value of the item in question. Had it been returned, I could/would have resold it. I was deprived of that; thus financial harm was done.
You have no financial harm here. You did not and was not required to refund the buyer , thus suffering no financial harm from the transaction. As such, you are not legally (or ehtically) entitled to the return of the product or resale value of the product as no breech of contract occured and you both were made "whole". In fact if you retained the money AND got the item back and resold it the buyer WOULD have a legally binding case against you.
Secondly, but admittedly harder to prove, is the potential for loss (or diminished) sales due to the baseless review.
Yes that argument would be very hard to prove since before this sale you averaged 1.33 sales a month and since said sale you have sold 3 items this month alone bringing your average sales up to 1.5 sales a month which does not show a loss of income.
albertabrightalberta
·4 months agoWhere is the financial harm to you? You were allowed to keep the money so there's no loss.
Had he returned the item, you would have had to issue the refund. THEN you could have resold it.
But again, you have the money, no need to resell and no loss.
The buyer didn't breach any agreement. He bought, paid for and received the item.
He wasn't happy with it but chose not to return it. That was his choice but there's no breach of contract.
You WILL lose the case should you take him to court because you don't have a loss. You kept the money and don't have a case.
kensgiftshop
·4 months agoIf you wanted it back, you should have accepted the return and provided a shipping label.
Once Ebay gets involved, they favor the buyer and you're lucky they covered the refund, so you're not out anything.
There isn't any legal matter.
luckythewinner
·4 months agoYou got your money.
The financial loss was eBay's, not yours.
You have no standing to sue on eBay's behalf.
grann-4629
·4 months ago@riccart_24 with all due respect to you and your issue with eBay, you will have to prove that you were ripped off, unless the law no longer states innocent until proven guilty.
How are you going to prove your case beyond any reasonable doubt?
ETA: As others here can tell you (!), I am not a card-carrying eBay fan. They will also tell you that I am not a fan of feedback precisely for the grief it is causing. But a legal matter? Really?
inhawaii
·4 months agoAnswer: He's not.
riccart_24
OP4 months ago"But a legal matter? Really?"
Anyone who's taken the time to read the User Agreement knows that bidding on dBay invokes a legally binding contract. How eBay treats the case is irrelevant, as they have no legal basis in the the "deal." Anything they do to "resolve" a case is strictly a business decision on their part, and has no bearing on the legality of the contract between seller and buyer.
So a legal matter? Yes, absolutely.
grann-4629
·4 months agoWhat on earth would you claim as your damages?
I'm guessing the OP is going after the other party for defamation. I think, with this type of claim at least, defamation isn't worth a hill of beans and at the most, eBay may have to remove the feedback if the OP can prove that their part of the contract was kept. Next thing the OP will hear after the verdict from the the Judge will be: "Please pay the lady at the back for Court costs. Thank you."
ed8108
·4 months agoIs there financial harm you suffered for small claims court to review & address ?
riccart_24
OP4 months agoContract law. He filed a false claim to obtain a refund, then refused to return the item.
I fulfilled my part of the contract (and yes, it IS a contract), he didn't.
dhbookds
·4 months agoeBay subsequently refunded him but also found me "not at fault."
I think that means they accepted your proof as to not being at fault and gave the buyer a courtesy refund out of their pocket.
You seem to want them to "blame" the buyer, which they won't do unless they have enough proof of more than one instance and then they will boot him.
On the neg.......did you appeal it?
mtgraves7984
·4 months agoOn the neg.......did you appeal it?
@dhbookds
Wowzer. Fingers crossed for @riccart_24 because hopefully that'll make the reply (to it) go away, too.
riccart_24
OP4 months agoYes, I appealed the review. eBay said they aren't in a position to overrule the opinion of the buyer.
caldreamer
·4 months agoDid EBAY pay refund to this customer or did they take YOUR MONEY?
EBAY occasionally tries to appease both Buyer and Seller. I had a case recently where customer returned "old dirty laundry". I filed a case against the Buyer for returning "different item". EBAY refunded the customer "out of their pocket".
EBAY told me I will "keep my money" from this sale as EBAY personally "refunded this customer". EBAY will sometimes do that if there is no way to prove who is right and who is wrong.
grann-4629
·4 months agoEBAY will sometimes do that if there is no way to prove who is right and who is wrong.
There is never a way to prove this with eBay, so they should refund in every case.
inhawaii
·4 months agoThe buyer filed a "not as described" dispute.
You fought it.
You lost.
The buyer was refunded and no longer needs to return the item(s).
This is common.
In the future, don't fight it, just accept the return.
The buyer said it was not as described, you said it was.
Your word vs. the buyer's word.
In a he said/she said situation ebay will always side with the buyer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To answer your question, no, I have not heard of anyone winning a dispute like this.
18704d
·4 months agoInhawaii is right. Seller's word vs buyer's word.
Sellers can claim they shipped everything shown in listing photos, even if they didn't ... and buyers can claim their package didn't contain exactly what the listing claimed, even if they did.
Generally speaking.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoHowever, if that buyers opens an NAD case, that seller will be required to refund, regardless of what he states.
And when the buyer makes a bogus claim that the item was NAD, the seller will be required to refund.
riccart_24
OP4 months agoThat's false. eBay refunded the buyer, not me.
grann-4629
·4 months agoSomeone needs to come up with a 50 cent disposable camera that can be placed in a package and that automatically starts when a buyer opens the package, sends a video to the seller, then self-destructs into non-toxic smoke.
This has to be done by a seller as they are the ones most mistreated and unappreciated by eBay. As Sheldon would say: "Is that sarcasm?" hmmmm ... 😎
riccart_24
OP4 months agoThat's inaccurate. I was found "not at fault." And if you check the user agreement, you'll find that when a refund is given, the buyer is obligated to return the item in question.
And yes, eBay WILL always side with the buyer; but that's a business decision, not a legal one. But a judge won't.
jonathanbrightlight
·4 months agoPerhaps you'd care to point out where in the user agreement you believe that is required?
kensgiftshop
·4 months agoEbay refunded the buyer, so the item belongs to Ebay.
If they want to let the buyer keep it, they can.
I'd love to be in that court room.
Not sure why you would go to court, you kept your payment.
riccart_24
OP4 months agoThat's false. Apparently, you haven't read the User Agreement.
2.0 About eBay
"...eBay is not a party to contracts for sale between third-party sellers and buyers..."
8.0 Purchase Conditions
"...We do not transfer legal ownership of items from the seller to you (the Buyer);..."