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De Minimis news
Just watched an interview with a government official (unfortunately did not catch his name). According to what I gather, the De Minimis exception ($800) is being removed from goods from China (and apparently ONLY China). Additionally he referenced changes in the postal rules so that China will no longer have the cheapie shipping charges. That includes Amazon shipping from a Chinese warehouse instead of a local warehouse.
DISCLAIMER: He is a politician and his lips are moving.
Your mileage may vary.
A little further research brought up this:
79 comments
jg.mason
·1 year agoMy apologizes, I didn't realize a little criticism would lead to all this.
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoThis was released yesterday by the administration.
da6170
·1 year agoAI generated
lux.ra_14
·1 year agoShort version ...
Reputable economists: Trump's tariffs are ill-conceived and harmful to the US and economies around the world.
Random Trump fans: The tariffs are great and will pay off, just you wait and see, some day, I think.
antverpiastamps
·1 year agoMaybe this provides some additional insight in what's going to happen or what may happen:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/21/2025-01074/trade-and-national-security-actions-and-low-value-shipments
As stated there: This document proposes amendments to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) regulations pertaining to the administrative exemption for certain low-value shipments not exceeding $800.
It's from January 25th but as far as I can see it provides a realistic scenario for the future
kh-shakhib
·1 year agoHi everyone,
This discussion has gotten a bit off topic. Please bring the discussion back to subject established in the original post.
Thank you.
kh-cathy
·1 year agoHi everyone,
This discussion has gotten a bit heated. Please remember that, while it is fine to disagree with others, discussion should always remain friendly and respectful as required by the Community Guidelines.
Thank you for your cooperation.
onlinecentral
·1 year agoI challenge everyone to post news articles of importers proclaiming, "My foreign supplier lowered their wholesale cost to me by 25%. That enables me to continue charging my American consumer the same original price."
12345jamesstamps
·1 year agoI think the big point for eBayers here is the nightmare to come on 'shipping delays'.
This will affect every shipping means and create havoc.
The delays in receiving an item could be huge...or even not receiving the item.
And just because one only ships domestically...there might still be delays.
gurlcat
·1 year agoCan you explain why you think this?
12345jamesstamps
·1 year agoIt usually takes a while to get everyone on the same page...of all countries and all companies and all employees.
Shipping regulations...incoming and outgoing...with the tariffs.
Do we think everyone in shipping companies are going to know what's allowed and what not allowed with the tariffs?
And 3rd party shippers...that's another issue.
I kinda see a pile up of packages sitting at hubs while everyone gets on the same page...sort to speak.
Sellers who walk into a post office, FedEx Office, UPS Office to ship an item out to another country...do you think they are going to know everything...same with other countries of sellers shipping items to buyers in the USA.
mr_lincoln
·1 year ago@12345jamesstamps
One of the other challenges will be the marketplaces (online sales venues) figuring out how to add the tariffs that apply, how to collect them and where to send them. Sort of like what they did for Sales Tax.
The actual packages and shipping labels will have to have some indication that the tariffs have been paid so as not to delay the package as it enters the country.
whatmorefabric
·1 year agoThe thing to watch is that the Commerce department has until May 10th to report whether or not it can be implemented.
This is the same hook that they used to end it the first time.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@whatmorefabric
Indeed... have you ever noticed the fine print (a loophole through which one could drive an 18-wheeler) at the end of each of these cockamamie "executive orders"? The White House is essentially admitting that everything penned in each EO can be negated or nullified by Congress, which controls the government pursestrings.
In this instance, if the USG cannot afford to manage the logistical nightmares that will accompany uncertainty in domestic manufacturing supply chains, which result from the mere mention of the word "tariff."
whatmorefabric
·1 year agoMost of the volume comes from direct mail companies with small dollar sales . They can adjust their prices lower due to perks afforded by the Chinese government.
As tariffs in the US go up, these Chinese direct companies will still be more attractive to people who want to shop like a billionaire.
Companies use direct mail to avoid Chinese tariffs now, but they will continue to use these companies because there are no alternatives in the US to supply them.
whatmorefabric
·1 year agoI would not worry about de minimis getting in place anytime soon. The post office handles the collection of tariffs and in the short time that Trump removed it, the USPS became overwhelmed and it was quickly abandoned. Can you see postmen trying to collect money from millions of Americans.
The government has no system in place and there does not look like they are developing one.
valueaddedresource
·1 year ago@whatmorefabric when they backtracked on it for China due to USPS being overwhelmed, the Trump administration said it would still be happening "as soon as systems were in place."
Yesterdays' order explicitly said that the Secretary of Commerce has notified the President those systems are now in place for China, so they set a May 2 date for it to go into effect.
For China: goods at/under $800 sent through international postal networks will be subject to a duty rate of either 30% of their value or $25 per item (increasing to $50 per item after June 1, 2025).
Goods at/under $800 which go through other carriers will be subject to all applicable duties
So, if this order is correct in stating that they have already figured out the systems to handle shipments from China, then it stands to reason all of the work done to create/implement those systems will accelerate system readiness for other countries.
The devil will of course be in the details and execution, so we'll see next month if those systems really are in place and whether or not they can handle it, but sellers should at least be aware that the administration says the systems are in place and this executive order also clearly shows their intent to expand this to all countries as quickly as possible.
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoHi everyone,
This discussion has gotten a bit off-topic. Please bring the discussion back to the subject established in the original post.
Thank you.
whatmorefabric
·1 year agoThe tariffs were put on hold because the post office could not handle the collection of tariffs. While those tariffs were in place, my sons company got an 850.00 bill on a parts shipment.
Manufacturing is not coming back with tariffs. The money needed to fund the Capital of building and equipping new facilities, the high cost of health care and the high cost of US labor is still a higher business cost than the tariffs Trump is imposing.
carlmarxx
·1 year agoIt isn't and Never has been the job of the USPS to collect tariff's on imported goods. Orange Butterball 45/47 thinks he is in the 19th century .
valueaddedresource
·1 year agoI'm sure this request will fall on deaf ears but...considering how important this topic is for eBay sellers, it sure would be nice if we could avoid having this thread moved to the cafe where it will barely see the light of day.
dhbookds
·1 year agoAs we've said many times in relation to Ebay..........any change will help some, hurt others... To me, the important things are not to panic, find workarounds, adjust the the circumstances. I realize it's easy to say and many times, hard to do, but rants don't help, hard work may.......
mr_lincoln
·1 year ago@richard1rst
Thank you for posting ... I would think eBay would be issuing an announcement about tariffs as they relate to US customers purchasing from foreign Sellers ... and it will be interesting to see what happens on transactions where the Seller was not honest about the Location on the item and it winds up coming in from a country where tariffs apply ...
valueaddedresource
·1 year ago@richard1rst hate to be the bearer of bad news here but anyone who says it only applies to China has simply not read the entire thing - or in the case of political mouthpieces, they may be hoping you won't read the entire thing and simply trust their talking points, lest the public actually understand the full implications of the changes being made. 😉
Yes, that page you linked to only mentions China but that's because that page is just a short summary about China specifically.
However, the full executive order, can be found here:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/regulating-imports-with-a-reciprocal-tariff-to-rectify-trade-practices-that-contribute-to-large-and-persistent-annual-united-states-goods-trade-deficits/
Section H (which applies to all countries), says the de minimis will stay in place until the Secretary of Commerce says systems are ready - at which point it will be going away for all countries.
I've seen some claims that people think this will never actually happen because of the amount of people the government would need to hire to handle it.
That may be true and we may end up with more changes later like lowering the threshold instead of getting rid of it all together, but this is what the actual current EO actually says at this point in time.
They've set an effective date of May 2 for China, which likely means they expect to have systems in place to handle that volume by then (or alternatively it could be a bluff and they'll flip flop again in the next 30 days).
But assuming they will have the systems in place to handle incoming volume from China by then, it's not going to be significantly more difficult to expand those systems to cover other countries at that point.
I've seen some very knowledgeable and reputable people in freight and logistics industries saying they believe we will likely see de minimis ended for all countries within ~90 days, based on the full EO that was signed yesterday.
Obviously that could change at any time, and we've seen that happen before with this administration, so anything is possible - but for those trying to make sense out of it all and figure out where things stand right now, it's important to know there is much more to this EO than just that fact sheet about China.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource I agree with your take on this. If I were a seller in a foreign country who has been using the de minimis rule, my working assumption would be that the de minimis exception will be removed in the relatively near future, possibly with a month's warning (as for China), possibly with no warning. My working assumption would NOT be: de minimis is here to stay.
Of course, it could be that de minimis will end up untouched except for China. And even that is subject to change.
But personally, I'd definitely be making contingency plans based on its imminent departure.
valueaddedresource
·1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques exactly.
The full executive order is a little harder to parse and not as direct as the language about China, but basically you have section (a) which states it applies to all items imported into the US, unless there is a specific exception stated elsewhere in the order.
While there appear to be some carve outs for steel, aluminum, copper, pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, lumber articles, certain critical minerals, energy and energy products etc, it's clear that the majority of goods from most countries are included in this order.
Then subsection (h) refers to all articles from that subsection (a) when saying that once systems are in place, the de minimis treatment will no longer be available.
Taken together, as things currently stand, this Executive Order means that de minimis will be going away for most shipments from all countries in the near future if no other changes or new orders are issued - and sellers would be wise to start preparing for that eventuality.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource I can understand those who say: But the PO / Customs can't possibly handle the volume of all these small packages.
But---
Once tariffs are placed on the stuff being sent, it is likely that the volume will fall drastically....the main reason there IS such a high volume is the absence of a tariff. Add the tariff into the price, and I suspect a lot fewer packages will be entering the system. Which, after all, is one of the goals of the tariffs---to reduce imports.
So, I'm not sure the volume will be as overwhelming as some assume.
Of course, we'll just have to wait and see.
valueaddedresource
·1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques it also looks to me like the structure they have put in place is intentionally designed to disincentivize using postal services for some shipments, likely giving USPS a break on the volume as well.
Goods at/under $800 sent through international postal networks will be subject to a duty rate of either 30% of their value or $25 (increasing to $50 after June 1, 2025).
Assuming they enforce that on a "which ever is greater" basis, I can't imagine it will be worth it to send low value shipments through postal networks if you have to add $25 or $50 to it.
Goods at/under $800 sent by other means will only be subject to whatever the duty rate is, which I've seen reported as 54% for China when you add yesterday's tariff announcement to existing tariffs.
That's more than 30% but for low value shipments, 54% would still work out to less than $25 or $50 so....again the incentive here seems to be to make low value stuff a problem for other carriers to deal with.
Doing the math, paying 54% would be a better deal on shipments under ~$46 in May, going up to under ~$92 in June - that's a lot of cheap Chinese stuff that will be less economically viable to send via postal services once this goes into effect and will likely be diverted to other means.
Obviously duties will still have to be collected/systems will still need to be in place regardless of what shipping methods/carriers are used but it seems clear to me they intentionally structured it this way to try to avoid USPS getting bogged down and having to stop package acceptance like they did before.
12345jamesstamps
·1 year ago'it is likely that the volume will fall drastically'...yes, that will happen but on who or what?
This might means an increase of volume of who or what?...and if they can handle an increase in volume.
And can eBay deal with the reduction of International sellers and buyers?
Somewhere along the way it can't keep increasing ways to make a profit off a seller...especially internationally.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource Agreed. We can only wait and see how this all shakes out..
fbusoni
·1 year agoA teeny tiny example: the only eBay-related things that I do purchase which are made in China are plastic poly mailers. I can get 100 of them for $15.
For me, an increase in the price from $15 to $20 is not going to be consequential, given my margins here.
But for other sellers, it might lead them to raise the prices on their listings.
Tim Kaine was addressing the Senate yesterday and cited a conversation he had with the owner of a Virginia based pie shop. The owner said that she gets all her tin pie molds from Canada, and if those go up in price by 15%, she'll have to raise the prices of her pies. Since pies are not a necessity, she anticipates a decline in sales, which will lead her to lay off some of her workers.
Will American manufacturers of pie tins help this business owner by lowering their prices?
A nonpartisan study by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that tariffs imposed in 2018 had measurably reduced household income and gross domestic product (GDP) by the summer of 2019.
I'm still hoping that these US tariffs are all part of some sort of grand negotiating strategy.
(To quote Mr. Potato Head, hoping for a Mrs. Potato Head for Andy for Xmas in Toy Story One: "Hey, I can dream, can't I?")
jg.mason
·1 year agoI don't know what to make of this. I've read a lot of complaints in these threads about cheep Chinese imports and the cheep postal rates they get hurting peoples eBay business but now that something is being done about it, that's bad. 🙄🤣
fbusoni
·1 year agoThe White House statement asserts that the revocation of the de minimis is to stop the importation into the US of Chinese produced fentanyl.
I reckon that's a good thing to do -- politically, for certain -- but obviously it's a double edged sword.
I can think of other ways to deal with fentanyl but no one in the administration has asked my opinion. ðŸ˜
Of course, we must keep in mind that the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. might decide one morning whilst eating his scrambled eggs and watching tv that he actually wants more fentanyl coming into the US from China.
So really this latest announcement is not something to get too upset about.
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoIt's not as much about the actions as it is about the one directing them.
gurlcat
·1 year agoIt's "bad" because those sellers will now face much higher inventory costs, and the only 'edge' they had before was being American sellers who could deliver to American eBay buyers a little bit faster. And/or maybe they appealed to buyers who just don't want to shop on the Chinese websites for whatever reason.
Here's a micro-example, the closest I have ever come to being that kind of ebay seller: about a year ago I bought a couple dozen brooches of various designs on Temu. Most of them, I just included in mixed jewelry lots along with pre-owned stuff I'd gotten here and there. A few I sold individually, ones whose quality looked just as good to my eyes (and in my photos) as how they looked on Temu -that is often not the case, LOL. Anyway, just offering these very honestly, not trying to claim they were "vintage" or anything, I did manage to sell them for very nice margins. -Something like this for example, I'm sure I could sell it for $15-20 easily, especially since I know what dog breeds to put in the title, which is a huge keyword advantage.
I could have kept doing it, but I didn't because it feels icky to me, hard to describe why, just not my kind of eBay'ing I guess.
But a lot of sellers here -that is their whole model, buying their inventory super cheap directly from China and being their own little Dollar General outlets on eBay. THEY don't like it when Chinese sellers occupy the same space (eBay) offering the much lower prices here, for obvious reasons. But you can see why they also won't like it when they won't be able to get their inventory so cheap.
luckythewinner
·1 year agoThe solution to cheap postal rates from China was "solved" in 2019 when President Trump renegotiated the US involvement in the Universal Postal Union to allow the USA to charge higher rates on China.
If tariffs are still needed to address cheap postal rates from China, then Trump is either failing to use the mechanism he negotiated, or that mechanism was not the success he alleged it was at the time.
gurlcat
·1 year agoWell I'm sure thousands of factories will be conceived, planned, built, equipped, and staffed here in America within a few months, to start making all those things. We'll be fine.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@gurlcat
Yes, the "Golden Age" of a bright, shining and prosperous America soon will definitely be eventually imminent one day, almost certainly.
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoMaybe i am missing something. What exactly do we need (manufacturing) that we can't live without during this transition?
If new items get more expensive, the used market will pick up. (eBay) No?
mustang707
·1 year agoYes-you are missing something. You are only thinking about how it will affect you and it sounds like you will be able to cope with this situation. But a great many people live paycheck-to-paycheck and just buying essentials will get more expensive. It will take YEARS to ramp up general manufacturing to meet demand. And car manufacturing ---MANY MANY YEARS. "Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night." (1950 All About Eve)
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoI think i am missing an answer to my question. (specifics)
What do we need that we can't live without? (manufacturing)
If you rely on buying Chinese manufactured goods, either buy used items or source other items that can fill the void. Markets change all of the time and nothing is guaranteed.
mustang707
·1 year agoClothing, electronics, car parts, "plastics", toys, furniture, building materials. Yes-we can live without an extra toy. So you say, I am not going to buy "toys" and what happens next-a recession because sales slow down for businesses because customers are making do with what they have. I am wondering what this will do to the "dollar store". They already have had to raise prices since covid-maybe it will be the $3 Store now. I see a lot of "dollar store" businesses closing and laying off employees. But I need my car. Now, when I get my car repaired it will cost more. Some people cannot afford to have prices rise on so many things.
gurlcat
·1 year agoAbsolutely, but in terms of necessities, what we're really looking at is so much worse than these^ types of items, and it's going to be a very painful eye-opener. I'm talking BASIC, MINIMAL NEEDS. Here are some examples from my bathroom and kitchen. -And mind you, many kinds of goods don't have to state on the packaging where they were made, but if they were made in the USA the company will usually put a 'brag tag' showing that, so if it's absent, you can basically assume it was imported.
Ah well at least we do grow most of our own food!! Whew!
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoYou listed one thing from China that you can't live without. A toothbrush. 😂 Even if there was a 100% increase in toothbrushes, i think most would be able to get by with the increase. The De Minimis news is not going to impact much if anything. Most of the Chinese goods that most of you are buying will go up but understand the amount they will increase will be nominal since the cost of the items are usually inexpensive. If someone is having issues paying for a 50% increase of an item that normally sells for $1, they have bigger issues. IMHO
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoThe conversation is about the De Minimis but if you want to turn it into a tariff conversation, go to the CAFE and start a thread about that. We are going to be ok. Some pain but temporary.
da6170
·1 year agoYou clearly failed econ 101.
44012
·1 year agoWith regards to this....just something to think about. I don't believe many people know how many chemicals and natural ingredients come from China and South America and Europe. I used to be a purchasing director at one of the largest global flavor manufacturers and I am so happy I am not doing that anymore.
There are thousands of chemicals (among other items) the US chooses not to produce anymore due to the effect on the environment/people/logistics.
These chemicals are in just about everything we eat unless one adheres to a strict organic plant based diet.
Vanillin is the number one artificial vanilla flavor followed by ethyl vanillin. China is the global leader.
Then there are the Maltols...China is the global leader.
Let me add the natural flavor oils like Orange, Lime, Lemon, Grapefruit. Those come from South America mostly. Wait, I forgot about sugar....it is cheaper in Mexico so most of the candy companies moved there production there over a decade ago.
Natural Cocoa (nibs) and Vanilla (beans) come from Europe and Madagascar, Tahiti, Mexico.
These tariffs will make the cost of goods rise for almost every product at the supermarket imo. Oh wait, since countries probably won't want our soybeans since they are too expensive that may be cheaper - until we have to give the farmers a subsidy to make up for the loses. Although we could have a bad crop year due to flooding or drought I suppose.
ltldpr
·1 year agoAt least we make our own polyethylene glycol and ethylene glycol.
I've found the known allergens in liquid antihistamine, Vitamin C tablets, Tub-O-Towels premoistened disposable towels for cleaning, and many other things. I believe one or the other was in one of the major covid shots too (Pfizer iirc).
Who doesn't want a nice dose of a known allergen, derived from petroleum, especially in what we think is to help our health? At least it's Made in USA!
44012
·1 year agoThanks for the laugh!
Don't forget about propylene glycol....next best used thing in liquid items since water.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoThink about what you just stated. Why are they living paycheck to paycheck? Geez....
gurlcat
·1 year agoNo I'M the one missing something -I definitely don't remember hearing anything like "Folks, you're gonna live without ..... so much tremendous living without you're not gonna believe it. Living without the likes of which we've never seen before."
As for new/used, there's only so many things you can avoid buying new. And when people have to pay through the nose to afford the necessities they will have less to spend on the kinds of used things so many of us sell. What do you think is more likely, a guitar player struggling to afford his basic living costs will come buy one of your peddles, or come to sell his (maybe cheaper than yours)?
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoI guess you are saying you did not vote for the orange man and feel disappointed with the changes or lack of within the two months of this administration.
What necessities are you paying or going to pay through your nose? Specifics. I really would like to know the struggles of those buying Chinese items will have. Relying on those who hate you (foreign governments) is not a good business plan.
Also, musicians are always lacking money, so nothing is going to change with them. 😀 I price my items what i want to sell them for, not for what someone thinks they want to pay for them. If you're not selling, you are preparing to sell. If sales are down, look for buying opportunities.
da6170
·1 year agoI guess you didn't take econ 101.
gurlcat
·1 year agoThat's a weird guess. Would you be "disappointed" if you smelled a vomit-scented candle and found that it smelled horrible? Orange man is not the slightest bit disappointing to me, but he will be to many who did vote for him.
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoMaybe stop purchasing Gweneth Paltrow candles. (assuming you don't make your own)
Unless you are into the smell?? 😎
Everything is going to be ok @gurlcat .
gurlcat
·1 year agoI gave you a thumbs up because it seems like you need one.
luckythewinner
·1 year agoA lot of American companies, their employees, and their families depend upon having their products manufactured in China.
They will all suffer during the transition to substantially higher prices and the ensuing inflation.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoWell, those Chinese days are over, so you and whomever you're referring to better get used to it.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoGreat point, we don't need cheap, Chinese junk.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoIt started already, you're behind the curve. Thousands of large corporations have/are investing in factories here, in USA. These will be $25-$40/hr jobs average.
1. Nvidia - investing an additional 400-500 billion usd, expanding operationa here, USA.
2. Hyundai- $25 billion Louisiana steel factory, EV battery + additional ev factory in Georgia, with an additional 9,500 good paying jobs.
3. Apple- Investing 500 billion expanding operations.
In just a week, we've gotten an additional $1.6 trillion in actual and pledged investment.
Before you ask, a growing, prosperous economy is reciprocal to a higher standing of living, so yes, we'll be able to afford the products manufactured here in USA, just as we've been financing improving the quality of Chinese citizens; while their government devalues currency, and maintains slave wages. China joined World Trade Organization in 2001, with a 50 cents/hr national wage.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@cardxcraft
As a superficially facile theoretical construct, that is correct.
But because of the ripple effects that are inherent in taking a sledgehammer to the global economy, in reality nothing of the sort is guaranteed -- especially not anytime soon.
(Please take a look at my post upthread about the shop owner who might have to pay 15% more for her pie tins as a result of the tariffs placed on Canada, for example... and multiply the consequences of that additional cost -- which could include not only price increases for her pies, but also layoffs of her employees, which in turn will mean higher unemployment and less aggregate spending -- times several million, across small and large business enterprises in every sector of our economy.)
The fact of the matter is that Mr. Trump is gambling that the long-term benefits of bringing back to the USA all the manufacturing jobs that have disappeared over the last three decades will materialize, following a transition period that could / could see a period of sharp upheaval that has the potential to derail precisely what it is that he is hoping for.
He and his associates have absolutely nothing to worry about in that regard. But the same cannot be said for most of the rest of the American population.
Although I have only the most cursory understanding of these matters, I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that only a fool swallows the bite-sized morsels of garbage offered by the political class.
jg.mason
·1 year agoNot really a good look.
Above is before the edit. It would also be wise to remember that not everybody is a leftist drone that swallows a different garbage.
You seem intelligent enough to make your points without the ad hominem attacks. I don't know about any one else but for me when I read that kind of stuff I just discount the rest of the post. ðŸ˜
fbusoni
·1 year ago@jg.mason
Yes! A minor editorial distraction, of no importance and essentially irrelevant to the topic at hand.
And that is precisely why I edited it out.
Yet, strangely, a full 16 minutes later, that was not good enough for you.
Any “thoughts†about the actual substance of my post? ðŸ˜
jg.mason
·1 year agofbusoni
·1 year ago@jg.mason
So you opted to quote the old text even though it had been changed a full quarter of an hour earlier?
And made that lapse on my part the highlight of your new post?
Even though you acknowledge that the revised version was a “good read�
There is a disconnect here … and I fully understand your reluctance to explore it.