Delivered in June, leaves feedback, tracking says delivered in August, buyer said not received
This is odd, item was delivered end of June, buyer left positive feedback. Now mid August, buyer says tracking shows it was delivered 3 days ago and he hasn't received it. Can tracking be manipulated somehow? Why did buyer leave feedback in June? Why didn't buyer speak up sooner, instead of waiting 6 weeks to say where is it, 3 days after tracking says it was delivered?
Tracking shows it never left my town for 6 weeks. Makes no sense. I follow every shipment until delivered. I'd have noticed that this was never getting shipping updates.
Has anyone ever heard of such a thing?
63 comments
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoHere's my theory.
1. Buyer made purchase in June, received item and left positive feedback for seller.
2. Without looking at tracking, seller @maubrn assumed it showed delivery.
This next part is speculation on my part, so @maubrn , please tell me if this is what happened.
3. WIthin the last few days, the seller was looking at the transaction and saw delivery in August. Knowing that he'd shipped the item and received feedback 2 months ago, he contacted the buyer to ask (or verify) that they received it. (This is something sellers should NEVER do -- never contact a buyer to ask whether they received an item!)
4. At this point, the buyer looked at the tracking and realized there wasn't a delivery scan and attempted to scam the seller into issuing a refund.
At this point, about 45 days past the EDD, it's too late for the buyer to win INR (through ebay) so the seller isn't obligated to issue a refund (even if the buyer really didn't get it).
robbie31415
·2 years agoI could accept your theory if the only issue was missing a delivery scan.
However, the entire tracking is highly irregular.
Going purely based on feedback left. Do you know how many times buyers leave wrong feedback. "Coffee maker works great" when I sell them a snorkel set.
marnotom!
·2 years agoThe difficulty with your theory, @albertabrightalberta, is that there is a delivery scan for the item from August 13th.
I don’t think the item—at least the item originating with the OP—was delivered in June and there is an acknowledgment of a “delayed†shipment in the tracking history to support that.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoJust as there were delivery scans for the voided labels several months ago from the threads I referenced in this post.
Those voided labels had no activity until were shown as "delivered" months after they were voided. And when the activity started, it was in Metro NY, just as with this OP's item.
maubrn
OP2 years agoMystery solved: it was delivered June 28th, the problem is I accidently used the voided label so in the eBay system it didn't show up as delivered until August 13th when scammers used the unvoided label I meant to use to do their Metro, NY scam thing- free shipping on unused labels they somehow are able to find. The buyer received the 8/13 notification of a delivery, so inquired. I sent the buyer screenshots of the "voided" label's tracking obtained on the USPS site of the delivery on 6/28.
maubrn
OP2 years agoI didn't reach out to the buyer to ask if he got it. In his action he stated he never got it. Said it was reported as delivered, it wasn't, and that he'd heard nothing for 3 days. I asked for clarification, "what's going on here?" I guess I'll never know. He's gone silent.
I was hoping to get input on whether any sellers had their item fall into a black hole for 6 weeks with no tracking history. That's where the curiosity as to whether tracking can be manipulated happened. I wasn't worried about having to refund.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoI'd say it's far more likely the buyer received the delivery confirmation email from eBay when the item was scanned delivered on Aug 13th and since the buyer did not receive a package on the 13th they contacted the seller.
It's possible this is an opportunist buyer (or simply a confused buyer) that did receive the item back in June, but they're jumping on the August delivery scan update.
What I can say is the tracking appears to be hijacked and used for fraud based on the time gap and the METRO NY scan. It's the same thing we saw earlier this year as linked in @albertabrightalberta 's first post above. Neither buyer nor seller are responsible for that fraud, but the new scans are certainly creating confusion and a problem for the seller.
Scratch that question. I can see an INR claim was filed from one of the screenshots above. You should win the claim since there's tracking confirming delivery @maubrn , assuming the buyer is located in the same zip as the new delivery scan.
maubrn
OP2 years agoThank you so much for what you wrote! This is the first I heard of hijacked scans. Who does it and what is there to gain? A post office worker? What is there to gain in doing that? Would I find more about it by searching in the community? It does cause confusion. You got it right wasting time, that's how it happened. So do you think the buyer did receive it back in June? I'll always wonder! Maybe he had to say he ordered multiple items to cover for trying to be opportunistic, and didn't want to say anything more on whether he got it or not for the same reason?
I need to learn more about this tracking hijacking. The eBay agent said there was no way to manipulate tracking, I guess he's wrong. He was American.
eBay mentioned UPS Ground, maybe eBay made a deal with them, I'm thinking of trying it. Ground Advantage is slower than first class was, most of the time. Maybe ups tracking will be better.
Thanks, best answer! I appreciate it.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoScroll up to post 31 and read those links posted by albertabrightalberta. I'm using the term hijacked, but basically this is a situation where someone or a group of someones (probably overseas hackers) get ahold of tracking numbers and I don't know what specifically happens from there, but they're somehow using that tracking for their own fraud and scams. I think they're physically shipping packages from METRO NY with that tracking. I've seen similar issues with UPS, too.
Buyer left you FB back in June and never contacted you with an issue - that tells me they most likely did receive the item back in June otherwise they would have filed a claim much sooner. Like I said, either they are honest and confused by the new tracking scans or they are an opportunist trying to get a refund because they know something funky is going on with tracking.
Just curious @maubrn :
1. Did you buy this label through eBay or through another shipping provider?
2. Did you void any labels or is that the tracking you used to ship the original item?
3. I know the buyer left FB in June - do you recall checking tracking back then to see if it had a delivered status?
maubrn
OP2 years agoI am inept at navigating this community set up, and I am a slow learner, so I suspect I have missed many replies. I'll try to go find them.
You're are right in the money!! Yes I printed that label on eBay, and YES a label got voided. I weighed someone else's item. I was just speaking with an agent a week ago as to why the USPS denied my refund request on the voided label. And on the label that was used to deliver it, it didn't say the usual verbage (delivered?Completed?) it said something odd. Maybe that phone call with the agent had something to do with the buyer getting a delivered notification on the 13th? The timeline matches.
Does the vulnerability happen on a voided label? The non voided one was the hijacked one though.
I can't remember what you said after those 2 questions. I'll check later have to get some things shipped. Thanks, it would be very interesting to know how these crooks get the numbers and utilize them for profit!
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoThis confirms what I posted in my reply 31. Except that now, you're experience isn't "similar" to what we saw happening with voided labels but is IDENTICAL! (@maubrn - did you request a credit for the voided label at the time you purchased it? If so, you would have received a credit about 15 days after the void and it would show in your ebay. But there's no email or communication that the credit was issued.)
After you purchased the label to replace the voided on, did you re-input the new tracking number into the order? IIRC, the original (voided) number will also show there.
Then when delivery was "shown" in August, you would have received a message from ebay notifying you of the charge (for use of a voided label).
I stand by my opinion that this is the work of a rogue USPS employee in the Metro NY distribution center.
maubrn
OP2 years agoThat's what I have been wondering! I usually check out the solids to make sure they all say delivered. But I remember being perplexed as to why it went to NY. Now I'm unsure when I noticed it went to NY. I may have stopped looking for "delivered" once I get feedback, I just can't remember.
Do you think the tracking scans can be removed after delivery, or anytime, and a whole new tracking history put in it's place?? Maybe doing a screenshot of the scan history upon delivery would be wise, if legit histories can be removed and replaced. ?
maubrn
OP2 years agoAha! The scammers use voided labels, right? That's why the USPS denied my refund! How the heck do they know a label was voided?
mam98031
·2 years agoKeep in mind that it is always in a sellers best interest to be aware of the current scams going on around us so we can keep our eyes open. But don't allow that information make you think every transactions is going to be problematic. It will drive you crazy
Stay informed but don't over react.
maubrn
OP2 years agoI had no idea that tracking scans could be manipulated and the eBay rep (an American no less) told me they cannot. But the rep was wrong. So is reading the community forum the best or only way to stay informed about the scams?
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoUPS is considerably more expensive than USPS and in my experience, I haven't found GA to be any slower than FC.
marnotom!
·2 years agoKeep in mind that it’s very likely that it’s now more than thirty days from the last estimated delivery date, so a case should be tossed out on that basis.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoDisregard.
marnotom!
·2 years agoThat's not how I'm reading the information on the Money Back Guarantee Policy Page, though:
My interpretation of the info on the second row is that the timeframe for filing an INR ("reporting an issue") starts at the estimated delivery date. Which only makes sense. As @mam98031 suggests, how can a buyer file a successful INR once the tracking shows delivery on the actual delivery date? (Assuming the tracking shows delivery to the correct address or ZIP code.)
wastingtime101
·2 years agoYep, you're correct @marnotom! . Sorry about that. Total brain lapse on my end. In fact, I just gave out that info you posted a few days ago to someone - the screenshot is still on my desktop as I haven't deleted it yet. 😆
mam98031
·2 years agoThat is just another reason it will likely be found in the seller's favor. But top of the list of reasons would be the tracking shows delivered.
marnotom!
·2 years ago@maubrn, the buyer’s last message in the part of the exchange you posted contains a pretty clear claim by them that they haven’t received the item and they’re wondering about what can be done in this situation. I’m confused by your postings about receiving no responses to your queries to the buyer about not receiving the item.
Given that the buyer coincidentally got in touch with you when the tracking confirmed the item’s delivery plus the “soft-pedalled†way the buyer is communicating their concerns, my gut feeling is that they left feedback for the wrong seller, they received the item on Tuesday, and they’re hoping for some sort of compensation for its delayed arrival.
Unless the buyer returns from the dead a second time and/or you’ve already made some sort of promise to them that you haven’t told us about, I suggest you just let the matter drop.
maubrn
OP2 years agoI'm letting it drop. I was hoping to gain insight as to whether anyone had experienced tracking like that. Guess not.
marnotom!
·2 years agoGiven that there's no evidence that the item actually received a delivery scan in June and you're just speculating that it did based on the buyer's feedback and your general practices, that's probably why. Sorry.
Postscript: Stop tracking your items' progress to the buyer. If there's a problem, the buyer should let you know.
rschissler
·2 years agoWhen are you going to contact USPS and file a claim?
marnotom!
·2 years agoA claim for what? The item shows as delivered.
robbie31415
·2 years agoDelivered though doesn't void claims.
A help ticket asking the USPS to verify GPS of delivery could help determine if a claim is needed.
marnotom!
·2 years agoMy understanding is that without a help ticket along the lines of what you describe, USPS won't entertain a non-delivery claim for a shipment that has a delivery scan, but your point is taken.
mam98031
·2 years agoThis was explained earlier in the thread. USPS knows exactly where they delivered the package and how much it weighed. To find the truth you need to contact USPS.
You do this on threads and posters that are trying to help you have to explain things over and over. Why? But you are consistent, I'll give you that.
marnotom!
·2 years ago@maubrn, I'm only seeing one screenshot of partial tracking history for the item on your post and nothing for dialogue with your buyer.
maubrn
OP2 years agoThere should be a following reply after that one where I discovered how to include 4 photos in one reply.
maubrn
OP2 years agoI am posting 4 screenshots again, I hope they post. Two odd things: it went to N.Y. then finally to GA. But why is there no tracking saying it left my post office, it went from label created to going to NY 6 weeks later. ???
 
 
 
 
marnotom!
·2 years agoAre you just going by the buyer's feedback as an indication that the item was delivered in June? You don't actually say that the tracking originally indicated this. For grins and giggles, have you tried checking the tracking on a third party site? I recommend Parcelsapp.
Just out of curiosity, does the feedback left by your buyer seem to be specific to your item? There have been instances where buyers have left feedback for the wrong sale.
maubrn
OP2 years agoNever heard of that site, I'll check it out. Three reasons I guess contributed to why I thought it was delivered. 1) buyer left feedback on the date it would have arrived. 2) my P O has never failed to send out an item I mailed by 6 pm the same evening. 3) buyer never said "where's the item?" 4) I usually follow every shipment until it's delivered. Maybe I stopped looking once FB was left (?)
Would there have been a red warning in the eBay system over an item that fell out of the tracking system for 6 weeks?
marnotom!
·2 years agoI'm going to guess that you stopped checking the tracking once you received feedback for the sale.
Quite frankly, if you don't mind my soapboxing for a moment, I don't see the point of slavishly checking tracking information. It gives sellers and especially buyers the illusion that they have more control over the shipment than they do and doesn't do anything to improve the item's transit. In most cases, the only tracking scan that matters is the delivery scan. In most cases, whatever happens between the point of shipment and the point of delivery isn't nearly as important as receiving the item in the stated condition within the timeframe stated on the listing page.
Back to your situation, your buyer commented that they purchased several of the same item, so I think there's some merit to my hypothesis that their feedback was intended for a different seller.
No. My understanding is that eBay's tracking information is basically just data dumps from USPS or whatever other carrier is recognized by eBay's system. It doesn't try to interpret the information in any way. Any sort of recognition in the tracking of the item's late arrival is coming from USPS, not eBay.
maubrn
OP2 years agoIt would be nice to know if he received them but he never answered me.
mam98031
·2 years agoWhat?!?!?! You posted your emails to and from the buyer. On the 16th, the buyer clearly told you they had not received the item. Why do you need them to tell you this again?
maubrn
OP2 years agoI don't seem to be getting my replies via email. I sold it June 24th, shipped it June 24th, buyer left feedback back around June 30th, happy with it. THEN August 16th buyer says PO says delivered, tracking shows delivered, but buyer says wasn't.
I'll attach tracking info. It's a mystery that there is no tracking updates for 6 weeks, from the time I created a label until it suddenly arrives in the destination state. My post office always sends the items out the day I mail them. It's inconceivable that it has no history for 6 weeks.
 
mam98031
·2 years ago@maubrn
What you posted of the tracking entries, does NOT show it was delivered. Did you not post the entire tracking entries?
maubrn
OP2 years agoYes when I discovered how to post multiple photos in the same reply, see the next reply I posted, it's all there.
maubrn
OP2 years agoYou could run the # thru usps tracking as well
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoInteresting.......This tracking that picks up after weeks of inactivity re-starts in the metro-NY facility.
It's oddly similar to cases we saw several months ago in which voided labels from November/December 2023 were resurrected months later and sellers were back-charged. The location in which the tracking restarted was Metro NY disctribution center.
My guess at the time and what I still believe is that they have a rogue USPS employee.
These are 2 threads.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping/I-m-being-charged-by-USPS-for-voided-shipping-label-dating-from/m-p/34337157#M472420
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping/USPS-back-charge-New-on-on-me/m-p/34345140#M472838
My guess is that somehow, an employee is getting access to tracking that was either voided or not scanned as delivered and reincarnating tracking. (Sellers who were backcharged for the voided labels ended up getting refunded for those charges and USPS never admitted any wrongdoing on their end.)
albertabrightalberta
·2 years ago@maubrn
Please post the tracking number.
maubrn
OP2 years agoYes I just posted all the tracking info and some dialogue with the buyer as a reply to my original post.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoI will say a buyer gets that MBG 30 days from estimated date of arrival. If the timeline has passed for a MBG there's not much to worry about. Always respond to open claims of course.
Your timeline is a little confusing.
I have had buyers open an item not received after more than 90 days...it is allowed by eBay.
None of these buyers ever got that refund due to the expired MBG.
And I have had buyers do a credit card chargeback after 160 days on eBay...it is allowed...I fought that one and won.
maubrn
OP2 years agoThanks, I just posted the tracking info and some dialogue with the buyer as a reply to my op
maubrn
OP2 years agoI'm glad you won that chargeback.
fbusoni
·2 years agoItem was delivered end of June. Yet it did not leave your town for 6 weeks.
So you mailed it in mid-April?
I'm confused by the timeline. Am I missing something?
mam98031
·2 years agoIt is a bit confusing to be sure. I think the OP is also confused by the timeline. The buyer left feedback in June according to the OP saying they received the item.
Now the buyer is saying they didn't receive the item and the tracking info has significantly changed.
That is how I read what they wrote. Whether that is correct, I have no idea. The OP needs to do some research and then come back and tell us more if any of us might be able to help them.
maubrn
OP2 years agoI just posted the tracking info and some dialogue with the buyer after I received the NR notice a day or two ago. Posted as a reply to my post.
maubrn
OP2 years agoOops left helpful in error meant to hit reply. I'll post the tracking in a comment. I don't receive these answers in my emails for some reason, I just saw a reply today for the first time
maubrn
OP2 years agoI just now posted the tracking info as a reply to my post. Bought June 24, mailed June 24, feedback left 6/30, no tracking history for 6 weeks until delivered a few days ago, buyer says never got it even though it was delivered. 🤔
maubrn
OP2 years agoIt got a tracking # and mailed on 6/24, then there are no tracking updates for 6 weeks, then it shows up in NY and eventually arrives in GA on 8/13. Ever heard of that? Buyer won't answer if they got it.
mam98031
·2 years agoYou don't need to keep repeating this. You have posted the tracking. Everyone should be able to see it.
Not sure what you expect the buyer to say to you. They have already told you a couple days ago that they haven't received the item. Don't spam your buyer with emails. That isn't helpful at all.
beulah85
·2 years agoThis is indeed a very strange situation. Tracking information can be manipulated, but ordinary buyers generally do not have this ability. If there is indeed a problem, you can complain to eBay.
There is a system error or human manipulation that causes inaccurate tracking information.
The buyer is intentionally defrauding and trying to get compensation through false complaints.
There may be a third party interfering with the normal transaction and logistics process.
mam98031
·2 years ago@beulah85
Tracking information can be manipulated, but ordinary buyers generally do not have this ability.
Please explain this in more detail. How would a buyer be able to manipulate a carrier's tracking info? How would the manipulate it on the Ebay site?
If there is indeed a problem, you can complain to eBay.
There isn't anything Ebay can do to help the seller.
There is a system error or human manipulation that causes inaccurate tracking information.
The buyer is intentionally defrauding and trying to get compensation through false complaints.
There may be a third party interfering with the normal transaction and logistics process.
It is unlikely there is a conspiracy going on against the OP. Again, please explain how the buyer would be getting to the Carrier's tracking system to fraudulently change the data?
maubrn
OP2 years agoI'm very confused with this. It's a first that there is no tracking history from the time the label was created for 6 weeks. Then it went to NY instead of GA. Then buyer says he didn't get it even though it says delivered. ( But feedback was left about the time it would have arrived at the end of June)
maubrn
OP2 years agoI asked an American eBay agent if tracking can be manipulated by a USPS employee and he said no. This is a very weird case. I do watch my shipments like a hawk until I see the nice green letters "delivered". Do you think this is a case of manipulation and attempt to get $?
mam98031
·2 years agoHave you filed a Missing Mail report on the Package, if is was USPS. This would be the first step.
"Can tracking be manipulated somehow? " Yes by the carrier.
Have you click on the tracking number IN EBAY. Sometimes the tracking seen in Ebay is slightly different than it is on the carrier site. Not sure why, but I've seen it.
What does the buyer say about why they left feedback?
maubrn
OP2 years agoEnclosed is all the convo between the buyer and myself (screenshot). He's not really answering me if he got them. Just saying he ordered multiple pairs. And says usps is bad. I don't get anything about this case.
I will file that report with the USPS you mentioned.
I was thinking of posting a new convo about opinions on UPS Ground vs USPS Ground. I think that USPS Ground is often about 2 days later than USPS First Class was and I'm not happy with it. I see eBay may have made a deal with UPS Ground
 
for eBay shipping.
mam98031
·2 years agoI read it, you posted it earlier.
There isn't a lot we can do to help you with this. You've been selling long enough and had lots of transactions, you should know how to contact USPS and see if they can give you more information on the delivery of the item. None of us here can do that for you.
Is the buyer asking for a refund? If they aren't, stop trying to communicate with them and just leave them alone. If they email you asking you for their money back or something, then you may need to do something.