eBay Customer Service Refusal to follow Official Policy
Summary: brousjerem expressed frustration with eBay Customer Service, claiming that their listings of comics containing non-sexual nudity, which adhere to eBay's Adult Items Policy, are repeatedly removed by customer service representatives citing incorrect policy reasons. eoma689485 suggested the issue might be due to eBay’s AI system scanning for keywords, but brousjerem insisted it was human error. The conversation evolved into a debate about eBay's policies, its discretion, and the interpretation of legal responsibilities involving copyrighted materials. Some participants advised seeking legal counsel, while others expressed skepticism about resolving the issue through eBay's platform."} 🚩💻📚
eBay Customer Service is repeatedly refusing to follow the Adult items policy.
I resell comics containing non-sexual nudity only and no nudity is shown in the listing. Per eBay’s own policy listed at: https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/adult-items-policy?id=4278
These items are allowed.
eBay Customer Service Reps repeatedly remove these items, cite incorrect policy, and deny appeals. Phone calls to Customer Support do not resolve the issue.
They either do not know the policy, do not put in effort to review the policy, or are willfully going against the policy.
Thus far, their negligence has cost me over $15,000 in personal damages.
shire123
·2 days agoI'm beginning to think that the OP is just stringing us along and is just being argumentative for argument sake. The OP just disagrees with anyone posting a statement that runs contrary to their interpretation of things.
Note that the OP does have items listed so those have not been taken down.
The OP has yet to delineate what laws or statutes have been broken. Not following a policy is not law breaking.
brousjerem
OP2 days agoThere is no “my interpretation of things”. You have yet to actually engage the actual topic.
It is not my responsibility to explain basic laws to you.
On the actual topic, yesterday I appealed around a dozen items. Several I did during the day, spread apart by several hours. These items were removed with the description being that they belong in the sex toy category. I used the same text, same evidence screenshot, and quoted policy text for each. These appeals were approved. The remainder, which were removed for the same reason, I appealed in the same manner back to back late at night. An hour or so later, i received emails stating they were rejected. Ten emails time stamped in the spam of four minute, meaning they spent less than 30 seconds “reviewing” these appeals.
Customer Support is not doing its job and is violating company policy.
Do you have anything meaningful to add to the actual topic? Because thus far, you have yet to add anything to the actual topic, and have given false information more than once.
Have you dealt with eBay not following policies before? What did you do? Who did you contact? Did you choose to go through their arbitration process? Did you choose to file a report with the FTC? What, precisely, did you do?
You’re either knowledgeable on the subject, or you are not.
albertabrightalberta
·3 days ago@brousjerem
Instead of arguing about why you're right and everyone else is wrong, you need to look further into protected intellectual property, IP rights holders rights and ebay policy.
You've complained about how much money you "lost" because you weren't able to sell the "bootlegged" items, how you originally bought them from other sellers whose listings (evidently) weren't reported or removed, and how everyone else who responded is "derailing" the thread.
While there's always the possibility that you'll sometimes get a poster who offers bad or inaccurate advice, incorrect answers are usually called out because we understand that people's livelihoods are at stake.
And that's why you really need to evaluate the replies and take them to heart because if you continue on the road you're on, you may not have a selling account to worry about.
Instead of getting angry because you aren't hearing what you'd hoped to hear, you should be grateful that strangers who owe you nothing are trying to help you.
brousjerem
OP3 days agoI already have looked into IP. You’re simply wrong is all.
annadryl
·2 days agoI can't believe this thread is still going on, it's hard with the new format, with no real notifications.
That said, if you need to fight to the end, despite all logic... best of luck!
But best to just get a job maybe?
brousjerem
OP2 days agoI have a job. Despite all logic? Use some.
123dreamland-2009
·4 days ago · EditedThe only one breaking any laws here is the OP selling porno images of copyrighted characters from Marvel, Lucusfilm and other companies he's ripping off. you should be glad they only took down you listings and did not sue you for copyright violation.
brousjerem
OP4 days agoI purchased them on eBay from a publisher with 100k sales.
123dreamland-2009
·4 days agoThat person is NOT a publisher he is using AI images of copyrighted characters to make porno comics which is illegal.
brousjerem
OP4 days agoI wouldn’t know. I bought them off eBay in Good Faith that I would be able to resell them on here. eBay earned money off me buying them, and now I can’t resell them due to customer service representatives not knowing the Adult Items Policy. That seller has sold 100k of these items and is not getting account restrictions. I’ve listed like less than 100, and have had almost two full months of account restrictions trying to resell the exact same items. These items aren’t getting removed due to copyright issues; the customer service representatives basically just make up stuff out of nowhere’s concerning adult items.
gone.c-33
·4 days agoAnd if Disney, who is VERY protective of their IP, takes interest in your listings, the damages will run you waaaay more than $15K.
brousjerem
OP4 days agoI wouldn’t be in any risk. It would be eBay and the original seller.
gone.c-33
·4 days agoIs that what you believe? Rights owners have been known to go after sellers for ended, unsold listings.
Disney, Marvel, Nintento, Hannah-Barbera and co. do not care that you didn’t produce the items yourself, or that the items are not advertised on your own website, they care that you are trying to profit off their intellectual property. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they went especially hard at people selling pornofied versions of their children’s programming characters.
eoma689485
·3 days agoThe seller is absolutely the one carrying the legal risk, not the marketplace.
Buying in "Good Faith" isn't a shield: Legally, innocence or ignorance is not a valid defense against copyright infringement. Even if you genuinely believed that the eBay items were legitimate, you are still legally liable for distributing unauthorized copies of copyrighted material.
The First Sale Doctrine doesn't apply here: The First Sale Doctrine allows people to resell legally acquired, authentic goods (like a used book or a genuine DVD). It does not apply to counterfeit or unauthorized goods. Because the original items you bought were already illegal "bootlegs" or copyright violations, you have no legal right to resell them.
"Whataboutism" isn't a legal defense: Pointing out that another seller has sold 100k items without getting caught does not make your listings legal. It just means the other seller hasn't been caught yet by the automated systems or the rights holders.
grand-and-glorious-purpose
·5 days agoIt doesn't matter if you are 100% in the right.
ebay took your dirty covers down and re-listing them is only going to put your account at risk.
There is no winning this fight.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoYour argument is what, exactly? That companies can willfully break the law?
shire123
·5 days ago@brousjerem Personally, I think lots of companies willfully break the law.
But what law is being broken here? If laws are being broken then maybe they need to be reported to the authorities.
robot-hands
·4 days ago · EditedYou have a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation you are putting yourself in.
If ebay doesn't want you listing something you don't get to list it.
There is no one to argue with and there is no fight to win.
If they get listed again they will 100% get taken down again and your ebay career is one step closer to being over.
Sell them somewhere else or stop sourcing them.
That's the nuts and bolts of it.
...and EVEN IF you got a CSR to agree with you and tell you that they are OK to list DO NOT.
brousjerem
OP4 days agoI think you’re confused. These were purchased off eBay by a publisher who has sold 100k copies of this.
robot-hands
·4 days ago · EditedSigh.
Please pay attention.
ebays says no, that's the end of it.
brousjerem
OP4 days agoExcept eBay says yes to 100k by another seller, so, no, that is not the end of it.
robot-hands
·3 days agoI believe that you believe that.
You want to thrown off ebay continue doing what you are doing.
bbcardzman
·5 days agoTime to give up. You will NEVER win this one and you will NEVER be able to list these items on eBay.
THAT'S THE FACTS!
brousjerem
OP5 days ago · EditedThe original seller on eBay has 100k item sales of the exact series I am reselling.
tobaccocardyahoo
·5 days agoAnd you have apparently made it to the list of repeat violators by continuing to attempt to list such items.
This will not end up well for you, if you continue, make plans for your next selling venue.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoThey’ve been listed. They just slowly get removed.
shire123
·5 days agoIf you are looking for an answer that you agree with, it is not going to happen on these boards. You have dug your heels in on this issue so it is now between you and ebay. And guess who wins that?
As stated several times. Your only recourse at this point will be getting your lawyers involved as you have one interpretation and one only.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoDug my heels in on this issue? One interpretation? It’s black and white in the policy.
shire123
·5 days ago@brousjerem As I said. Dug in your heels with your one interpretation. You are beating a dead horse here.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoThere is only one interpretation. That’s how words work. If you’re reading some other interpretation, then you’re just reading wrong. Not that complicated.
eBay is at fault. Not that complicated.
grann-4629
·5 days agoeBay is at fault.
Now, carry on 😎
jonathanbrightlight
·5 days agoIt doesn’t matter if eBay is at fault, you won’t get anywhere by just ignoring the removals and continuing to push the issue. You’re just going to end up without the ability to sell anything on eBay, probably very soon.
brousjerem
OP4 days agoAt what point did I say I ignored the removals? They’re still removed.
jonathanbrightlight
·4 days agoIf they’re being “repeatedly removed”, you’re ignoring that and still listing them.
shire123
·5 days agoIt appears you are beating your head up against a wall. Ebay has spoken. It appears that you have been given some good advice about not listing these items as comics. Use the advice taht annadryl has given you.
Or get your attorneys involved.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoNot listing as comics would be against eBay's policies and would also constitute fraud.
jonathanbrightlight
·5 days agoThat’s a funny assertion, but completely false.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoNo, it isn’t.
powell-collectibles
·5 days ago · EditedI don’t necessarily agree on the fraud, but fact check true that it would be against eBay policy to list in categories that are not relevant to the item.
shire123
·5 days ago@powell-collectibles But are the potential categories that are mentioned in some posts actually "not relevant"? Yes. A comic is generally a comic but that doesn't mean that there is not some other tangentially related category that would fit?
powell-collectibles
·5 days ago · EditedI suppose that there is usually a gray area. I haven’t looked at these items, but I would say that a comic book should not be listed as a postcard. Again, I haven’t looked at his listings – that’s just an in general comment.
I think that eBay set up this policy to discourage sellers from listing in categories with lower final value fees. I don’t think they really care if a comic is listed in the postcard – but some people like to be very letter of the law in everything that they do.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoThey’re resale comics purchased from https://www.ebay.com/str/marvelouscomics?_trksid=p4624852.m4084.l113337 that has sold 100k copies of this series.
If they were prints of the cover (prints are sold by major comic artists of their popular covers), those would belong under art.
mam98031
·5 days ago · Edited@shire123 @jonathanbrightlight @brousjerem Very good point. A good example are some of the books I carry. I sell craft type pattern books for crochet, cross stitch, embroidery, quilting, painting, etc. I do not list them in the Books category for Non Fiction, but I could. I list them in Arts & Crafts categories for the various types of craft the book represents.
So yes, there is often other categories that work just fine for a given product and do not break any rule. IDK if there is one for this OP, but there might be. Some research would need to be done first.
annadryl
·6 days agoYou have them listed in the /Comics category. Is there a more appropriate place for these? These aren't kiddie comics.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoNo. They are comics. That is the correct category.
They are not Art listings.
grand-and-glorious-purpose
·5 days agoSince the mid 90s most comics have not been for kids
rfmtm
·6 days agoIf you are sure your listings are within policy the only thing that will get ebay's attention is a letter from your attorney to their legal department. Then you can get on the exemption list, which will require a review before a bot just takes your listings down. Otherwise you are on the bot's radar for auto take down.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoIts customer service representatives, not bots, removing them.
You’re likely right, though. I don’t think customer service even reads anything. BBB complaint response was by someone who didn’t even read the complaint.
rfmtm
·5 days agoAnymore, they just let the bots do the dirty work, except in certain instances and then often you get a rep that doesn't know what they are doing anyway. You can try sending a private message, which will at least get you to someone that has more knowledge and authority to help you, but short of getting on the exemption list the bots will find you again.
Send a private message for further help here:
https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/
brousjerem
OP5 days agoTheir messages are turned off, so guess I will have to submit a formal dispute. Worst customer service I’ve ever experienced.
The boilerplate email they send out says:
“The following items are allowed only under the conditions outlined below:
Adult magazines that contain nudity are allowed only if they don't contain sexual activity and if no images of nudity are showing in the listing.
Some examples of this include Bear (magazine), Blue (magazine), Butt (magazine), Gayletter, Mayfair, On Our Backs, Penthouse, Playboy, Playgirl, and Playguy. This isn't an exhaustive list of magazines we allow. Any adult magazine that doesn't contain sexually explicit content can be listed following the guidelines in the this policy.”
Which is not even what the actual policy says.
brousjerem
OP3 days agoThey turned their messages on and told me to message them about it. Haven't heard back from them yet, though. The message was rather long, and included letting them know that their customer service is using a version of the policy that is different than the actual live Policy, which I think is probably the root issue to all of this. Not sure if they will be of any help, as Customer Support via phone seem to just be robots on a script, but it's better than nothing. Thanks again.
grann-4629
·5 days agoIt's all 'bots these days on eBay ... you're spinning your wheels here. Sorry, but you will probably have to sell your comics on another venue ... the 'bots are on to you and resistance is futile.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoThen why aren’t they harassing the original seller that has sold over 100k of these?
luckythewinner
·6 days agoeBay states right in the user agreement that you acknowledged that they do not have to follow their own policies:
"we reserve the right to refuse, modify, or terminate all or part of our Services to anyone for any reason at our discretion"
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259
brousjerem
OP5 days agoThat is not what that means.
grann-4629
·5 days agoThat is not what that means.
What does it mean then? The statement says any reason at their discretion.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoNot when it involves one of their policies. The same document says they agree to follow their own policies.
broto_64
·3 days ago · EditedI learned a long time ago their policies are written in a fashion that allows them to make decisions on a whim, grann-4629 is right. Ebay is the owner of the sandbox and they apply rules, anytime, for any reason, even if it goes against what was written, just like when we were kids - whoever owns the sandbox makes the rules, and it's not always fair. And yes it is a total load of you-know-what, just so you know I've been in your shoes and I feel you, deeply. Unfortunately I'm not willing to get upset all over again, I have ultimately accepted their "decisions" and after a couple of mild slaps did not relist whatever item(s) even though other sellers listed them and I was not going against the written rules, it just wasn't worth my frustration.
brousjerem
OP3 days agoYou didn’t bother contacting anyone about it?
magicjohnsonsvariety
·3 days agoWhy bother? Arguing with Ebay is like arguing with your wife...you will not win...
I've been selling on here for 27 years and ebay still sometimes removes items that are 100% within their written policy...even with hundreds of other sellers selling the exact same thing...
It's ebays loss in the end...there are tons of other selling sites now...
magicjohnsonsvariety
·3 days agoUnfortunetly this is the reality...and most sellers who've been here a long time completely understand this.
Ebay isn't like a court of law where every law and rule needs to be perfectly written otherwise a judge is forced to decide in your favor because of a loophole...
Ebay is allowed to bend, break, change, alter to their liking any policy they have...it's called discretion...and as unfair as it is...it is ebay reality...
brousjerem
OP3 days agoThat’s not even correct, though. Discretion does not circumvent statutes.
eoma689485
·6 days ago · EditedCustomer service agents aren't actively hunting down mature comic books and deleting them—eBay's overzealous AI system is entirely responsible for the removals, and those agents can't over-ride the AI system.
eBay’s AI automatically scans titles, descriptions, and listing metadata. It triggers a takedown if it catches combinations of keywords (like specific artist names, publishers, or phrases like "mature" or "nudity"). So, something in your listings are triggering those removals, could be a word, or a combination of words.
I can only suggest that you not list them at this time, once those AI bots remove a listing, they will check your listings more often to make sure you don't put them back on again.
Just took a look at some of your listing - comics sure have changed since I was a kid, well except for the ones available at the head shops of course.
adamcartwright
·6 days agoYup, incels abound.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoIf it is AI, it states such in the removal and restriction email. If it is Customer Service Representatives, it states that in the email as well.
It’s Customer Service Representatives.
eoma689485
·5 days agoThen someone reported your listings - a competitor, a potential buyer, or a disgruntled buyer.
brousjerem
OP5 days agoI have a feeling it’s a combination. Any time I have ever replied with basically a “no” to “buyers” requesting uncensored images, those are removed. Higher value ones that have had competitors that appear to have similar inventory have had those listings removed also. All of which are against TOS to abuse report feature