Damaged Parcel
I sold an item that, because of its weight, size, and value, I entrusted to a business offering packing and shipping (by UPS Ground). Although traveling only from North Carlina to Vermont, the cost of packing, shipping, and insurance was over $700.00. Because the large carton in which the item shipped was ripped open and the item exposed, the buyer refused to accept delivery. In the view of the buyer, the item had been poorly packed. Evidently, it'd been mishandled as well.
I sold an identical item fifteen years ago, had it professionally packed (by a firm different than the one I used this time), and it arrived at the buyer's address undamaged.
The item was fully insured, although recovering any portion of the substantial cost of packing and shipping seems doubtful. Can anyone recommend a course of action? In more than fifteen years selling on eBay, haven't encountered this issue before.
rouleur
·1 year agoThe damage claim was finally paid yesterday. I'm relieved that I avoided small claims court, since I learned I would've had to file in the state where the packer/shipper is located. Dealing with the packer/shipper, UPS Capital, and eBay was a nearly month-long ordeal.
caminocielo
OP1 year agoI spoke with customer service representative at UPS Capital this morning and was told no claim had been filed on my behalf by the packager/shipper. Then I contacted the police department in the municipality where the business is located to ask if they could offer any assistance. About an hour later I got a call back from a police sergeant, who told me he'd spoken with personnel at the business. Forty-five minutes after the packer/shipper opened for business, they telephoned me with a number identifying a claim they'd just filed (ten days after I'd asked them to do so). Time will tell if it's legitimate.
pikabo-icu
·1 year ago@caminocielo Thank you for keeping us updated. We are all rooting for you on this.
Keep after them, don't let them get away with this. Good Luck!!
mam98031
·1 year agoBrilliant idea to contact the police. One of the great advantages of living in a small community, the police are willing to be and have more available time to offer such a service. I too live in a small community with a GREAT police department. Nice job!!
rouleur
·1 year agoThanks everyone for the recommendations.
I made another trip to the packager/shipper this morning after contacting UPS. It's a very small operation, not directly affiliated with UPS. There was no user agreement. As usual, extracting any useful information from them is impossible. I was told by the employee to whom I spoke today that the fellow who knew how to retrieve claim information was out until Monday. When I told him I'd spoken with a UPS representative who said no claim had been filed, he asked if I'd contacted UPS Capital or just ordinary UPS. The latter, I responded. He said they wouldn't have information about the claim, but I wondered aloud why the UPS representative wouldn't have forwarded my call to UPS Capital. Everywhere, service is just getting worse.
caminocielo
OP1 year agoI thought I'd provide an update about this ongoing nightmare. The parcel - what was left of it - was returned to the packer/shipper. I inspected the optical printer on 6 May, finding damage and missing parts, so I asked that the packer/shipper file a claim on my behalf for the insured value, $3,695.00. Worryingly, the employee to whom I spoke couldn't seem to get the insurance value right. I was told that payment would be received within one to two weeks. UPS tracking noted the parcel was damaged. I telephoned the packer/shipper after one week to ask about the status of the claim and was told UPS had asked for further information and, once the packer/shipper received payment from UPS, they'd write a check to me. This morning, 15 May, I spoke to a UPS representative to ask about the status of the claim and was told there was no claim open for my parcel.
slati_2013
·1 year agoWas it a UPS Store or just a shipping business? Sounds like they just ship by UPS and have no connection to UPS. Or possibly even worse, they actually did not buy any insurance from UPS even though they charged you for it. Your problem may be with this business, not UPS.
Any time I ship an expensive item by UPS, UPS makes me print a second form that I have to give to the driver picking it up or the UPS Store I drop it off at. Without this form, UPS will not process any expensive claim.
stephenmorgan
·1 year agoThat does not sound very encouraging. I would do as @pikabo-icu stated ‎on 05-01-2025 09:04 AM.
I know you have concerns about filing a claim in court, but this may be the only way to have this resolved. I would check with the small claims court and find out what is necessary and follow their procedures exactly. It is possible they have a form to fill out to give proper notice.
Was there a user agreement when you purchased the service? Sometimes this is printed on the back of a receipt. If so, what does it say about resolving disputes?
Just a quick internet search and I see there are a couple of Legal Assistance services for Senior Citizens in North Carolina. Maybe call them and see what they offer.
mam98031
·1 year ago@caminocielo
Have you talked to the owner of the packaging store or just the clerks? You need to step this up and talk with the owner. You might want to hire a lawyer to make first contact supported by a demand letter.
funfactorychannel
·1 year agoThis is like telling the 1st degree murderer to wait by the body and wait for the police to confess his crime..
Even if company is in another state, If you file in the court of your state they have to come to you, not you go to them.
slati_2013
·1 year agoI am going to assume this is for the (J-K K-104R Optical Printer (Modified) + Bolex DS8 Camera + Super 8 Printer Gate), item#226700299745. While this is bigger than most items shipped, there is no reason why without proper preparation, you could not have packed and shipped this yourself. I have done so on a few occasions.
First measure item. Buy a box that the item will fit in with enough cushioning on all sides. This is very important. Use a new box. A used box will easily break apart. Bubble wrap in the bottom of box. Use the bubble wrap to center item by putting bubble wrap to all sides and the top until there is no movement of the item in the box and then seal.
Go UPS's online site and ship. Put in dimensions and weight. Buy insurance, and here is the important part; choose one or two day shipping. Have UPS come pick it up. It would have cost you far less than you paid the company to pack and ship this for you. Probably would have cost you $500-$600. Why is this important? One day, two day shipping are handled differently by UPS. They are not dumped with everything else. I have shipped big items and items costing several thousands of dollar this way with no issue. Consider it next time you have something bigger or very expensive to ship.
pikabo-icu
·1 year ago@mam98031 @albertabrightalberta
So my question is; what happens if he gets the machine back and it's not damaged?
I know the packing is horrific but there's a chance they only ruined the box in trying to pick it up.
So if it comes back and by some strange miracle it's not ruined, he's now out $700 + likely a couple hundred more to get it back.
That's money he wouldn't be out if buyer had accepted and inspected the item.
If it's only cosmetic damage perhaps he could have offered the buyer $100 or 2 as a partial to get the cosmetics repaired.
If that's what happens it seems very unfair to this seller. I know he can try to recover money from the shipper & packers but that's a lot of hoops and at times difficult to recover.
Does he have any recourse via eBay for that? Since it was returned outside policy?
ETA: Just realized if it does miraculously arrive intact, he has no recourse against the shipper/packers either so is going to be out around $1000.
mam98031
·1 year agoThose are all great questions. IDK for sure. I'm still stuck on the company that the OP hired to package the item didn't guarantee or warrantee their work. That seems so darn odd to me not to mention very unusual. If you pay that kind of money to get something packaged, there certainly should be some recourse on them. I'm hoping the OP just misunderstood something and they will be held responsible.
For the buyer to know if the item was OK, they would have had to accept the item, unpack it, inspect it and see if it works. There is no answer to this question for you since that wasn't done.
From the looks of the pictures posted. It is hard to fathom that it wasn't damaged in some way because it was free floating inside that box for its entire journey. Bouncing around inside that box. Likely to be more than cosmetic damage. But even if is only cosmetic damage, that isn't what the buyer purchased.
We don't have all the facts yet, so it is hard to say what direction this transaction will go. It certainly could go a few directions.
tools*
·1 year agoIs it the 8mm optical printer?
That is one horrific packing job. How in the world did they charge you $700 for that?
If it's a UPS store, they're on the hook for the insurance, including the shipping fee. If not, you should contact your credit card provider after you've received the insurance payment.
caminocielo
OP1 year agoYes, it was the Jaakko Kurhi optical printer. I shipped a nearly identical machine fifteen years ago using a UPS Store that charged me close to $400.00 (with an AAA discount) to ship it about 215 miles, so I thought $704.18 wasn't out of line after the passage of fifteen years and a shipping distance of 900 miles. Given the quality of the work, however, it seems like thievery.
The packing/shipping business I used isn't a UPS Store, sadly.
mam98031
·1 year agoHave you contacted UPS to get a copy of their pics of the package and an update on where it is?
Have you started the process for filing your insurance claim?
caminocielo
OP1 year agoNo, I've not contacted UPS. I can't file an insurance claim until I've examined the contents of the parcel. UPS tracking indicates the parcel will be delivered to the packing/shipping business today (5/2) by 7:00 p.m. Since the business closes at 4:00 p.m., it's unlikely I'll know anything before Monday.
pikabo-icu
·1 year ago@caminocielo
In thinking about this further, that heavy machine should never have shipped in a cardboard box.
I worked in freight for a number of years and that object should have been shipped in a wooden crate. The $700 they charged you was more than enough to build a crate or at the very least a wooden frame that the machine would be secured to with heavy gauge wire, rope or zip ties.
I agree with @albertabrightalberta I would sue them but before you do..
Get the item back & inspect for damages, the only thing we know right now is the packaging was damaged. You haven't seen the machine to know if it was damaged cosmetically or beyond repair.
Then; Send a certified letter to the "shipping" company (I put that in parenthesis because they have no clue what they're doing) pointing out their dereliction and demand they refund your shipping charges BOTH ways and if the machine is damaged, add the cost of repair or value if it's a total loss. Make sure to include a copy of the sale details to prove it's value or a repair estimate if it can be repaired.
Inform them you plan to sue if they don't remit you a check within 30 days.
If you don't receive compensation SUE them.
That "company" should be put out of business..
caminocielo
OP1 year agoThank you for your guidance in the step-by-step approach to seeking compensation. Unfortunately, I long ago joined the ranks of senior citizens and, as such, am ill-equipped to pursue the matter in court. The business isn't even in my state, and travel to small claims court in a neighboring state (with no guarantee of 'success') is off-putting. I just made a very, very poor choice selecting this business to pack and ship the machine. As I think I said, in 2010 I shipped an identical machine through a genuine UPS Store and had no problems at all. The buyer in that transaction reported the machine was very well-packed. Why didn't I choose to do business with that UPS Store again? I live in a rural area and it was a longer drive! I've learned a hard lesson (and I feel sorry for the buyer, who's been completely understanding and cooperative throughout this process).
pikabo-icu
·1 year ago@caminocielo
I'm sorry.. I took care of my elderly mom so I get it..
That said; I would still send the letter..
That's a lot of money involved and it can't hurt to send the letter.. They can't know you wont file..
I'm very sorry this happened to you..
It's a sad day when a company like that takes advantage of people, especially our silver citizens ..
Sad, SAD day.
The advice to open a credit card chargeback is also very good. That will at least get the shipping fees recovered.
az93
·1 year agoI have certainly had rough handling of packages that arrived all banged up but the item was fine. You just say the item was exposed. I interpret that as visible. So was the item actually damaged, so badly damaged that the buyer doesn't even want it?
albertabrightalberta
·1 year agoThe buyer should not have refused to accept delivery.
Is it being RTS (returned to sender)?
caminocielo
OP1 year agoSo far, I've no information other than that provided by the buyer (and the last UPS tracking comment).
mam98031
·1 year agoYou need to contact the carrier first thing tomorrow and find out what is going on with your item.
mam98031
·1 year agoI don't think I would have accepted it. Not a large package like that. But as a buyer I sure would have taken pictures of it before letting UPS carry it away so I had proof for Ebay on why I refused delivery. But with that said, UPS should have pics of the damaged package. They take pics when delivering it.
pikabo-icu
·1 year ago@mam98031
But doesn't refusing delivery negate the buyer's MBG? Per the policy?
The buyer refused delivery of the item
Covered:
Not covered:
If a package arrives empty or was damaged in transit, the buyer should accept the delivery and report that the item doesn't match the listing.
mam98031
·1 year agoYou are absolutely correct. But you are allowed to refuse a package if postage is due on the shipment and not lose your buyer protection. I would think with proper evidence the significant damage on a large package would be honored by Ebay too. Which is why I said if it were me, I would refuse the package but only after taking pics so you could prove what you are saying. And I'd likely contact UPS so I could get their pic or pics as well as they day pics at the delivery too.
The OP has said that the buyer did take 3 pics that they shared with them. I'm hoping the OP will post them. I did ask.
pikabo-icu
·1 year agoI understand..
I wouldn't want to accept delivery on that either but there's no way to prove the item itself is damaged and not just the box, unless you accept delivery and check. eBay's MBG doesn't cover the packaging LOL.
Since it mentions "damage" by name, I would be too concerned I would negate my MBG privileges.
But that's just me.. I wouldn't want to accept the package but I would just to be sure.
mam98031
·1 year agoWe just disagree on this point. I believe the damage can be proved if it was as damaged as the OP has said it was with the product inside exposed. But the pictures would give that information. Both the pics by the buyer and those taken by UPS.
albertabrightalberta
·1 year agoMy point in saying that the buyer shouldn't have refused delivery is that I knew the buyer would lose the MBG in doing so.
I don't disagree that accepting the damaged package would have been a huge inconvenience for the buyer but for the buyer's protection, they should have accepted it. The ONLY reason (per ebay policy) that they are allowed to refuse delivery is for a postage due item.
@mam98031 When policy is so clear as to specifically exclude ANY other case in which a buyer refuses delivery, why would you think ebay would make an exception in this case, especially when it's clear they don't accept video or photographic evidence. (What about all those sellers who have claims of empty boxes and the sellers say they have videos of themselves packing the shipment that show it wasn't an empty box?)
Again, according to policy, the one and only reason that's an acceptable reason for refusing delivery is postage due.
an-57470
·1 year agoExactly correct. They will not. Unless it is as a “courtesy.â€
mam98031
·1 year ago@albertabrightalberta
I understand what the policy says. I never suggested you or anyone else didn't understand the policy. There is no need to suggest that I don't understand it either. And yes if the buyer filed an INR claim and just let it process automatically, they would certainly lose the case. I didn't suggest doing that. The buyer needs to work with Ebay directly on this issue.
I do understand and respect your advice and it is good advice. I just think this particular case could be handled differently. Either way, the buyer isn't here to get advice, only the seller is. So it is just a good conversation.
caminocielo
OP1 year agoBecause I hadn't any shipping cartons large enough or sturdy enough to ship this heavy item, I had to have it packed by a business offering packing and shipping. As such, I didn't get the shipping label or insurance through eBay (I do for all of my parcel of manageable size).
It was the UPS driver delivering the parcel who recommended that the delivery be refused. The buyer has sent me pictures and the last UPS tracking entry read, "The receiver refused, the package appeared to be damaged. UPS will notify the sender with the details".
mam98031
·1 year agoIt was something the buyer had a right to do, whether or not the UPS driver told them it was an option. I sure would not have accepted such a large package that was torn up. I would however take pictures of it.
If you haven't received pictures of the package, you might check with UPS because they also take pics.
Look at your receipt from the place you had package it. Did you pay them for insurance on the way they packaged it? Did you have the contents insured when you purchased the shipping label? Is UPS returning this shipment to you? If so, did they secure the contents if the packaging is damaged?
caminocielo
OP1 year agoThe buyer took three pictures and sent them to me.
I'm not sure what you mean by "insurance on the way they packaged it". Do you mean insurance against their incompetence? The contents were insured for the full value. I've heard nothing from UPS, but tracking shows the parcel (what's left of it) is being returned to the shipper (not me). I'll have to send the buyer a full refund before this matter is settled.
mam98031
·1 year agoThe buyer took three pictures and sent them to me.
I'm not sure what you mean by "insurance on the way they packaged it". Do you mean insurance against their incompetence? The contents were insured for the full value. I've heard nothing from UPS, but tracking shows the parcel (what's left of it) is being returned to the shipper (not me). I'll have to send the buyer a full refund before this matter is settled.
You are not familiar with what insurance is on shipping? At the time you were preparing the shipping label you had the opportunity to purchase insurance on the package too. Did you do that and if so have you put a claim in for this damage?
When you went to the UPS store or where ever it was you took the item for packaging. Did they offer insurance for their work they did for you? If so, did you purchase that insurance?
Who is the shipper if not you? The people you hired to package the item? If that is the case, did you contact them to tell them the problem? If not you should. They and you need to know the status of that package and you need to get the insurance claim filed. You have pictures to present.
Would you mind posting the pics here. Make sure you black out any address to your buyer if that appears in the pics.
caminocielo
OP1 year agoYou seem to be making a distinction between insuring the contents of a parcel and insuring the quality of the packaging. I'm unaware of the existence of latter and, no, the business I used didn't offer insurance on the quality of its work (and it's no wonder given how shoddy it was).
As I thought I made clear, I didn't prepare the shipping label. I can't make a claim until the item's returned to me so I can assess the damage. So far, I have only the buyer's report of damage, not images of it. The images she provided show only the shipping carton and minimal packing material (lightweight paper completely unsuited to protecting the roughly fifty-pound machine). The parcel is being returned to the shipper.
mam98031
·1 year ago@caminocielo
FYI
https://www.theupsstore.com/about/pack-ship-guarantee
rouleur
·1 year agoAh, that's interesting. Unfortunately, the knuckleheads who packed & shipped my item aren't employees of an "official" UPS Store. The buyer said in one of her messages that "The issue was the packaging: no padding, just a little paper. " One of the employees at the business asked, as I was leaving the store, "What most concerns you?" I told him it was most important that the machine arrive undamaged. A lot of good that did. All for $704.18.
mam98031
·1 year agoWow that looks like they left a lot of open space inside the box for the item to move around during its travels. That may have caused all the damage. That is terrible.
caldreamer
·1 year agoEBAY holds seller responsible if item is lost or damaged in shipping. Only option is to refund the customer and file a claim with UPS. UPS requires photo of damage and may require in person evaluation of the packaging. Sounds like company who hired to pack your item did a horrible job. I cannot believe package was torn open when only being shipped to nearby state.
You mentioned that you insured this package. Did you insure it and print label on EBAY? EBAY insurance is handled by ShipCover (they are very, very good about paying for damages). No questions asked.
Next time I would package items yourself with tons of bubble wrap and "double box" (box inside a box). I have used this method and never had a problem even coast to coast.
inhawaii
·1 year agoI don't think you have too many options.
Pursue a damage claim with the carrier.