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Do unpaid item buyer strikes block them from even doing BIN?
Just curious about something. When a buyer is blocked based on a seller's Preference settings:
-does that only block the buyer from offer/auction-derived sales (because those allow time to pay, and the buyer has a history of not paying) ..... or are they even blocked from doing a Buy It Now with immediate payment?
And if they ARE blocked from any version of buying, can they still see those sellers' listings? If so, then what happens when they try to buy -do they get a message saying "This seller won't let you" ?
60 comments
gurlcat
OP8 months ago@simply-the-best-for-you For future reference, if you are absent for days after a reply, it might be a better choice to just drop the subject. I had totally forgotten about this thread and wouldn't have cared if you just didn't reply. But to reply the way you did was just .... whatever.
Anyway, the actual question of this thread was already answered on page 2. -Buyers with too many strikes CANNOT purchase from the seller by any route, even Buy It Now, unless they can get the seller to lift them from purgatory. So I am going to request to have this thread closed.
simply-the-best-for-you
·8 months ago@gurlcat @slippinjimmy @jonathanbrightlight Hey guys, sorry to disappear & not answer, I was fine & then I wasn't LOL. Been sick for a few days. I was going to respond with exactly what Jimmy did. An accepted offer is NOT a sale & the item is still avl for sale. I see some people are saying that's not always the case & I truly don't know about that. That was always the case as far as I remember since the option became avl. If it's sometimes not the case, that would be news to me. However, I do not use BO's so I can only speak to what the policy supposedly is & I don't have personal experience using it except very occasionally.
@a_c_green I haven't seen ANYTHING on my list in years. I check every few months & I haven't had an entry there in eons. I ship to anywhere GSP ships. I'm almost positive BBL declines used to show up there, but it's been a VERY long time, so I guess I wouldn't stake my life on it.
gurlcat
OP8 months ago@simply-the-best-for-you or @slippinjimmy PLEASE make me an offer on this listing below for at least $12. (I'm using a specific listing because it doesn't have current watchers). You will have your offer immediately accepted, but don't pay obviously, just let me get screenshots to show you that it is indeed SOLD and unavailable to anyone else at that point.
Or .... you'll be proven right, and I'll be proven wrong! Either way I will cancel the transaction afterward.
Here is the listing. https://www.ebay.com/itm/127589332622
simply-the-best-for-you
·8 months ago@gurlcat So sorry, I've been sick & not on here much. IDK if anyone else volunteered, but I'm not comfortable doing this, esp as a Mentor b/c it can inadvertently result in an unintentional sale & AFAIK it's against the rules to buy something for test purposes. Unfortunately, many of my buyers have told me that they are unable to accept or make an offer without completing the purchase. It seems like some users can & others can't (even before the new setting for the seller to require payment), that eBay won't let them & I've never ID'd a pattern, so given that it could result in a sale, I'm not willing to take the risk on my acct.
That said, whoever posted the policy, I think it was Jimmy, that's what I have ALWAYS known to be the way it works. I've never heard anyone claim that it becomes unavailable for purchase except for you. Sorry I can't help.
gurlcat
OP8 months agoWe do buys to test things all the time here, no rules against it, our own business. If you are going to openly and publicly spit on my word that I would cancel the sale afterward, FINE. I know you just don't want to be proven wrong. And that is fine too.
There are plenty of sellers who's items are counted as 'Sold' and unavailable to others after accepting a buyer's offer. Otherwise, why would it have to be RELISTED if the buyer never pays? I am not about to start tagging other people in to back me up because this has gotten too ridiculous. I will remember this and just ignore anything you say from now on. You have sworn things were true based on 10+ years ago time and time again, and now I know for sure not to pay any mind to you.
LOL you probably don't even realize you have your settings switched 'on' to require immediate payment, that's why your buyers don't get any time. It's something that changed within just the past year or so, but again you just know how things used to be long ago.
simply-the-best-for-you
·8 months ago@gurlcat Whoa, hold up there. You totally misunderstood me. I absolutely do not doubt for a second that you would cancel the tx! You said you would & I absolutely believe you would. However I am not willing to take that risk with anyone b/c it IS a an account violation. I've never seen ANYONE do it. Except for years ago, when some people got in trouble for something along the same similar lines. There was no "spit on your word". I believed you.
I have NEVER in all my many years on the eBay boards through 3 different co's seen ANYONE do a test BUY. I myself have tested MANY features, both alone & with others & upon eBay's request at times. Tests that involve turning on options, creating listings, etc, sure, but NEVER a PURCHASE! It is absolutely against the rules & I've seen people get in trouble for similar things. Additionally, as a Mentor, I'm held to an even higher standard. To be clear though, I wouldn't do it if I wasn't a Mentor. I'm sure a few old timers here remember a few particular situations of people getting in trouble for something similar. I thought about suggesting that someone else try it, but because I have always known it to be against the rules, I decided against reccomending that anyone else do it, even though I want to know the answer as much as you do. In fact, the only reason I want to know is b/c I believe you that that's not how it's working for you!
As for being "proven" wrong, LOL, I don't care one way or the other. I'd be very curious to see the result. I have no inherent interest in how eBay chose to do it. So either way is fine with me, I like to learn if I'm wrong & since I don't do Offers except SIO's it's certainly possible. However, for the record, you have in 3 fairly recent threads told me in no uncertain terms that you don't believe me b/c you think I may be "misremembering" LOL, accused me of being outright wrong twice & in all 3 my answer was eventually proven to be correct in the answer I gave very early on. You can discount my knowledge all you want. Having been here since 96 gives me a lot of historical knowledge that many here simply don't have & they often come to interesting & frankly, wild conclusions about features b/c they don't have that historical knowledge. A lot of eBay features are very much related to the past & there are also constraints based on the past. I try to educate when I know the reasons behind changes or the situations involved. Additionally, as a Mentor, I sometimes have further knowledge. You don't have to believe what I post, but it is 100% against the rules to purchase with an ulterior motive like this (or used to be), I'm too sick to go looking for the policy right now & frankly it doesn't matter b/c & I would NEVER do it, regardless of whether it's a poster I don't know like yourself or one I've known for 20+ years. It had NOTHING to do with not believing that you would cancel the tx. It is MY choice to not risk my acct.
AFAIK it's ALWAYS been against the rules & is a risk to our accounts & in my case, to my Mentorship. I'm not willing to take that risk for anyone & yes, I can point to people (by ID) who have gotten into trouble for something similar in the past. And no, I'm not going to publish those ID's. It has nothing to do and I never "spit on your word". I fully believed you & still chose not to risk my account.
gurlcat
OP8 months agoAs you often say, "I didn't read all of that."
simply-the-best-for-you
·8 months agoI actually almost never say that. I usually read all the details & my favorite questions as a Mentor are the ones that delve deep.
Regardless, it wasn't really for you. You said I "spit on your word". If my character is called into question in a public forum, I will make it clear that I did not spit on your word or anyone else's. I had no reason to not believe you, but I am simply unwilling to risk my account doing something against eBay's rules regardless of who asked me to. Even if it had been a boardie I knew for 25 years, I would have declined. I have seen people get in trouble for similar things.
While @broto_64 is correct that the reason is not nefarious & I fully understand that it would have been for testing purposes, we all know how hard it can be to fight a Policy Violation, so I'm unwilling to risk one for anybody. Just like I'm unwilling to ever buy from one of my other accts to test something out, these are huge no-no's. I cannot speak to others making a choice to do so.
broto_64
·8 months agoThis is absolutely correct, a non-paying buyer will essentially "block" a listing's availability by taking it offline. I can attest to this because it is the reason I stopped using "Best Offer" listings (actually there is a setting that requires instant payment but you have to set auto-approve above a certain amount) so if it's manually approved then the listing has to be relisted if the buyer doesn't pay.
I am also quite familiar with test buys, made them myself, sometimes it's the only way to know for sure how something works out in reality because ebay loves to spin things in such a way that leaves it sounding it all wonderful and flowery but reality is hardly ever unicorns and rainbows.
And yes you do have to be careful with test buys but way I see things we're not doing it for the purpose of leveraging / gaining feedback or anything other than to test the function of a certain policy so that we know for ourselves how it actually works.
gurlcat
OP8 months ago@broto_64 Thank you so much for affirming that, I was starting to wonder if I was in a parallel universe or something. Thing is, I WISH my Best Offer functioned like Simply and Jimmy said! I wish a slowpoke payer or non-serious potential deadbeat couldn't hold my item hostage for up to 4 days, and instead have the item remain available to others, keep its Watchers, etc. But that has never been the case.
Also about purchasing experiments -yeah exactly like you said, we do them to check whether the features function as stated, or to figure out the details that aren't stated, because eBay often fails to lay out every kind of scenario in the feature descriptions.
It would be ridiculous if such tests were prohibited in the Community, because if anything the publicity of them all but guarantees honesty. I wouldn't agree to run a test with some newbie here, but what established regular would try to pull a scam or whatever in front of everybody? 😆
meme6253
·9 months agoIf they are blocked they can no longer buy or bid on your items, But they can still see them.
bbcardzman
·9 months agoI LOVE this feature and have used it FOREVER. Once you block someone they can see you great listings but when they try to buy or bid it says Seller is not accepting payment from you at this time!! I wish we could see the looks on their faces when they try to buy after doing something stupid!
gurlcat
OP9 months ago@bbcardzman I totally get that, believe me. But I would rather they just not be able to see my listings at all, because certain Type A personality freaks may just become so angered by seeing they are blocked that they will use another account to make the purchase anyway, and then maybe do something retaliatory like a bogus return, chargeback, negative feedback, etc.
I value my serenity over schadenfreude (if only slightly 😉).
broto_64
·9 months agoI'm no angel, I've been blocked on occasion and I find it irritating that I can click on the listing, get ready to buy and then be told NO! That to me is detrimental to buyer retention and I agree on the schadenfreude bit also I don't retaliate simply because it's too inconvenient AND could result in a ban (for creating alt accounts to avoid restrictions - even if not imposed by ebay directly per se) not to mention karma but not everyone cares about consequences and yes I believe it makes for a bad buying experience.
gurlcat
OP9 months agoThat's because you're a normal person, not a Type A freak like I was talking about. 😉
ten_o_nine
·9 months agoBlocked buyers can still see the seller’s listings. eBay does not hide listings from blocked users, it only prevents them from completing a transaction. If they attempt to buy, they will receive a red error message stating, "This seller is not accepting bids or offers from you" or similar explaining they do not meet the seller's requirements.
mamacassidy
·9 months agoI asked a similar question about what a blocked buyer sees in a post a while back. Apparently they can see the listings, and only find out if they try to buy something.
Wastingtime101 wrote:
"They will only know they are blocked if they attempt to purchase one of your items and see a message saying (paraphrased) the seller is not accepting purchases from them.
If they try to message you they will think you are ignoring them. On their end the messages will appear to go through but on your end you'll never know they sent a message because eBay blocks it."
I'm using their quote because I figure he/she knows more about the system than most of us 🙂
gurlcat
OP9 months ago@mamacassidy Thank you for conveying Wasting's info about what buyers see. But as far as contacting sellers ..... here we get in the weeds a bit. As if this stuff wasn't overly complicated already, buyer's ability to contact sellers depends on what kind of "blocked" they are:
slippinjimmy
·9 months agoWhen you are blocked by a seller for 2 or more non-payment strikes you can't bid, you can't buy from that seller. Format of the listing is irrelevant, a block is a block.
a_c_green
·9 months agoThe distinction we're talking about here is whether a BuyItNow that requires payment up front would be blocked by a seller's preferences for the number of Unpaid strikes in the past, assuming that their ID is not already on the seller's Blocked Buyer List. After all, a BIN with IPR narrows the payment options to Immediate Only, and at that point a history of Unpaids would not apply anyway.
If you're on the seller's BBL, you should be blocked regardless, but if you're paying immediately and your ID is not on the seller's BBL, then it presumably should not matter how many times you have not paid in the past.
gurlcat
OP9 months ago@a_c_green ^This I agree with 100%, and it's why I started this post. But I think slippinjimmy might have understood the distinction I was asking about clearly enough, and that his answer could be the unfortunate truth, that a blocked buyer can't even do a BIN with IPR.
One thing I sometimes forget is that not all sellers check-mark 'Require immediate payment' on their listings, so even a so-called "Buy It Now" can actually be a "Secure the item for now, but pay later" -same as if they had won it by auction or an accepted offer.
With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if eBay didn't want to fiddle so intricately with the programming, to disallow a blocked buyer from all the ways they could wait to pay, but allow just that one unique way, BIN/IPR. I would prefer they do that (I'd like full price immediate money from anybody, regardless of history!), but maybe eBay is fine with throwing the baby out with the bath water.
a_c_green
·9 months agoI can't think of an easy way to test this, but I don't think eBay would spend any development time trying to figure out how to let an unwanted buyer (i.e. one whose ID is already explicitly on the seller's BBL) find a way to make a purchase from that seller.
I would expect their programming to be accurate enough to allow a buyer who's blocked only on the basis of their own Unpaid history (i.e. blocked by a general seller requirement, not blocked by name on the seller's BBL) to still make a purchase when paying up front, but I don't know if it really is. Testing before releasing their software into Production is not their strong point (plus we don't even know if that is their intent). The principle is a little like paying cash because your credit card's maxed-out. Whoever is accepting your cash payment would neither know nor care about your inability to pay via credit card.
gurlcat
OP9 months ago@a_c_green Yep I agree 100%. Even though I'm not a programmer it really doesn't seem like too big of an ask, especially considering how mega-sophisticated they (allegedly) made the search algorithm!
But look how clear-as-mud so many policies are written. I mean right on that page, they don't differentiate between which kind of blocked a buyer would be for the contact preference to apply. And just the fact that the Block Settings section DOESN'T explicitly state whether BIN/IPR sales would be blocked by those ..... that's why I have "lowered expectations" of their ability to program a logical exception for that kind of sale. But maybe I'm being unfair there, since the people who author the pages are probably not the same ones who enter codes.
The closest I can find to the answer in the Help pages is this:
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/setting-buyer-requirements?id=4152&st=3&pos=4&query=Setting%20buyer%20requirements&intent=blocked%20buyers&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1060
I don't see any aseterisks, parentheses, or anything else regarding the word "buying." I do find the phrase "buying on" rather humorous though. 🤣
a_c_green
·9 months agoYes, most likely it originally read "prevent buyers from bidding on your items" back when most listings were auctions. It may be that someone very quickly did a global edit to change every occurrence of the word "bidding" to the phrase "bidding or buying," but didn't proofread the resulting alterations to be sure that they still made sense, or were even grammatically correct. I did technical documentation for many years, so, you know, Been There, Done That, Got the T-shirt. 😑
iamalwaysright
·9 months agoBtw, ever since I stopped doing auctions and have IPR on every listing I don't block any buyer who has a history of unpaid items anymore. Technically a buyer can have 10+ unpaid items per day and they'd still be allowed to buy from me. I don't think doing this has affected my business negatively.
gurlcat
OP9 months agoHow about a round of "would you rather" just for sh's and giggles?
Would you rather that both Block Settings-blocked buyers and BBL buyers can buy your items via BIN/IPR ... or that neither can?
Me: Not even a tough call. I'd say 'neither' just because there are some truly ghoulish monsters in my BBL, including ones who I absolutely wouldn't have been surprised if they did retaliatory purchase stuff to me. I really like having one place with steel bars and a padlock to which I have the only key.
I know, any of those people can create another account, if they don't already have one, or many. But some of my worst ones were also dumb as rocks and/or lazy, so if the steel cage stops at least those whose proclivities makes them unable/unwilling to pursue me with another account, it's worth it.
a_c_green
·9 months agoThey're not comparable, so this would not be an either/or decision, but one based on which restriction applies to the buyer. One with a history of Unpaids would still qualify for Immediate Payment Required; one who is listed by name on your BBL would not qualify to purchase at all.
A BBL listing overrules the others, which are just "preferences" by definition that a buyer may or may not meet.
iamalwaysright
·9 months agoYea as I was reading your post I kinda got what you were hinting at. Funny how I never thought of this in the past, but I agree. Ebay should have an additional "hybrid" block choice where you block a buyer from all purchases except for anything IPR. Because like you said, if you want to block a buyer because they are a chronic non-payer you would throw them into your hybrid list. But if you want to block a buyer because they are a chronic complainer and not as described returner, block them altogether with the current BBL.
I doubt ebay will do this because it will make whole "blocked buyers" topic more complicated for sellers to understand as it already is.
But yea, the notice that pops up for buyers says something like that. It doesn't straight out say the seller blocked you. I recall buyers showing me a screenshot of that notice before. But who knows if ebay changed the verbiage since then.
a_c_green
·9 months agoThat's how it works today. You can set a tight limit on how many Unpaids are allowable by a prospective buyer via your Buyer Management page: 2 Unpaids within the past 12 months. If you want to block a specific buyer for whatever reason (or no reason at all), just add their ID to your Blocked Buyer list, and you're done.
gurlcat
OP9 months agoSo you're saying buyers who are blocked only by unpaid settings (not being on a seller's BBL) can still buy that seller's BIN items at full price, paying immediately? But how do you know that?
a_c_green
·9 months agoWell, you're comparing two different payment processes here: in addition to verifying that the buyer isn't on the seller's BBL, a non-Immediate payment process will look at the buyer's Unpaid count and compare it to the seller preferences to see if they will be allowed to purchase without payment at that time (i.e. basically checking to see whether the buyer will be allowed to pull the seller's item off the market without actually paying for it first).
An Immediate Payment Required process will only do a basic check against the seller's BBL. Assuming that's clear, then the buyer can only claim the item by actually paying for it; otherwise it will stay on the market until someone else pays for it. The buyer's past record is not relevant to an IPR sale, so no processing time is going to be spent checking on it.
simply-the-best-for-you
·9 months ago@gurlcat In case you don't have your answer (I gotta go & no time to read the whole thread), YES, they are still Blocked from buying with IPR. I know b/c it's happened to me multiple times & a couple of times the buyer contacted me & I figured I'd put them on the exception list since it was IPR.
My only caveat is that it's been probably 4-5 years since it's happened. But that is how it used to work & I have no reason to think it's changed. Also, the message they get when they're blocked, while it doesn't come out & say you're blocked, makes it quite clear that you can't buy from that specific buyer, so they pretty much know, although they don't necessarily know why or if it was based on UPI's or BBL.
ETA - Oops, seller, not buyer. Makes it clear you can't buy from that specific SELLER.