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eBay charged with multiple unfair labor complaints in struggle with its first Union.
I'm not surprised.
https://www.theverge.com/2023//7/31/23813935/ebay-tcgplayer-union-labor-unfair-complaint-cwa
52 comments
kh-leslie
·2 years agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
goldbrik
·2 years agoI will admit I do fancy cards and stuff, but I am more or less turned off by big-business, and sadly even local stores as they mostly target children and gets loopy when certain adults enter the stores. Again investing a "trading card rating / selling" company is like investing in random collectable/comic book stores. "How does that business works again?". Tons of comic shops have tons of filler books nobody buys or cares about since the big comic boom of the 1990's. The Trading card scene has gone since the original pokemon/MTG days. Even sports cards seem questionable. It is like I am buying something only valuable because of the value like a "Mona Lisa". Again tons of stores all over the place why invest? TCGplayer union is probably just butting into ebay because they know they can get a higher pay due to the fact it is "ebay".
It has to be more like a privilege to work in such store. My local comic store clearly discriminates hiring pre-teens and mostly lighter-skinned non African people most of the time. You barely see any body working there. Another store has health insurance that the employees fight over, via getting the weakest link fired. The store owner enjoys watching them give each other problems. Even so all I see is a sinking ship in that area.
valueaddedresource
·2 years ago@goldbrik except that part mentioned multiple times in this thread where TCGPlayer workers attempted to unionize previously in 2020, more than 2 years before the eBay acquisition.
https://www.syracuse.com/business/2020/05/bernie-sanders-backed-unionization-drive-at-tcgplayer-in-syracuse-fails.html
The fact is that relations between management and labor at TCGPlayer were already "strained" and their workers were already "union-leaning" long before eBay came into the picture - which is one reason why this whole situation has raised investor concerns about due diligence and disclosure in the acquisition process.
It shouldn't be a huge surprise that leaving existing leadership in place after the acquisition would fuel another attempt to unionize, given the history.
Did eBay just completely miss every red flag along the way and blunder into this position or did they have the information to indicate it could have been an issue but thought (hoped?) they could quell the rabble-rousers and avoid it getting to this point so they wouldn't have to disclose those risks to investors?
Either way, it doesn't reflect well on eBay leadership.
valueaddedresource
·3 years agoTCGUnion-CWA says eBay and TCGPlayer have finally recognized their union and agreed to bargain a contract.
valueaddedresource
·3 years agoInteresting - despite private acknowledgement to TCGUnion-CWA that they are willing to bargain in good faith, it appears eBay has very recently decided to remove the language from their Human Rights policy that publicly committed to doing so.
https://www.ebayinc.com/company/human-rights-policy-statement/
https://web.archive.org/web/20230609234915/https://www.ebayinc.com/company/human-rights-policy-statement/
The sentence that said "eBay also respects workers’ rights to unionize, and commits to bargain in good faith with any relevant associations or labor unions" had been on this policy page since at least April 2021...so apparently it was all good until someone tried to actually take them up on it?
Sure doesn't seem like a company that is really committed to bargaining in good faith and more than a little ironic timing to do it right before Labor Day. 🤔
valueaddedresource
·3 years agoFor anyone interested in keeping track - NLRB denied eBay TCGPlayer's request to review their appeal and attempt to overrule the successful union vote today.
https://www.nlrb.gov/case/03-RC-310876
luckythewinner
·3 years agoTLDR:
The issues between management and the union organizers began two years before eBay acquired the company.
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@luckythewinner that is the sort of thing that should have been uncovered as part of the due diligence process before commiting to the acquisition but was apparently overlooked in their rush to get the deal done (originally it was supposed to close Q1 2023, but they sped up the process to close at the end of Oct 2022).
The previous unionization attempt in 2020 even gained support from Bernie Sanders and had a bit of news coverage (easy to find on Google), so it's not exactly like it was a secret there were tensions between management and employees.
Certainly raises some questions about why eBay would plan to leave existing management in charge when there was a history of "strained" labor relations, why they didn't proactively come up with ways to mitigate the situation/integrate the new employees in a positive way to try to avoid things getting to the point of another union drive, if various eBay departments and execs in charge of the M&A process dropped the ball and/or why the risk of unionization wasn't disclosed to investors much sooner (even when they finally disclosed some risks in a 10-K filling in late February, they used very vague language and very much downplayed the situation).
valueaddedresource
·3 years agoAlso keep in mind - this is much bigger than just TCGPlayer.
eBay acquired Sneaker Con's authentication operations in 2021 with facilities in Nevada and New York.
The handbag authentication is also in house in eBay facilities in Nevada and New Jersey and they also have the Vault in Delaware.
eBay does not disclose how many employees they have at these locations or in these types of roles, but all of these locations have similar warehouse/shipping/receiving/authenticating jobs being performed.
While eBay is certainly nowhere near Amazon in terms of fulfillment centers or running these types of labor-centric operations, in the last few years with authentication programs and other parts of the "vertical focus", eBay is no longer "just a venue" or "just a software/tech company" - they are increasingly putting themselves in a position where these kinds of labor issues may come into play.
If you think eBay and investors are not looking at that bigger picture right now in light of what is going on at TCGPlayer...well I don't know what to say, because I can assure you they absolutely are. 😂
bryo_3145
·3 years ago"Next thing you know the illegal immigrants will cross the picket line and cover those jobs."
valueaddedresource
·3 years agoJust adding for anyone who is interested - the newest filed complaints are now up on the NLRB site.
https://www.nlrb.gov/search/case/tcgplayer
bryo_3145
·3 years agoUnfair labor practices. eBay is a large worldwide, international corporation I hope that they are treating their employees justly.
tobaccocardyahoo
·3 years agoI do not care about TCGPlayer, its employees, its union or its business.
This post had no business wasting forum member's time.
I prefer to choose what I waste my time on.
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@tobaccocardyahoo you are certainly free to scroll on by any community posts that don't interest you personally.
That being said, I think this is perfectly fair game for community discussion for those who *are* interested as some sellers may be interested in the fact their fees are going to pay high-priced anti-union lawyers to fight this, not to mention the way eBay is conducting themselves in this matter could certainly have an impact on buyers in that category, especially younger Gen Zers who may lean more pro-labor, generally speaking.
tobaccocardyahoo
·3 years agoIt is off topic with a misleading subject.
There is probably some place to find those who care but not in the Selling Forum on the Ebay community.
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@tobaccocardyahoo there is absolutely nothing misleading about the subject.
A.) The OP simply copy and pasted the exact headline used by the media outlet that published the article they linked to.
B.) As clearly established in multiple posts in this thread, eBay owns TCGPlayer, the workers who have voted to unionize are now employed by/incorporated into eBay, and the latest round of complaints filed with the NLRB name both eBay and TCGPlayer.
joliztoyco
·3 years agoYeah. We don't talk about Ebay subjects here in the Ebay Community.
It's "off topic".
I LOVE this place!!
Hours of entertainment.
meme6253
·3 years agoVery Interesting!, Thanks For The Link!
valueaddedresource
·3 years agoAlso for anyone who still has questions about who's in charge here....just go to the eBay home page and scroll to the bottom.
onefootflipper
·3 years agoOne other side that might not be immediately apparent is that the supply of people who want to work in the TCG industry is insanely large compared to the tiny amount of jobs in it.
I have worked in the industry on the retail side. We had guys with college degrees lining up for entry level retail jobs with no benefits that paid less than fast food did. We had so much choice in employees that we didn't take applications and only directly recruited people whom we know were interested and were experts in the field. That was 4 years ago, that employer is much larger now and I have no knowledge of their current salaries or benefits.
I am willing to bet tcgplayer also has people lining up wanting to work there to the point where they don't need to pay well.
joliztoyco
·3 years agoWhy in the world would ANYONE WANT to work in a low paying job?
With no benefits?
And I can assure you the job market has changed considerably from "4 years ago".
Their are help-wanted signs hanging everywhere. Unemployment is 3.6%.
Nucor Steel (where I work) put up a large billboard along the Interstate, 20 miles away from their mill, extolling the benefits of working for them. Trying to attract new workers.
And those employees make 100+ thousand a year.
Whole new employment world out there.
Try and keep up.
bryo_3145
·3 years agoThat's something any college graduate job would most be interested in.
onefootflipper2
·3 years agoThere have always been jobs that people lining up to work there because they wanted to be around whatever it was.
In the 90s you had guys with enough skills to be some sort of quite competent technician fighting over jobs at car stereo stores that paid a few bucks over minimum wage.
Same thing with record stores back when they were a thing.
Most hobby industries still have the same thing. You won't ever have a problem getting anyone to work at the baseball card store, as you will have plenty of obsessed young guys and retired guys who just want to be around the cards.
The TCG industry is the same way. Usually, the people working in it full time are young and single and obsessed with the games. I always told them that they should enjoy it for a while but they should get out before they are 30 or else they may never have a career. The part timer employees tended to be much older and usually have perfectly good careers and still just wanted to be around the cards.
sextons-sweet-deals
·3 years agoI think the article / link if fake news.
Why would eBay employees have a union? They are office format, desktop workers, and probably work from home / remote at times.
They do not do any physical work like delivering packages or work in a warehouse.
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@sextons-sweet-deals did you even read the article?
TCGPlayer is a collectible trading card marketplace that eBay acquired last year with over 200 employees working at the company's physical location in Syracuse, New York. The specific employees who have unionized engage in physical, sometimes specialized work in handling and authenticating cards at that facility.
One might even surmise one reason eBay is particularly concerned about this issue is the further implications it could have for their other labor-centric operations for sneaker and handbag authentication, not to mention warehouse workers at the eBay Vault.
Considering how many articles are written any time someone even whispers the word "union" within 5 miles of an Amazon warehouse, it absolutely blows my mind how little main stream media attention this has gotten.
sextons-sweet-deals
·3 years agoThank you.
I would have never believed it until you told me. A trading card union. Crazy!
non-physical work and they work in a controlled environment.
The news here covers Amazon, Starbucks, and Musk as if they were getting paid to do so and it can be the dumbest things that means nothing to me or anyone else. Nothing is ever said about eBay. The other day, the news was covering a new consumer product and right at the end, they toss in that you can buy it on Amazon.
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@sextons-sweet-deals I'm not sure how you are getting "non-physical work" out of this.
Here's a current ad from TCGPlayer for the types of jobs we are talking about:
https://ebay.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/TCGPlayer_External_Career/details/AC-Generalist--Overnight_R0060358
The overnight shift is 8pm - 7am
As an Authentication Center (AC) Generalist you will be directly responsible for the following primary workflow tasks:
1. shipping buyer orders
2. stowing inventory,
3. pulling orders
4. receiving incoming merchandise.
This includes counting, conditioning, and sorting receipts; as well as pulling, kitting, and packaging buyer orders.
Count, sort, condition and file products and supplies while maintaining standard levels of output
Check the accuracy of pulled, prepped and packaged items
Intensify or report any discrepancy in products
Perform labeling, sorting, wrapping, packing and repacking products for customers
Place completed pulled, prepped and staged orders into appropriate areas
Prepare and stage skids for outbound shipments using different carriers
Finish duties and tasks in a timely manner while completing targeted amount of output per day for the tasks performed
I suppose it may be less strenuous in some ways than some Amazon fulfillment centers, but these are by no means people just sitting in front of computers in an office all day - it is physical warehouse type work.
In fact one of the points mentioned in one of the most recent complaints is they took chairs out of the work stations so workers must stand during most of their shift.
I will definitely agree with you though it is interesting/odd how little media coverage in general eBay seems to get.
sextons-sweet-deals
·3 years ago1. A card grader is not doing anything strenuous or physical, nor is the shipping / receiving personal.
2. How does one become a card grader anyway? I don't know of any college courses for this, but I do see courses for gaming on the news.
3. The graders are NOT sitting in a building with no A/C or no heat (I hope). If they were, then cards are being slowly damaged.
4. eBay card grading services / vault cannot be operating like an Amazon or Walmart warehouse / distribution center, but if they were, how hard could it be to handle a 2 lb. or less package compared to anything and everything else from A & W?
5. The vault program, if it still exists, should be a slow processed / detailed operation. I can't see anyone claiming an on-the-job injury unless they are looking to claim one.
6. staging skids is nothing!
7. I stand all day in front of my computer. I set it up on purpose because you get fat sitting. I know.
I doubt semis are backing into the vault or the claimed authenticator(s) locations to haul boxes of single cards.
Those whining about their job need to get a taste of real physical work when you are exposed to the elements outside 8 to 10 hours a day and not drinking a $10 coffee and texting your friends or playing on social media while on the job.
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@sextons-sweet-deals I'm not aware of there being any specific level of physical intensity or strenuousness necessary in order for workers to form unions, nor is a high likelihood of on the job injury a requirement or even necessarily the only reason workers may want to unionize.
One could argue pilots do nothing but sit in an air conditioned cockpit all day. 😂
Regardless of what you, or I, or anyone else thinks about the jobs or the workers involved or even the entire concept of unionization in general....the only thing that actually matters here is they followed the rules and procedures to petition to form a union as part of the Communications Workers of America, their vote won, eBay/TCGPlayer filed objections with NLRB, NLRB rejected those objections completely and ruled to certify the union and now eBay's lawyers are appealing that ruling.
byrd69er
·3 years agoMy son and daughter work at TCG here in Syracuse. I've toured the facility and can guarantee to anyone here, the work is not all peaches and cream with paid yoga sessions during work. It's a big place and it is busier than you'd ever imagine. Most people here wouldn't be able to keep up....including me.
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@byrd69er that's interesting! I can only imagine...I had no idea they even ran a night shift until I saw that ad I linked above. They must be cranking through a lot of cards!
sextons-sweet-deals
·3 years agoPlease give us some more detailed examples. What is the process that you have seen that raises concern on physical work? How are employees being overworked handling cards / packages that weigh less than a pint of milk? If this is a safety issue, why don't you report it?
Are they not working in a climate-controlled environment? If not, that should raise concern for sellers shipping their cards there for grading.
Please elaborate on the comment: Most people here wouldn't be able to keep up....including me.
What did you see?
What was so physical? Is it more physical than carrying mortar, bricks, blocks, cutting grass in 100 degree heat, repairing roads, working on a new building, or stripping shingles and putting on a new roof?
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@sextons-sweet-deals again, I'm not sure why you are so caught up on exact measurements of physical intensity or exertion. We get it, you think these are just a bunch of entitled kids who wouldn't know a hard day's work if it bit them...somewhere...but A.) you haven't provided any actual evidence of that and B.) that doesn't really have anything to do with the issue at hand.
There are many reasons workers may choose to organize and many unionized professions that are not physically strenuous or overly dangerous or risky - in fact the Communications Workers of America (under which TCGPlayer employees have chosen to organize) represents a wide array of workers across communications and information industries, news media, airlines, broadcast and cable television, public service, higher education and health care, manufacturing, tech and more.
Many of those jobs don't meet your arbitrary threshold for "physical work", nor probably would being a telephone operator in the 1930s, but that's OK because luckily the NLRB isn't looking to people on the internet to tell them who gets to form a union or not. 😂
gone.c-33
·2 years agoUnions are not only for labor intensive workers.
All workers, regardless of their job, should have access to a safe workplace, fair wages and treatment and benefits.
I’ve worked both outdoor jobs with physical work and long hours and 9 to 5 jobs in an office and I’ve only gotten a work related injury at an office job.
ed8108
·3 years agoWhy wouldn't manny private sector employees prefer to have a union?
Realize that even government employees have unions, protecting the interests of employees working for government !
richard1rst
·3 years agoGeorge Washington once said:
“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is force! Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.â€
You could just as easily substitute "union bosses" for "government" and the quote is just as true.
While it is true that both governments and unions serve useful purposes, they do so for their own aggrandizement not necessarily for the benefit of the members.
bryo_3145
·3 years agoThe problem with this is when the corporations are running and have power over the government?
bryo_3145
·3 years agoPeople need to ask themselves why all these labor unions are going on strike? Why are labor unions getting pushed out and disappearing? Where is the work force? Why do people not want to work anymore? Cost of living vs. wages? Homeless increase. A lot of our work force has moved overseas. Cheap labor. There are so many factors.
God Bless America, and Canada Port Workers.
wil_483592
·3 years agoUnemployment rates are lower now than in 2017 and nearly at the same number as the year covid happened. You might want to check your facts.
bryo_3145
·3 years agoNever said there weren't any jobs out there. "I know the stats, what facts are you talking about?" The fact is that some or most of these jobs need a wage increase to keep up with cost of living. That's why Unions are going on strike.
richard1rst
·3 years agoUnemployment rates are the meaningless Shiny Object politicians use to mislead people. It is one of those Big Lies that politicians tell so often that people thinks it is the end all and be all.
According to forbes.con there are 6 measurements of unemployment, with some modifying the results of others. For example The U-3 unemployment rate (the one you have cited) is the one you hear reported on the news, but it does not provide a complete picture of employment in the U.S. This is because it fails to include people who are not fully part of the labor force or want full-time work but can only find part-time jobs.
It also doesn’t include people who are not looking for work, whether or not they would like a job. Since the official unemployment rate fails to consider people who aren’t looking for a job, it is directly impacted by the labor participation rate.
For example, in an economy with 100 people that has only 75 people employed, the unemployment rate could still be 0%, assuming none of the other 25 are actually looking for work. It might be that they have simply given up looking for work, or have retired, or they are living off of savings, or have gone on welfare or unemployment, or are part of the unemployable unwashed homeless masses, or married into a rich family or turned to a life of crime - well the possibilities just go on and on..
But hey, nothing to worry about - unemployment is as ZERO - Re-elect me !
richard1rst
·3 years agoEvery story has 2 sides. And yet the entire article is from the union's point of view only. A fair and balanced reporter would have included comments and counter arguments from eBay. Maybe the union itself isn't legitimate, or they engaged in illegal tactics, or ???????
But without both sides of the story the article is superfluous.
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@richard1rst TCGPlayer authentication workers followed the proper procedures to file a union petition and hold a vote - which won 136 (for) to 87 (against).
TCGPlayer/eBay put out a statement saying they were "disappointed" in the results and they filed objections with the National Labor Relations Board.
NLRB did not agree with eBay/TCGPlayer, stating that they "find that the Employer’s objections are wholly without merit" and overruling them in their entirety.
eBay has hired a very well known anti-union law firm and is throwing who knows how much money at dragging this out appealing that decision instead of accepting the results of the vote and the ruling.
Obviously their prerogative of course, but I have a hard time seeing how that jives with eBay's publicly published human rights policy which states, in part, "eBay also respects workers’ rights to unionize, and commits to bargain in good faith with any relevant associations or labor unions."
https://www.ebayinc.com/company/human-rights-policy-statement/
richard1rst
·3 years agoOK. Thanks for that.
But in all fairness, as I mentioned in my post, that information should have been in the news release. Otherwise, as stated, it is a one sided story immediately subject to skepticism. I fault the reporters for that.
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@richard1rst in fairness to the reporter, not every side in every story engages to the same degree or even responds to requests for comment.
The union side has been much more vocal/proactive with providing quotes and information. The reporter did the professional thing and stated that eBay/TCGPlayer had not responded to request for comment at the time of publishing and the article has since been updated to include a statement from TCGPlayer.
joliztoyco
·3 years agoMany of us have been following the story since last fall. And knew what has been going on.
The eBay exec who led this "acquisition" was sacked for not doing "due diligence" when the unionization effort was plain to see. Of course eBay didn't label it as such. But he's not employed there anymore.
Thanks to "valueaddedresource" I have been able to get information on many corporate maneuvers.
monica-sells
·3 years ago@valueaddedresource
You have done good research....
My whole point was the 'clickbait' headline...
IF it read
"...Re: TCGPlayer charged with multiple unfair labor complaints in struggle with its first Union..."
not a soul would bother looking at it.....
that all.......
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@monica-sells the headline is not inaccurate - the complaints being filed with the NLRB today name both TCGPlayer and eBay.
monica-sells
·3 years agointeresting....seems to me it is TCGPlayer that is the subject here.....
and, from the merger/acquisition press release....
“This new chapter allows us to continue operating independently within eBay, while also benefiting from their decades of industry experience and resources to deepen the connection between hobbyists and their communities,†Chedy Hampson, founder and CEO of TCGplayer, says in the press release.
bit, it's too late to deal in facts, the thread headline is already there.....
valueaddedresource
·3 years ago@monica-sells there has been a lot that has happened since that press release....including the fact that Hampson stepped down as CEO in March and eBay's GM Canada Rob Bigler was promoted to take over as CEO at TCGPlayer.
eBay's Chief Accounting Officer and Chief Information Officer both also stepped down around the same time and while eBay has given no official explanation for those departures, the timing and fact that they were both responsible for/involved in Mergers and Acquisition in those roles and that there have been serious questions raised about possible disclosure and due diligence lapses in the acquisition process that completely missed the risks of unionization (TCGPlayer workers previously tried organize in 2020) paints an interesting picture.
As of today the TCGPlayer employees are officially incorporated into eBay and while TCGPlayer may operate somewhat independently as a subsidiary, make no mistake that legally the company is owned by eBay and the workers are employed by eBay.
joliztoyco
·3 years agoReally?
Some of us actually READ ! You do know what "acquisition" means??
Here's a "pesky" fact:
Ebay OWNS them.
eBay Inc. (Nasdaq: EBAY), a global commerce leader that connects millions of buyers and sellers around the world, today announced it has completed its acquisition of TCGplayer, a trusted marketplace for collectible card game enthusiasts, for a total deal value of up to approximately $295 million.
This acquisition complements eBay’s focus category strategy and builds on its offerings to bring even more selection to enthusiasts. By combining eBay’s 26 years of experience and commitment to the trading cards category with TCGplayer’s expansive ecommerce platform and strategic omnichannel capabilities like order fulfillment and cart optimization, eBay and TCGplayer will enhance the overall collecting experience for customers. Sellers will be able to bring physical supply online and create customizable webstores, and with TCGplayer, they can rapidly upload, sort and identify large catalogs.
cardxcraft
·3 years agobit, it's too late to deal in facts, the thread headline is already there.....
Very dismissive...Ebay acquired TGC Player, thus they're one in the same. The headline is aptly titled.