Challenge the dispute - UNABLE TO CHALLENGE
I send $5 items without tracking but the dispute widget requires a tracking number. The "buyer" received the items and is saying "they don't remember".
37 comments
I send $5 items without tracking but the dispute widget requires a tracking number. The "buyer" received the items and is saying "they don't remember".
deltilogical
OP1 year agoSo today, 5 months later, "The buyer's payment institution sided with you and there's nothing else you need to do."
evry1nositswindy
·1 year agoIf the funds are on hold, it is because the credit card company is investigating. eBay has nothing to do with a chargeback other than hold the funds for the funding source. You will find out if it is found in your favor or not, but if you shipped without tracking, you have absolutely no proof of delivery. It will be up to the credit card company to decide if the charge was fraudulent or not.
Chargebacks can be won, but you only get one shot at providing a great PDF as your proof.
deltilogical
OP1 year agoTwo weeks on and Ebay is still holding the funds.
I wonder what the total funds being held by Ebay are at any one time.
deltilogical
OP1 year agoThanks for the useful advice above, basically the answer is someone robbed me and I have to pay for it. Its that simple. So, with the reminder of the $25 fee for having the audacity to dispute a chargeback, I refunded the "buyer". It was wonderful to be told I accepted the refund, several times they had to tell me I accepted the refund.
An essay on zerohedge last night was very timely, authored by Thomas Harrington via the Brownstone Institute:
"It is the story of how a managerial elite possessed of generalized contempt for the bulk of their fellow citizens and a slavish adherence to an extremely narrow, algorithmically-generated notion of “efficiency†has created scores of so-called idiot-proof systems that dehumanize and demoralize those who work in or engage with them.
And while these systems are wildly successful at walling off the corporations that design them from the need to listen to and mindfully serve those who buy their goods and services, they are not, as my little story above shows, even efficient in any meaningful sense of the term."
gone.c-33
·1 year agoIt’s a dispute about a $5 item not carmakers knowingly selling defective vehicles or tobacco companies continuing to sell cigarettes despite them causing cancers because it’s still cheaper to settle in court than to stop selling harmful products.
It’s really not that deep.
deltilogical
OP1 year agoI had posted here hoping there was a way to dispute the claim but you seem to be confirming this is abother example of the TechSociopaths in action.
Their motto is you can choose Yes or Yes.
I'm going to call the guy and let him know I will be registering this fraud with the FBIs cyberfraud site, the POst OFfice police and if 'm really annoyed I'll call the local police. Where there is smoke there is fire.
I just don't like being robbed.
momtoabeautifuldaughter
·1 year agoOkay spend your time doing that but without proof he has it...........
luckythewinner
·1 year agoNo, their motto is "use tracking if you want seller protection".
luckythewinner
·1 year agoIf the guy is benign, he will just laugh at you. If the guy is malignant, he will do some more damage to you and you may not even know he is the one doing it.
fern*wood
·1 year agoI hope you were just blowing off steam with that post, because that's like one of my brothers that tried to kill a fly in a window with a hammer instead of a fly swatter.
With the way some charges look on statements, sometimes they just don't recognize them. I had it happen before and after I contacted them, they apologized & cancelled the payment dispute. I highly doubt that would have happened had I threatened to report them to the FBI.
kensgiftshop
·1 year agoThat's true.
I've got one bill that's paid automatically every month and has been for a few years and every time I see it on my statement, it takes a bit to remember which one it is.
The way it's listed on the statement, has nothing to with the company it's for.
kensgiftshop
·1 year agoSorry, but there's nothing to dispute?
Without tracking showing it was delivered to the buyer, you have no proof they received it.
Without proof, you don't know if fraud is involved or not.
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoSorry, but there's nothing to dispute?
Without tracking showing it was delivered to the buyer, you have no proof they received it.
Without proof, you don't know if fraud is involved or not.
Further, philately is a handshake hobby.
The collector's word is their bond.
While most people are honest, philatelists are probably even more straightlaced.
They are a bunch who like rules, and order, and making things tidy.
The shipment is more likely to have been delayed than to have been lost and more likely to have been lost than scammed.
bashort
·1 year agomost sellers that ship cheap items without tracking do so knowing that they are playing the odds and some will go bad, when that happens they will simply ship another widget that they should of cost very near $0 to sell for $5 in the first place and do not worry about it. Or simply refund and not worry about it.
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoI send $5 items without tracking but...
And you pay less than $5 for the item including fees and packaging.
How much are you really out when you get a Claim?
(for that matter how much do you make when you get a sale?)
Not every transaction will go perfectly.
It can be more expensive to challenge a Claim even if you win, because time is money.
onefootflipper
·1 year agoThe bottom of the barrel stamp and postcard seller often have profit margins sitting at 25 cents or less (some actually lose money directly on each sale). So one refund can wipe out 10 sales.
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoTracking is not required by eBay. It is a Seller Protection against unwarranted Claims of non-delivery.
That being said, the seller is taking a gamble that there will not be any Claims, and that any Claims that do occur were because the shipments really never were received.
You have to understand your customer base.
There is a Cookie Jar Insurance thread on eBay Canada at the moment in which stamp dealer ricarmic details many years of his experiences with Cookie Jar Insurance-- that is not using tracked services on most shipments*.
https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/RICARMICs-Self-insurance-cookie-jar-statistics-to-end-of-2024/m-p/516636#M158474
TL/DR
Less than one percent of his untracked shipments result in a Claim in any year.
Now, philately is a handshake business. The customer demographic prides itself on its honesty.
If you sell Magic The Gathering cards, or designer sneakers, or reborn babies, or horse tack, your results may differ.
*Worth noting that the cheapest domestic Canada Post tracked service starts around $12Cdn.
rugerskick
·1 year agoChange your shipping to the least expensive that provides tracking.
Buyer pays shipping. You have proof of delivery. May not be the answer you're ready to hear, but it will solve your problem of phony INR claims.
12345jamesstamps
·1 year ago'without tracking'...I haven't lost anything in the mail in years without tracking.
If it's over 30 days of item sold on Delivery : 'estimated date of delivery'...there's not much a buyer can do.
Buyers I have had have open claims as long as 90+ days after delivery date...I decline to refund anything over the delivery date and I usually refund nothing and eBay closes case.
eBay allows buyers to open claims for any amount of days.
'ESE'...that would work if the tracking would work all the time...but it doesn't...not scanned as 'delivered' means a buyer gets a refund usually.
Chargebacks...I won my last one...I had one for 5 bucks a few years ago...same situation...I just refunded the buyer. Too much work in disputing a chargeback and such.
buyselljack2016
·1 year agoRemind them of the item and request that they close the chargeback because they have the item.
That will not work if they are challenging every charge on the card which sometimes is the case.
wastingtime101
·1 year ago^^ I agree with this suggestion. I find most buyers will ignore / not cooperate, but some buyers are honest and will contact their credit card to close the dispute.
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoThat happened to me, the buyer never said, but this is what I think happened (based on the chain of events).
Buyer contacts me to tell me he wants a bunch of RCM coin sets because his wife is from Canada and he thought it would be a fun surprise at Christmas. He spends $220 in my store.
A month later I get the chargeback. I message the buyer and remind him of the conversation he had where he said he was getting them for his wife for Christmas, and asked why he did the chargeback. Then I blocked him (which means if he answered me I wouldn't have seen it).
Four days later the chargeback is closed and all is good. I unblocked him. I figured out his wife was probably the one who did the chargeback because she didn't recognize the charge, and it was her Christmas gift so he didn't tell her about the purchase. Don't think I'd have wanted to be in that household while that discussion was taking place!! Anyway, I found it a bit amusing, and I unblocked him because he did the right thing and closed the chargeback.
C.
joe-9745
·1 year agohey just FYI check the mentor profile because most of them work for eBay and will provide an answer in their favor at most.
house*of*paws
·1 year ago@joe-9745
I'm curious to know which mentors work for eBay. I'm a mentor ... and I don't know of any that work for eBay. I certainly don't.
[To save you a little time: SEVEN (7) members responded to the OP up to now. TWO (2) out of the 7 are mentors: house*of*paws (me) and kensgiftshop. I didn't notice any difference among the answers the OP received from mentors vs. the nonmentors (except for yours) ... but maybe you do. I'm open to learning.]
wastingtime101
·1 year agoSorry to hear you're still upset about the dentures @joe-9745 .
The only responders here that work for eBay are clearly defined with an eBay logo and a blue highlight around their post, like this:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Report-eBay-Technical-Issues/New-Ebay-Preview-Bug-when-Creating-listings/m-p/34909326#M137745
evry1nositswindy
·1 year agoMentors do not work for eBay. We are just well-versed in the rules set forth by eBay. When we quote the rules and provide links, how can you dispute the facts? {I wish they paid us per post!}
deltilogical
OP1 year agoThe buyer isn't challenging receipt - they say they didn't recognize the charge. I have no way to confirm that the address on Ebay was changed or not. Ebay told me the transaction was good and to send it to an address which I did.
Most people are not going to pay $5 shipping on a $5 item.
"If you are going to accept the benefits of shipping without tracking then you have to be willing to accept the consequences." Thank you for your helpful comment!
ittybitnot
·1 year agothey say they didn't recognize the charge
@deltilogical
That reason suggests the buyer filed a chargeback (aka Payment Dispute). The typical response that would in most instances provide you with seller protection (from eBay) would be 'delivery confirmation'. Since you don't have that, you don't have much to 'contest' the chargeback.
If the buyer left you feedback, that might do it....i.e. Buyer left feedback for the transaction on XX/XX/2025 stating that they were pleased with the purchase signifying the items was ordered and received.
It may not fly, and you have to depend on eBay to actually send it on your behalf. If you lose, you get to pay an additional $20 for the pleasure.
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoFeedback doesn't work as "proof". When I got my first chargeback (after the MBG started), I challenged it because the buyer left feedback thanking me for the item. The response I got was "we don't know he meant to leave it for you, btw you owe us $20 for contesting this". I was so mad, it was a $4 item that was shipped international. I presumed I could win because they left feedback. I won't be making that mistake again.
C.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoWhich is why eBay Standard Envelope exists.
onefootflipper
·1 year agoPostcard and stamp sellers who already make nothing per transaction are extremely married to using stamps even though that is now the worst possible decision. They say "I get my stamps below face value", who cares, the time it takes you to write the address and attach the stamps is worth more money than just using the standard envelope.
You can't really help those who won't be helped.
I learned my lesson in trying to dispute a credit card claim, you always lose and then also pay an extra $25 penalty,
yuzuha
·1 year agoI sell $5 items with $5 (or more) shipping all the time.
house*of*paws
·1 year agoHi @deltilogical
How do you KNOW the buyer is a crook? You can send that evidence to eBay to show that the buyer is lying.
kensgiftshop
·1 year agoWithout tracking there's nothing to challenge, you have no proof they received the item.
luckythewinner
·1 year agoI send $5 items without tracking
Seller protection from INR disputes requires delivery confirmation. Even if you are able to challenge the dispute, you will lose and accumulate a "case closed without seller resolution" defect. Are you aware of the ramifications of these defects?
bashort
·1 year agoIf you are going to accept the benefits of shipping without tracking then you have to be willing to accept the consequences.
ittybitnot
·1 year agoI send $5 items without tracking but.....
@deltilogical
You know then that you will lose any INR claim for these items. You rely totally on the integrity of the buyer. When you start getting too many "crooks" to make this untracked shipping unprofitable, you will have to change your game so to speak.
Are you able to use the eBay ESE shipping? It has crappy tracking/delivery confirmation, but if you have to refund the buyer, you can at least make an insurance claim to get reimbursed.