Day 29 INAD
I am strongly considering deleting my account of over 25 years.
I just had a buyer file an item not as described on day 29. It's like my 10th sale and every feedback I have gotten in the same class of item (several over the past couple of months) has been absolutely glowing.
And then this guy...with 2 digit feedback shows up on day 29 with INAD. Even showed subtle signs of buyer’s remorse after paying. I should have canceled the sale immediately.
I shipped within 24 hours of purchase. Buyer had the item in less than 4 days of purchase. No reciprocal feedback to my positive, of course. 29 days post delivery. "I am disappointed. Let's crack this open and render it unsellable "
Even as a relatively unexperienced seller, I know the lament of the "buyer’s paradise, seller’s hell" that the platform has become.
95% of my 100% feedback on ebay is as a buyer. Sure, I have made a small number 4? 5? INAD claims over 2 decades, but I have always done them quickly and cautiously. Now, being on the receiving end of the seller hell, I legitimately have to ask myself, in such a lopsided environment, should I even buy here?
I have to ask where my moral position lies.
I know full well that the AIautomotomotons running this system are going to mindlessly refund this INAD and strike my account. I don’t care. I don’t want the consummable item back that he yielded unsellable. But ultimately I have to ask if I can buy here when my quid pro quo scrupples say I can’t.
Hell, at this moment if I could invest in an S&P counterpart with ebay eliminated I would switch from VFIAX. The .08% is too much. BEYOND furious.
stuff4divas
·4 months ago@kaledonian
as another frequent poster here would say: you lost me at > "I am strongly considering deleting my account of over 25 years"
so, if this one transaction outweighs all the others, BYE!
inhawaii
·4 months agoI've ordered things before and waited weeks, sometimes months before opening and inspecting.
I'm a weird person but I imagine I'm not the only one who does that.
kaledonian
OP4 months agoSomething tells me you aren’t a feedback leaver.
grann-4629
·4 months agoI buy DVD's, mostly season sets of tv series. I won't watch some of these for months. If I get a bad one, too bad for me. I've only had that happen once and the seller gave me a full refund with no problems.
boomersbiz46
·4 months agoYou know I don't even know why there is such a thing as "Negative Feedback". If I buy something on line and I don't like it or whatever, I simply send it back for a refund. Some people are "ugly" and if you upset them in any way, they don't know how to handle it, so they jump online and leave a negative and it impacts the seller a lot. Why doesn't ebay respond to these people and find out exactly why they are getting crazy over some problem purchase and then let ebay judge if the negative claim is legitimate. Especially for sellers that have a long duration on ebay and have seldom if ever any bad feedback. No seller starts out intentionally trying to screw the buyer...stuff happens and a negative fb is not going to make it better. Just contact the seller, return the item and get your money back. Is this too simple a solution??
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoThere is already a review process - it's not great, but it does adhere pretty consistently to certain rules. I can't even imagine the administrative nightmare that would be caused by having adjudication on every neg every seller complains about on a platform with 130 million users. Maybe it's better if sellers and buyers don't take the entire system so danged personally.
grann-4629
·4 months agoIt would be easier and less expensive for eBay to eliminate the feedback program entirely, but they won't.
Maybe eBay should add some kind of delay feature that would prevent any feedback for say 3 days. That would provide a cooling-off period for members. For those who really believe in feedback, they wouldn't forget to leave or ask for feedback. For those that don't care about feedback (me, for example), it won't make any difference to their lives.
There are those that think a missing or negative feedback is like a hole in their body where their blood is leaking out and this idea might allow them to get fixed before they do the feedback thing.
JMHO tho ...
luckythewinner
·4 months agoBuyers are permitted to file an INAD on day 29, regardless of how you chose to file the INADs that you filed.
If you want to leave eBay or change your retirement investment strategy, you are permitted to do that.
kaledonian
OP4 months agoSo, this is almost a textbook case of a seller buying to resell, their own buyer complained and/or damaged the item on whatever platform they are selling on, and are trying to push their losses back uphill.
I have come to understand this is not inherently against ebay policy. But why in the name of all that is holy is the return window extended in such a long window as to help facilitate it?
If I don't want to ship to an area of the world where scam activity is rampant, this provides no ability to keep it from ending up there and back within a 45 day day window. It basically renders "Countries I don't ship to" a moot option.
meme6253
·4 months agoI would not let this be the final thing that breaks your camel back, You have enough experience to know that these things happen, Best to let it go & move on, & your own personal morals & scruples should not play a part in this decision, If I did that I would have been gone a long time ago.
kaledonian
OP4 months agoI appreciate the encouragement here. I consider those "morals and scrupples" the only things I have in this life.
I have been digging a bit (thanks Copilot) into a bit more specifics, and I think there are more signs than I once thought that this an arbitrage situation. My buyer is in the states -East Coast- but likely forwarded this (not using global shipping program- just a straight resale) abroad. This would account for the long time before the claim, and may substantiate buyer's remorse if the final recipient paid even more. I have requested an image of the shipping box (after all the buyer claimed to have been out of the country and thus, just recently opened it) since they SHOULD have it on hand unless the trash conveniently ran yesterday, on a Saturday, like they tend to do.
IF arbitrage IS the case, does it behoove me to wait the return out to the last minute before it can escalate, or do so with immediacy?
Whatever the outcomes here may still have zero bearing on how I move forward with my morals and scrupples suppression or lack thereof, but if this guy has shipped it overseas I want every last leverage to box him into a non-return corner.
inhawaii
·4 months agoOMG You had a customer initiate a return on the 29th day?
I know ebay allows 30 days for a return but this guy did it on the 29th day?
Unbelievable.
Certainly grounds for leaving ebay after 25 years.
kaledonian
OP4 months agoThe sarcastaball doesn't help.
Were you to look at my listing, how it was packaged, sealed, described, you'd absolutely know that the buyer did everything in their power to challenge the veracity of my item.
Details matter.
Due to certain details left out of the buyer's account, I am highly suspicious that the reason for my long return delay is a sub-brokered sell to a foreign country. But all I have is suspicion there, and the long return window that is provided by MBG certainly makes that tangential business feasible.
albertabrightalberta
·4 months ago@kaledonian
No seller who has had what they consider to be bogus NAD claims will disagree that it's frustrating. But it goes with the territory, especially in cases on online purchases when buyers aren't see, feel, try on, smell or use their item before purchase.
"I just had a buyer file an item not as described on day 29. It's like my 10th sale and every feedback I have gotten in the same class of item (several over the past couple of months) has been absolutely glowing."
Ebay gives buyers 30 days from receipt of their purchase to file so day 29 is within that timeframe. That "every (other) feedback" you've received from other buyers in the same category of item is "absolutely glowing" doesn't mean that this buyer's experience was the same.
"And then this guy...with 2 digit feedback shows up on day 29 with INAD. Even showed subtle signs of buyer’s remorse after paying. I should have canceled the sale immediately."
The buyer's feedback score is irrelevant. However if the buyer was showing signs of remorse after paying, perhaps you should have asked whether he wanted to cancel. Doing so without his go-ahead would have resulted in a ding on your new seller account and those defects can cause permanent damage for you.
"Sure, I have made a small number 4? 5? INAD claims over 2 decades, but I have always done them quickly and cautiously."
Not all NAD items are visible upon receipt. Some items break within a day, some might be rendered unusable in a week and others can go 3+ weeks before buyers can no longer use it. That's why ebay gives 30 days for buyers to open claims.
There's no question that many buyers take advantage of ebay's generous MBG but when it happens, sellers need to go along with it.
As others have advised, if this is too stressful for you to accept, then ebay isn't for you and that's okay. But it happens to every seller if they've been selling long enough.
kaledonian
OP4 months agoAnd all I can say in response to that is any new well meaning seller confronted with the draconian policy of returning any item on the final day of return window with 0 seller recourse is not sustainable. Once ebay's power sellers dwindle and retire out, any new seller presented this scenario within their first few sells is never to return.
authentic*vintage
·4 months agoGood morning...
It is against ebay policy to sell "open" or partially used fragrances.
You've been lucky to avoid issues with this.
Selling here is very doable if you adhere to policy. Don't give up. Save the open fragrances for local sales, though, to be safe and in compliance.
You may see other sellers doing it, but the policy was updated in 2019 and you'll pretty much lose any case on an open item.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoMost sellers here, if they are honest, and if they've been selling here for any length of time at all, will tell you they've had at least one NAD case during their eBay career.
You are, of course, free to do what you want. But, if you like selling here, you can accept the return and refund and just go on.
kaledonian
OP4 months agoI am making it clear since 1998 I have earned ebay 1000s of dollars in purchases alone, having bought many 4 figure items. I am saying, no, I am not happy selling here. But I am also saying that if I am a principled individual, that means I should not be ok buying here. The same principles I apply across my life should apply no less here.
If ebay has made the determination that their whale power sellers are where their principles and policies (money) lie, so be it. But they can't expect 0 pushback.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoOK. Your choice, of course.
shado-x
·4 months agoJust refund the buyer, get the fees back (that helps), ban the buyer, and then sell something 10 items and make 10 times the amount and be happy. Complaining doesn't provide relief.
kensgiftshop
·4 months agoNo, the sellers make Ebay money.
Buyers don't pay any fee's.
kaledonian
OP4 months agoIt takes two to tango bro.
broto_64
·4 months agoAs a seller I almost always insist the buyer return the item for a refund.
The only time(s) I don't is when / if I believe the buyer and I can understand what happened, and I deem it a reasonable reason such as it's just a crappy product / I shouldn't have sold it because I had a feeling something like this would happen and so on.
Under absolutely no circumstances will I allow buyers to bully me with their usual plethora of so-called "reasons" and believe me I get quite a few, in fact I believe buyers are FOS when it comes to most returns.
This last class of buyers, I have no earthly idea why they're actually returning the product. Truthfully speaking that is, confronting or even gently asking them doesn't do any good, but I do find most buyers returning a product fall in this category.
I'd say for me, maybe 1 out of every 10 returns is legitimately the product was no good.
The other 9 range anywhere from remorse to who knows what, they basically rented my item or ordered it wrong to begin with... The part that aggravates me is when they lie about it, claiming product is defective when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it OR claiming INAD when it's simply they didn't want to pay for the shipping (the kicker here is my returns are FREE regardless of "reason?").
So I make them return it.
I never make it easy on that class of buyers, they're making life hard for me so I'm making them jump through that extra hoop (or two) as well. It also gives me an opportunity to inspect the item to see if any other sort of foul play is going on OR in the odd event that I failed to spot some defect with the item or the listing that needs correcting (which also does happen on occasion).
Last but not least, in a case where a buyer admits having altered the item (especially rendering it unsellable) I may have recourse in ways of reporting that buyer and at the least withhold half their refund (you do have to be TRS+ for this to work) all the way to possibly contacting ebay and seeing what they can do.
Either way, if the buyer has told me they've destroyed the item, now they have to return it.
Please and thank you.
gurlcat
·4 months agoThank you so much for starting this post and talking about 'lube' and 'shiv'ing people.
Thank you, 'mostly buyer' kaledonian > Copying ...pasting ... and ... DONE.
Thanks again!
kaledonian
OP4 months agoI try. I’ll be here alllllll week. BUDUN DUN.
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoThere appears to be posts missing from this thread, because I remember that one - it was a great eye roller.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@chapeau-noir Ever read 'A Confederacy of Dunces'? OP's writing style bears an uncanny resemblance to the main character's speaking style.
kaledonian
OP4 months agoYour intended jab I'll take as a compliment.
gurlcat
·4 months agoWell it was, kinda. Impeccable grammar and impressive vocabulary. But overly flowery and with tedious attention to minutiae that doesn't actually matter.
And about that -do you realize having a photo of the box won't make one lick of difference and the buyer doesn't have any incentive to cooperate with requests like that? Do you realize it doesn't matter whether they resold the perfume and it ended up in another country? Do you realize that even if what you receive back is a face mask, some rocks, or a dog turd, you will still have to refund the buyer?
kaledonian
OP4 months agoYes, I understand this. I have made clear that I can't resell what arrives even if it LOOKS like what I sent. I am ASSUMING that if the item is still overseas and the buyer even has a modicum of integrity, it will never arrive in the window. But yeah, chances are I will receive all three in a bundle returned from a domestic location.
Thanks for the note on vocab...I pride myself on it...my typing and spelling can falter, but I kinda pride myself on it.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@kaledonian So how do you know you can't resell it? You haven't said what exactly the buyer claimed. You just said "I don’t want the consummable item back that he yielded unsellable. " What did he do to it? I know he didn't open a sealed box because all your Sold perfumes show the bottles out of the box already. If he claimed something about the smell, indicating he sprayed it once or twice, that's not going to make a difference in the liquid volume. As long as it wasn't a roll-on perfume then it's not like it's "contaminated."
grann-4629
·4 months agoI would send the dog turd back with a little extra sauce from my Rotty and vegetables from my pet dinosaur.
bonanza125
·4 months agoIn business you will always have some sort of issue with a buyer. Don't let this one buyer break you and give up Ebay after so long. Just accept the return and sell the item to someone else in whatever condition it comes back in. Now if selling on Ebay isn't for you and you don't like what has occur fine but as an experienced buyer you know what the policy is and knowing that you would know if you as a seller would have to honor that same policy to your buyers.
kaledonian
OP4 months agoDue to the nature of the item (a liquid that the buyer opened and is now calling NAD on day 29), I can't sell it. Or more correctly I WON’T. And technically by ebay's own policy I CAN’T.
bonanza125
·4 months ago"Due to the nature of the item (a liquid that the buyer opened and is now calling NAD on day 29), I can't sell it. Or more correctly I WON’T. And technically by ebay's own policy I CAN’T."
Unfortunately you will come across situations like this. I personally wouldn't sell anything liquid due to this reason. The buyer can use it don't like it and return it making it worthless. That's something I would've sold local.
kensgiftshop
·4 months agoRight, you write it off on your taxes.
kibble-net
·4 months agoIf 1 bad apple in 25 years is enough to make you sweat, then deleting your account is probably a smart idea.
Try opening a brick and mortar store instead. Or even just your own e-commerce website. Make sure to report back and let us know how it works out. 🙂
soh.maryl
·4 months agoOP states he's been here 25 years but this was his 10th sale, so it's evidently one bad apple out of ten.
kaledonian
OP4 months agoI actually looked at my feedback and I have done more business in the past couple of months...I have 16 sales.
So more like 1/12...the buyer was not the last sale I had. It just happens that I was hit by this very early in my selling for an item sold for about 200 USD. Woe to seller that encounters these people on sale 1. They are gone and gone forever.
I am still committed to abandoning my account if this goes how 99% of sellers suggest. I understand that having ANY recourse here does cost ebay. But you know what? It SHOULD. Limit the number of INAD by a buyer across time/purchases. Limit the number of INAD contest cases of sellers across sales/time. But there is no valid reason that sellers have 0 recourse here.
chapeau-noir
·4 months agoOK: You sold a widget to a buyer who decided on the 29th day on an INAD. Looks like they sent a sort of silly message (Health and Beauty is a tough market). You have a choice: Take the item back or refund. That bit is up to you.
This is called 'shrinkage' and every merchant deals with it everywhere - it's frustrating and I hate when this happens, and understand, but there's no philosophy involved. Just a decision because it's just business.