Crooked buyer
I recently sold a pair of Steuben candlesticks on eBay. Payment was received and promptly shipped the items. I have been selling for years, including many fragile items and never had anything break during shipping. The buyer contacted me when the candlesticks arrived and said that one of them has been broken during shipping. I apologized to the buyer and requested that he sent back the unbroken one and receive a full refund. I asked the buyer to send photos of the box to see if it was damaged during shipping, and the box looked fine, the box was not insured.The other candlestick was returned, and it two was broken. Once again, there was absolutely no damage to the box. I complained to the buyer and also the eBay and eBay completely sided with the buyer and I lost the sale and I’m out $200. I very strongly suspect the buyer had a broken pair and he kept mine and shipped me back the broken piece. Not sure how to keep this from happening again with future sales when the item being sold is not unique.
chapeau-noir
·9 months agoWhen I was selling a lot of glass I had two very well-packed goblets break in transit. Since these were good customers, I just asked them how they were broken (shattered, stem snapped or what) so I could figure out what i had done wrong. Weirdly, they had both simply broken in half.
I found out shortly thereafter that a stained glass artist I knew had received an order of glass where the sheets had cracked into big chunks. Turns out extreme cold and temp fluctuations can do that, and they usually did nor order glass shipped in the dead of winter. 😒
ryry-jj
·9 months agoHow would you apply logic in this case? The OP thinks the vases were switched out, & I, and some others, think they were poorly packed...how would you expect eBay to view it? Who is right? We all know going in, the buyer will win these situations...we move on
saltcar
·9 months agoI've had similar cases where buyers are clearly out to scam somebody. Unfortunately, Ebay always sides with the buyer. Ebay needs to train agents better and take the time it needs to review each case for the truth. In cases where it can't be determined, Ebay needs to pay the sellers. After all, they're exorbitant fees should cover this once in a while. Against what we've been led to believe, the customer is NOT always right.
pickapaper
·9 months ago@saltcar wrote: "Ebay needs to train agents better and take the time it needs to review each case for the truth."
Do you honestly think that eBay should be able to "train its agents better" when there are more than 17 Million sellers and 134 Million buyers on eBay at any given time? How would you even train someone to cover the thousands and thousands of different problems that buyers and sellers complain about?
And could you imagine, with more than Two Billion items for sale, and those millions and millions of buyers and sellers and the problems that arise, how much time it would take to "review each case for the truth"? Would you have the agents do that, or someone else? Even if that were to happen, without a lengthy time-consuming "trial", how would the truth be determined? Do you think these agents should be given the authority to make determinations of outcome?
fern*wood
·9 months agoThe money/time involved in investigating every problem would cause our fees to skyrocket.
saltcar
·9 months agoYou are overanalyzing it. Probably less than 1/2 of 1% need attention. If they have the time to take my call, they have time to apply logic. We don't need a trial, just less stupidity and algorithms.
dryophelia
·9 months agoIf the option for human eyes to see the dispute were there, every seller and buyer would take advantage. Then, maybe half of 1% would not make the call.
pickapaper
·9 months ago@saltcar wrote: "Ebay needs to train agents better and take the time it needs to review each case for the truth."
"You are overanalyzing it. Probably less than 1/2 of 1% need attention. If they have the time to take my call, they have time to apply logic. We don't need a trial, just less stupidity and algorithms."
To me, you are contradicting yourself. You say they "need to take the time to review each case" and then you say "probably less than 1/2 of 1% needs attention". How would you determine that? I said, because of sheer volume, that there is no way it is physically possible to "review each case" on a personal level and no way to train agents to take care of all the problems that arise. They may have the time to take calls but they do not have the knowledge or experience to "know everything" nor the authority to apply logic or make decisions. (BTW, it is a known fact that agents tell callers what they want to hear, not necessarily the facts and often incorrect information, so "applying logic" doesn't even enter into the picture.)
meme6253
·9 months agoFragile items need to be packaged extremely well with a lot of protection from the outer walls of the box,even when the outer box shows no damage.
pickapaper
·9 months ago@cabrew wrote: "I complained to the buyer and also the eBay and eBay completely sided with the buyer and I lost the sale and I’m out $200. I very strongly suspect the buyer had a broken pair and he kept mine and shipped me back the broken piece."
Actually, you are not out $200.00; you are "out" the amount that you paid for the pair. If you bought them at a garage sale for $10.00, you are "out" $10.00. If you bought them for $100.00, you are "out" $100.00. (You can deduct the loss from your income taxes at the end of the year.)
Unfortunately, when you sell online, you are going to run into what you perceive as a "crooked buyer" and whether they are actually "crooked" or are an honest buyer who received a damaged item, is something no one knows. Regardless, because of eBay's Money Back Guarantee, eBay will side with the buyer 99.9% of the time. (Are you familiar with eBay's Money Back Guarantee?) When we sell on eBay's platform, we agree to their rules and policies, whether we agree with them or not.
tobaccocardyahoo
·9 months agoIf you did not double box with adequate packing materials in the inner box with the candlesticks and between the inner and outer boxes, you cannot be certain you packed adequately to survive a worst case trip to the packages destination.
Having the buyer return only one candlestick and refunding for two was creating an temptation which may have been too great for the buyer to resist.
ryry-jj
·9 months agoVibration is a glass killer. If you have two packaged together, you need to package them like they aren't together. You can have vase wrapped in bubble packed in a box that sits on truck and vibrates for 24 hours. The box is fine but when you open it up you have a pile of glass.
Unfortunately you are out the two vases. We don't know, but I guess the buyer packed them like the seller and they both found out what can happen
cabrew
OP9 months agoi’ve been selling fragile glass and many other fragile items for 20 years. I know how to pack them and they never get broken. The pair of candlesticks were packed very well when shipped out, they wouldn’t have broken in shipping unless they were very poorly handled by USPS and that would have shown with damage to the heavy duty box I use. The return candlestick, which was supposed to be in perfect condition when they mailed it, arrived shattered. Again, no damage to the box and very well packaged. The whole point here is that the customer, in my opinion, had a broken pair and sent a broken pieces back to me and kept the mint candle sticks. These are not rare items, there’s a lot of a mouth there and there’s no way to tell if they send you back the same one that you sold them
hotwheelsbum
·9 months agoKeep repeating this to yourself time after time after time, which it seems you have, and you will believe it to be true.
Some of us out here never will believe it though, no matter how many times you keep repeating it to US.
a_c_green
·9 months agoWell, yes, that was why I suggested that you just ask for the broken one back in exchange for a half refund, instead of the one that had survived the trip (and which the buyer would presumably want to keep anyway). That would result in you keeping 50% of the sale instead of none of it.
hotwheelsbum
·9 months agoI saw the listing, the Steubens. Very nice set.
But, if one arrived broken, and NO damage to the box, it was broken by hitting. bouncing off the other one. That Glass is fragile as it is. Doesn't matter how thick, heavy duty the BOX is, if they're not packed well enough inside of the box, they are going to break in transit just bouncing off each other. That's how the other got broken on the way back. Buyer didn't pack well enough.
I wouldn't suspect Buyer whatsoever. You just think you packed these well enough. Reality is you did not.
cabrew
OP9 months agoYou have no idea how well I package items, never broken anything ever during shipping, have received several comments on how carefully I package items… and the returned piece which was in mint condition, and again absolutely no damage to either of the boxes, they are crooks. I have heard of other eBay sellers having various scams with buyers.
hotwheelsbum
·9 months agoProve it was not broken in transit. Prove you packed it well enough to not get broken in transit.
Until you can, all you have is a belief you packed it well. Probably 96.23% of items getting broken in transit is due to poor packing by packer, Seller. You finally had one break, deal with it.
I have been told many many many times in the past that I'm an excellent driver. But you know what, I have had a ticket or 2 over the years. Nobody is perfect.
christworks
·9 months agoI totally agree with @hotwheelsbum . You can look at my feedback and see how time and time again I'm told I pack things well. I have way more than you do. To be sure, I do pack things well. But on very rare occasions something happens and something gets broken. The box does not always get damaged.
You are asking for advice/help, but apparently only want people to confirm your own bias and tell you that you did not do anything wrong. I don't get that. You don't want this to happen again? Admit it is possible you didn't pack as well as you thought you did.
I am also at a loss why you are sending a $200 item that is not insured. What is going on with that?
luckythewinner
·9 months agoLet's imagine this sale happening in three parallell universes:
From eBay's perspective, how do they determine which one actually happened?
They can't.
inhawaii
·9 months agoGeneral statement.
I don't know where people get this "there's no damage to the box" theory.
Picture this.
A super fragile item, poorly packed, dropped from a height of 30 feet.
There may be no damage to the box but I can assure you, the item inside WILL be damaged.
inhawaii
·9 months agoEvery seller/shipper since the beginning of time who has had something damaged claims it was packaged well. You are no exception.
fern*wood
·9 months agoWhat service did you use that was not insured? Not that it would cover the loss anyway, but most shipments include insurance.
kensgiftshop
·9 months agoYou can't.
Ebay doesn't know what you shipped or what the buyer returned, so they'll always side with the buyer.
ten_o_nine
·9 months agoI very strongly suspect the buyer had a broken pair and he kept mine and shipped me back the broken piece.
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It is difficult to prove a 'switch' occurred without evidence or unique serial numbers. Items can break or get damaged during transit even if the external box shows no damage.
bonanza125
·9 months agoThis is the risk you take selling stuff online. Things happen beyond your control. There is really no clear answers to how this happened. Ebay allows buyers to return for refund. The mistake you made though is allowing the case to be put into Ebay's hands cause yes Ebay will side with the buyer and you now will get a defect on your record for not properly refunding the buyer in time. Stuff which are fragile I tend to not list on Ebay due to issues like this. This is something better off selling locally.
a_c_green
·9 months agoI'd ask him to return the broken one in exchange for a 50% refund... (with suitable apologies too).
bonjourami
·9 months agoI had a collectible arrive smashed to pieces, with absolutely no damage to the box. if those fragile candlesticks were not double boxed, one hard jolt would do it.