Buyer wants to return a poster because we used a poster tube to mail a poster?
Sold a Lobby Card (its a poster of sorts but smaller like 11X17)
We shipped it in a 4 inch tube rolled, that way it wont bend or crease. We could ship it flat with cardboard but from experience this leads to bends by USPS/UPS since its a flat square and easily bendable among many boxes along the way. So we ship in a 3" or 4" tube making sure it doesn't crease or bend. We used 4 inch tube on this one because the paper was thicker like cardboard but still bendable. If we used a 2 inch, it would have creased so we went with a 4 inch tube.
Buyer got the item and wants to return because
Return Reason
Doesn't match description or photos
Enclosed is the picture they submitted. There are no creases or bends. The roll effect is simple to remove when framing it or just flatting it back on the table.
Isn't this just ridiculous? Now they are returning because they don't like that we used a tube and didn't tell them we were going to use a tube? What? It got there safely? I could understand if it was creased or bent but the gripe is that it was a poster tube shipped and not flat?
Told them if we ship this flat, there is definitely a higher chance of a bend that way than with a poster tube. Offered them a partial refund, will see what they say.
Advice appreciated to learn or not make this situation occur again? I have sold posters for many years without issues other then UPS bending posters but those were insurance claims, this one arrived without damage but rolled. Never have experienced this kind of return based on way we shipped this? Its not even damaged?! Weird.
I received my item rolled. I do not want a rolled lobby card. It is not stated anywhere that the item would be shipped rolled. If I had known that it was to be shipped, I would not have purchased it. Therefore, I would like to return it.
Enclosed is the picture they submitted. There are no creases or bends. The roll effect is simple to remove when framing it or just flatting it back on the table.
Isn't this just ridiculous? Now they are returning because they don't like that we used a tube and didn't tell them we were going to use a tube? What? It got there safely? I could understand if it was creased or bent but the gripe is that it was a poster tube shipped and not flat?
Told them if we ship this flat, there is definitely a higher chance of a bend that way than with a poster tube. Offered them a partial refund, will see what they say.
Advice appreciated to learn or not make this situation occur again? I have sold posters for many years without issues other then UPS bending posters but those were insurance claims, this one arrived without damage but rolled. Never have experienced this kind of return based on way we shipped this? Its not even damaged?! Weird.
westchestervillage
Posted 8 months ago · Edited 8 months ago·Last reply 8 months ago
57 comments
ccomic
·8 months ago@gurlcat
Same here, but the description is different. When I buy something, sometimes the auction listing will say something like "description changed, click here to see the item you purchased", but if we were not the buyer, maybe we just see the updated description?
stuff4divas
·8 months ago@westchestervillage probably not the real reason, sounds like buyer's remorse, at least they did not create some sort of damage to the item
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoThat's what I am thinking too. I do think that I ran into a serious lobby card collector perhaps too but if I were a serious lobby card collector, I would pre message the seller to make sure they ship it a certain way for my preferences if I was that serious.
Though, I do take every package I mail out very seriously and make sure it arrives not bent or creased but yea I think this could be a remorse situation. I'm just surprised thats the photo they used as the NAD. I was expecting some damage from USPS or the tube. At least the buyer wasn't a scammer.
Just I think Im going to ship lobby cards flat if they are pictured flat or add something to the description. I take some responsibility for I guess not adding how I will ship this in the description. Gotta understand that you have to spell out EVERYTHING. lol
linenandlaceltd
·8 months agoI'd tell them that's how posters are shipped, and that's how you buy posters at a store...in a tube. But sure, return it. If there's any damage from how they return it to you, you can take care of that then.
Definitely include how you ship in your listings, but unfortunately even then some buyers don't read and will be upset. But at least you can always point it out that you mentioned it in the description for their knowledge. It's on the buyer to read it, but lets eBay know you did your absolute best.
I sell sport coats and suits, and have always stated how I ship them, but if the buyer prefers I ship in a box, to let me know ahead of time. Had a buyer upset with "package damage" of his suit, even though nothing happened to the suit itself. One of the reasons he left negative feedback was because of the package damage. Honestly, from the photos it looked like someone took a knife to it with clean cuts and managed to not harm the suit itself, so I'm suspicious of him actually doing it himself.
You can cover yourself as much as you possibly can, but when dealing with certain people, they're still going to be a problem because they're going to find a way to be one. You have to factor that in when you sell, unfortunately. Thankfully, most people aren't that way.
iamalwaysright
·8 months ago@westchestervillage I sell a lot of clothing mainly shirts and tops. Every year I get about 2 or so buyers who complain that the clothing they received is wrinkled because I shipped it folded into a poly bag. I then apologize to them (😑 pfft) and simply tell them to file a return in ebay for a refund. Some of them go thru with it, some of them I never hear from again.
For the buyers that go thru with filing the return and actually sending it back to me, I refund them as promised and add to my blocked list. Some of them throw in their two cents advising me on how I should package my items next time. I thank them for their advice. Then I change nothing and continue with business as usual.
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoLove it! Thanks!
adamcartwright
·8 months agoThis is a great discussion, because I have some lobby cards I need to list.
Giving as heads-up, as @inhawaii and others have suggested, is a great idea.
I have done that when listing large needlework canvases. One buyer did message asking me to ship it flat.
Hopefully, your buyer will return the poster in tip top shape.
tobaccocardyahoo
·8 months agoI would not ship a lobby card rolled. I avoid shipping anything rolled due to surcharges for tubes. Your buyer might have been prone to complain because he received a rolled lobby card and had to pay a premium price to ship it.
I ship lobby cards in a stayflat mailer of a size that is not surcharged. I use only USPS, never had any damage.
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoYea I kinda see their gripe. I should have put it will ship in a tube on the listing. I just thought they will frame it and it goes back into flat as long as there are no crease but I see both sides. I will try to ship lobby cards flat moving forward. Wish the buyer would have messaged me before buying too, its not that I can't do it just thought let me make sure it gets there safely and not bent or creased and it didn't but rolled. Just caught me off guard a bit to see a claim for NAD.
luckythewinner
·8 months agoBuyers have LITTLE incentive to do extra work to help the seller, because buyers have a money back guarantee that comes out of the seller's pocket.
Sellers have EVERY incentive to do extra work to help the seller, because buyers have a money back guarantee that comes out of the seller's pocket.
gurlcat
·8 months agoWell this is awkward. I keep trying but failing to figure out why you are here pretending that you didn't put that in the listing. Did you really even get a return? What was your real reason for starting this post?
Now whether a seller's listings should include words like 'crap' that's up to you. But I promise, responding to feedback by calling a buyer a "low IQ clown" and "low IQ mouth breathing buyer" -that is definitely costing you sales. I would never buy from a seller after reading that.
ccomic
·8 months agoI think the listing points to a URL that keeps changing. Now its a little different then even what you posted.
gurlcat
·8 months agoI found that in their sold listings (this particular kissing image).
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoLOL
It was added after that incident. That other feedback was for that crazy person that messaged us a few hours after ordering on a sat/sun. Don't have to explain myself to you here about that order. This is about the poster return not about that order, also love how you ignore the thousands of positives and what they read, all glowing but one crazy buyer and you join their circus.. Go ahead and don't buy from us. We could care less selling to someone like you tbh, in fact thank you for letting us know.
ccomic
·8 months agoYes, if the item was flat when you sold it, it should remain flat. Making assumptions about an acceptable way to treat it after the sale is dangerous.
Years and years ago I ordered some out of print books from a local bookseller. They were about 8 years out of print and I was shocked she was able to find them. So they arrive and I go to pick them them and they are both price clipped. I asked if she did it and she admitted to doing so, presumedly so I wouldn't know she charged me more than cover price. I already knew they were more than cover price. Here were two books that survived pristine in storage for 8 years and the first thing that happens to them when coming out of their time capsule is they get price clipped. It was so unnecessary. It still saddens me when I think about it, not so much the change in value, but that they survived so long by some miracle just to be defaced because they briefly passed through the hands of someone who didn't care about book collecting.
12345jamesstamps
·8 months agoI sell stamps....some have been folded.
I do mention twice...'stamp strip previously folded and will be mailed folded as noted'.
And I do take 2 photos showing the item folded as well as not folded.
Some potential buyers just don't think.
And some buyers who might return something will be or might be awful at re-packing item and shipping it back.
I am familiar with those 'theater posters' they used to put inside a movie theater.
I have quite a few and they are flat with a cardboard background.
simba6
·8 months agoJust issue a return label. You still might get lucky as many buyers never get around to sending items back.
zobal99
·8 months agoWhen dealing with the public you will sometimes run across some of low mentality
ccomic
·8 months agoNot calling you out specifically, but in general, it has really surprised me on these forums the level of contempt some sellers have for their customers. I can understand buyers and sellers calling each other scammers all too often, but I don’t see many buyer messages questioning a seller’s mental capacity. I don’t understand all the buyer bashing that goes on here and I don’t think it is healthy for the community.
tarotfindsandmore
·8 months agoAgreed. Though, in fairness, plenty of sellers who come here looking for help do end up getting bashed as well.
Also, this is the "selling" board so many of the folks dropping in are here because of an issue with a buyer. I suspect the "buying" board has the same level of hostility toward sellers (not sure about that, however, as it's not a board I visit).
Personally, I try to avoid bashing buyers too much (though I'm certainly guilty of doing it in the past) just because you never know who's stopping by and I do use my seller ID to post on this board. I'd hate to alienate anyone just because of one annoying transaction. I have had my fair share of exasperating interactions, but it does me no good to fixate on the buyer. Just take the lesson and move on.
gone.c-33
·8 months agoLobby cards are printed on heavier stock than even your regular high quality poster and rolling them for shipping can definitely give them an curve that can be difficult to get rid of.
It’s a shame you had to learn this way, would probably have been a nicer experience if a buyer had asked ahead of time and let you know this could lead to issues with collectors so you could have adapted your shipping method but this is a valid SNAD.
luckythewinner
·8 months agoI sell posters, and I always disclose whether they will be shipped rolled or flat.
That aside ...
Advice appreciated to learn or not make this situation occur again?
Didn't the buyer make it crystal clear how to make sure it does not happen again? Disclose your shipping method in your listing (flat vs. rolled).
The roll effect is simple to remove when framing it or just flatting it back on the table.
Some buyers do not think they should have to go to extra work to restore an item to the way it was before it was shipped. Rolling does change the item, and it is not always easy to make a rolled item flat again - not to mention there is a risk of creasing it or damaging it when you do so.
IMHO you are missing the point when you insist that you know better than your buyer what he should want or expect. Because if you had simply disclosed that it would be rolled when shipped, your buyer would have skipped over your listing and there would not have been a transaction to argue over.
ccomic
·8 months agoI usually agree with most of the folks that post here, but am on the buyer's side in this case. If I am going to receive an item in a condition other than shown in the listing photos, it needs to be clearly spelled out. It is not up to the seller to decide how much damage an item receives in shipping should be acceptable without at least making it clear in the description.
tarotfindsandmore
·8 months agoFrom here on, include the follow in all listings for items you ship in tubes:
Please note printed materials such as posters, prints, and lobby cards will ship in tubes in order to avoid creases/bends/damages during transport.
Use a bold font and put it right up front before the item description.
a_c_green
·8 months agoYou could even include a stock photo showing the intended mailer with a sample item partially visible inside. I did that once when selling a vintage item with its original box, and I included a photo showing the box folded flat, as it would be for mailing.
That aside, when I looked at the photo of the curled poster here, I thought, "That's it??? That's what you're complaining about? Just stack some books on it for a week or so; it'll be fine." You could even try rolling it back the other way against the mailing tube, to help get it started with flattening out. I have plenty of vintage paperwork around here and never had a problem getting any piece flattened out as needed.
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoThank you. This is perfect and will start adding this to the listings. Appreciate it.
thelongball
·8 months agoJust to let you know Lobby Cards are not posters to those who collect them. Serious collectors of these collect them flat. Lobby cards were sent to Theaters flat to be used in their Lobbies to promote upcoming movies coming out soon. There are a plastic type holders made for storage of them called top loaders. They are a bit expensive, but they keep the piece in Mint condition. In any form of collectable's condition is the key to its value. Doesn't matter if from Stamps to Cookie jars. Condition is the key. You just ran into a serious collector. Maybe even a dealer who had a customer lined up to buy it. I deal in trading cards and its the same thing with them. So many times I've bought cards on eBay that looked real nice and then the seller puts them in rubber bands or in a sandwich bag to ship them. That is the killer of cards in the worst way. So I can understand the buyer not wanting the piece you sent. To avoid this it is best to say its shipped rolled in a listing. By the way there are Lobby cards that can be worth thousands of dollars. Usually its older ones. Collectables should always be researched before listing, or a seller can cheat themself out of a lot of money. One man's junk is another man's treasure is a very old saying. Before rushing to judge the buyer as crazy or goofy, look for the why they are upset. Put yourself in another's shoes. If you receive a negative over this, don't take it in the wrong way because the buyer may just be warning serious collectors to stay away.
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoGood advice. Thank you.
albertabrightalberta
·8 months agoI'm not disagreeing that @westchestervillage shipped the poster in the most appropriate way.
My point is that for a NAD claim, it doesn't matter; the buyer will get a refund, either with or without a return and with or without ebay intervention.
shire123
·8 months agoJust to play devil's advocate here for the buyer. Maybe it's possible the buyer wanted to hang the lobby card on the wall without any framing??? I know that sounds kind of stupid but it is possible.
I agree the seller sent the lobby card by a method that would be the best. But there could be a valid reason for the not as described request.
meme6253
·8 months agoYou shipped it properly, This customer was probably hoping you would offer them a discount or something, Because their reason seems completely unreasonable.
ccomic
·8 months agoI think the most honest thing to do would have been to roll it up first then take your listing photos of the result and sell that.
ccomic
·8 months agoI bought a dust jacket for a book once that came rolled, and it really isn't 100% reversable.
Setting expectations is the key. It is obviously possible to mail it flat without creasing by boxing it. Perhaps if it meant enough to the buyer they would have paid more for that option. It is a bit annoying to me when a seller decides what is OK to do to my item, and I might have said something as well. Would I ask for a return? Hard to say. I didn't return the rolled up dust jacket, but I wasn't happy about it either. Rolling and then attempted unrolling probably cut its value in half.
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoI understand what you're saying but there also needs to be communication from the buyer pre-buying making sure it can get done or accomedated. With the way the metrics work here, can't expect a seller to contact a buyer and ask them what kind of box they want us to use for over 50 orders and then wait for all 50 to respond back before your shipping due date arrives. Just not feasible. Not even on Amazon. As long as the item arrived without damage, its fine. If you don't message me before the sale the buyer also can't expect for us to know their wishes. Works both ways. I would have loved for this buyer to message us before to make sure or see if we could do that for him, we probably would tell him it would get damaged flat but assure him a 4 inch tube is best and it was, it arrived undamaged. He also could have been like, nah wont buy it, and that's ok.
I would have sent that dust jacket flat that you speak of, that's smaller and easy to handle that's how we ship magazines flat with cardboard. This is a poster that is about 11X17 and not easy to sent flat with cardboard and not risk damage. There is nothing wrong with a 4 inch poster tube as long as you don't bend the poster or crease it, you just flatten it back when you frame it, I def. don't want creases or bends either and would understand if a buyer is mad about that. I would be too. Just in this case, it arrived fine with no bends or creases just rolled but again you frame that and it flattens out.
Buyers need to also message sellers pre sale with specific demands on what methods to use. Can't do it as a seller with 50 some orders and expect to get answers from each of them before shipping anything out. Its just not feasible at all.
participatrophy
·8 months agoSo a buyer whose wishes are that an item will arrive in a state not materially different from how the listing has presented it: 1) can't expect you to know that, 2) is expected to know that's not how you intend to ship it, and 3) needs to communicate pre-buying to make sure that can be accommodated. Do I have that right?
Your use of the word bend is tripping me up here. To my way of thinking, bends can either be sharp or smooth. A sharp bend in cardstock would create a crease. A smooth bend in cardstock would create an arc. What constitutes a bend in this context?
The same principles that lend plywood its strength and dimensional stability can be applied to very good effect with corrugated cardboard for shipping something like this.
cityslickercreations2004
·8 months agoOffering buyer paid returns allows you to deduct the shipping portion of a remorse return. I believe the window for a return can be as short as 14 days.
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoAhhh, that's true. Forgot about that. Thank you for this reminder. Great point.
soh.maryl
·8 months agoIf I read the OP's original message correctly, this will be an "item not as described" return, not a remorse return, so option to withhold shipping portion is not available.
mtgraves7984
·8 months ago@cityslickercreations2004... 🙌
@westchestervillage
Late to this party, but if you're considering changing your Return policy... go ahead and do 30 Days. That will give a TRS seller (like you) the added benefit of reducing the amount of the (impending) full refund if a different/damaged/devalued item comes back to you. It's one of the last seller protections left... I'd offer that you use it.
cityslickercreations2004
·8 months agoThank you. I currently offer a 30 day return window. Some items still have free shipping because I would like them gone. This last USPS shipping adjustment forced me to abandon free shipping on most items.
cityslickercreations2004
·8 months agoReturns are always disappointing for both sides. Frankly, this buyer irks me and it is not even my sale.
I agree with christworks, they are a DA.
As stated by others, you have to accept a return with a prepaid label or refund without any return.
They may be fishing for a partial refund. Please, don't be so quick to offer a partial refund. Make them ask. That poster was received in pristine condition. It needs to be framed not pinned on a corkboard.
If you opt for a return, I hope the buyer returns the poster in a tube (ironic, eh?) and not folded in an envelope.
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoHa! Yea. Thanks. The irony they would have to ship it back in that big beautiful 4 inch (expensive) tube with caps. lol I definitely refund and do returns, you're right though, I shouldn't have quickly offered a partial refund. I just told him that look the poster is not bent or creased, keep it / frame it / use it, etc. and here's the postage refunded basically. Trying to still be nice despite what he's doing.
Just hope its not like buyers remorse hidden by something dishonest like 'arrived not as described' especially when he submits that picture as the evidence. I'm like wow. Not cool. We take great pride in our shipping methods and send everything as if we are buying it for ourselves. Can't control damage by USPS or UPS but that's why we have insurance but for sure we do ship everything super careful and this arrived in great mint condition. As you know that roll is not damage, it flattens out easily when framed just don't think the buyer is being honest and why I am confused about this I guess.
Thanks for the advice, nonetheless!
inhawaii
·8 months agoJust wanted to add...
USPS used to make these triangular Priority Mail boxes that were nice for shipping rolled posters. Offers as much (or more) protection as a tube but gives you a little more space so the poster does not have to be rolled so tightly. Not sure if they still make them.
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoYea, we use them for the longer 27 X 40 posters, we put them in a tube and then one of these triangular tubes for double protection but the triangle ones without a tube inside of them, def. gets bent by UPS and USPS more than usual. Def. needs a tube, that triangular box is great for added protecting with a tube inside and not just the bare poster. Had to start putting a tube inside them and also the triangular one.
inhawaii
·8 months agoSounds like you know exactly what you're doing. 😉
buyselljack2016
·8 months agoYup, without question those triangle tubes need additional reinforcement.
They have a very low "crush" rating😉
stainlessenginecovers
·8 months ago@inhawaii they still do, but they are 24" long, causing an additional charge by USPS to ship them ($4 over 22") and they also do a 38" one, $15 more (both plus weight of shipping). I used to use them all the time to ship our 18"+ items, but then bought some 20x7x7 boxes for less than $1 each, so worth it.
grand-and-glorious-purpose
·8 months agoI have found those triangle boxes have nearly ZERO protection.
Too long, too thin, too flexible.
OP I would skip those with prejudice.
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoYea, UPS loves to use them as baseball bats! lol
I use them when shipping 27X40 posters BUT only with a tube inside of them as well. So its just a protection for the tube that is inside really.
christworks
·8 months ago@westchestervillage I am sorry this happened.
First, your buyer is a DA. You can use your imagination to figure out what those letters mean. I realize that's not very Christ-like, but that is why I need Him! Shipping it rolled is the best way. I will ship smaller ones flat between stiff corrugated cardboard, but that size does increase the risk of it bending if it is flat because it is too big to put into the tote bins.
Second, you do not accept returns. IMHO, you invite yourself for these type of excuses because what else can the buyer do if they decide they do not like it? Be thankful they did not damage it on purpose. At least if they want to send it back for a full refund, you can resell it.
Third, IMHO, I would not have offered a partial refund. If they accept it, that is a strong signal they are really not that upset. Certain buyers look for sellers who do not accept returns, knowing they have a decent shot at a) getting something at a discount after the fact or b) getting a full refund and still keeping the item. I think there are some situations and sellers where it makes sense for their business model to not accept returns. I don't know if you are one of them.
Finally, we have laws to put the public on notice they must wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle. We have those laws for a reason. Namely, people are DAs. So, maybe do as @inhawaii suggested and add a line in the listing about how it will ship. I do that with things that ship ESE so buyers are on notice there won't be traditional tracking included.
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoThank you for the reply. Great advice. Will def. follow. I would definitely refund or return if it got there damaged especially I would file a claim with insurance and refund the buyer, etc., but when he sent that picture of how the item arrived to this site as proof that it wasn't as described while it showing no creases or bends, I was like No F way. lol Lesson learned I guess. Like he wanted it flat because the picture shows it flat. I was like arent you going to frame it? It will flatten when you frame it, he did acknowledge there were no creases or bends.
Yea defiantly need to consider some return policy. I do no returns because I was tired of the opposite, bunch of returns based on "changed my mind" and nothing to do with the actual item. But yea need to consider putting returns on some categories moving forward.
We do refunds and returns even with No Returns Allowed we just put it up front because we ship everything very carefully since we are collectors too and overall as our feedback shows, we are good sellers just hate when we run into buyers like this. Its like what are we supposed to do? Ship this flat and risk a higher chance of it getting bent or ship in a tube, that 4 inch tube is expensive too, not that it matters but we wanted to make sure it got there un creased and it did.
The total sale was about $10 profit. So not fighting the claim, I will refund him in full when and if he rejects the partial refund but I will ask for it back and resell it.
You are right. I am glad he didn't lie and damage it on purpose.
Anyhow, thanks for the advice and reply. Appreciate it.
kibble-net
·8 months agoDEFINITELY. The word is "Definitely".
You don't want to be "defiant" about accepting returns. 🙂
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoOMG yes, typo! lol I sometimes type too fast and press enter without letting autocorrect do its magic. lol
inhawaii
·8 months agoI agree shipping it rolled is the best way but perhaps you should mention that in your listing so buyers know what to expect.
westchestervillage
OP8 months agoYea Im gonna start adding the rolled part because you can't take the knowledge of a buyer for granted or know their personal preferences.
I make sure it doesn't get creased or bent and use tubes that will roll it but wont bent it. I'm a collector too and wouldn't want anything to arrive bent either. I'm just surprised this was a return when it arrived safe and not bent or creased.
soh.maryl
·8 months agoWhen he returns it, let's hope he used the same container you used to ship it.
albertabrightalberta
·8 months agoThe buyer's claim (whether honest or not) is for "not as described" so you MUST do one of the following: