Did I Violate eBay’s Policy by Refunding Fraudulent Buyer Instead of canceling order?
I recently had a buyer with zero feedback who was using a fraudulent name and address that raised red flags. Upon further inspection, I discovered they were using a fake name and an address from an abandoned oil refinery. Based on this, I refunded the buyer immediately to prevent any potential fraud.
However, eBay is now claiming that I 'canceled' the order, even though I never did. I only refunded the buyer, which I thought was the correct step to protect eBay's integrity and my business from this fraudulent transaction. Now, I’ve received a defect for issuing a refund, and I’m confused about how I could have handled this better.
Has anyone experienced something similar? Is issuing a refund in such situations considered a 'cancellation' in eBay’s system? How can I avoid getting penalized for trying to protect my business?
gone.c-33
·1 year agoSince no one else seems to know about this scam that’s been around for pretty much as long as mail fraud. We used to get it a lot in the ticketing business when mailing physical tickets was still a thing:
Scammers will have items sent to an abandoned dwelling, and watch for the postie to make delivery. They use those addresses so they do not get traced for making purchases with stolen cards.
mam98031
·1 year agoNot everything is a "scam". It is as @albertabrightalberta stated. As long as the seller ships to the address the buyer gave them when they paid and tracking shows it was delivered or a delivery attempt was made, the seller is protected. So yes and old scam for sure, one that is not longer a threat to sellers as long as sellers follow the rules Ebay has set forth to be protected.
umccars
·1 year agoHas the customer reached out since you cancelled? Just curious.
pickapaper
·1 year ago@thehiddenrealm wrote: "... I check because I due my due diligence as a good eBay seller to make sure I don’t get scammed I have sold 30 items in 3 months of selling I’ve had over 15 full blown scammers so sorry for trying to protect myself from scammers"
You have had "over 15 full blown" scammers in three months of selling? Did they actually scam you out of money or were they just buyers who made suspicious offers or something else that you had doubts about?
gloryglorygifts
·1 year agoI'm a little confused here. Did you investigate your customer's address and name or did ebay tell you there was a problem with the address when you went to print the label? If it is the first instance, don't do that. First of all you will drive yourself crazy and second there is no need to do that. Ebay gives you an address, and you ship to that address. It is not a good idea to dox your customers. They pay, you ship. Always use tracking to protect yourself as a seller.
Unfortunately, you earned that ding by refunding without a reason. Chalk it up to a learning experience. Welcome and good luck to you on here!
the_fancy_fox
·1 year agodon’t worry about the defect, if you’re a good seller, it’ll roll off eventually. But you should have used problem with the buyers address. Next time you know.
fern*wood
·1 year agoSince I can be trusting to a fault, what is a fake name and how is that determined? I rarely even look at names and will ship to Porky Pig if I get an order. I also don't recall issuing a refund without needing to fill out a reason prompt--even a couple dollars in shipping requires a reason.
jonathanbrightlight
·1 year ago@fern*wood
I was curious because I thought I remember the same thing, so I just checked, and indeed it's impossible to issue a refund without selecting a reason. There is a nebulous "Other adjustment/refund" option, but the dropdown for reason requires a selection to complete the process.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@thehiddenrealm
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but based on what I have read here over the last year, it seems that a best practice under these circumstances would be to just ship the item to the address that eBay provides.
It's often impossible to know why buyers use phony names (many do in fact from what I've seen over the years, perhaps in an effort to conceal their identity). And more importantly, an address may or may not be what Google suggests, as Google may be a year or two or three behind in its imaging or database updates.
Ship and then let USPS (or whatever carrier you opt to use) handle the rest. In a worst case scenario, the item will be returned to you.
It's usually a good idea to insure the item under these circumstances... should the shipping carrier lose track of the the item on its way to a strange place, you will be able to file a claim for the loss.
itsjustasprain
·1 year agoI am wondering what kind of fraud you believed you were seeing here. After all - even a scammer wants to actually get your item. There is no sense in providing an undeliverable address with the payment as the package will simply end up getting returned to you. (The recipient name does not matter.)
You have seller protection against an Item Not Received claim as long as tracking shows delivery to the address you received with the payment.
By refunding the buyer when a refund had not been requested you were basically cancelling the order.
thehiddenrealm
OP1 year agoYour going to burn me at the stake for trying to protect myself I’m a new seller don’t need to be so negative for simply making a mistake hope you feel better have a wonderful joyful life
itsjustasprain
·1 year agoNo stake burning here. My only point was that there was no need to go Googling the address in the first place because the USPS will verify it at the time you purchase the label. I was trying to clarify what it was you viewed as suspicious.
thehiddenrealm
OP1 year agoA abandoned oil refinery is definitely suspicious it’s on the market why would the buyer send the item to an abandoned building and I check because I due my due diligence as a good eBay seller to make sure I don’t get scammed I have sold 30 items in 3 months of selling I’ve had over 15 full blown scammers so sorry for trying to protect myself from scammers I’m going to go I have to be up at 6am and it’s very late you can message me directly if you want to talk more I’m always down for good conversation
funfactorychannel
·1 year agoYou didn't do wrong in protecting yourself but doesn't mean you aren't ding for defect. Its just how the system is.
Since you sell in a high risk category, you have to be more sensible in when you should cancel. If the amount isn't high just take the risk if its too high, then don't.. But don't go too paranoid over losing, its a cost of business.
But half of your sold item is scammed, that is too high for any seller. Somethings not right.
luckythewinner
·1 year agoIf it is on the market, it is definitely not "abandoned".
If it is not operating as a refinery, it could still have an office with a mailing address.
And a security guard or manager who works at the property might receive mail there.
FWIW I have sold for 25 years and have 6 selling accounts and have never Googled a buyer address in my life.
a_c_green
·1 year ago...and I am wondering why anyone, including scammers, would want to make a purchase that would be shipped to an undeliverable address. If that is a scam, how would it work? If the post office cannot deliver it, it goes back to the seller.
theteamsetguy
·1 year ago@thehiddenrealm ,
In many cases the owner of the refinery will hire security guards to keep vandals and theives out of the property.
Maybe one of the security guards ordered something from you and wanted it sent to their work address.
bennotbill
·1 year agoI've had that a few times. With the address looking like a derelict site, but I assume they had a night watchman/security guards hut as my items were delivered with no problems.
Sometimes it's better not to look too closely.
itsjustasprain
·1 year agoPlus - again - it is either deliverable at the address provided with the payment - or it is not deliverable in which case it comes back to the seller.
An address cannot be 'suspicious' by itself and any Item Not Received claim is determined by whether the package shows as Delivered to the City and ZIP of the Ship-To: address. There is simply no reason to cancel and refund based on what the address 'looks like' if viewed on-line. All that matters to Ebay and to the USPS is whether the package can be delivered there or not.
thehiddenrealm
OP1 year agoNobody’s going to hire security for a abandoned building that’s listed for sale
soh.maryl
·1 year agoAs I asked before, and I am really curious, how did you find out that the buyer's name was bogus?
I get the part about the address, but the name?
And what point is there in having their purchase delivered to an address not their own?
If it's undeliverable, the delivery service will send it back to the original sender, although that takes some time to happen.
frodobagginskennedy
·1 year agoyou are wrong about not hiring guards. My fist real boyfriend was a police officer in Baltimore City. He worked side jobs all the time in abandoned places that were on the market and new construction places.
theteamsetguy
·1 year ago@thehiddenrealm ,
It depends. Many companies are afraid of potential liability. If trespassers get in the abandoned refinery and dies while playing around. Guess who gets sued and loses millions of dollars?
I'd be shocked if a complex as large as a abandoned refinery did not have 24 hour security.
I'm sorry I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.
kensgiftshop
·1 year agoMaybe the buyer works there during the day as a guard?
inhawaii
·1 year agoYou refunded a buyer because you though he was suspicious???
Why on Earth would you do that?
FYI ebay doesn't issue defects for refunding someone.
thehiddenrealm
OP1 year agoUnfortunately eBay did I have all screen shots and recordings of everything I do for proof for instances such as this
mam98031
·1 year ago@inhawaii
Yes they do. Depending on the reason selected. Some sellers were trying to get around creating a defect for themselves by NOT filing for a cancellation but just going directly to refunding a buyer. Ebay got wise to this finally and closed the gap. Ebay now considers the reason for the refund in determining if a defect is going to be issued to the seller.
This is relatively new. I'm not sure when that was. I too learned it by Surprise. Not that I did it to myself, but in the effort to helping another member.
@thehiddenrealm is incorrect. They had to of selected a reason for the refund, they just likely forgot that step.
Refund the buyer
Refund reason
Select a reason
Seller cancelled / Out of stock
Buyer cancelled
Item not received
Buyer return
Item not as described
Other adjustment
Shipping discount
Those are the options we have currently when we go to issue a refund.
Had the OP issued a Cancellation for problem with the shipping address as they assumed it to be an issue, they would have avoided this issue all together.
1786davycrockett
·1 year ago@thehiddenrealm
Did you cancel, using the reason "problem with buyer's address," or did you just issue a refund without using a reason?
If the latter, eBay may have judged that you had canceled the order, because you were "out of stock."
So what reason did you list for the canceled order?
thehiddenrealm
OP1 year agoI issued a full refund without using a reason immediately after realizing the buyer was using a fraudulent name and address from a abandoned oil refinery
1786davycrockett
·1 year ago@thehiddenrealm
"I issued a full refund without using a reason immediately after realizing the buyer was using a fraudulent name and address from a abandoned oil refinery"
Then there's your problem in a nutshell -- you refunded without providing a reason.
On your "Manage paid and shipped orders" page, just to the right of the item which was ordered, is a circle with three dots inside. If you click on that, and scroll down to "Cancel order," you will be asked by eBay your reason for canceling the order, and you should have clicked on "Issue with buyer's shipping address."
Since you didn't provide a reason, eBay determined that your item was "out of stock," and dinged your account.
Had you provided the reason "Issue with buyer's shipping address," eBay would not have dinged you.
Too many more dings, and eBay may suspend your account -- so watch it!
thehiddenrealm
OP1 year agoThank you for your valuable insight this is my first defect so I definitely will be using your amazing advice from now on thank you so much and have an amazing day you are an amazing seller and I hope one day I’m as good as you are peace and love from one ebayer to another!
1786davycrockett
·1 year ago@thehiddenrealm
Your defect will eventually disappear; but you definitely don't want any more!
Good luck.
thehiddenrealm
OP1 year agoThank and eBay started holding my funds again until 3 days after delivery I hope it doesn’t last another 30 days like when I was a new seller and good luck to you also. Energy and persistence conquer all things." - Benjamin Franklin
gurlcat
·1 year agoYou should mark the Best Answer to reduce the amount of new replies you'll get tomorrow when people see this post and think it is still unresolved. Plus why not give Davy official credit. 😉
yuzuha
·1 year agoDo NOT do this. The blues have made it very clear that the only valid uses of a cancellation for an issue with the buyer's address are either when the buyer has contacted you to inform you that they made an error with their shipping address OR when trying to print a label generates an error saying the address is invalid. Anything else and the buyer can report you to eBay for cancelling fraudulently, which will get you a ding on your account just like an OOS cancellation.
gurlcat
·1 year agoOnly on the unlikely chance that the buyer knows it's a reportable action.
And the alternative reason choices are a guaranteed ding, so .........
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoI think what @yuzuha was suggesting is that choosing "issue with buyers shipping address" does not solve the problem and just adds another possible defect/ding. The OP @thehiddenrealm made a mistake by refunding them and having them make another mistake to cover for the original is not solving the problem. Mistakes happen and I think the OP understands that so what can they do to prevent a defect next time.
The alternative would be to ship the item as most of us suggest at times, reach out to the buyer (before refund) to clarify with them (maybe the buyer has an explanation) or reach out to the eBay Facebook customer service group (before refunding) to document and ask for advice. It is ok to cancel a transaction if a seller feels uncomfortable with the sale but understands how a defect will hurt their account.
@thehiddenrealm I am not doubting your research (i vet certain buyers as well) and wanting to protect yourself from being scammed. Protecting yourself and learning from your mistakes will make you a better eBayer. You will be fine and as long as you keep this from occurring regularly, it will not be an issue. 1 defect will not hurt you. Just keep it at 1.
-Good luck
albertabrightalberta
·1 year agoWhy are you suggesting that @thehiddenrealm lie about the reason for the cancellation? The OP doesn't know whether it's a valid address or not.
What the OP knows is that the buyer paid and ebay told them to ship the item to that address. As long as tracking shows delivery or attempted delivery, the seller is protected against INR.
Suggesting that sellers cancel and lie about the reason because they don't want to sell to newbies is irresponsible and wrong.
thehiddenrealm
OP1 year agoI never listed a reason I never canceled the order I issued a full refund immediately after I don’t even have the option to cancel if I wanted to because eBay says no cancellation required buyer has been given full refund
soh.maryl
·1 year agoOr eBay have judged that the OP was doing an end run around eBay in order to avoid a final value fee.
Am interested in the process by which the OP discovered the fraudulent name and address. I get the address part, but how you intuit a fraudulent buyer name?