Cheaters gonna cheat
Buyer opened an item not received two days before ebay estimated delivery. I explained it was Christmas time and the item was in route and not estimated for two more days. Her didn't want to hear it. I use lettertrackpro because the item cost $3.50 and I charge $1.50 for shipping. For the most part this has been working out lately. (loose disks) So the next day I get an email from LTP stating it was delivered. I contacted the buyer, informed that it should be in his mailbox today and sent a screenshot. I was hoping he would close the case, item received. I waited a few days and contacted ebay. They saw it was delivered and gve me a case number. So today is the day for the case to close and of course it closes in his favor. He gets a full refund, keeps the dvd and leaves me a negative. The negative states I gave him a fake tracking number which I didn't then somehow now states he received it but it was damaged. (never contacted me) I have a bad feeling this guy knows what he was doing and I will lose the case. The negative now states he received it and it was damaged and I was rude. He didn't lie and state he didn't get it. I bet ebay leaves it and says too bad and maybe gives me my $5 back. (I was on with chat and they me fill out a request revision form) This goes to you can do everything honest and correct but people will still cheat you even over $5. Thanks for letting me vent 🙂
travelingokie258
·2 years agoStrange, I have had ebay rule in my favor for INR cases specifically because of LTP.
holsteinatlanta
OP2 years agoSpoke to someone on the telephone today at customer support. First guy way nice and helpful then got transferred and of course had to tell the whole story again. She agreed with me and also say that the item was delivered through tracking. Yes they accepted it. Then said ebay will contact you in 24-48 hours which probably translates to 'show concern to the seller, get them off the phone and we will do nothing' Still want to win this case, I don't care about the money but this is principle.
gurlcat
·2 years agoIt looks like eBay scrubbed his comment, but not the neg (mathematically).
Or maybe, kinda hard to tell and I've never seen this before: Looking at all your feedback (left for seller), his comment is not visible.
But when I click your red neg count number, then his comment becomes visible.
So I don't know what that's about. But look if you want to get his neg removed, just report him for writing in his feedback about eBay getting involved. That is against eBay policy, and they remove comments for that reason all the time.
holsteinatlanta
OP2 years agoalmost every single response argues one point or another that is not part of my question. Forget the part about tracking or by definition what LTP is or does or if my disks are getting scratched in a plastic case. Buyer opened INR I provided tracking showing it was delivered. whether or not you think that the tracking number is valid or not is still not the issue.
the buyer, got the case closed in his favor INR then he left negative feedback, saying I was rude and the disc was scratched.
So he HAD it all along and the item not received was false a lot and he got the disk for free.
forget letter track pro forget whatever condition it was in that is not a problem.
he said he didn’t get it and he actually did and then he got it for free
gurlcat
·2 years agoSo yes that buyer is a jerk who got away with ripping you off. Once he got the refund via INR, then he wanted to make sure you knew that he ripped you off by stating in the feedback that he had the disk, and also hurting your reputation by insinuating that buyers will get damaged items from you. Just using all his d-bag powers because he's a sociopath I guess.
So what was your question? I just checked, and in your entire post and all your replies, you never used a single question mark, other than "What other class is there?" (besides First Class). -Your thread title is "Cheaters gonna cheat" -TRUE, obviously.
Unlessssss....... you use all available tools to block cheaters from cheating. But you don't want to hear that, so I won't say it again.
ajw2203
·2 years agoerror didn’t mean to post here
broto_64
·2 years agoI read through the first page of posts and I believe most of the rest of this thread to be along the same lines and the conclusions I can tell you both from that and my own experience is this:
When a buyer opens an "Item Not Received" case the seller MUST enter the tracking number into the case.
I believe Ebay recognizes tracking numbers from UPS and Fedex but most definitely USPS.
I couldn't tell you whether ebay recognizes that service you're using, it may be worth finding out the next time you get an INR case because I can tell you IF your buyer opens an INR case AND the tracking number states the item is delivered AND you have entered it into the case AND ebay recognizes the service then the case WILL close in YOUR favor.
holsteinatlanta
OP2 years agoThe service I am using is United States Post Office and it is going first class
Letter Track Pro is a service that puts tracking on envelopes. It is not a carrier. I measure and weigh the disks, the mailer is 6 x 9 x 1 and weighs 1.5 ounces. So I put one forever stamp and one additional ounce stamp on the mailer because it is less than 2 ounces. This item in the picture was 2.2 ounces. So one forever stamp. and 2 additional ounces. The barcodes that looks like ''''"""" '' ''' '' '''' above the buyer's address gets scanned along the way similar to ebay's standard envelope.
I didn't know there was a difference in word first class because it is going first class. In order to use the tracking you can go to the website parcel app and it will come up or I can open my order page on the letter track pro app. The weird thing on the parcel app.com webpage is that if I enter the tracking number it will show my entire home address and the buyer's entire name and address. Ebay supports it because it is the post office.
the forever stamp is chopped off in the picture
gurlcat
·2 years agoHow can you conclude that eBay "supports" it after you LOST the INR case? That other screenshot you showed of the LTP website tracking .... that may be good enough for you, and may even work if a buyer tries to get you to refund them just by writing you a private message claiming they didn't receive their package. -Then if you sent them the LTP screenshot, they might be convinced it's not worth filing an official INR. But if a buyer has already filed an INR, obviously the screenshot is not worth a lick to whatever eBay employee evaluates the case. For all they know, you just created a fake tracking page.
And no, they are not going to go through the trouble of going to the website themselves and entering the tracking number, so don't picture that happening. What they need is a tracking number that EBAY'S OWN SYSTEM recognizes. When you have that, here is what you see on your Sold page for each item. DELIVERED. And then if you click the Tracking icon on the right, you get a popup showing the tracking scans performed by the facilities AND the carrier when he/she delivers the package.
The carrier's gun scanner does not work on those ''''' '' ''''''''''''' jobbers. That is why you can't prove whether or not a paycheck or birthday card was delivered. AND that is why a FC postage stamp is so much cheaper than a FC package label, because a postage stamp doesn't pay for the physical labor of a mail carrier doing the scan with his gun.
Now, this LTP outfit seems to be a sort-of in-between compromise. Like I said, it might come in handy when a buyer just contacts you privately. But as for official INR cases, if you keep using the LTP thing you will just have to accept giving away a free CD/DVD to a scammer now and then.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoActually ebay's stance has always been that any carrier is fine as long as "the tracking is visible online". Which it is through sites like LPT.
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoBetter re-read ebay's policies, not all tracking is fine. If the tracking is not from an approved carrier ebay lists, then its not honored, and ebay wont even look at it now. Letter Track Pro is not on that list.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoWell, that was their stance a long time ago, so they probably changed it with weasel words by now.
As long as tracking was "visible online". That was what the blurb said back when.
gurlcat
·2 years agoI don't know what evidence would trump the fact that the OP lost the INR case.
Weasel words, Cheshire cat words, golden lion with flowing mane words = words.
Case results = MONEY.
That's all I need to know.
broto_64
·2 years agoAll I can tell you from what I know, is enter the tracking number into the Item Not Received case and see what happens. Either ebay accepts it, or they do not and you will know because ebay will either close the case in your favor or they will close it in the buyer's favor.
Not sure how else to say it, no amount of explanation from your end is going to change that.
holsteinatlanta
OP2 years agoHere is a screenshot stating delivered. But that is not the case, he states in feedback that he got it, yet opened a case stating he didn't. Then contacted ebay saying he still didn't get it and got a full refund.
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoebay policies state: "To protect yourself against "Item not received" claims filed through eBay Money Back Guarantee, you need to use a shipping carrier that is integrated with eBay."
Stated right here: https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/setting-shipping-options?id=4089#section1
ebay does not care what a third party websites tracking data shows. You have to use an integrated shipping carrier to get protection for INR's.
If the platform you're using to ship with isn't on the list of approved carriers, then its invalid and ebay will not honor it.
As much as I'd like to believe people are honest, the reality is most are not, and I see no logic in using a service that leaves you the target for scammers.
gurlcat
·2 years agoAgree 99%, all but that last sentence. In my experience most buyers are honest, so there actually is logic in using non-protective shipping for items so low-price that adding the cost of a FC shipping label would take away your competitive edge with other sellers. When I was more into coins, I would send lower-value ones in Christmas cards with a postage stamp. -Even with a protective cardboard coin flip case, the total thickness still didn't exceed that of a card with one of those embedded music players, so it was no problem. Out of dozens of such sales, I had only one buyer claim they never received their coin. -They did this through private messaging, and just from their way of talking I believed them and refunded them with a sincere apology (although even if I didn't believe them, they could still file an INR so there'd be no point in refusing to refund). Anyway, this is what I mean about most buyers being honest. -Particularly with low-value items at least. Maybe people would be more inclined to scam for higher-value ones, but then, higher-value ones also warrant using a real FC label with tracking. So the problem kinda sorts itself, you know?
That said, what I eventually realized was, likelihood or unlikelihood of scams aside, the amount of time and effort it took to photograph, list, communicate, pack, and send coins for only a buck or two in profit ..... was simply not worth it. That would take pure love for the hobby, and I respect those who can afford to devote themselves thusly, but as a single mom with rent to pay, I'm in no such position LOL.
krazzykats
·2 years agoLetterTrack has been discussed before:
Solved: Question for Sellers Who Use Letter-Track..... - The eBay Community
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoInteresting.
Almost sounds like ebay got the idea for ESE from LTP
rugerskick
·2 years agoMake sure to block and report them.
holsteinatlanta
OP2 years agoJust because you do not know what letter track pro is, there is no reason to argue against my point.
If you don't use it then fine. Ebay supports is against INR, that's the whole point of using it. I came here to state facts and now I'm getting people who don't know what ltp is arguing with me.. The feedback should be gone by tomorrow. I come to these boards for help not a further argument. If I posted the tracking number here it will show my name my full address and the buyers full address which is not allowed
gurlcat
·2 years agoOhhhhh. So THAT'S why eBay found in the buyer's favor and gave them a full refund on their INR. Because they supported LTP! GOT IT!
Thank you ever so much for coming here and sharing "facts"!
🤣😆
zobal99
·2 years agoWelcome to the club. I have had the same thing done to me. And for an inexpensive item too. They know how to work the system. They all pull the same crap with the rude business. I know you weren't. I have found that the buyer wins out most times. Good luck (you'll need it)
gurlcat
·2 years agoCould you share this screenshot for the curious-minded here? Also what did eBay see, and how did they see it? Does the item show as Delivered in your Sold listings? If so could you take a screenshot of the tracking there?
If this LTP thing IS INDEED recognized by eBay's tracking system, then you could prove us wrong for suggesting this INR (and future ones) are your own fault.
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoI'd assume their buyer who claimed they received fake tracking probably clicked on it and ebays response was to say they dont recognize it.
gurlcat
·2 years agoBut clicked on what? A screenshot isn't a link, just an image.
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoI mean the tracking. Even if ebay allows them to enter the tracking in the sale, if the system doesnt recognize it thats a serious problem.
holsteinatlanta
OP2 years agoUSPS IS first class. What other class is there? It isn't going first class parcel post it is going first class.
As I replied to a different guy, all of the disks are put inside clamshell cases, they will not get scratched. Unless someone steps on the package they will be fine.
The reason I posted here is the buyer opened INR but got it then had the case closed in his favor stating he didn't get it but in the negative reversed himself stating he got it. I believe this is an easy case. Not sure everyone wants to argue how I ship or mayyybe it got scratched. If I tell ebay my item hasn't arrived get them to close a case saying they didn't get such item, it is fraud plain and simple
Disk Cases I use
carlmarxx
·2 years agoSo you use disk case's ,which I didn't see in your Item listings. they are okay to use ,But I recommend you should place them in padded envelopes as extra protection for transit . I have over 16,000+ feedback transaction's as a seller and buyer with this ID ,so I have both point's of view . and have no problem answering questions of help . I do have a second ID i started back in 1996 .
gurlcat
·2 years agoBut .... okay correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see how an un-recognized tracking number could even BE entered into the system. Also the OP didn't say the buyer could see the delivery scan in tracking; he said he sent a screenshot, meaning what only HE (the seller) could see, because he did business with this company that eBay doesn't recognize. So it sounds like there was nothing the buyer could "click" ... nor anything eBay could "see" (as he claimed in his original post).
Basically either he was knowingly being untruthful when he said "they (ebay) saw it was delivered" (because AT BEST all they saw was a screenshot, I guess as an evidence file he submitted to the INR page ...???) ..... or he thought eBay saw AND BELIEVED it was delivered when they saw his screenshot, when he wrote the post ..... but now that he has seen the replies he understands that he was wrong, and is done replying to this thread forever, LOL.
Judging by the fact he picked a basic description of LTP as the "solution" ..... yeah I doubt he's coming back.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoI would have just refunded the buyer.
It's possible the buyer didn't know which shipping resource the tracking was from. "lettertrackpro"...I never heard of it myself.
Emails back and forth can put the buyer in a bad mood.
And then the buyer decided to do "it was damaged"
Lucky, it was only 5 bucks...but sometimes just returning the 5 bucks...and not doing emails to buyer might have worked.
And block this buyer immediately from future purchases.
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoI see a bunch of problems here. First off, you are essentially using snail mail to ship your DVDs, all while ebay is providing your buyers with delivery estimates based on First Class shipping (now Ground Advantage).
When I click to view the shipping details of your listings, it literally states "First Class."The issue here is the estimates ebay is providing to your buyers will never be accurate because you aren't using the service you have stated in your listings.
That being said, you are going to end up with angry customers and item not received claims galore because nothing is ever going to arrive on time.
Sellers have zero control over those delivery estimates, other than selecting the service they plan to use to ship with when listing.
Likewise, I would never ship a DVD in a cardboard sleeve, it will be tore up by the time it reaches the buyer.
Paper sleeves wont cause as many scratches, but then you take the risk of the disk being crushed by heavier packages while in transit. This is not speculation, I am speaking from a decade of experience in selling DVDs online.
buyselljack2016
·2 years agoBy USPS definition it sure sounds like they are going "First Class".
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoFirst class stamps vs. first class packages, two completely different things, and they are not handled or processed the same way, and USPS is going to give the same garbage priority with that lettertrack pro nonsense.
It often takes the post office weeks to deliver a single stamped letter I mailed to a destination within my own state. Throwing a stamp on a cardboard sleeve is a not viable way to mail packages, unless your buyers dont mind waiting weeks on end for their orders to arrive.
buyselljack2016
·2 years agoFirst class vs. first class packages, two completely different things, and they are not handled or processed the same way,
---------------------------------------------------------
I thoroughly understand the difference. There are no first class packages
By USPS definition they are going "First Class".
holsteinatlanta
OP2 years agonever knew, so ill change all my listings to 'economy shipping' and take out the word first class. Thank you
buyselljack2016
·2 years agoas you wish, but as I posted........... by USPS definition............ it seems that you are shipping "First Class" as the choice when listing on eBay for the way you are doing it is USPS First Class.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·2 years agoSpot on.
At eBay must have tracking eBay recognizes or just forget it otherwise gambling on buyer honesties.
If sending a disc in paper mail have to put said in disc in a tyvek envelope then into the paper mailer, the wove tyvek material wont scratch and is somewhat puncture resistant but yes, they can crack under weight atop them. Simply putting them in a paper mailer they will move inside it and as they do, they will scratch.
Any CD, DVD be it music, software, video that shows damage on the printed side of the disk will most likely fail. Folks dont understand disc technology. A CD or DVD if looked at under microscope will look like hills raised portions and not. A laser reflects off the "silver backing" and is deflected or not yielding a binary one or zero in simplest terms. A "Burned" CD or DVD alters the BACKING material to perform the actual laser deflection to the read head.
If one holds a DVD or CD up to a light and can see any significant light shining through a hole or scratch on the PRINTED side its likely it will fail as the reflective backing is damaged.
carlmarxx
·2 years agoI looked at your listing's and most of disc's being shipped with out a cover or case and placed in those rigged envelope's are going to get badly scratched up during transit . Which will get you a boat load of SNAD's .
holsteinatlanta
OP2 years agoare you speculating or are you stating fact because I bought plastic clamshell cases that they are in let’s not vear off the topic here
carlmarxx
·2 years agoNo problem .
iamalwaysright
·2 years agoI'm pretty picky with jumping to this conclusion with buyers, but honestly I can see your buyer was likely malicious. Does he have a high buyer feedback rating? Is it still the consensus that you're more likely to get these issues with low priced items versus higher priced ones?
Anyway, the good news is that the feedback they gave you is in violation of ebay's feedback policy. So you should be able to get it removed because of that.
In the feedback misuse policy page https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-policies/feedback-misuse-policy?id=5030 it says
Feedback content should only be related to the transaction. We don't allow:
Feedback can't contain comments of any claims or cases as well as their outcomes. I've gotten feedback removed because of this awhile back. You might get unlucky and an agent would just choose to remove the feedback comments and leave the negative. Let's just hope the online feedback removal system will just catch and remove the whole thing so you won't have to talk to a rep about it. Good luck.
krazzykats
·2 years agoLetterTrack provides eBay sellers and other online retailers with the ability to track letter sized mailpieces. LetterTrack Pro prints an intelligent mail barcode above the address which provides the buyer and seller with real time tracking emails each time the mailpiece is scanned at a USPS facility.
Image Copied from Letter Track's Home page.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoLetterTrack Pro is a close cousin of Ebay Standard Envelope with the same flaws as ESE.
Missed scans and delayed delivery are quite common.
holsteinatlanta
OP2 years ago"
LetterTrack Pro is a close cousin of Ebay Standard Envelope with the same flaws as ESE.
Missed scans and delayed delivery are quite common.
Luckily it was scanned the whole trip. My PO to his mailbox
gurlcat
·2 years agoIt could be 100% identical to an ESE but if it's not recognized in eBay's system, it can't protect you from INR's even if the item really got delivered. It would be like trying to return an item from a store without a receipt, just your bank statement showing that you spent that much money at that store -nothing for the computer to look up and affirm, no dice.
And you must realize eBay doesn't include this LetterTrack outfit in its' recognized tracking entities, or you would be able to find it in the menu of available shipping carriers when you create a listing. You choose First Class/Ground Advantage because in your mind it's the closest cousin. But in eBay's software it's nothing.
But what I'm curious about is, WHO actually sells, carries, delivers and scans these labels? Does LTP have their own fleet of vehicles and nationwide employees?
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoExactly. I see nothing under my shipping policies that offers lettertrack pro. If ebay does not honor it, then its pointless to use it and scammers will have a field day filing INR's.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoIn order to be protected from "Item Not Received" disputes, you must have delivery confirmation showing "delivered" from a service that eBay recognizes.
I have no idea what Letter Track Pro is, but if LTP is not recognized by eBay then LTP delivery confirmation means nothing and does not cover you.
bonjourami
·2 years agoSo he filed a snad case,buyers usually always win those, sorry. If you want the item back, you will have to provide a return label, and be sure to respond to the case so you dont get a defect.
holsteinatlanta
OP2 years agoHe filed INR not SNAD. So he got it. I never heard a peep about SNAD
bonjourami
·2 years ago" The negative states I gave him a fake tracking number which I didn't then somehow now states he received it but it was damaged. (never contacted me) I have a bad feeling this guy knows what he was doing and I will lose the case. The negative now states he received it and it was damaged and I was rude. "
Sounded like a snad to me.
gurlcat
·2 years ago"The negative" just means a feedback comment, not an official claim proceeding through eBay.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"The negative" just means a feedback comment, not an official claim proceeding through eBay."
I guess what confused me is the op saying the buyer told him he received it and it was damaged. Just figured the buyer switched his inr complaint to a snad,since the buyer admitted he received the pkg,and still won the case.
gurlcat
·2 years agoBut .... no ..... the OP didn't say the buyer told him that. In fact he literally said "(never contacted me)" about any damage stated in the feedback comment. In other words the buyer either lied in the feedback for revenge, or the item really was damaged but they already got a full refund due to the INR closing in their favor.
bonjourami
·2 years agoI see, my bad,thanks.
gwenscupboard
·2 years agoCopied the first sentence in the original post >>>>
*Buyer opened an item not received two days before ebay estimated delivery. I explained it was Christmas time and the item was in route and not estimated for two more days. *
bonjourami
·2 years ago"Copied the first sentence in the original post >>>>
*Buyer opened an item not received two days before ebay estimated delivery. I explained it was Christmas time and the item was in route and not estimated for two more days. *
Yes I read all that, buyers can change their case from an inr, to snad. Since the op said he then complained when he received it that the item was damaged.
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoYep, they opened an INR 2 before the delivery estimate because the estimates ebay provided were for a service the OP never used.
You have the delivery estimate provided to the buyer, which was based on Ground Advantage, and then the estimate the OP was provided with lettertrack pro, two completely different services.