Does eBay's MBG render feedback irrelevant?
Just reading through some older posts, and in this thread, a fellow forum participant ( @Anonymous ) asks the thought-provoking questions (left unanswered):
With eBay’s MBG, is feedback even relevant any longer? Are buyers more likely to gamble with a poor seller given that returns are so easy?
Personally I love these sorts of questions because they extend well beyond the mundane rules-and-regulation conundrums that are usually featured here... so I am taking the liberty of starting a new thread, as I would really enjoy getting other perspectives.
With eBay’s MBG, is feedback even relevant any longer?
In my personal experience, I have found that there is a strong correlation between the importance of feedback and the category in which one sells.
For example, I used to sell strictly factory-sealed LPs. They were new, so 99.9% of the time, there was no question about the quality of the product. (The remaining .01% might ask whether the LP was used and was simply re-sealed... a legitimate concern but not statistically significant.)
As a result, the only buyer concerns might have been proper packaging, shipping speed and delivery times. Those can be critically important to a buyer, but generally speaking, if a seller sells only one type of item and has been doing so for many years, buyers are, I reckon, likely to assume (as in my case) that the seller knows what he's doing. And consequently, buyers might not think it critical to look at my feedback to make sure about my reliability as a seller.
When I broadened my inventory to include things like antiques, glass, porcelain and similar items, my customer demographic changed completely: I was now selling far more expensive and fragile items to buyers who as a group were older, wealthier, concerned more about quality than about price, and more old-fashioned about checking the bona fides of those with whom they are doing business. I know that feedback was and remains important to these buyers because they will often indicate same in the feedback they leave me.
Are buyers more likely to gamble with a poor seller given that returns are so easy?
Again, I suspect that this is category specific to a large degree. Someone who sells factory produced hose clamps for car radiators and who has some negative feedback might well be just as reliable as another seller who has perfect feedback. I would be a lot less concerned about purchasing such an item from a seller with a substandard record. (I buy car parts locally in any event.)
I do not shop here, but on that platform where I do shop, I am willing to pay an extra few bucks to a seller who has an impeccable selling record, if for only one reason: I do not want the hassle of having to repackage something and drive it to the post office if I am not happy with it.
I reckon that -- depending on the buyer demographic in question -- that same concern applies exponentially here on eBay, where sellers have the option of stating "no returns."
I know that in some categories, ""no returns" is a wholly acceptable standard for customer service and one that often works for sellers. (ETA: obviously, not in the event of a buyer who files a "not as described.")
But alas, for buyers who pay attention to such things, it does not work across all categories and in particular those in which I currently sell.
iamalwaysright
·1 year agoTLDR. But I totally do when I buy, usually with stuff that isn't that crucial to me. And like you said, reason being is because I know ebay's MBG well. Haven't been burned yet, but then again I don't go out seeking poor rated sellers to buy stuff from. I just happen to come across them and don't really care about the feedback.
roccotacodad54
·1 year agoI for one read sellers reviews. Although the MBG is very good it's a pain. I've just thrown low cost items away rather than the bother of jumping through the hoops associated with it.
It's a cost versus time issue with me.
soh.maryl
·1 year agoWhat hoops do you jump through? Have had very few, maybe 3, NAD cases in the 30 yrs or so I have been here, but found it was an easy process. Two of the items were rather expensive, so I opened NAD cases. The whole process took about 5 days or so. The other was not so much, but I did open a case and they told me to just keep it and refunded. Where were the hoops?
pikabo-icu
·1 year agoI don't think it does for one simple reason; Yes the MBG will get you a refund from a "rotten seller" that sells items that don't match the description or never ships at all BUT...
The process for filing & receiving a refund takes a lot of time. I vet my sellers via FB and sales experience so I've only need to use the MBG a few times in the last couple decades. Without these tools I would have needed to open a lot more cases. This ties up my time & money and I imagine clogs up the system.
So I still use FB as a shopping tool.
powell-collectibles
·1 year agoThat’s why fb matters to me when buying. I’m not worried about getting my money back. I’m worried about wasting my time and having to work for a refund.
soh.maryl
·1 year agoAs is exemplified in your message, attitudes toward getting a refund are very personal and it's no surprise they vary by the individual. I don't mind the time it takes, am retired and can waste some moments. You, on the other hand, are very conscious of time loss or wasted so you handle these situations the best way for you.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoI have had bad purchases from bad Ebay sellers over the years. All have had 100% positive FB before and after my purchase. A small number have been NARUed after my purchase, and some have had one or two negs.
FB was created because Pierre did not want to police this site. He and I had a discussion by email about this when I refused to accept Ebay as an advertiser on my website.
FB is not natural, and most sites get far less FB for their sellers than Ebay does. Most buyers do not read or leave FB, even on Ebay.
Some people feel it helps them decide, so I do not wish to deter them from any means they need to make a buying decision.
When I have felt I earned a negative, I did not get one. When I got one, it was unjustified and the buyer was human detritus. In both cases, the world did not end nor was business disrupted.
There are categories on Ebay I would never buy in, let alone sell in. FB will not change that.
fbusoni
OP1 year ago@tobaccocardyahoo
Thanks... that (in bold) is an interesting observation.
I take it you are referring to buyers who are incessantly badgered by eBay to leave feedback.
I don't get feedback of any kind from 3 out of 5 buyers.
When I do get positive feedback, it more often than not from people who leave it almost immediately upon receiving their item (some same day, others the next day).
These buyers are excited, animated, happy to have gotten what they wanted but are especially pleased that I shipped same day as they ordered.
I figure that in these cases, buyers are in fact they are responding in a "natural" way for the simple reason that they want to express appreciation for the fact that I fulfilled my end of the transaction.
Which tells me that the typical shopping experience on eBay may leave something to be desired.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoThe rate of FB many sellers on Amazon receive is 3 or 5 out of 100. And many sellers on Amazon are lucky to break 1%. And it is not only low quality sellers.
I thank the cashiers in the supermarket or big box store. Most buyers do not say thank you or anything to the cashier.
Expressing appreciation for doing a job that someone is paid to do is not natural. Expressing appreciation for anything is becoming uncommon.
Dehumanization has been a trend in retail for a long time. And it has been fed by retailers as well as customers. In the famous Filene's Basement in Boston, I and many customers had a relationship with a salesperson who served us whenever we visited the store, and bought, You go into a department store today and you have to search for a salesperson.
I have years old relationships with some of my online customers which go back years and cross many sites. A few of them leave FB, but when they do, they are often private jokes intended to make me laugh.
chapeau-noir
·1 year ago@tobaccocardyahoo I thank the cashiers in the supermarket or big box store. Most buyers do not say thank you or anything to the cashier.
IIRC, you've said this before - what sort of places are these? Everywhere I shop, even in PNW (famous for the 'Freeze'), people chat with cashiers all the time and or at least say thank you, unless the cashier is awful, and most are great.
soh.maryl
·1 year agoMy shopping is at a wide variety of local stores and I also always say thank you. Have noticed that store personnel used to chat more than they do now. They used to ask if you've tried a new product and if you like it, or commented about how much cereal their big high school boys could eat. Now the interaction is more business-like and that's ok too.
fbusoni
OP1 year ago@tobaccocardyahoo
That was my Amazon experience... thousands of sales and a couple hundred positive feedbacks -- and that was about 15 years ago or so.
I guess my experience -- at least on eBay -- has been far more pleasant... perhaps because of the stuff I sell and those who buy from me.
I was in contact with a buyer early this morning who reported to me that his item was supposed to have arrived Thursday (yesterday) but it did not.
I sent him tracking data which indicated the package would arrive today.
He went to the USPS site and did his own research... he contacted me an hour ago... this is my typical customer "type" (and he left me very, very kind and generous feedback):
 
soh.maryl
·1 year agoThe fact that your FB rate is 40percent tells you that the typical experience on eBay may leave something to be desired? I don't get the correlation.
adamcartwright
·1 year agoAs a buyer, I always look at the seller's FB to see their record on packaging.
I've received some very poorly packaged items in the past and need to avoid that.
And as a seller, I'm always happy when my FB mentions how well the item was packaged.
I would love to see a separate star rating for packaging, actually.
tinsoldierunderground
·1 year agoI agree that FB is less important for sellers who only sell single specific items, and have been for years.
For me as a buyer, I put a fair amount of stock in feedback left for sellers. I'm not buying on here with the idea that an end game MBG situation is fine, and I should just roll the dice with a s**t head seller because I'm covered. I want to know that the seller is sincere about packing and shipping well, since my usual purchases are either one-of-a-kind or scarce to begin with. Also important, I like to know that the buyers who share in my areas of interest, were satisfied with their purchases. If you're buying tooth brushes and underwear on this site, by all means gamble. But when it's an item that's in the hundreds or thousands of dollars range, I'll be happy to check feedback every time.
tarotfindsandmore
·1 year agoI think feedback remains a very useful tool for both buyers and sellers. Technically, as a seller, you can't cancel an order once it's been placed just because you don't like the feedback a buyer has left for others. I'm actually rather puzzled about how that would even work without the seller getting into serious hot water, but I do look at the feedback a potential buyer has and has left.
If a potential buyer's feedback is bad and/or they leave a lot of neutrals and negs, I decline their offer and block them. I also avoid any smaller seller with less than 100% feedback on the rare occasion I am the buyer. I tend to give high volume sellers a bit more grace because I know they may be relying on employees and that with high volume the likelihood of something falling through the cracks increases (to me it's like R species versus K species, for our biology fans).
The MBG means nothing to me, I just don't want the potential headache as either a buyer or seller.
chapeau-noir
·1 year agoI'm the opposite - a small seller may be excellent and have one crank hit them with a neg and their FB goes to 99% or 98%.
Whereas some large sellers simply deal in too much volume to pay much attention to what they're selling, so the likelihood of getting junk is higher.
I'll deal with the smaller seller any day.
tarotfindsandmore
·1 year agoI can see that logic. For me though it's a matter of accountability and control over the process. As a small seller, I know I am responsible for everything that happens up to the point I hand over my packages to the post office. That means it is my fault when something goes wrong.
Of course I will look at the nature of the feedback, but when I see a small seller with a bunch of INADs, complaints about communication, and poor customer service, I'm out. On the other hand, a huge seller may have no idea that they have a crummy employee not doing do his/her job and the feedback may be the first indication that they need to look into it.
Again, it's the difference between an invested "boutique" seller, and a Costco type with hundreds of items going out each day. If I want a cheap thing, I go with the latter. If I want a good thing, I go with the former. My expectations for small sellers are much higher.
sreu3058
·1 year agoAnother thought: many times it is ‘advised’ to sellers to get / create their own website. However, as a buyer, I am hesitant to purchase off private websites, no matter how pretty it is.
Not because I return things, but having authentic proven ratings and the back up of EBay or Etsy’s consumer protection is a real trust benefit in case of a blatant rip off. And, a track record of positive and recent reviews does assure me the shop is still active and will get the job done. That’s just common sense.
mamacassidy
·1 year agoI wouldn't say it's totally irrelevant, but it is definitely less useful than it used to be. I think this is because of the MBG as well as how ebay prompts the feedback. It now says something like "review this item", so much of the feedback is irrelevant to the actual transaction.
If they would prompt people to mention speed of shipping, packing, condition of items, etc. it might make people more likely to look at it and take it into consideration.
I look at feedback on ebay and reviews on other shopping sites just to see if there's a frequently repeated problem, and if there is, I probably won't purchase that item. Even with the MBG, I would prefer to avoid a hassle if there is a better seller/ product.
But the truth is, no matter where I shop or who I buy from, in this digital age, I'm always covered because I use credit cards that I can just do a chargeback on if something goes truly bad. And I think a lot of people feel this way.
an-57470
·1 year agoThis (above). Exactly. This is how I shop all online venues.
eburtonlab
·1 year agoFeedback many not be sufficient to always differentiate a good seller from a great seller, as even the best seller can get undeserved negative feedback, after all.
But feedback can be essential for differentiating between experienced and inexperienced seller accounts.
Buyers have many good reasons to be wary of dealing with new or inexperienced seller accounts, particularly when such accounts are offering deals that are too good to be true.
Many scammers understand how the money back guarantee works better than the average buyer does, and there are things that scammers can do, such as using false tracking information, that can require buyers to go to great lengths to obtain a refund.
It is often much easier to avoid a scam in the first place than it is to claw a refund back from an experienced scammer.
bbcardzman
·1 year agoFeedback is irrelevant for buyers. If you can't let everyone know that someone is a bad customer then feedback for the buyer is worthless!
eburtonlab
·1 year agoFeedback is irrelevant for buyers.
Feedback is for buyers to use to judge whether a seller is worth doing business with, since buyers primarily initiate transactions (aside from offers from sellers).
If you can't let everyone know that someone is a bad customer then feedback for the buyer is worthless!
Buyer feedback received from sellers may be worth very little, but I still see sellers asking how they can block zero feedback buyers; those sellers don't seem to think buyer feedback is entirely worthless.
In any case, this thread is about whether looking at seller feedback is useful to buyers, or whether buyers should ignore seller feedback ratings entirely and just rely on the money back guarantee.
chapeau-noir
·1 year agoI think a lot of it is market dependent, but will always be a mix because so much depends on human nature and buying habits.
bbcardzman
·1 year agoI don't think feedback matters much anymore although everyone likes 100% feedback on sellers and buyers. I use the feedback system to let me know if a buyer leaves negative feedback all the time for sellers. If so, then I cancel the order and block the buyer. This really has helped for bad buyers and controlling negative feedback. I just wish buyers would contact the seller before rushing to leave negative feedback so they could fix the problem right away. Unfortunately eBay doesn't really teach people how the eBay system works and how to use it before they buy something so they just do what they think is right even though it is not. If you are a good seller, shipper, ect. then your feedback will reflect that!
soh.maryl
·1 year agoWhen you cancel an order after reading the FB the buyer leaves for others, what do you use as your reason for cancelling?
adamcartwright
·1 year ago@bbcardzman
What reason do you give for canceling the order, and doesn't that affect your account?
bbcardzman
·1 year agoAnything I want and no it hasn't affected anything
fern*wood
·1 year agoIf you cancel often enough, I think you know you can't just use any reason without it affecting you.
soh.maryl
·1 year agoJust curious: What reason are you using when you cancel those orders?
squinkercat59
·1 year agoI think feedback absolutely matters. I won't buy from someone that has consistent negative feedback (late shipments, bad packaging, broken items, wrong items, misrepresented damage, etc). A few bad feedbacks here and there are to be expected, but some are way over the top. Some of the big booksellers, for example, have THOUSANDS of negatives, in a MONTH!!!! No way would I buy from someone like that, and go through the frustration of either having to return something, or having to buy another one from someone else because the first one I bought is unusable. Often, if I am buying a gift, there isn't time to get another one.
gloryglorygifts
·1 year agoI agree with you. It's one thing to see a neg that says never received as that is a postal issue, but to see comments about how a seller responds to messages and problems is another thing. I've seen some really crazy feedback and seller responses, especially from people that post on here and point it out.
soh.maryl
·1 year agoIn exactly what categories is "no returns" a wholly acceptable standard for customer service when/if a buyer opens an NAD case with eBay?
fbusoni
OP1 year agoPerhaps I was not sufficiently clear, as I am not at all suggesting that.
I have read many posts here from those who sell clothing, for example, who report that they have a "no returns" policy and that as a result, when buyers are informed that returns are no accepted, that is the end of the discussion.
(I have added to that last sentence -- which was mostly an afterthought anyway -- for clarity.)
PS: Any thoughts about the questions the posed by the original author?
soh.maryl
·1 year agoIf any buyer just accepts that "no returns" claim from the seller, it has to be a buyer who is totally unaware of the Money Back Guarantee, doesn't it? Otherwise, wouldn't a buyer be smart enough to realize that the "no returns" statement means nothing in face of the MBG?
fbusoni
OP1 year ago@soh.maryl
Good question... from what I have read here over the last year, especially as it pertains to remorse returns, it seems that that is not the case.
Perhaps someone who sells clothing can answer.
soh.maryl
·1 year agoYou understand that I'm not referring to remorse returns? That's an entirely different situation.
I am talking about this scenario: I sell you a very expensive bracelet, you pay, but, when you receive your package, it's a box of rocks and wadded up paper. You are perhaps new, so you perhaps contact me and tell me you want a refund. My answer? Na-na-na-na, in my listing, I stated "No Returns" so you can't return and I don't have to refund. You then come to these Boards and post, asking what to do now since your seller doesn't accept returns.
soh.maryl
·1 year agoWhy, specifically, clothing? Because it's one of the most saturated eBay categories?
farmalljr
·1 year agoNo returns works in NO category. Any buyer can get a return on ANY item here. Almost all buyers know "how it works" and will get their money back if so inclined.
Feedback only matters to the oldest users of the platform. Like some sellers who are convinced that 100% positive feedback is some badge of pride, some buyers think the same. Does it really make a big enough difference to honestly matter? I suppose only IF you are a seller who sells very few items in a month/year. I think your pictures and description sell your items way more than whatever your feedback is. As one who has been on this platform since it existed, nearly, I don't care much about a sellers feedback unless it's unusually bad. 90+% then who cares. I am more concerned about how long it takes you to ship, then some rando complaining about something stupid in your feedback.
You can see sellers who sells tons of stuff, who also have TONS of negative feedback and they still sell a ton of items every month. IF it matters to buyers (the neg feedback) it certainly is not affecting sales of those who move products.
squinkercat59
·1 year ago"You can see sellers who sells tons of stuff, who also have TONS of negative feedback and they still sell a ton of items every month. IF it matters to buyers (the neg feedback) it certainly is not affecting sales of those who move products."
I think these are the buyers that don't bother to even look at feedback, and are just eager to get their item at what they consider a cheap price. And then they are sorry. My husband was one of them, and ended up getting scr3wed one too many times (expensive sports cards that were bent, fake COAs, a Funko mailed in a paper envelope). He's more careful now.
farmalljr
·1 year agoI think buyers don't care about feedback because we know in this age of credit cards and processing companies like PayPal, we are protected against most bad things a seller might pull or screw up they make. We are no longer in the age we pay with cash, money orders and personal checks. It's worked out well for both buyer and seller in the payment aspect, but the seller is exposed to more risk, but it also thwarts many scammy sellers from stealing, even though the real issue today is buyer theft.
Small seller, new seller, old seller, large seller, I've experienced all of them pulling funny business and needing to get the bank involved at some point. I prefer small sellers because they tend to take better care of my items, pack them nicer, and are usually honest about what they are selling. No one likes wasting time with returns or filing cases, but the protection we have today is WAY WAY better then the days of cash and money orders. Sellers may disagree with that protection, but sellers are buyers too. Needs to be some better balance, but the heart of this post is about feedback and why it is or is not important. It just isn't anymore. Card protections and platform protections have made it a useless relic of selling and buying.
soh.maryl
·1 year agoAlthough I agree with your overall statement, I have to disagree with the idea that almost all buyers know how the MBG works. We see multiple posts here every day from buyers, even experienced ones, with remarks like "the seller states no returns" so they figure opening an NAD case would be fruitless. And also messages from sellers who seem to think "no returns" means they are immune when a buyer opens an NAD case.
farmalljr
·1 year agoI agree but we are talking the general consensus or bulk of people. Most all buyers are aware of the MBG and how it works. Not everyone, but most buyers. Just like very few people actually care about seller feedback even though there are a few people who do. The exception doesn't make the rule or even close to the majority of buyers and sellers.
Just like there are some sellers here that think buyers have some duty to contact the seller first if there is a problem, rather than filing a case or leaving undesirable feedback. It would be a nice courtesy but is not a requirement and I think the bulk of sellers realize it and get along with it. Again, a case of the exception not making the "rule".