Do not choose the wrong reason for cancel, eBay is monitoring

Posted 11 months ago·Last reply 11 months ago

57 comments

gloryglorygifts

·11 months ago

Owner3873 View listings

Earlier this week I wanted to cancel an order, for a bad address, I wasn't given the option. I think that there were only two and neither applied (out of stock and customer requested). The customer actually put the correct address in the feedback, but that was not an option!! I emailed the customer and told them they needed to cancel the order, change their address, and repurchase the item. So choosing either of the options I was offered would have been falsely reporting the cancellation. It wasn't my fault; it was the customer's.

I don't remember the last time that I had to cancel a sale for an address, but I seem to remember it being at option at one point. Imho, it should still be an option.

Thanks for the heads up!

gurlcat

·11 months ago

@gloryglorygifts wrote:
Earlier this week I wanted to cancel an order, for a bad address, I wasn't given the option. I think that there were only two and neither applied (out of stock and customer requested). The customer actually put the correct address in the feedback, but that was not an option!!

Slightly confusing: what do you mean by "the customer actually put the correct address in the feedback" ??

onlinecentral

·11 months ago

15305 View listings

The Manage Orders Awaiting Shipment screen displays the available quantity. When just a few are available, I count the merchandise on the shelf to avoid Out of Stock strikes from occurring in the future.

keraz-0

·11 months ago

505 View listings

I just had to cancel an order last week. My first. I could not find all the pieces to the lot in the order. One was missing. I looked everywhere!

I contacted the buyer, told them what was going on, and gave them the option of me cancelling the order, or sending the order and refunding a percentage due to the missing piece.

I waited all weekend for their response, but never got it. I had to have the item shipped on Monday, so I cancelled and refunded.

My thinking was, that cancelling was the least potentially damaging to my seller rating. Had I shipped, the buyer could have started a inad, and left a negative on top of it. Then I get 2 dings instead of 1.

Funnily enough, the buyer sent a response a couple of hours later, saying that sending the order minus the missing piece was ok. Too late however, since he was refunded and the order was cancelled.

gurlcat

·11 months ago

@keraz-0 wrote:

My thinking was, that cancelling was the least potentially damaging to my seller rating. Had I shipped, the buyer could have started a inad, and left a negative on top of it. Then I get 2 dings instead of 1.

For future reference, your thinking wasn't completely accurate. A buyer absolutely can give negative feedback for a canceled order -you can find those negs pretty easily on feedback pages, especially cases where the buyer won an auction and the seller was disappointed by the amount of their winning bid, so they just cancelled and refunded. Another common one is where the seller is obviously dropshipping from Amazon or box stores and doesn't keep track of those items' stock levels, so if they're 'Out' then the fake eBay seller (what I call dropshippers) cannot fulfill the eBay buyer's order. What's extra frustrating about those is, for whatever reason there is often a delay of multiple days before the fake seller does the cancellation. So if the buyer really needed the item soon, they're back to where they started before waiting those days, for nothing.

In a case like yours, the buyer said their preference would have been to receive the partial order/partial refund, but luckily for you, they didn't neg you because they could see you had tried to give them a choice but they didn't respond soon enough. But if they were a jerk they could have negged you and eBay would not remove it.

So here are the REAL harms that you had to weigh on Monday:
*(What you did) Cancel for OOS and definitely get a Performance defect which is a very HEAVY one; the tolerance is extremely low. And possibly get a neg.
*Go ahead and ship, then send the buyer another message (or a note in the package), apologizing profusely and offering them a choice of either $____ partial refund or a free return. If they did file an INAD it's only a Service Metrics strike, which you can get a lot more of than OOS cancellations before they harm your account. And possibly a neg.

So that's 1 guaranteed severe defect and a possible neg, versus 1 possible minor strike and a possible neg. By sending the item you very possibly would have no forms of 'ding' at all, especially if you did that "profuse apology" thing. Buyers can be extremely forgiving if you reveal your humanity, because no human is perfect; we're all vulnerable. Use a phrase like "I'm so embarrassed" and only a cartoon villain would want to embarrass you even more by negging you.

mam98031

·11 months ago

Owner / Operator19714 View listings

@keraz-0 wrote:
I just had to cancel an order last week. My first. I could not find all the pieces to the lot in the order. One was missing. I looked everywhere!
I contacted the buyer, told them what was going on, and gave them the option of me cancelling the order, or sending the order and refunding a percentage due to the missing piece.
I waited all weekend for their response, but never got it. I had to have the item shipped on Monday, so I cancelled and refunded.
My thinking was, that cancelling was the least potentially damaging to my seller rating. Had I shipped, the buyer could have started a inad, and left a negative on top of it. Then I get 2 dings instead of 1.
Funnily enough, the buyer sent a response a couple of hours later, saying that sending the order minus the missing piece was ok. Too late however, since he was refunded and the order was cancelled.

What reason did you select when you filed the cancellation?

keraz-0

·11 months ago

505 View listings

The reason was out of stock. It technically was, as one piece was missing. And, it was my fault. Should have kept track of my inventory better.

mam98031

·11 months ago

Owner / Operator19714 View listings

@keraz-0 wrote:
The reason was out of stock. It technically was, as one piece was missing. And, it was my fault. Should have kept track of my inventory better.

Thank you for your honesty. That is exactly what you needed to do. We all make inventory mistakes from time to time. It is how you resolve the issue that tells that you are a very good seller with great customer service.

inhawaii

·11 months ago

Ebay's most handsome seller.4976 View listings

SELLER: Dear customer, Sorry. the pink widget you purchased is out of stock. I can send you a black one instead or do you want to cancel the order?

BUYER: Cancel the order.

SELLER CANCELS ORDER.

REASON: BUYER REQUESTED TO CANCEL.

Violation or not?

slippinjimmy

·11 months ago

4 View listings

@inhawaii

In my opinion that is abuse of the cancellation process. In legal circles it would be considered entrapment.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

·11 months ago

3637 View listings

@inhawaii No one here knows just how ebay handles any of this.

But my guess: IF ebay looked at this , the decision would be that this is NOT a buyer requested cancellation situation, as the buyer did not INITIATE the conversation. This is an out of stock situation, as the seller clearly states.

jonathanbrightlight

·11 months ago

0 View listings

@inhawaii wrote:
SELLER: Dear customer, Sorry. the pink widget you purchased is out of stock. I can send you a black one instead or do you want to cancel the order?

BUYER: Cancel the order.

SELLER CANCELS ORDER.
REASON: BUYER REQUESTED TO CANCEL.

Violation or not?

I very much doubt I could track it down, but I seem to remember one of the Blues answering that question a long time ago, and the answer I remember was that it is not a valid buyer-initiated cancellation if the seller asked first. That would be considered abuse of the cancellation process, like @slippinjimmy said.

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago

@jonathanbrightlight wrote:
@inhawaii wrote:
SELLER: Dear customer, Sorry. the pink widget you purchased is out of stock. I can send you a black one instead or do you want to cancel the order?

BUYER: Cancel the order.

SELLER CANCELS ORDER.
REASON: BUYER REQUESTED TO CANCEL.

Violation or not?
I very much doubt I could track it down, but I seem to remember one of the Blues answering that question a long time ago, and the answer I remember was that it is not a valid buyer-initiated cancellation if the seller asked first. That would be considered abuse of the cancellation process, like @slippinjimmy said.

I vaguely remember that post.

Anyway I try to avoid cancelling, I don't offer to cancel, I might offer a refund, but I try to send them something gratis so they don't have a bad opinion of the transaction (and how eBay works). Other sellers don't do stuff like that, and I've had customers return even after I've messed up their order.

powell-collectibles

·11 months ago

JBLBFF, Mixed Bag Guy, AND Unofficial Mentor to the Stars2349 View listings

@sin-n-dex wrote:
@jonathanbrightlight wrote:
@inhawaii wrote:
SELLER: Dear customer, Sorry. the pink widget you purchased is out of stock. I can send you a black one instead or do you want to cancel the order?

BUYER: Cancel the order.

SELLER CANCELS ORDER.
REASON: BUYER REQUESTED TO CANCEL.

Violation or not?
I very much doubt I could track it down, but I seem to remember one of the Blues answering that question a long time ago, and the answer I remember was that it is not a valid buyer-initiated cancellation if the seller asked first. That would be considered abuse of the cancellation process, like @slippinjimmy said.
I vaguely remember that post.

Anyway I try to avoid cancelling, I don't offer to cancel, I might offer a refund, but I try to send them something gratis so they don't have a bad opinion of the transaction (and how eBay works). Other sellers don't do stuff like that, and I've had customers return even after I've messed up their order.

C.

100% â€“ thatâ€™s how I do it. I never let a buyer be a transaction worse than he expected. If I have to refund, Iâ€™m gonna give that buyer something for free. That does a few things â€“ makes the buyer happy, increases the odds that the buyer will come back and buy something again, gives me a little self punishment for making a mistake. I have about 800 listings â€“ I do have an occasional issue.

mam98031

·11 months ago

Owner / Operator19714 View listings

@jonathanbrightlight wrote:
@inhawaii wrote:
SELLER: Dear customer, Sorry. the pink widget you purchased is out of stock. I can send you a black one instead or do you want to cancel the order?

BUYER: Cancel the order.

SELLER CANCELS ORDER.
REASON: BUYER REQUESTED TO CANCEL.

Violation or not?
I very much doubt I could track it down, but I seem to remember one of the Blues answering that question a long time ago, and the answer I remember was that it is not a valid buyer-initiated cancellation if the seller asked first. That would be considered abuse of the cancellation process, like @slippinjimmy said.

That is a violation because the Seller asked the buyer if they wanted to cancel. Your memory is correct.

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago

@inhawaii wrote:
SELLER: Dear customer, Sorry. the pink widget you purchased is out of stock. I can send you a black one instead or do you want to cancel the order?

BUYER: Cancel the order.

SELLER CANCELS ORDER.
REASON: BUYER REQUESTED TO CANCEL.

Violation or not?

I don't offer the option to cancel. I would say "I can't ship the white widget, I have a black one instead, and I'll also refund your order because you aren't receiving the item you paid for, but I don't want you to go away empty handed so here's a black widget for you gratis."

There, problem solved, no violation. (And I refund, but don't cancel the order).

inhawaii

·11 months ago

Ebay's most handsome seller.4976 View listings

@sin-n-dex wrote:
@inhawaii wrote:
SELLER: Dear customer, Sorry. the pink widget you purchased is out of stock. I can send you a black one instead or do you want to cancel the order?

BUYER: Cancel the order.

SELLER CANCELS ORDER.
REASON: BUYER REQUESTED TO CANCEL.

Violation or not?
I don't offer the option to cancel. I would say "I can't ship the white widget, I have a black one instead, and I'll also refund your order because you aren't receiving the item you paid for, but I don't want you to go away empty handed so here's a black widget for you gratis."

There, problem solved, no violation. (And I refund, but don't cancel the order).

C.

Great customer service!

The next time I need a widget, I'm buying from you. ðŸ˜‰

relicpeddler

·11 months ago

5958 View listings

I had to cancel 4 or 5 in the past year but always chose the correct reason. "Lost or Damaged" But it's normally because I messed up quantities when listing. I tend to use the list similar option a lot and sometimes forget to change the quantity from the previous listing.

fern*wood

·11 months ago

10585 View listings

@relicpeddler wrote:
I had to cancel 4 or 5 in the past year but always chose the correct reason. "Lost or Damaged" But it's normally because I messed up quantities when listing. I tend to use the list similar option a lot and sometimes forget to change the quantity from the previous listing.

It's a good thing you sell enough to handle that many cancellations. My account sure wouldn't. I had one last year and held my breath that no other problem came up before it dropped off.

gurlcat

·11 months ago

Here's what I am wondering. This part where it says, "This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence." -Did it make only the determination or did that happen because it was it looking for determinations to make? Last I knew of, the legitimacy of cancellations could only be flagged by the buyer. So is that still the case or are all cancellations being scrutinized for legitimacy?

Also there's a big difference between automation and artificial intelligence, so it's unsettling to see eBay saying one "or" the other is doing stuff here that can have real "teeth" results on sellers' accounts.

luckythewinner

·11 months ago

1162 View listings

@gurlcat wrote:
Last I knew of, the legitimacy of cancellations could only be flagged by the buyer. So is that still the case or are all cancellations being scrutinized for legitimacy?

You only offered two options:

only flagged by a buyer
all cancellations are scrutinized

Those are not the only two possibilities.

I can imagine a scenario where eBay was only scrutinizing one type of cancellation, for instance cancellations for "buyer requested".

For example, automation could detect a "buyer requested" cancellation where there were no messages from the buyer to the seller.

And a natural language model could determine if a buyer's last message to the seller said "no, I do not want to cancel".

gurlcat

·11 months ago

@luckythewinner wrote:
@gurlcat wrote:
Last I knew of, the legitimacy of cancellations could only be flagged by the buyer. So is that still the case or are all cancellations being scrutinized for legitimacy?
You only offered two options:
only flagged by a buyer
all cancellations are scrutinized
Those are not the only two possibilities.

I can imagine a scenario where eBay was only scrutinizing one type of cancellation, for instance cancellations for "buyer requested".

For example, automation could detect a "buyer requested" cancellation where there were no messages from the buyer to the seller.

And a natural language model could determine if a buyer's last message to the seller said "no, I do not want to cancel".

I didn't see this reply til now. That's a pretty good hypothesis.

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago

@gurlcat wrote:
Here's what I am wondering. This part where it says, "This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence." -Did it make only the determination or did that happen because it was it looking for determinations to make? Last I knew of, the legitimacy of cancellations could only be flagged by the buyer. So is that still the case or are all cancellations being scrutinized for legitimacy?

Also there's a big difference between automation and artificial intelligence, so it's unsettling to see eBay saying one "or" the other is doing stuff here that can have real "teeth" results on sellers' accounts.

I have no idea... but when I learn something interesting (especially if it's on a subject that's talked about a lot here), I try to share. It's not like most people here would have ever received a message like that since it's pretty understood if you want to stay, you don't cancel, and buyers get upset when you say they asked to cancel and they didn't actually do that.

gurlcat

·11 months ago

@sin-n-dex wrote:
when I learn something interesting (especially if it's on a subject that's talked about a lot here), I try to share. It's not like most people here would have ever received a message like that since it's pretty understood if you want to stay, you don't cancel, and buyers get upset when you say they asked to cancel and they didn't actually do that.

Who knows how many lurkers there are though? I know of at least a couple names who've been 'liking' for years without ever having made a single post or reply. And even among those who "understand" about cancelling, who knows what they may do without talking about about it here. ðŸ¤£

So all in all, VERY interesting and possibly helpful share! But can you say anything more about the circumstances where you found that eBay message posted? Like did the OP say what kind of cancellation reason they chose? Were they admitting they were dishonest and eBay busted them, or did they think they chose an honest reason and eBay falsely flagged them? Any details you can give might be huge, because if they're automating this now, it could be glitchy like everything else eBay tries (at least in the beginning).

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago

@gurlcat wrote:

So all in all, VERY interesting and possibly helpful share! But can you say anything more about the circumstances where you found that eBay message posted? Like did the OP say what kind of cancellation reason they chose? Were they admitting they were dishonest and eBay busted them, or did they think they chose an honest reason and eBay falsely flagged them? Any details you can give might be huge, because if they're automating this now, it could be glitchy like everything else eBay tries (at least in the beginning).

It's in the Canadian seller's forum and recent (I posted this the same day I read the thread), but I don't want to doxx the poster by naming them (they are using a posting ID anyway). They explained what happened in their thread, but to not quote them wrong or misunderstand the post I think it's better to just go there and read it.

babyers88

·11 months ago

It's not that ebay is monitoring, in this example it is likely that someone selected buyer requested to cancel and the buyer did not request the cancellation and then the buyer reported the seller as such.

also it is likely this wasn't just one instance you do get a couple before they start taking action.

There are sellers that have multiple accounts and list the same items across all of there accounts to get a leg up on visibility, but as you can see that can backfire due to the cancellation policy

I personally don't think it is fair to get a ding for just 1 out of stock/damaged, things happen in reality like theft or it got dropped or fell over or a mouse chewed on it in storage, all kinds of things can happen that are sometimes out of our control.

but it is what it is.....

gurlcat

·11 months ago

@babyers88 wrote:

I personally don't think it is fair to get a ding for just 1 out of stock/damaged, things happen in reality like theft or it got dropped or fell over or a mouse chewed on it in storage, all kinds of things can happen that are sometimes out of our control.

True, and that's why 1 ding alone doesn't do anything to your account. But it doesn't take many either, because if you have many it means you are too clumsy or need to call an exterminator, LOL.

babyers88

·11 months ago

I don't even want 1, lol I was just using examples of things that "can" happen. If something crops up I usually offer a solution to the buyer such as maybe they would be interested in something else or something else and some refund, etc or even a no cost upgrade to something better. Then at least I made some effort to rectify the situation. Because things do happen.... hard as we try to avoid it.

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago

@babyers88 wrote:
I don't even want 1, lol I was just using examples of things that "can" happen. If something crops up I usually offer a solution to the buyer such as maybe they would be interested in something else or something else and some refund, etc or even a no cost upgrade to something better. Then at least I made some effort to rectify the situation. Because things do happen.... hard as we try to avoid it.

TBH, I can get enough dings from random things that are my fault that I would fight any non-deserved ding (even if it's just one).

Thankfully I almost never have to cancel, I've been able to fill the order with another like item that's the same, or something better. Even if I had needed to refund, I try to make sure the buyer doesn't go away empty handed (which is probably how I've avoided bad feedback when I haven't been able to properly fill an order). With 9K in items, the odd cancellation comes with the territory.

12345jamesstamps

·11 months ago

I had one like that a while back.

Gave a refund because one stamp had a small tear...and I got a 'out of stock' 'ding' from AI.

The 'ding' was after item was marked shipped when I gave a refund.

I did not mark it as a cancellation or out of stock item.

I notice the photo(s) after it got shipped and didn't want buyer to get mad or give me a bad feedback.

Lesson learned...no more Mr. Nice Guy.

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago

@12345jamesstamps wrote:
I had one like that a while back.
Gave a refund because one stamp had a small tear...and I got a 'out of stock' 'ding' from AI.
The 'ding' was after item was marked shipped when I gave a refund.
I did not mark it as a cancellation or out of stock item.
I notice the photo(s) after it got shipped and didn't want buyer to get mad or give me a bad feedback.
Lesson learned...no more Mr. Nice Guy.

I remember that thread. I presume you just got a "ding" on your metrics and did not have a policy violation email? I am presuming the OP of the thread I took this from got both a ding and policy violation (hence the 3 day suspension warning). Sounds like in your case they just gave you a ding because you refunded without providing a reason (not providing the wrong reason).

12345jamesstamps

·11 months ago

It was a 'ding' only on my metrics.

I listed the reason 'item not as described' but got it as 'out of stock' by eBay.

I always gave refunds for combined shipping without problem and thought it was the right reason.

Oh well...

tobaccocardyahoo

·11 months ago

5542 View listings

@12345jamesstamps wrote:
I had one like that a while back.
Gave a refund because one stamp had a small tear...and I got a 'out of stock' 'ding' from AI.
The 'ding' was after item was marked shipped when I gave a refund.
I did not mark it as a cancellation or out of stock item.
I notice the photo(s) after it got shipped and didn't want buyer to get mad or give me a bad feedback.
Lesson learned...no more Mr. Nice Guy.

I refunded for a similar reason after I printed the label through Ebay.

If you refund without an scan by the carrier it is an out of stock ding.

If you do not use a tracked shipping method, refunding can be dangerous to your seller level.

gurlcat

·11 months ago

What would have happened if he had refunded all but 1 cent of what the buyer paid?

slippinjimmy

·11 months ago

4 View listings

@gurlcat wrote:
What would have happened if he had refunded all but 1 cent of what the buyer paid?

When eBay brought in the policy I seem to recall that any refund over 75% would trigger the eyes of eBay.

The only interesting thing about that notice is that it's telling the seller that it won't count.....THIS time.

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago

@gurlcat wrote:
What would have happened if he had refunded all but 1 cent of what the buyer paid?

I see that as gaming the system and I think many buyers would understand that to be the case.

If I was annoyed at a seller and they refunded me all but one cent to avoid the ding, I'd be making a complaint. (Wouldn't leave bad FB, but would quietly complain to eBay that the seller is avoiding a defect by playing games). I would never refund all by one cent, buyers are smart, they'll figure out something is up if you do that.

gurlcat

·11 months ago

@sin-n-dex wrote:
@gurlcat wrote:
What would have happened if he had refunded all but 1 cent of what the buyer paid?
I see that as gaming the system and I think many buyers would understand that to be the case.

If I was annoyed at a seller and they refunded me all but one cent to avoid the ding, I'd be making a complaint. (Wouldn't leave bad FB, but would quietly complain to eBay that the seller is avoiding a defect by playing games). I would never refund all by one cent, buyers are smart, they'll figure out something is up if you do that.

C.

If you go back in the replies I was asking about jamesstamp's situation, where he actually SHIPPED the item, and the only reason it was treated as an OOS cancellation by eBay was because it wasn't a tracked shipment (stamps).
So I don't know about you, but if I were the buyer in that scenario, I'd be pretty tickled to get an unexpected full refund (minus one cent). ðŸ˜

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago

@tobaccocardyahoo wrote:
@12345jamesstamps wrote:
I had one like that a while back.
Gave a refund because one stamp had a small tear...and I got a 'out of stock' 'ding' from AI.
The 'ding' was after item was marked shipped when I gave a refund.
I did not mark it as a cancellation or out of stock item.
I notice the photo(s) after it got shipped and didn't want buyer to get mad or give me a bad feedback.
Lesson learned...no more Mr. Nice Guy.

I refunded for a similar reason after I printed the label through Ebay.

If you refund without an scan by the carrier it is an out of stock ding.

If you do not use a tracked shipping method, refunding can be dangerous to your seller level.

That's generally why I try to fill an order, even if I have to refund on the order. I have noticed if you ship *something* and get a carrier scan, you don't get an OOS ding for refunding.

12345jamesstamps

·11 months ago

I got an order to ship to Canada today.

I will wait and see what buyer saids after the email I sent.

I also got a buyer who has their address in Korean.

That one I sent out 2 emails in two days.

Cancel with a problem with the address...that would be what I would use?

But I don't use tracking for these items since they are under 10 bucks.

Was hoping for buyer to ask for a cancel request first.

The hiccup yesterday with the glitch about photos and the red banner that everyone got.

Between midnight and 4:51 PM I had no sales...then when it got fixed the sold items came pouring in..

I was the first to announce that glitch yesterday.

Did it affect my sales?...yes and no....all the sales that came in after it got fixed was a blessing.

I thought I was banned from selling...LOL...no sales from midnight to almost 5 PM was so out of the ordinary...considering I been having good days lately.

USA to UK an item took only 8 days...

USA to Australia an item took 7 weeks.

USA to Japan is 2 weeks.

USA to France...item is missing but buyer is currently still waiting.

It's a guessing game with these tariffs.

babyers88

·11 months ago

for the address in korean copy & paste it in google translate, print the label in english and attach the korean language address on it as well. Problem solved I have done this more than a couple times with 100% success

12345jamesstamps

·11 months ago

This creates a problem afterwards if there is a problem after it's shipped.

If buyer speaks no English and emails me in Korean I have to do this and that to try to solve a situation.

Quite a bit of my time.

I have solved problems in the past with google with French and Spanish buyers who use no English and send me emails. That is easy.

I decided to block China...for similar reasons...everything in Chinese from the address to emails.

I had a buyer who I contested her photos were not the same as my photos of items send...in Chinese.

I had a buyer who I contested I was not the sender of photos of items I sent them...in Chinese.

A problem can occur after it's been shipped.

I am just a one-kid operation here...not a group of employees like others here who have help.

babyers88

·11 months ago

well it's a solution I have used without having to cancel, I just worked around the language barrier by converting the address, figured putting it in english would get it going there and the native language address on the packaging would get it to the buyer. easy-peasy.

even the ones I get where the address is all doubled up or tripled up, I correct it and send it. and technically it is going to the address on file, just not a messed up one.

as for messages the ones that drive me batty are these foreigners that have to send 20 messages to ask one question

hello
friend
good morning
i wanted to ask a question
could you help me
i hope you can help me
i want to buy this item
this item 434676565856
can you tell me
is it working

gaahhhhhhhh!!!!!

12345jamesstamps

·11 months ago

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-standards-policy?id=4347#defects

Partial refunds are not dangerous without tracking. I do combine shipping refunds every week without tracking.

I made a mistake refunding the total amount I think...if I refunded all but .01 cent I wonder if artificial intelligence would understand that situation as saying out of stock...LOL

luckythewinner

·11 months ago

1162 View listings

@12345jamesstamps wrote:
I had one like that a while back.
Gave a refund because one stamp had a small tear...and I got a 'out of stock' 'ding' from AI.
The 'ding' was after item was marked shipped when I gave a refund.
I did not mark it as a cancellation or out of stock item.
I notice the photo(s) after it got shipped and didn't want buyer to get mad or give me a bad feedback.
Lesson learned...no more Mr. Nice Guy.

You were trying to avoid negative feedback by your own admission. That is not being Mr. Nice Guy.

There really isn't a thing called an "out of stock" defect; that is just the shorthand people use to describe it. According to their policy, eBay counts two types of defects:

The seller cancels the order unexpectedly
The buyer reports an issue, but the seller doesn't resolve it

There are several ways to get a "unexpected cancellation" defect, and one of them is indeed an "I am out of stock" cancellation. But other ways include things like "the item is no longer available" and "the item was damaged" (I'm not sure of the exact wording, been a long time).

A full refund without a dispute by the buyer counts as "unexpected cancellation" defect because it is an unexpected cancellation. Otherwise everyone would use that to avoid "unexpected cancellation" defect and defeat the purpose of the defect.

In your title you state:
"Do not choose the wrong reason for cancel, eBay is monitoring"

So what is the reason you would have chosen instead that would have prevented a defect but not violated eBay policy?

gurlcat

·11 months ago

@luckythewinner wrote:
@12345jamesstamps wrote:
I had one like that a while back.
Gave a refund because one stamp had a small tear...and I got a 'out of stock' 'ding' from AI.
The 'ding' was after item was marked shipped when I gave a refund.
I did not mark it as a cancellation or out of stock item.
I notice the photo(s) after it got shipped and didn't want buyer to get mad or give me a bad feedback.
Lesson learned...no more Mr. Nice Guy.
You were trying to avoid negative feedback by your own admission. That is not being Mr. Nice Guy.

But did you miss the part where he said he SHIPPED the item? And the small tear was on "one stamp" (out of multiple apparently). The reason the automation even considered it a "cancellation" at all was because he ships stamps with stamps, no tracking number. But what he actually did is give a preemptive 100% refund. X number of perfect stamps plus one damaged, for free.

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago

@luckythewinner wrote:

In your title you state:
"Do not choose the wrong reason for cancel, eBay is monitoring"
So what is the reason you would have chosen instead that would have prevented a defect but not violated eBay policy

You quoted @12345jamesstamps up until this, and this bit was mine because I'm the OP.

I wasn't the one who cancelled the order, someone in the eBay Canada forum did and shared this with us, I'm just sharing it here since it comes up in posts every now and again.

TBH I don't remember the last time I had to cancel... I had two of the same item the last time something happened and I sent the other one because it was the same in the same condition (but let the buyer know so they could inspect the replacement and be happy with it, and I offered to refund the whole order and they keep the replacement if they're not happy with it). This was a repeat buyer, I wasn't worried about being taken advantage of by doing this.

12345jamesstamps

·11 months ago

I shipped the items.

After items shipped...I notice in my photos there was a tiny tear.

I decided to refund the buyer, and notified buyer, buyers got items, said it was OK and gave positive feedback because buyer was happy with freebies and getting a refund without asking.

I in essence gave free items to buyer who didn't care about a small tear in one item.

To me, this was a Mr. Nice Guy in my books.

I could have waited for buyer to email me...could have waited for buyer to maybe want to return for a refund.

I could have given buyer a hassle like some sellers here on this platform for a return and such.

Did I give the buyer a hassle like some here do? No...

It's called solving a problem before one arrives...Business 101

fern*wood

·11 months ago

10585 View listings

Did you just issue a refund after marking it shipped or refund by cancelling the transaction?

It seems something in your process caused the defect.

12345jamesstamps

·11 months ago

It was shipped out about 2 days and then...gave a refund after noticing photos where an item had a small tear .

Clinked on 'item not as described'...and got that 'out of stock' instead.

Now I wonder if I refunded all but .01 cent would it be the same thing...LOL

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago

@12345jamesstamps wrote:
I shipped the items.
After items shipped...I notice in my photos there was a tiny tear.
I decided to refund the buyer, and notified buyer, buyers got items, said it was OK and gave positive feedback because buyer was happy with freebies and getting a refund without asking.
I in essence gave free items to buyer who didn't care about a small tear in one item.
To me, this was a Mr. Nice Guy in my books.
I could have waited for buyer to email me...could have waited for buyer to maybe want to return for a refund.
I could have given buyer a hassle like some sellers here on this platform for a return and such.
Did I give the buyer a hassle like some here do? No...
It's called solving a problem before one arrives...Business 101

There's something I call the "disappointment factor" which is how a buyer feels after purchasing something and getting excited about it, and then finding major or minor fault with it when it arrives. If you notify the buyer of the problem right away, they don't have a lot of energy invested in looking forward to their item, but after waiting a week or two and getting the package, there is a certain level of excitement as they check out their item(s) and a big let down to see it wasn't what they expected.

The disappointment factor runs very high when someone is buying something with a sentimental attachment. I get very nervous about sales when I get a message from the buyer telling me how much they were looking forward to receiving the item (for whatever sentimental reason... I've gotten "my grandfather is the guy on this token" to "I had one when i was a kid", and "my family member did the design for this coin/token"). It makes me nervous because I know if something goes wrong with the sale the disappointment factor can go through the roof and the disappointment factor is one of the leading causes for negative FB.

So that being said, the one and only neutral I got that stuck was from someone experiencing a high case of the disappointment factor for winning an item at a much lower price than similar items on eBay, and then having it get lost in the mail. The refund did not cut the mustard for fixing the problem. The buyer also waited a month before telling me the thing still hadn't arrived and I discovered it got lost. I tried my best to track it down, but something strange happened and my shipper lost it.

gurlcat

·11 months ago

@12345jamesstamps wrote:
I shipped the items.
After items shipped...I notice in my photos there was a tiny tear.
I decided to refund the buyer

Wait, what?? You mean the photos in your listing ... that the buyer could see before deciding to buy? Why did you think you needed to refund at all?

spreadlovelikefire

·11 months ago

33916 View listings

I would have contacted eBay about that because you weren't out of stock if you shipped the item.

gurlcat

·11 months ago

@spreadlovelikefire wrote:
I would have contacted eBay about that because you weren't out of stock if you shipped the item.

The problem is he couldn't prove he shipped it, only marked it "shipped" (he just uses stamps to ship his stamps, no label with tracking).

gurlcat

·11 months ago

@sin-n-dex wrote:

Shared with me... It was my sale that got cancelled (just passing this along).

Did you mean to say it wasn't your sale?

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago

@gurlcat wrote:
@sin-n-dex wrote:

Shared with me... It was my sale that got cancelled (just passing this along).

Did you mean to say it wasn't your sale?

Um, yeah, that's what I meant. Only I probably would have said "was not" instead of "wasn't". I'm tired, it's been a long day, and I keep typing things wrong (in the other forum I wrote customers instead of customs).

The original message was in the eBay Canada forum by a regular poster there.

Unavailable member

·11 months ago

Their profile isn't available.

I have never cancelled a transaction that a buyer didnâ€™t request.

sin-n-dex

OP11 months ago