Can also positive feedback be removed?
I have one very unusual situation where inexperienced buyer used feedback to ask us a question. This is surely not what feedback was meant for, so is it possible to remove it? Buyer from Vietnam did not receive his item yet, which is not unusual, takes very long time and I now sent him all the tracking details using message system, but I fear he left us very bad DSR along with feedback, which could ruin our ratings (and misguide other buyers). Because this was not feedback at all, but message/question, can it be removed?
22 comments
classical-lps
OP2 years agoI do know that about half of the buyers buying used LPs pay attention to DSR for item condition, which is not surprising. When you sell new stuff it's less of an issue, but with used items it does mater and buyers take it seriously. I believe it is so with most other areas where condition of used item is a mater of subjective grading and evaluating.
As already mentioned adjusting math behind the DSR calculation should be easy and simple, but I do not have high hopes really 🙂
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoOK, I understand. But, from my point of view: I sell mostly pre-owned clothing and some electronics and have for years. It's a terribly crowded field and I absolutely HAVE to stand out somehow, yet my DSRs go subtly between 4.8/4.9 and 5 and it seems to make no difference. Keep an eye on your sales - I do know from experience that how you present your items and conduct yourself means a lot more.
classical-lps
OP2 years agoI never heard about this policy, do you have more info?
Along with adjusted math for DSRs I would suggest small changes to FB policies. For example all negatives we ever got were either left for wrong item, either something happened in traffic, either buyer had no clue what he/she is buying. However, in every single one of them buyer never contacted us. So just a simple policy where buyer must contact seller before is allowed to leave negative feedback would prevent them all. If I recall it, not the single one was ill-minded or anything like that, simply new or inexperienced buyers didn't know what they are doing and/or made a mistake. Warning from the system to contact seller first is all that's needed.
But with current eBay structure and how it works I don't even see why do we need feedback at all. Back then 20+ years ago it made sense, transactions were between buyer and seller. Nowadays it is (almost) not so, transactions are between eBay and buyer and eBay has own set of rules and contracts with sellers which allow him to handle transactions on it's own (guarantees, refunds etc). Sellers are now more like employees of eBay. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but it is so. And under such circumstances I don't see how would anyone ever leave negative feedback or be unhappy. eBay (and most sellers anyway) guarantee the satisfaction or money back.
bennotbill
·2 years agoWasn't there an eBay policy that a buyer wasn't allowed to leave positive feedback with low basically negative DSR's? A smile and a stab.
classical-lps
OP2 years agoCorrect. So I can't do anything, except to get (somehow) this feedback to be completely removed (on the ground that it's not the feedback at all). So not only text to be removed but whole feedback line, which would also remove DSR impact. Which dropped from 4.9/5.0 to 4.7 next day, on 3 out of 4 categories (30 day ratings). But I'm not having high hopes, except if somebody from eBay reads this and is willing to help.
My suggestion on adjusting the math behind the DSR would make many positive impacts on everything related. It would cut out mistakes like this, discourage ill-minded competition to ruin somebody's ratings, but also lower the number of support contacts and most importantly create improved/trustworthy information to benefit the buyers. It would also avoid occasional misunderstanding of the system where new buyers would sometimes leave 3 or 4 stars when everything is exactly as described, believing this is correct so.
Adjusted math would then better separate those getting constant 4.8 or 4.9 and have been lucky because nobody made mistake with 1 star and those who are getting 5.0s from all real buyers and were unlucky to get one 1-star out of mistake or from competition.
inhawaii
·2 years agoI hate to ask the obvious but did you try to communicate and smooth things over with the buyer and possibly get them to agree to remove/revise the feedback. I would do this AFTER they receive the item and are happy.
nobody*s_perfect
·2 years agoThat is not possible, because the buyer left a positive rating.
annadryl
·2 years agoYou have three 4.9's and a 5 for communication, that's outstanding! Your feedback looks great and your listings are well done. You still ship worldwide and seem to be doing a great service to collectors. I agree with the above, don't stress it too much. It was never a perfect system by a long shot.
fm2000
·2 years agoGetting negative feedback removed, even negative feedback that is explicitly removable according to eBay policy, can be very stressful and time consuming and it is still not always successful. It just isn't worth the potential stress and wasted time to remove a positive feedback that no one will notice or care about. The DSRs will never be changed by eBay, and no one really looks at those anyway. Best to let it go, just not worth stressing over.
classical-lps
OP2 years agoOK, I see I will have to live with it, I don't want to report buyer on any ground because I don't believe he is ill minded or exactly guilty, he just made a mistake on how to deal with the issue. And system obviously does not allow me to correct it. Pity.
But while we are at it, does somebody know where and how to post suggestions on functionality improvement(s). Because I believe the math behind the DSR calculation can be improved with very simple addition, which is to cut off top and bottom 5% of rates. In many areas where such statistical math is used and "dirty" data needs to be eliminated it is done exactly this way. And end-result/rate would be much more credible and less mater of luck
This would eliminate all accidental mistakes, mistakes of leaving feedback for wrong seller, occasional malicious competition mischief etc
And buyers would have much more credible information, less influenced by unrelated und/or irrelevant circumstances (like here, what has item condition to do with the fact that item is late in arrival and buyer still didn't get it?)
Let me just show how can DSR be easily manipulated. You have 20 real buyers who leave you 5.0 for everything. Then you have one ill-minded fake/competition buyer who leaves positive feedback BUT 1.0 for DSRs. Or buyer who leaves it by mistake, like here. Your end result is 4.8 DSR. Not only is this wrong in a way, it is also misleading to the buyers. As I mentioned earlier, DSR is very important with what we sell and 5.0 or 4.8 makes a huge difference.
So, is there a way/mean to post this as a functionality improvement suggestion somewhere?
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoI understand what you're saying, but DSRs mean so little now that I doubt eBay would bother changing anything.
I'm not questioning your expertise in your field, but have to ask - are you sure they mean that much to your buyers overall? Or do you have a mention here and there about it that causes concern?
classical-lps
OP2 years agoSadly as I feared 3 of my DSR 30 day ratings dropped seriously. Even though we have valid tracking showing items is on the way, even though if buyer contacted us through messages we would have refunded the money no questions asked, crazy situation. We care a lot about our DSR, and we maintain it by doing everything possible to have happy customers and providing best service possible in all aspects.
And one such issue can ruin everything? This is so wrong.
To my knowledge there are 2 types of FB removal, one is by deleting inappropriate text and everything else remains as it was and the other type is technical removal of the entire feedback from the system, when also a DSR values are removed (and their impact on ratings)
I believe eBay should protect us sellers from such situations, what did we do wrong? As said if buyer contacted us by any other means we would have solved the issue immediately, but this is not right. Can someone from eBay jump in, I checked available options under seller protection but none seem to cover it?
bennotbill
·2 years agoIt's a greeny so why worry.
Many have feedback mistakes which are usually something like "lovely book thanks" when you sold them a trumpet. But as long as they are green..................
nobody*s_perfect
·2 years agoOP is concerned about his DSR's showing as 4.9.
Even if eBay removed the text, they wouldn't change the DSRs. Basically, a seller is stuck with almost any positive feedback comment; the removal policy is very narrow. eBay's policy pages about feedback removal don't even have a link for complaining -- they just explain why eBay might choose to remove an entire feedback comment.
https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/rules-policies-buyers/buying-practices-policy?id=4374
https://www.ebay.ca/help/buying/leaving-feedback-sellers/leaving-feedback-sellers?id=4007
classical-lps
OP2 years agoWhoever sells a lot internationally knows the state of mail services around the world, especially to exotic destinations. It didn't recover since Covid and some specific destination can take up to 3 months! Regardless of the fact that it's shipped priority/airmail. Buyers there know this already, same is with this guy who ordered from us twice before and received LPs 2 months later.
We do have lost item once per two years or so, don't remember when it was the last time, but in such cases we don't just prove with the tracking that we shipped it and that it's somewhere, dragging buyer into eBay case or whatever, we simply refund it in full without questions asked. Even when tracking shows it's in the destination country and then stalled.
I don't know why am I explaining this when question asked (in the first place) has nothing to do with it.
Question is if there is a way (and how?) to request feedback removal when it's not a feedback at all. One could use feedback to advertise something, or write political statements or like here ask a question, none of this has anything to do with the feedback and I believe there should be a way to remove it.
fab_finds4u
·2 years agoThe listing shows 12 days for International shipping from Croatia and they bought it 2 months ago.
bashort
·2 years agoI would not worry about it, very unlikely that anyone will ever read it
classical-lps
OP2 years agoThanks all, let me follow up quickly, with items we sell (used LPs) majority of buyers take DSRs seriously, especially for item condition. Because we don't sell tens of thousands items one bad DSR (say one star) can seriously hurt our DSR and impact our sales, while in reality it has nothing to do with real situation or facts. How do I request eBay to remove it? Even if on the ground of personal name, if not on the fact that it's not a feedback at all?
eBay doesn’t remove DSRs. Because they are based solely on buyers opinions.
DSRs are pretty much meaningless. IMO
nobody*s_perfect
·2 years agoYou might be able to get the text removed because the message includes the buyer's real name.
As noted in the other post, now he cannot leave you another feedback, so no matter how upset or confused he gets, he won't be able to leave you a neutral or negative rating. Your DSR for shipping time is still a 4.9, and nobody looks at them anyway, so IMHO it's nothing to worry about.
aeparts1
·2 years agoLook on the bright side, there is now no way for the buyer to leave negative feedback for you.
Buyers have been confusing feedback for communication for as long as I can remember. Since it is positive feedback it doesn’t qualify for removal and probably won’t be noticed by anyone.
DSRs are not counted towards your seller metrics or performance.