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Chargebacks are On Rise Even More On Ebay
Charge backs are on rise, much more on Ebay. Ebay doesn't care and will not care. Mark my words. With this economy , chargebacks are happening even much more than ever . Most People tell you here " Oh well Ebay will back you up". Well let me tell you INAD and SNAD chargebacks are so easy to win . Even if you try it with someone you would probably win, it so easily. Oh and if someone thinks credit card companies will force the scammer to return, scammer would easily return you a different product or even an empty box. So then you have to file police report and postmaster report. That would not do anything. Maybe if there are pile of reports against a single scammer, then may be. Even then if has to be a significant amount. CC chargebacks are loopholes and Ebay encourages it, period.
Ebay states its a platform, they are only here to take their part, if anything goes wrong deal with the buyer directly. No matter how many pictures you post, outcome is not always what you think. Now people say " Ebay can't do anything", well let me tell you lots of people who have scammed honest sellers on Ebay are still on Ebay and constantly doing it with so ease and no restrictions. Ebay is in cahoots with these scammers. Can't waste money and energy . According to Ebay " ITS A COST OF DOIN BUSINESS". I closed my account recently , few other sellers had nightmare chargebacks and they lost. Few lost thousands. Not every sale is less than 1000$ or 500$. "EBAY ITS A COST OF NOT WASTING MY TIME ON YOUR PATHETIC PLATFORM". Few of my friends are doing better on other platforms. That truly made easier for me to quit here
A friend of mine did it with another independent retailer, i really hated him, he was instantly blocked by that retailer for future purchases. Good. This is the only way out. Not here, its definitely a scammers paradise.
kh-phdan
·2 years agoHello Everyone,
Since things keep getting a bit heated here, we're going to go ahead and lock this thread. If you want to discuss this subject again, please create a new thread, but please remember the community guidelines when posting.
kh-phdan
·2 years agoHello everyone,
This thread is getting a bit heated. Please remember that it’s fine to disagree with others, but discussions should always remain courteous and respectful.
Thank you for your cooperation.
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoWhy do people constantly bash this site with 100% false information.
1st- Chargebacks are on the rise WORLDWIDE at EVERY venue...because there are 1000's of videos on Youtube about how to 'get things for free'
2nd- this site and ANY other site have absolutely NO CONTROL over chargebacks. To 'accept' credit cards, merchants MUST agree to accept ANY and ALL chargebacks AND give the money back should the 'bank' decide in their 'customers' favor. This is OLD and has happened for WELL over 30 years.
champuchinonu1
OP2 years ago@stainlessenginecovers
They don't only bash it here on Ebay community , but even on reddit and youtube too. Probably you never checked those sites. Oh sorry , i forgot to mention google reviews of Ebay Inc San Jose California too. Goodluck with searching.
bonjourami
·2 years agoI guess I dont know your agenda in here if you are leaving? Its getting kind of redundent, nobody is begging you to stay,just trying to get your many 'facts' straight.
champuchinonu1
OP2 years ago@bonjourami
I also don't know your agenda here as well. You are without any reason defending Ebay with absolutely wrong facts. First it was 1 million then suddenly 2 billion transactions. Ever heard of maths? You don't know the real numbers , yet you are telling me to get my facts straight. Am i begging ? I don't think so. Your assumptions are pretty without facts.
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoI am VERY well aware of bashing of EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN on those sites; and am VERY well aware to take ALL of them with a grain of salt- meaning they are 90% false.
But to Constantly see nothing but complete lies on this sites OWN forum is simply disgusting.
champuchinonu1
OP2 years ago@stainlessenginecovers
"But to Constantly see nothing but complete lies on this sites OWN forum is simply disgusting. "
Because Ebay allows it , just like Ebay allows scammers to keep scamming on their web site. Nothing to get frustrated of. Its a norm on Ebay. Calm down and enjoy the roller coaster.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"Most People tell you here " Oh well Ebay will back you up". "
I dont find that to be true at all here on the boards.
champuchinonu1
OP2 years ago@bonjourami
I am pointing to seller protections. Lots of ebayers advising sellers/buyers to contact Ebay For Marketplace on Facebook and how good they were and how quickly they solved their problems. Your replies make me think that i made the right choice of leaving this platfom after reading this.
" My understanding is Ebay doesn't look at those pictures either,buyers have been known to send back pictures from the original listing, of course showing no damage, and still been approved".
"
bonjourami
·2 years agoI find Ebay for Business on Fb to be very helpful, but they cant interfere with a chargeback either.Ebay is buyer centric, if the picture criteria make you that upset that you want to leave, its probably for the best. But happy trails...
champuchinonu1
OP2 years ago@bonjourami
Its the logic , not the criteria. If Ebay is buyer centric then should not offer Seller protections. You can't ride 2 boats at same time. Be fair in game Ebay. Your replies are really helping me draw my conclusions.
Another seller froze his account / delisted his listings for the same reason because he was scammed out of Iphone 13 today on Ebay.
Logic for Ebay is plain and simple , if there are no sellers, there are no buyers. Its Ebay not Amazon, where a single giant has such humongous amount of inventory that could care less for small/third party sellers.
That's not the case with Ebay. Ebay runs on sellers.
Ebay doesn't have their own inventory like amazon.
I like logic in business better than criteria and critical thinking.
bonjourami
·2 years agoSounds like you will be happier selling elsewhere, nothing wrong with that. Just remember, the complaints you see here are just a drop in the bucket, with over thirty million sellers on Ebay, and over a million sales a day. Keep it in perspective.
champuchinonu1
OP2 years ago@bonjourami
Its again logic vs criteria. Plz also keep in mind that on that million sale everyday, Ebay takes a percentage, rest goes to sellers. Divide that sale to number of sellers, you will get your answer. According to you 1 million of sales divided by 30 million sellers???😂
A drop, may be , but Ebay is going to invest on AI since they know their forecast really well, they are looking desperately for different ventures.
Amazon do 1.4 billion sales everyday, plz also keep in mind they don't rely on sellers.
I will definitely be happier to sell elsewhere, i knew a guy who delisted from Ebay with a big inventory, and within 2 years he has hardly left with anything.
Also google Ebay inc San Jose Corporate ofiice, you will definitely get better view of Ebay.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·2 years agoSo what exactly would you propose?
eBay protects sellers far far better than having one's own merchant account. I've never had a stolen credit card passed on me here. Sure, certain products are targets so dont sell them anyplace online. I've friend with a computer store, he wont sell any gaming graphics cards online here or Amazon nor high end CPU's etc. But he sure does sell slews of old laptops here, thousands and thousands of them.
Dont think there are not bad sellers either when eBay removes on average 241,000 listings everyday 7 days a week. Heck you get people go sign up on a Tmobile Contract get the phone with it, make up stories how they lost it re-enable their old phone or try and then sell the new iPhone.
There are no simple solutions to any of it hence why every longtime seller and contributor to these forums will tell any seller, "If you cant afford to loose it dont sell it online."
lakefor94
·2 years agoeBay does not need you or me selling here and really could stand to lose a few million existing sellers that provide a lousy buyer experience.
Sellers have always been and will remain inconsequential.
champuchinonu1
OP2 years ago@lakefor94
Lousy buyer experience with 100 Perc feedback ? Lol. That's a new one. Don't worry, no one is selling here.😄
Lose few million sellers here on Ebay lol, Nah, Ebay won't be able to survive if they lose even few this year, thats why they are looking into investing in AI.
Third party sellers make 23% of Amazon Revenue.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"Lose few million sellers lol, Ebay wont be able to survive if they lose few this year, that why they are looking into investing in AI."
Ebay will never run out of sellers, with thousands more joining every month, sellers are buyers too.
lakefor94
·2 years agoThe lousy seller comment was NOT aimed at you, it was a generalization.
Having spent years browsing the forums here on this account and others, I have a file for clueless seller quotes, lol.
I make quite a nice income here working part-time to full-time at some points.
Sellers have to know the ropes so to speak and how to take advantage of the seller protections that are offered and make them work. A seller account has to turn the savvy scammers away on their own accord.
Of course, if you are selling high dollar phones, laptops, ipads, graphic cards, you would have to deal with the stupid scammers as well.
bonjourami
·2 years agoYou've made several pronouncements that are not fact based, so that may hurt your credibility in here.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·2 years agoI did quite a bit reading few weeks back about the current lay of chargeback land.
One poster noted "They should be required to contact the seller" well that actually is suppose to happen but more and more doesn't. Many people who do CB's consider just like a return in their heads and of course then the realization comes, "Oh what a nice tool."
Here's an indi site, recent publishing but pretty much all there from my quick buzz through it.
https://chargebacks911.com/chargeback-facts/
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoBuyers are allowed to try to do charge backs. Basically, its the bank you are dealing with in a charge back.
I had a buyer do a charge back after 280 days...eBay has to allow it. I fought it with the bank through eBay.
Doesn't always mean the buyer wins. To dispute the chargeback you have to upload "documentation" of something or it won't go through. And seller has to say what happened. It's a bank you are basically dealing with where they want information with what eBay has. This buyer is longer a registered user on eBay.
So it does work to win a chargeback but it comes with a little of research and work.
downunder-61
·2 years agoeBay does not allow it, eBay is totally out of the game. 280 days is excessive even for a bank to allow a chargeback, so sorry this happened to you, but eBay is not involved with Bank actions and it is up to the seller to provide proof of delivery/suspecting fraud etc in the answer to the CCCB claim.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoCan you share the source of your statement that chargebacks are on the rise on eBay?
Where, exactly, are those statistics shown?
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoCan you share the source of your statement that chargebacks are on the rise on eBay?
Where, exactly, are those statistics shown?
EBay will never release statistics on the chargebacks they are hit with it would probably terrify their shareholders since those artificially inflate the GMV. Any chargeback data is difficult to find simply because there are so many pieces. The following is a bit dated but it has some general insight.
https://www.accertify.com/growing-challenge-of-chargebacks/
lawnmowerpartsstore2
·2 years agohttps://finance.yahoo.com/news/2023-chargeback-field-report-friendly-120500728.html
tsme35
·2 years agoEbay's is also losing money, I won't sell any high dollar items or anything I can't afford to lose. I also believe it should be mandatory for the buyer to file on ebay(or any site) before being allowed to do a charge back.
I'm waiting on a ruling on a charge back, because buyer didn't recognize purchase, even though it was delivered the day before. Wrote the buyer and they replied "mistake sorry", case still pending because buyer didn't contact the CC company to cancel and ebay holding my funds for 2-8 weeks.
champuchinonu1
OP2 years ago@tsme35
Buyer will never contact CC company. They are waiting for decision to be made through CC , buyer knows it will be in their favor, so they are waiting for this to happen. Hope you receive your funds.
This is another scenario where buyer buys on Ebay, then somehow forget about transaction. Later comes on and disputes it , CC backs buyer, they get their money, keep your stuff. At that moment, you are solely at the mercy of Ebay if they decide to give you seller protections or not .
I was just in another discussion where buyer returned different product to OP seller, got his funds back, Ebay refused seller the so called seller protections , even when according to seller he provided all pictures/info etc. This is more common than most people think on Ebay.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"I was just in another discussion where buyer returned different product to OP seller, got his funds back, Ebay refused seller the so called seller protections , even when according to seller he provided all pictures/info etc"
Unfortunately, Ebay does not look at 'pictures', they can be doctored.
champuchinonu1
OP2 years ago@bonjourami
Unfortunately, thats not the case when Ebay buyer sends a picture of INAD or SNAD. So this means that only pictures from sellers are doctored, not ones from buyer?
bonjourami
·2 years agoMy understanding is Ebay doesnt look at those pictures either,buyers have been known to send back pictures from the original listing, of course showing no damage, and still been approved.
tsme35
·2 years agoI did include the order details with buyers' information and the email saying it was a mistake. I'm just lucky I only get 1-2 a year, so if I do lose I should be protected by ebay, if I can reach anyone that is.
Unavailable member
·2 years agoI've been selling a long time about 18 years off and on. I've had 2 chargebacks in that time, both were item not received disputes that I won.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoDid you actually win them? Winning meaning the buyer did not get a refund, Or did you not have to pay because PayPal or Amazon or some other organization funded the refund.
Tracking is not automatically a guarantee of a win on a chargeback dispute. The bank may require a signature. Under PayPal Seller Protection, PayPal would pay if you had tracking. Amazon will pay if you have tracking and bought shipping through Amazon.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·2 years agoYep and back in the day sending anything Postal Service w/o signature delivery was simply not defensible in chargeback for an INR claim. This due to the fact that delivery show only a region and zipcode not the physical address.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoWhat you sell and who buys it is a key predictor of all types of buyer fraud.
@retro_entertainment_collectibleshas quoted some data on a high risk group of buyers.
If you sell items which primarily appeal to high risk groups of buyers, it is unlikely your business will be sustainable.
I have eliminated products I sold in the past which appeal to a different demographic which has an excess of high maintenance buyers. My definition of the category, and what constitutes a high maintenance buyer.
Sellers, especially small sellers, do have defenses to high rates of returns, chargebacks and other disputes, it is to forego some business. BAD BUSINESS IS WORSE THAN NO BUSINESS. And we all need to recognize what bad business is, and do what we can to avoid it.
farmalljr
·2 years agoHonestly, I would rather see buyer file cases with their CC providers, because lately eBay seems to get it wrong with both buyer and seller.
A Larger segment of sellers have become the old "get off my lawn" types, thinking they can make any rules they please, ship any way they please and describe items however they please, and if a buyer complains, it's never the seller's fault. While I realize scammers are messing with good sellers, bad sellers are also messing with good buyers. Maybe going forward, chargebacks are the way buyers need to handle it. At some point, the bad sellers will leave and maybe THAT will clean up the platform.
It's not just bad buyers here, there are plenty of bad sellers to go around.
Just today I messaged a seller who sold something that was "new" but failed to mention or inspect the item that is was actually not complete. Half of the product was missing. This seller happened to be good about the whole thing, apologized and refunded. A good portion of sellers here would not, and would go off on a tirade how the buyer MUST be a scammer. I'm already at the point with sellers here, that if I send you a message and you act like a child, I'll just open a INAD with the bank now. No sense involving eBay, it's all bots and AI now anyway. Days and weeks to do something that should take less then a day. If eBay won't clean it up, then the banks will. Enough chargebacks and banks will not work with them anymore.
Sellers think it's not "worth it" to sell here. Neither do buyers think it's worth all the stinking hassle to buy here. That's why buyers keep leaving every quarter.
sumsum70
·2 years agoSellers think it's not "worth it" to sell here. Neither do buyers think it's worth all the stinking hassle to buy here. That's why buyers keep leaving every quarter.
I only buy on eBay if the item is both inexpensive AND I am in no hurry to get it. Otherwise, I'll go with AMZ even if it costs a little more. Too many experiences on eBay where you get a tracking number right away, but nothing gets shipped for a week or worse.
sumsum70
·2 years agoChargebacks don't concern me with eBay. You can't get chargebacks if nothing actually sells. For the month of January, I sold at a ratio of 22:1 off-eBay vs eBay. That ratio is going to be a trend for all of 2024, I'm sure of it.
champuchinonu1
OP2 years ago"Chargebacks don't concern me with eBay, For the month of January, I sold at a ratio of 22:1 off-eBay vs eBay. "
LOL. I was told the same thing from other acquaintance, who moved to another platform. He was trying to get rid of few remaining inventory ( pretty big one) on Ebay, then delisted from here and went to the other venue.
He's hardly left with anything now.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoMost People tell you here " Oh well Ebay will back you up"
Most comments I read on here say that if the buyer files a "Not As Described" , charge back, the seller will almost always lose.
Ebay states its a platform, they are only here to take their part
eBay policy is pretty clear that Managed Payments is a payment processor, and that Managed Payments will actively manage payments.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·2 years agoChargebacks on the rise all over the Internet from here to Mamazon to Walmart and its a BIG problem that is going to get solved. The question is how and that HOW is likely to be a "Care less about cottage online sellers." It's the retailers being affected.
eBay does not mitigate chargebacks, they are the merchant of record just as if you had a merchant account you don't get to determine who's right and wrong. That responsibility usually falls upon the card aggregate processor as they are the most independent entity versus merchant provider or consumer bank.
There are variances of standard process. Standard process is the moment a chargeback takes place funds are reserved in you're bank account for the total charged. A $25 fee is assessed by your bank, processing fee. Another $25 fee will be assessed by the Merchant Account Provider and another $25 fee assessed by the Card Processor (Say Wells Fargo) doesn't matter if the total were $500 dollars or one dollar. Now if the vendor disputes the chargeback some merchant account providers will assess another $25 fee for EACH response to the chargeback, others may not.
Here funds reserve on you're eBay account versus you're bank but if the chargeback is found in favor of the consumer then they'll draw off a funding source. Not all that different than simply refunding per se in account level funds. That's different.
Adyen is the card processor not eBay. eBay has a software gateway to the payment processor no different than say Kohls does. eBay has a form to dispute chargeback which is assessed a $20 fee to use, that $20 likely goes to Adyen's dispute/risk assessment unit.
Solving such things is a real problem that has NEVER had an adequate solution, just like the he said/she said of say Feedback has no perfect solution. A big part of the problem is that as you can see above banks make money coming and going. They make money on interest of credit cards, money off debit cards using consumer checking account monies, there's money floats about as merchants are charged whats known as "The Discount Rate" (How much percentile commission is paid on the total charge, term Discount Rate makes NO SENSE right?) As you can see, even make money on chargebacks.
eBay in a way mimics seller (merchant) risk assessment so if an account falls within a problems ratio they charge extra FVF commission. Merchant account with chargebacks on ratio to sales w/o issues may up that "Discount Rate" to the merchant. Its meant to encourage better business practices.
On the consumer side it is tracked and no doubt eBay tracks folks who do chargebacks but historically with mail order (online) due to the dysconnectivity of merchant/consumer the consumer tends to win Chargebacks by lying. Retail chargeback different deal as the consumer has hard goods in hand, checks out and the retailer has capability to directly replace if something is defective. Normally a defective TV come back for replacement, gets inspected by someone at the location for example before chargeback even be a thought. Aka: "The consumer never came back into our store to speak of replacement, store credit or refund." Point being retail is more defensible.
Now all that said, back in the day when there were heaps of business to consumer points of sale that had many vendors aboard like Onsale, Surplus Direct, Auction World, iDeal Networks etc they three models.
1. The vendor performs fulfillment and money processing via their own merchant account.
2. The vendor was an anchor vendor (agreeing to terms/volume) and the point of sale do charges and the vendor ship under said terms/volume.
3. The vendor ship products to the point of sale and the POS does both charges and fulfillment.
The numbers being reported of "Friendly Fraud" as its called are staggering and the card franchises point at Gen Z folks as the #1 aggregator, over 60%. Now just via simple searches online you'll see some places have run polls whereby 20%+ of respondents have said they have committed friendly first person fraud and were perfectly fine with what they received. Thats STAGGERING.
Now if it were ONLY retailers involved there are some clear ways to cope with it as its VERY unlikely retailers are sending out heaps of hosed products and more processes can be made that are preventative in conjunction with card franchises, banks and end retailers. But for these open marketplaces, well, big big problem.
lakefor94
·2 years agoIf you think chargebacks are not prevalent on other platforms that use a payment processor, that would be naive.
I get twice as many on Amazon. Granted, it is not a significant amount over the course of a year. It is not any easier to win INAD chargebacks on other platforms.
Keeping buyers pleased is the best chargeback deterrent.
Good luck with your alternate venues.