Buyers requesting a return refund when the buyer is not telling the truth
I do not understand why a buyer is rewarded with return and refund when the buyer lied about the the item as "not as described" This is a tool being used by buyers to cover their " buyers remorse" when they get caught up in the auction. Even if the seller is able to prove the buyer is wrong ebay policy allows the liar to get away with it. Meanwhile the seller is punished with $ held back and trying to resell the item again.
History has proven that trying to sell the item the second time always concludes with taking $ from the seller, it never sells for the same amount the second time around.
In my opinion when a buyer is PROVEN to have lied to get a refund, the seller should keep the money and the buyer keeps the item that won.
This problem will continue with liar buyers taking advantage of sellers until e-bay decides to make exceptions is these situations.
gwenscupboard
·1 year agoAll of the replies on this thread .....
HAS ANYONE ELSE NOTICED THAT THE ORIGINAL POSTER OF THIS THREAD HAS NOT COME BACK ? after being told the truth? (message 6 was the last)
dbfolks166mt
·1 year agoI do not understand why a buyer is rewarded with return and refund when the buyer lied about the the item as "not as described" This is a tool being used by buyers to cover their " buyers remorse" when they get caught up in the auction. Even if the seller is able to prove the buyer is wrong ebay policy allows the liar to get away with it. Meanwhile the seller is punished with $ held back and trying to resell the item again.
History has proven that trying to sell the item the second time always concludes with taking $ from the seller, it never sells for the same amount the second time around.
In my opinion when a buyer is PROVEN to have lied to get a refund, the seller should keep the money and the buyer keeps the item that won.
This problem will continue with liar buyers taking advantage of sellers until e-bay decides to make exceptions is these situations.
Just be happy the buyer didn't go the NAD chargeback routine in which case they are not required by the CC company to return the item, in most cases.
fbusoni
·1 year agoIn short, this is eBay's way of telling you to offer paid returns.
Buyer's won't have to lie because you, the seller, have demonstrated exceptional customer service.
AND if you combine paid returns with one-day shipping, eBay will promote your listings at no expense to you.
It's a win-win.
I'm surprised at how few sellers have figured this out.
bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
·1 year agoWhat do you sell? For this to work you would have to be selling items with cheap shipping and/or a very, very low return rate. Offering free returns is a good way to go broke really quick depending on what you're selling and is horrible advice for many if not most normal sellers.
gurlcat
·1 year agoActually offering free returns is a good way to have a very, very low return rate. The only time I would do 'Buyer pays return shipping' would be for a big heavy item, but I would almost never sell that sort of thing nowadays.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
I sell glass, crystal, porcelain and bone china mostly, as well as LPs and books, and get no returns (two in the last 20 years because the colors of the porcelain plates did not match the colors the buyer had at home). I have good sources -- there is lots of old money where I live and most people who shop cannot tell the difference between a $3 ceramic platter made for Target and a $225 porcelain platter made in 1879 by Havliand Limoges. (It's taken me a few years to educate myself.)
Shipping is not cheap for the first category -- I charge buyers a few dollars more for added shipping weight to ensure that nothing is broken en route, and as a result, nothing is broken en route. Thus no returns for broken items (one broken in the last 20 years).
My buyers are older, wealthier and more highly educated, pay close attention to reputation and feedback.
I choose my categories with great care. I don't sell "popular items," Chinese made garbage, coins, stamps, watches, trading cards, computers or parts, or anything electronic that plugs into a wall.
My average investment in an item to re-sell is about $3; my average sale nets about $38 or so. The most expensive item I ever sold on eBay was a book (cost me $1.99) for about $679.00. One hundred copies were printed, it was a niche item.
I started offering same day / 24 hour shipping and paid returns when I retired.
Doing so has generated at least ten times the number of sales I made before the switch.
Reverse psychology is extremely powerful.
Additionally, eBay rewards me for my customer service by promoting my listings fairly intensively at no cost to me.
The added revenue I have accumulated provides ample cushion in the event of a loss.
As for going broke -- I sell on eBay because its fun. I do not need the money. And all my inventory has been paid for since I started selling 25 years ago.
bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
·1 year agoJust as I thought what you sell items that have a low return rate. Your business model works for you but wouldn't for most people unless everyone started selling the same stuff you sell but then there would be too much supply and the demand would go down. To simply have a blanket statement saying everyone should offer free returns and its great for business simply implies you are only looking at it from your perspective when in realty most businesses would incur great loss in selling most normal items and paying for returns.
It would be feasible with a low return rate or a high volume item with a low cost of shipping. At $38 you wouldn't last selling most items with the same return policy of course you know that or else you wouldn't be selling what you're selling. How many items do you sell annually and is what you make able to support you if you weren't retired as your only source of income? I cannot remember my exact number but I believe its in the 2000 range between my accounts.
You could argue, "Well narrow your merchandise down to those items". Which would work but there are reasons against doing this as well, supply would be an issue for me. As for what I sell. I get several returns a week. I've had weeks were I was out over $1000 in pending returns alone. I don't know my average cost of shipping but daily I ship items that are $20-80 (sometimes $100) each just to ship. I offer next day shipping but almost always ship same day. Its not always feasible to offer same day shipping because if you get hit with a high volume day 15-20 items and they are not so easy to package up you may not have the time to get everything out so I like to leave a small cushion.
If I lived in an area where I had access to a readily supply of items such as those you sell I might be more inclined to do so. I have found a niche that works for me as far as sales goes but I also need the money and rely on it to pay my bills and grow my business. I don't do this for fun and if it fails my bills risk not getting paid.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
Thanks for your reply. The question one has to ask is why one is getting returns in the first place. One also needs to consider whether one's account can withstand a constant barrage of false INADs.
And I advocate everyone offering paid returns because that is what happens most of the time anyway, does it not? I do not ever read here on these forums that a seller got a remorse return, because eBay makes it extremely easy for the buyer to lie and claim an INAD precisely so they do NOT HAVE to pay return shipping. That burden falls on the seller.
I looked at your items and I can see why you get several returns each week. People who think they know how to fix their own appliances, for example, usually have no clue.
Why do people return items to you? And how many of those returns do you have to pay for?
You already ship in 24 hours. Adding paid returns (assuming you already pay for most of the returns already) would enhance your listing visibility, so potentially you'd make even more sales. And you would not be receiving false INADs because buyers would have a path to return an item without having to lie and accuse you of not describing it correctly.
Having said that, I do not know anything about the market for the sort of parts you sell so I could be completely incorrect in my assumptions.
But for most sellers, paid returns are not an additional burden because they are so rare from the get go.
You ask: How many items do you sell annually and is what you make able to support you if you weren't retired as your only source of income?
I sell about 1200 items annually, so about 100 each month. In the last 30 days I have netted about $3500.00. That sum (3500) would not be enough for me to exist on, even though I live alone with my dog... I live in northern Virginia (one of the most expensive areas of the country because of its proximity to Washington DC, which attracts all manner of naive and ambitious people who think that they can get a job there and influence events... haha!) only because my two kids are a 45 minute drive away in Maryland, and I enjoy seeing them once in a while. If it were not for them, I'd move in a heartbeat.
But ... the figure of 3500 is relatively low because I am not investing every waking hour into selling on eBay; nor am I under any particular pressure to move items in my inventory (which is all paid for -- that is, admittedly, another huge advantage that gives me tremendous financial flexibility). I have some pretty expensive antiques that dozens of people are watching but I have no intention of lowering the price because the items get more valuable with each passing day. AND they are already priced well below what others are asking for similar / identical items.
Every seller has multiple considerations that determine their eBay activities. So in that sense, you are correct, my advice to ship same day and offer paid returns is not remotely universally applicable. But I reckon that it is in fact doable for most people... I think that there is an irrational fear about an increase in returns which prevents sellers from making the leap.
I've shopped online ever since we have been able to do so and have returned one item -- a collar for my dog that was too small. I do not think that I am unusual. I'd guess that 99% of buyers are honest people who just want to receive what they paid for an enjoy it.
bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
·1 year agoWell you certainly have me possibly considering selling other, less burdensome items in the future. I do have a three story building with two stories filled to the brim with what I sell to get rid of. Right now my main focus is paying off my loan I took out to build the building for my ebay business. Once I do that I might quit altogether, but I'll likely let my listings slowly die off and do something else if things don't change.
When I first started it (returns) weren't as bad as it is now, not even close. The buyer's filing false INADs haven't been a major issue until more recently. I'd get a few a year. For the most part a good portion of my returns are remorse (which still cost me money/time) and I rarely (compared to the amount of returns I get) got INADS at all. I can absorb the loss for now financially but its more of a moral dilemma. I haven't been able to separate me the person from me the business. So one someone steals something I take it personal. Its one thing to be lied to because people just don't know something (how to diagnose/fix something), its another for nefarious reasons.
I try to be a good ebayer but it seems it's never good enough. I test everything, I ship as fast as I possibly can because I understand people count on me to get their items fast. I often get items out that were purchased minutes before the USPS closes. I clean everything, try and take lots of pictures and do a good job at my descriptions. None of that matters anymore. People can't be bothered to look at pictures let alone ready a short description.
Most of my returns and some of the INADs were often because people don't know what they don't know. Someone might buy a Whirlpool washer part thinking that part fits every Whirlpool washer ever made. Or they might misdiagnose an issue and when they install my part it doesn't fix the problem they blame the part.
This week most of my returns are INADs but that's not normal. Its just finally starting to get to me. Still dealing with trying to clean up a flood that left over 6 inches of water in my building which I'm still trying to finish all the interior work and that isn't helping matters. I do spend a lot of time on what I do but I was hoping time invested now would save me later on. I was hoping of bringing on employees and really expanding but I can't see myself doing that anymore. I've gotten to the point where I hate selling on ebay.
I do know accepting free returns would help with some of the issues as I'd have more leeway with ebay siding with me. Its just not to the point where I am losing more from INAD's than I am compared to remorse returns. If it gets to the point where I would have to accept free returns I would just shut down shop completely.
Trust me I wish your ways of doing things would work for what I do but its just not feasible. When shipping costs there and back would cost more than the item itself it just doesn't (Again we're talking often $20-$80 shipping one way) work when you get lots of returns. Heck even the cost of some boxes are $5-$10+ each even in bulk. I'm much like you are, rarely returning things I think I've returned one item that arrived damaged a Babe Ruth Bat card well over a decade ago with crease through the middle. I did once accidentally buy the wrong backhoe windshield and instead of returning it free of charge (which I thought would be unfair) I just sold it myself on ebay at a loss. Took a year or so.
I live pretty much two hours from anything worth noting and in a fairly poor area but yet one of the highest property tax rates in the country. Unless I go full picker it wouldn't be tough for me to make a living finding items like you sell. Finding items like I sell is easy and often cost nothing. I'm actually to the point where I am turning down items because I'm so backed up.
gurlcat
·1 year agoI really do sympathize. I mean I wasn't joking before -I can actually picture myself having a stress nightmare about being an eBayer with your kind of inventory. 🤣
Have you considered Facebook Marketplace, or even Craigslist? Or was that what your last paragraph was about, that it would be hard to get in-person buyers to come to your location?
gurlcat
·1 year agoYou talk about item categories and return rate like they're mutually exclusive, when really there are a myriad of reasons why returns happen and how they can be prevented. In another recent thread you brought up your recent negative feedback, and I believe (can't find that thread now) it was about buyers trying to get partial refunds. -I remember I replied that I can't stand that that and never issue partials unless I know the complaint is legit and I must own up to it, because my listing wasn't clear enough of I packed poorly. And I said I had taken apart my washing machine for a repair before so I knew how much labor and mess is involved, but you can't tell if the repair worked until you have it all reassembled and test it. And it may be hard or impossible to photograph the problem with a part after installation, but this buyer did at least try. So I could understand why they felt should get some money back for having to figure out a repair for the part you sent, which was either not brand new as advertised, or poorly packed.
Ooof, I forgot they were even a repeat buyer, and now you've replied to the comment, publicly accused them of lying. See, when I am reading the rest of what you say there, as a seller I know there could be some truth to it, but other (future) buyers won't have a clue what you mean. And NOW this buyer says (publicly) that you have threatened them! This is going to cost you so much more, in lost future sales, than $50.
In message #18 @showmecurrency4u said, "I have very few returns, but most returns (over 95%) are unjustified." -Same here. If you do things right, if you control everything in your power to control, the only returns are by true liars, scammers, and fortunately they are actually very rare on eBay.
Now, it is true that some item categories are bound to get more returns than others, including scam returns, and there are multiple reasons why that would happen with your main category -it's money people didn't want to spend in the first place, so maybe some of them literally lie, and I wouldn't be surprised if you sometimes get returns that turn out to be their old parts, and yep eBay would expect you to refund them anyway. And yes big fragile things are more likely to get damaged in shipping too. To be honest, your main category is nightmare fuel to someone like me who sells pretty little things weighing an ounce or two and made purely for indulgence. But unlike @fbusoni I do rely on this for bill money.
By the way, when you replied to him, you focused only on the part about geography, how you don't have local access to good sourcing like he does. Well, I have some such access for my jewelry sourcing, but not nearly enough. I get the vast majority of my inventory right here on eBay. Here's a box that just arrived today, looks like garbage but I know I saw some good stuff in the seller's photographs, stuff they didn't know was good. I'll list those pieces individually, photograph them better, and include the relevant searchable keywords in the titles and descriptions.
And by the way, only about 3 years ago I had zero interest in jewelry and knew nothing about it. Like fbusoni, I educated myself. And in my case it was a crash course, almost "by accident" because I was just having to sell whatever was in storage units I won (mostly blind to the contents) or in eBay "junk lots" that I got mainly for the coins and other collectibles. Before I knew it I had collected a bin full of jewelry I knew nothing about .... so one day I started digging and googling, and the rest is history.
Just for fun, go to eBay search and type in "junk lot". Or if you'd like to stick to what you know for now, include a word like "tools." See just how little money you can spend on some good-looking stuff to expand your repertoire. See if you can take some of your most nightmarish items off of eBay and replace them with things that are more enjoyable and less scammable.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@gurlcat
Never heard of "junk lot" till you just mentioned it above.
There is a thrift shop not far from me. The owner gets his stuff mostly at storage locker auctions.
He sells two types of merchandise: expensive stuff at $500 and above (he does these deals in his back office -- one day he showed me a Mont Blanc pen set that was worth almost 10 grand), and everything else which he puts out on the floor.
Last spring I walked into the shop and noticed that he had three toolboxes on a bottom shelf. I figured they were empty -- he had priced them at $10 each.
I lifted them and they were filled with tools. Not just any tools -- vintage Craftsman wrenches, ratchets, sockets and specialty tools, some antique. There were a few Snap-on tools included.
I hoisted all three tool boxes onto the counter.
I paid $30, and turned that into nearly $1,000 on eBay. (I know about tools from my days owning a small horse farm and fixing my own cars and truck.)
I â¤ï¸ junk lots. ðŸ˜
gurlcat
·1 year agoWell like I told him^ enter it in to eBay search, with or without additional keywords. IT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND.
By the way some sellers won't use the word "junk" so try "vintage" as well.
And heres' the 2 methods I do filtering/sorting, to get the best for cheapest.
-One way is to simply sort by Ending Soonest, to see auctions that are closing, in descending order. In this method the only filter I apply is "US only" because I don't want to pay a bazillion bucks more for international shipping, and some of the stuff the Brits call "junk" will break your heart, ha! If you want, you can also filter by 'auctions only' but sometimes I think it's worthwhile seeing BIN lot listings that are about to die with no buyer. It's educational and sometimes the seller has made a desperation markdown so it's actually worth getting!
-The other way is the opposite. Sort by Newly Listed, and filter US only, AND Buy It Now only. I have zero interest in seeing auctions that have 7 days to go, ha. But it's great to see really underpriced BIN lots before somebody else does and snatches them!
I have more tips but this should get you started.
bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
·1 year agoBecause they did lie. They have never purchased from me before. I have records from every person that has ever won anything from me. I also never threatened or attacked them. The item they were complaining about was a washer Spin Basket. The claimed it came ruined and unusable and that all of the water in the balance ring leaked out because it was broken.
It holds around 1/2 gallon of water, they originally send me a picture of the inside the box and it didn't have an ounce of water damage on it nor was the box itself damaged at all. All's I did was request pictures of the damage so I could make an insurance claim because I was originally going to let them keep it. They ignored my request repeatedly. And pushed the partial refund and let them keep the item once I saw the last feedback the left someone doing something similar I had had enough and was willing to pay both charges to get my item back. Why would they need to keep a damaged spin basket and only get $50 back. There is no fixing a broken balance ring on a spin basket.
Heck I just got my third negative because the buyer never read my listing. When they wrote me complaining about how I sold them something with cosmetic issues I simply pointed them towards my listing politely saying they must have missed exactly what they are complaining about mentioned in my listing, along with photos. Yet the feedback makes it sound like I denied a return (which they never requested) and was rude and that never happened. I am getting to the point where I just don't care anymore.
As for items. I'm smart and resourceful and have acquired certain sets of skills but the idea or working at home appealed to me. The things I like least about ebay are what I am doing right now. Sitting on a laptop and typing. The original plan was to hire someone who doesn't mind sitting doing this stuff and train them while I do the hands on stuff. Diagnosing/testing, etc. What's likely to happen is either part time or full time I might just to repair work as there is a major need for it in my area and I already have a company lined up who wants me to do it.
As for my nightmarish items, its most of them. The only items that don't cause issues are idiot proof parts. Anything mechanical or electronic can be problematic. I do get other items now and then and have an eye for what's worth money I just don't go out of my way to hunt them down. I tried to specialize in a certain set of items that were in high supply with a good demand.
I also don't like to waste items, I hate throwing out things that are still good that people can use. One of the things I love the most is recycling and helping keep things out of the landfill that shouldn't be there. Everything I don't sell gets scrapped, people bring me stuff every few days (to scrap since I have to go anyways) and some of it I end up listing. One of my favorites was the biggest Griswold Frying Pan I ever saw.
Even bulkier items like dryer drums I still sell locally since they are too large to economically ship. People love them for raised bed gardens and fire pits. So its not that I can't sell other things its just frustrating how policy changes have made it so difficult dealing with selling what just a few years ago wasn't that much of a headache. I have already invested over 200K in my location alone but things weren't this bad when I decided to go all in a just a few years ago.
gurlcat
·1 year agoJust to be clear, when you say "paid returns" do you mean paid by seller ('Free Returns') or buyer ('Buyer Pays Return Shipping' -for "remorse" reasons)' ? I always assume you mean 'Free' but even if I'm right I'm not sure it's clear to the person you say it to.
fbusoni
·1 year ago@gurlcat
I mean paid by the seller -- whether for remorse reasons (which has never happened to me in 25 years of selling) or for not as described.
Since remorse returns never happen to me, I have no fear of paying for them. And I certainly have made enough over the years to be able to afford to pay for them should they every happen.
gamersbaystore
·1 year agoYep. You get enough of those buyers lying about the item being not as described and ebay will put all kinds of restrictions on your ability to sell here, as well as charge you elevated fees. The fact ebay punishes sellers based solely on a scamming buyer's opinion says all one needs to know.
fbusoni
·1 year agoOffer paid returns and there won't be any reason for buyers to lie.
Problem solved.
jerseyboymusic
·1 year ago@brook-trouter
I have not read EVERY reply on here, but if you have a "no returns" policy in place, it forces the buyer to open INAD.
Offer "30 day returns, buyer pays return shipping" and you will avoid these issues, for the most part
inhawaii
·1 year agoI see lots of sellers saying this but it simply isn't true, for me anyways.
I have a no returns policy.
I can't even remember when the last time a buyer submitted a bogus INAD claim to return in item.
bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
·1 year agoI miss those days. I used to have a no returns policy and it actually worked well for awhile until ebay stopped actually reviewing false INAD returns and pressured me into taking 30 day returns. That coupled with a few policy changes and its gotten pretty bad. Of course what I sell does carry a lot of risk because many people cannot handle fixing their own appliance let alone actually diagnosing issues properly in the first place.
I could only imagine how stress free and easy going selling on here would be if I didn't have to deal with so many returns.
mtgraves7984
·1 year agoHistory has proven that trying to sell the item the second time always concludes with taking $ from the seller, it never sells for the same amount the second time around.
@brook-trouter
To address another of your points... I've found the above to be incorrect. It's been my experience that if an item sells once, it'll sell again. Adjust the price (raise it a bit) and relist it, hopefully for the right buyer this time. Good luck.
gurlcat
·1 year agoHeck if it's an uncommon item it can sell for MORE the second time; I've had that happen and it makes sense because the first time adds a data point to the established value of the item, for buyers who know how to look that up. And if it was an auction the first time? -Shoot, then a return is a joyful mulligan where you learned what someone will pay if the item is only listed for 7 days ..... so then you can take that amount and increase it by at least 25% for a BIN price.
luckythewinner
·1 year agoI do not understand why a buyer is rewarded with return and refund when the buyer lied about the the item as "not as described"
It's quite easy to understand, actually.
eBay did not see what was shipped or what was received, so they have no idea who is telling the truth.
eBay offers the buyer a money-back guarantee that is funded by the sellers, so they side with the buyer.
inhawaii
·1 year agoWhat if ebay implemented a new policy where all buyers who initiate a return MUST tell the truth?
gurlcat
·1 year agoSo was the stuff my dad used to say about Maui Wowie true? 😉
showmecurrency4u
·1 year agoI have very few returns, but most returns (over 95%) are unjustified. most are caused by people who know very little about what they are doing. I do make mistakes and accept a return and do not get angry very often. every seller should set how many inad, inr, etc numbers that they could not bid on my items. ebay should all of the all the seller to have control over who bid son our items. ebay has not been a company that looks after sellers.
chapeau-noir
·1 year agoSellers are a dime a dozen. It's buyers this site needs and they're going to look after their buyers (and shareholders).
I don't agree with some of what ebay does, but I know a struggling company when I see one, and eBay is struggling.
lakefor94
·1 year agoeBay should have implemented the BBE initiative worldwide about 10 years ago.
chapeau-noir
·1 year agoThough they might want to use it on their execs instead - despite all of the magical talk from CEO Jamie (I wonder if he sounds like that at home), I often have the feeling I'm on a rudderless ship. Though to be fair, I felt like that on Etsy after Silverman took it over, and Posh is looking like it, too. That pie is only so big, guys.
stevescho
·1 year agoI can't relate to this. I have never, ever, lied to a seller, even kept several items that were worthless to me (fit), and kept several other worthless items due to not inspecting right away. Plenty of lying sellers that didn't want to refund legitimate NADs but had to.
gurlcat
·1 year ago@brook-trouter This^ is what we have to keep in mind when we're tempted to castigate eBay as favoring buyers. It appears you don't have any recent feedback as a buyer, so maybe you've forgotten what being in those shoes is like here, but yeah, oodles of sellers who would joyfully rip people off they could.
And to that point, if you think about it any buyer can rip us off soooo easily if they want to, it amazes me all the time how rare that actually is. So I would just advise saving real outrage for events like that, not ones where you just end up back where you started, with your item in your hands.
robbie31415
·1 year agoYeah there is bad on both sides.
But buyers have multi layer protections. Even if eBay removed returns and said all sales are final. That would only increase chargebacks that buyers can lean on.
Ebays return processs is a way to get the seller their item back at least.
Also I agree it's very easy to rip sellers off and each seller has their own experiences. Majority of my domestic buyers haven't scammed me.
Sadly every transaction I've had in San Francisco has been a chargeback or fraud return. Also, I know many people haven't had issues with freight forwarder customers but I seem to always run into mostly the abusive ones who want partials or fraudulent returns.
I recently sold 10 drones on Walmart. 7 of them were scammers.
Walmart doesn't even let you dispute when they return in store. You just have to eat it. So eBay isn't the most buyer centric marketplace. Probably why I don't complain about eBay much. Amazon and Walmart already making me hate life.
gurlcat
·1 year agoDon't hate life Darlin', there's lots of good stuff in it. My recent sales have been so bad I've decided to bite the bullet and take on some gig delivery work to supplement my income, despite my health being a lot poorer since the last time I did "out there" work, not to mention my car being old and rickety, and this is funny -I have an iphone 11 sitting in my shopping cart right now because the '7' I've had for at least 5 years (it was already outdated when I bought it) -it can't update to the minimum IOS needed for the delivery driver apps. 🤣 So I literally have to spend a somewhat painful chunk of money just to start making money that way.
But you know what? Just being out of the house I'll get vitamin D from the sun, just walking to and from my car and people's doors will be more exercise than I usually get, just putting on a brief fake smile (repeatedly) will uplift my mood -these are scientific facts. So even though I don't really want to do this, I kinda look forward to it. With problems come opportunities; that's been my mantra for a long time, and not only have I found it true almost without fail, it also helps me avoid hating life.
lakefor94
·1 year ago@gurlcat
Hope the delivery gig works out well and those fake smiles turn into real ones.
Exercise is paramount for me at pushing 70. Have to lube those old joints as consistently as I can.
Best of luck.
chapeau-noir
·1 year agoThe only way eBay can determine anything is if they have the item itself in their hand - that's the ONLY 'documentation' that can count, because beyond that, it's a she said/he said situation and way too much time spent adjudicating.
gurlcat
·1 year agoIf you just offer free returns you won't have to spend time being angry about liars. All other major merchants take returns (usually free) so that is what eBay is up against, competition-wise. If you want a global customer base, you must go by the global platform's user agreement. If you want 'all sales final' you could have a yard sale. Or I think Craigslist is still a thing.
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoThree false positives in six months is not only likely to get you three shiny Defects but:
Who did you think would be reading your Feedback Left for Others?
Not the buyer, they got their refund.
Not eBay, they accept the FB as a positive for the buyer.
Not other sellers. With over 85% of transactions being Fixed Price or Buy It Now, we don't meet our customers until they have purchased.
The most likely reader is a future customer who may not want to deal with a seller who misspells "d**chebag", or calls a customer "stupidest in 20 years".
dbfolks166mt
·1 year agoThree false positives in six months is not only likely to get you three shiny Defects but:
Who did you think would be reading your Feedback Left for Others?
Not the buyer, they got their refund.
Not eBay, they accept the FB as a positive for the buyer.
Not other sellers. With over 85% of transactions being Fixed Price or Buy It Now, we don't meet our customers until they have purchased.
The most likely reader is a future customer who may not want to deal with a seller who misspells "d**chebag", or calls a customer "stupidest in 20 years".
I pretty much consider the feedback left for buyers to be worthless these days since all they can receive is positive feedback checking it is pointless. As a seller I never look at it unless, like you, I am checking something related to a post on this forum.
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoLet me share the Good News about Cookie Jar Insurance!
This is just adding a few pennies to every asking price as a sort of self-insurance premium against transactions that go bad.
Although each of these Bad Transactions is painful there are really very very few of them.
How many have you had in the past year? And as a percentage of sales?
If there is a problem you use the virtual pennies in the virtual Cookie Jar to pay for the Return Shipping Label, or cover the difference in profit between the first sale and the second,
or send out the red sweater you sold instead of the blue sweater you shipped by accident.
Because Bad Transactions can start on either side. (See Post #2).
While it takes a while to build up, many sellers have reported that the Cookie Jar is actually a profit centre.
Not every sale will go perfectly.
Most people are honest.
Claims are disagreements not fights.
It's business, not personal.
And NO RETURNS does not mean NO REFUNDS.
vintagecraze50
·1 year agoVery good advice and also, you increase prices by a small amount on selected inventory to make up the difference.
dhbookds
·1 year agoThere have been a few posts over the years of buyers complaining ebay wouldn't let them bid.....beyond that we know nothing....and I doubt many that actually lose that status talk about it. And we have no idea what caused them to lose the status. As said, a no return policy requires a buyer to state Not as Described in order to get their money back. Lots of posts from sellers who get the item back in same condition it was sent.....therefore concluding it was a remorse reason........ But the bottom line is the buyer get the refund and seller gets the item back.....hopefully in the same condition......
inhawaii
·1 year agoBecause ebay does not know the buyer is lying.
isaiah53-57
·1 year agoYeah well when a seller of 10-15 years with 100% feedback gets involved in a case against a 0 feedback buyer on a pricey item and the picture of the NAD item they add to the case was taken off the web or they are claiming the pkg was empty when received, but the PO shows it was delivered at the appropriate 14oz weight and the box was fine -
Yeah they know the buyer is lying, but that wont stop the site from finding in their favor...
robbie31415
·1 year agoI'm not going to argue about the buyer centric policies and that the buyer can easily abuse the policies.
However, one part is have issue with what you said is that the "PO shows it was delivered at the appropriate 14 oz weight".
I disagree with this statement. There is no weight validation at delivery.
It's more assumption that the package remained at the weight when it ran through the scanners. It's most likely it did, I'll agree to that.
gurlcat
·1 year agoCan we ratchet it down a notch maybe? No need to strawman a garden variety return into some ultimate nightmare scam. Anyone who dwells on hypotheticals like that probably shouldn't be selling here.
albertabrightalberta
·1 year ago@gurlcat - consider the source.
isaiah53-57
·1 year agoFirst, you focused on the examples and completely missed the point of the post - and second, you referred to the everyday examples I posted as "nightmare" scenarios - And somehow you spin it into I'm the one making a fallacious "strawman" statement? Wow...
What I said was:
"Yeah well when a seller of 10-15 years with 100% feedback gets involved in a case against a 0 feedback buyer on a pricey item and the picture of the NAD item they add to the case was taken off the web or they are claiming the pkg was empty when received, but the PO shows it was delivered at the appropriate 14oz weight and the box was fine - Yeah they know the buyer is lying, but that wont stop the site from finding in their favor."
I can rephrase the post to appeal to your sensitivities, but the point will remain the same - So in order to address the fallacy of irrelevant conclusion, and also the straw man fallacy of your reply...
how about this:
When a seller of 10-15 years with 100% feedback gets involved in a case against a 0 feedback buyer on an item - Yeah, they(the site) is aware the buyer is lying, but that wont stop them from finding in their favor.
Better?
gurlcat
·1 year agoSure, better, since you took out the stuff which would result in the seller not getting their item back. But still a strawman. -The OP did not say anything about the buyer's feedback being 0. They just claimed they had proof of lying, but never elaborated.
isaiah53-57
·1 year agoI never said the OP's situation involved a 0 feedback bidder - I was replying to inhawaii's post who said "ebay doesnt know when a buyer is lying"(paraphrased) -So I gave him examples of how ebay DOES KNOW when a buyer is lying - How on earth can that be construed as a straw man fallacy?
It is you that misconstrued, misunderstood, and misrepresented my post as well as used a REAL straw man fallacy in the doing...
fbusoni
·1 year agoHe's not! 🤡
luckythewinner
·1 year agothe PO shows it was delivered at the appropriate 14oz weight and the box was fine
I have never seen USPS delivery confirmation for a package that shows the "approximate" delivery weight or the condition of the box.
Can you show us an example of that, or how to find it on the USPS website?
albertabrightalberta
·1 year agoAnyone who sells long enough feels your pain but ebay cannot determine whether the buyer is telling the truth or if he's remorseful so ebay will always resolve NAD claims in buyers' favor.
Many buyers see "no returns" and assume they need a reason to return their item so they may claim it's NAD.
Prior to having a return policy, I did have a statement in my listings to the effect of accepting returns if the buyer isn't happy with the item. Some buyers still lied in order to avoid paying return shipping and there's nothing we can do to stop a liar.
But since changing my return policy to "30 day returns, buyer pays return shipping," I haven't seen any uptick in returns. And the few remorse returns I've had were with honest buyers.
My conclusion: if a buyer is going to lie, they'll lie whether there's a return policy or not. And as trite as it sounds, it's a cost of doing business.
brook-trouter
OP1 year agoEbay can determine when the buyer is not telling the truth. When proper documentation is provided. I did this and it does not matter this is a fact.
lakefor94
·1 year agoEBay is not going to look at a seller's documentation.
Process the return, get your item back and sell it once again.
If the buyer would lose an Item Not As Described return case with eBay, all they have to do is file a dispute with their Credit Card issuer and they will win. At that point you lose the item and the money because the credit card issuer will not require a return.
brook-trouter
OP1 year agoSo just let them get away with it and there are no Consequences for it. Buyers remorse it not a reason to reward them for making a mistake!
fbusoni
·1 year ago@brook-trouter
Like @albertabrightalberta, I have a 60 day paid return policy.
In 25 years of selling, I have had two returns, and I happily paid for both.
The reason I say "happily" is that the occasional return -- whatever the reason -- is a very, very small price to pay for good customer service when one has made hundreds of thousands of dollars of profit selling.
Yes, buyers get away with all sorts of things (if all you have gotten is a phony NAD 0r a non paying bidder then you should count your blessings) and it can be irksome. But that is the nature of online selling, and it is utterly pointless to get frustrated over or stand on principle, because morality rarely if ever enters the equation here, especially these days when it seems life has become a long series of transactions with little to no emotional or sentimental content.
lakefor94
·1 year agoBuyers can lose their return privledges on eBay. No one here knows exactly how many bad transactions and them being reported by sellers it takes to lose the eBay MBG protections.
We do get a LOT of sellers that come through here claiming false INAD returns and when community members take a look at the sold listing, it turns out the seller was deficient with information in the listing thus causing the return.
brook-trouter
OP1 year agoWhen has a buyer even lost the ability to bid? I have seen Several repeat non payers continue on without any ramifications.
lakefor94
·1 year agoIn your block bidders option, you can choose as to when they can or can't bid or buy your items.
They can lose their MBG privledges. At that point many of those thieves use feedback extortion as their tool of choice to extort sellers and then they can use their Credit Card issuer if their account is still in good standing. They can wear that out as well.
gurlcat
·1 year agoWhat do non-payers have to do with lying-returners?
inhawaii
·1 year agoEverybody knows that non-payers are also lying returners. It's a known fact. 😉