Buyer used a re-shipping service and shipped out of the country now is trying to return item. Help
On my listed i specifically had only sell to person in the United States selected. Buyer shipped to a re shipping service that then sent the item to Europe. Now buyer is claiming the item doesn’t match description. It does. Called eBay and they say the address listed is associated with past fraudulent activity. They said I have to wait another 2 days before they can do anything. Buy is claiming they are just going to send it back to me. I have not accepted the return and also reported the buyer for fraud (lied about where they live). So what’s going to happen in 2 days when I call eBay back? Any tips for me? I’m pretty sure not being truthful about where you live voids buyer protection etc. I guess this is a know scam. Thanks for the help!
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoOne note with regards to cell phones if you are going to continue to sell them. They are probably one of the favorite targets of every scammer out there. Not something I would personally ever list. However, if you continue to do so make sure you retain the IMEI numbers for each of the phones. If you get scammed out of one you can always report it to the IMEI blacklist which basically renders the phone useless to the buyer.
There are simply too many other ways to sell cell phones that involve less risk than listing them on eBay.
sextons-sweet-deals
·3 years agoThe real issue is that the O.P. did not take the time to review the buyer's profile. The profile should say what country they are in. That would be the first red flag.
The shipping address to freight forwarder can look funny at times (another red flag) but should have been Google Mapped no matter what before shipping.
I can't keep up with all of the eBay policies, but I also thought shipping to a freight forwarder to reship per the buyer would void any responsibility to the seller. If and when I ship to a F.F., I pay for signature required.
The O.P. needs to communicate with the buyer on the issue. Ask for photos. Why doesn't the item match description?
I don't know what the value of the item was, but I just wonder if it was something that scammers love trying to get free. If the O.P. issues a return without a fight, I also wonder what they will actually get back?
Good luck on this.
ittybitnot
·3 years agoThe real issue is that the O.P. did not take the time to review the buyer's profile.
@sextons-sweet-deals
What could the seller do differently if the buyer was in an international location with a US shipping address to a forwarder in Delaware? That doesn't matter much unless the seller is willing to take the defect for refunding prior to shipping. The OP has two sales. Would their defect rate be 50% if they had to take the hit for out of stock? eBay expects a seller to ship when they are paid, even if the transaction looks shady. There is no more blocking non-US based payments as there was with PayPal, so there is no real pre-emptive action for a seller to pursue in this situation other than lying about "problem with buyer's address".
Maybe we should place the blame for this mess on the seller for trying to sell the iphone in the first place on this venue? Sellers should know better?
sextons-sweet-deals
·3 years agosimple!
Cancel order based on issue with buyer's address. This would not be a false claim.
If the O.P. would have reviewed the buyer's profile, they would have noticed they were overseas and not be in this predicament.
coalpha
OP3 years agoEh not really a big seller here even though i have been on eBay for over 20 years. Would love some options to block all buyers from over seas, all addresses that are not residential etc. It’s not worth the time for ME to sell anything like a phone on here ever again after this. Funds have been locked up for over a month now and if I didn’t get after it like I did it would have been 2 months before I even received the phone back. And yea the listing required the buyer to be in the continental United States, they should have followed the requirements. Very happy with how this turned out for them.
ittybitnot
·3 years agoCancel order based on issue with buyer's address. This would not be a false claim.
@sextons-sweet-deals
While I would readily agree that the "issue with buyer's address" cancellation does not provide the seller with a defect, and that the same cancellation issue has been recommended by eBay staff from time to time as a "catch all" excuse for other situations, I don't believe "I don't want to ship my expensive item to an international buyer in the Russian Federation using a freight forwarder US address" is one of those situations.
Once in a while, the seller may get a pass. Since we don't know how many times a seller can get away with it, I do not feel comfortable suggesting that as an action to take to perhaps (just maybe) avoid subsequent scam attempts. eBay has stated on these boards that it is an inappropriate action to be used with a freight forwarder situation as well.
Truly, I am not trying to call you out, but blaming the seller in this situation just seems just sort of "off". My opinion entirely.
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoCancel order based on issue with buyer's address. This would not be a false claim.
@sextons-sweet-deals
While I would readily agree that the "issue with buyer's address" cancellation does not provide the seller with a defect, and that the same cancellation issue has been recommended by eBay staff from time to time as a "catch all" excuse for other situations, I don't believe "I don't want to ship my expensive item to an international buyer in the Russian Federation using a freight forwarder US address" is one of those situations.
Once in a while, the seller may get a pass. Since we don't know how many times a seller can get away with it, I do not feel comfortable suggesting that as an action to take to perhaps (just maybe) avoid subsequent scam attempts. eBay has stated on these boards that it is an inappropriate action to be used with a freight forwarder situation as well.
Truly, I am not trying to call you out, but blaming the seller in this situation just seems just sort of "off". My opinion entirely.
I have mixed emotions about this from a bigger picture situation. While I have shipped a number of items through **bleep** without any problems I have also canceled a number of orders that would have went through **bleep** based on the buyers registered address. Not so much that I was concerned with the buyer as I was with the integrity of the customs officers of various countries. A lot of items get stolen or swapped out going through customs in a number of countries. In those cases I canceled the order based on a problem with the buyers address. It's my item and my risk not eBay's.
I have also sold a number of items to foreign buyers who had a US shipping address that was no a FF. How do I know this? Because eBay charged me the darn international fee because the buyers registered address was international. Lots of students and business people are temporarily living in the US. The same applies with a lot of US citizens/residents that may be deployed or living overseas who are either using a FF or have an international shipping address but a registered US address on their account. So it's kind of a mixed bag of potential situations and while they don't come up often I do a risk assessment on the individual orders before deciding what to do. Of course I don't list a lot of high value or high scammer target items either.
Ironically if the buyer had filed a NAD chargeback with his/her credit card company there is a 99.9% chance that the buyer would have been fully refunded and allowed to keep the item.
coalpha
OP3 years agoAnother update funds have been released and are now available. Should get paid tomorrow unless buyer pulls another trick… happy for now:)
theteamsetguy
·3 years ago@coalpha ,
Now you have to make sure the buyer doesn't go to their bank and file a chargeback request. If they used a Amex, MC, Visa, or Discover which they most likely did to pay for the Iphone they can file a chargeback for up to 180 days.
There is nothing eBay can do about chargeback requests.
coalpha
OP3 years agoGood to know, so they can still suck the funds back from eBay or even my bank? What about unlinking bank after I (if I do) get the funds? Any way to still come out ahead after a charge back? After further research looks like these guys are in Ukraine.
buyselljack2016
·3 years agoUnlinking the bank account is not easy, and if you could then eBay would send the "debt" to collections.
vintagepl
·3 years agoyes, was going to say the same. A scammer (if this is what it is) will open a chargeback. The CC Co. may require them to ship the item back & you may receive a nice bag of rocks. Once they produce a return tracking # the CC Co. is satisfied. They dont give 2 hoots what you receive back.
coalpha
OP3 years agoI’m done selling used phones on eBay after this, even if I do come out ahead. Just back to small things that don’t attract attention.
buyselljack2016
·3 years agoIf in the final analysis, if all goes south, hopefully you have the information needed to report the phone stolen and have it "bricked".
coalpha
OP3 years agoIt’s pretty cut and dry and buyer gave me a good review and admitted they were not in the USA during some messages. I’ll just ride this out. Thanks everyone again! I’ll update with developments good/bad
toomuchstuffagain35
·3 years agoWon't do much good if the phone is overseas now.
buyselljack2016
·3 years agoOK, thanks. Don't know much about phones but will log that into my memory bank to attempt not to suggest such in the future. 10 year olds likely have more cell phone experience that I do 😊
dbfolks166mt
·3 years ago@coalpha ,
Now you have to make sure the buyer doesn't go to their bank and file a chargeback request. If they used a Amex, MC, Visa, or Discover which they most likely did to pay for the Iphone they can file a chargeback for up to 180 days.
There is nothing eBay can do about chargeback requests.
While eBay cannot do anything about the CC company's decision with regards to the chargeback they do have some very limited seller protections for chargebacks but it is very specific and the seller must address the chargeback properly for the protection to apply.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293
robbie31415
·3 years agoYou falsely reported with no evidence of wrong doing.
I don't get why some sellers have to act out prematurely.
ittybitnot
·3 years agoI don't get why some sellers have to act out prematurely.
@robbie31415
Perhaps your post was misinterpreted. There is nothing "premature" to responding to a claim by the OP. The usual scenario in this case has been well known for quite a while. There was a time a couple of years back that the same scam was reported on these boards 40 times in one month:
eBay + high end cellphone + international buyer + freight forwarder + snad claim = seller loses each and every time
Those days are not over, eBay does not publish any "help" article about this, but once in a while if a seller comes to the boards for help, they get it.
robbie31415
·3 years agoOne, it's based in assumption, and two your premise that the seller 'loses each and everytime' is false.
Does it happen? Yes. Does it happen every time? No
coalpha
OP3 years agoCurious, you have never had an EBay transaction. How do you know about this?
pjcdn2005
·3 years agoSome posters here use posting ID's so there is no indication of how many ebay transactions they have had. They may have 1000's of selling feedback.
coalpha
OP3 years agoThanks everyone. Yea I accepted the return and let eBay send them a label. Too bad for them the label started in the US not Europe. Just a waiting game now. The next step will be dealing with not getting the same item back or something fun like that.
toomuchstuffagain35
·3 years agoBe prepared for it.
They'll most likely order some cheap trinket off Temu or somewhere and have it shipped to you.
buyselljack2016
·3 years ago^^^^^^^^ 99% chance that this is what will happen, and the delivery will likely not even be to your address.
@coalpha come back here for assistance on how to resolve when that happens, or perhaps some with knowledge can give you some heads up assistance prior to it happening to help you prepare.
ittybitnot
·3 years agoYea I accepted the return and let eBay send them a label.
@coalpha
You will only get charged for the label if it is used. The buyer can't use it as it is if the product is shipped to another country, but they can send the label to someone in the US that can change the 'from and to' addresses and use it anyway,
Generally, as already suggested to you, a not so honest buyer will engage in the "cheap trinket return scam" where they buy some inexpensive item from a stateside vendor and have it shipped to a gas station, library, or other address in your zipcode. (Or use the label as mentioned above to do the same). This will produce tracking that shows "delivery" to satisfy eBay for evidence of a return. It will satisfy eBay, even if you get nothing, or even sometime if you get an envelope in the mail addressed to you that contains ANYTHING.
Yes, sellers have additional protections when shipping to freight forwarder address, and buyers are supposed to lose the ability to file claims. HOWEVER, it is up to the seller to convince eBay that the buyer used a freight forwarder in the first place. Dealing with the regular outsourced eBay customer (non)service that you get in a call back or chat are less than helpful. That is why the other poster was concerned that you were told to 'wait two days'. You have a time frame in which you have to reply to that claim, if you don't eBay is very likely to refund the buyer from your proceeds and let them keep the item for free. Nobody at eBay is going to care that their own customer service gave you the wrong advice which resulted in more of a loss to you.
You may still wish to contact eBay through one of their social media portals about this, and it being a freight forwarder buyer issue. It would be nice if they close the case for you sooner than having to wait to see what you get back, or a credit card dispute is filed instead. Use the blue message button on this page:
https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness
OR
https://twitter.com/askebay
Do let us know how this turns out for you.
coalpha
OP3 years agoYou saved this for me!!! Went through twitter and the canceled the return and sided in my favor. Yup you can’t request a return after using a reshipper. Here is the final verdict.
â€I've completed my research and I am happy to say I was able to close the case in your favor. While buyers are welcome to use Freight forwarding services, you are only responsible for the delivery to the address provided in the order details. It has been an honor assisting you with this tonight and I wish you a wonderful remainder to your week.â€
ittybitnot
·3 years agoâ€I've completed my research and I am happy to say I was able to close the case in your favor.
@coalpha
That is great news! Thanks for the update. FWIW, these "buyers" are NOT noted for continuing with a chargeback after the fact. After all, they do have your phone.
sumsum70
·3 years ago"wait two days" sounds like a recipe for disaster. Two days is probably when eBay will automatically find in favor of buyer. I'd call their bluff and issue return label to freight forwarder address or try to get eBay to void MBG before those 2 days. Hope this wasn't the $850 iPhone!
cstpos
·3 years ago@coalpha I would accept the return immediately. As others have said, the buyer has to pay the shipping from their country to the address you shipped to in the USA. You only pay the return shipping from that US address back to you. Any buyer can claim an Item is Not as Described and be able to start a return on ebay. Make sure they opened a return (not just a message on ebay). If you don't accept the return in time, ebay will issue a refund and allow them to keep your item. I'm not sure if ebay is still charging a $20 fee if they have to "step in" and complete the return if you don't. You will get your ebay selling fees minus .30 if you issue a refund. The buyer may decide it's not worth it if they have to pay the shipping back to the states. ebay phone customer service is often a waste of time. Try the ebay facebook for business page and send a private message in the future.
Don't forget to add the buyer to your Blocked Buyer List so they can't order from you again. Good Luck!
dentalsales4u
·3 years agoAs other have already stated, a buyer can ship to any address they wish, even if it's a freight forwarder.
I don't understand why they told you that you have to wait 2 days. I feel this was to get you off the phone.
I had a buyer a while back file INAD.
I got the buyer to state in messages that they had the item forwarded to them in another country.
Then I contacted eBay, they checked messages and saw this info and immediately closed the case in my favor. A buyer loses their MBG if they have the product forwarded to another address or country.
Has the buyer admitted they had the product forwarded to them?
If so, use this information when you are talking with eBay.
If nothing else, you provide a return label to the address it shipped to and it's up to the buyer to get it to that address and then hope the freight forwarder uses the return label to send product on to you in the allotted time frame.
Good luck to you
soh.maryl
·3 years agoMany, many international buyers use freight forwarders in the US. This is legit.
They were truthful about where they live AND were truthful about the delivery address.
a_c_green
·3 years agoThat's nonsense. What's happened is that the reshipper address has been used by hundreds of other buyers in the past, some of whom had disputes with sellers. Wanting to return an item is not in itself evidence of anything fraudulent.
If you accept the return (which you should, for reasons to follow), eBay will generate a return label for mailing from the address to which you originally shipped the item, which is the reshipper's address here in the U.S. It's up to the buyer to get the item back there. The buyer did not "lie about where they live" in terms of where they wanted the item shipped, which was to the reshipper in the U.S.
As above: you mentioned "not accepting the return," which I assume means that they have opened a Not As Described dispute. If you do not respond to that in time, eBay will refund the buyer in full and allow them to keep the item. Asking eBay to "step in" will not alter that outcome.
Not being truthful about where you live has nothing to do with voiding buyer protection. Technically, the fact that the item has been forwarded from its original delivery address should void buyer protection, but as I think someone else already mentioned, eBay seems to waver on this point. If you accept the return and generate the return label, you will at least dump the ball back into the buyer's court, and if he fails to ship the item back in time, eBay will close out the return and you will not need to refund anything.
heckofagame
·3 years agoAccording to eBay policy, if you use a freight forwarder, it voids the MBG.
Did you speak to a customer service rep on the phone? I would not trust ANYTHING they say.
Maybe contact eBay via Facebook. That way you get info from an actual employee.
Facebook
coalpha
OP3 years agoThanks,
Yea I have talked to them multiple times on the phone and they say I have to wait another 2 days before they can do something.
toomuchstuffagain35
·3 years agoYou're about to be disappointed, I'm afraid.
Using a reshipper is not "lying about where they live".
Your only 'out' may be that often a buyer will lose any buyer protections under the MBG when an item is forwarded on from a reshipper, but that outcome is always a gamble as ebay has been known to waffle on that point.
Did the buyer open a return request or just message you? You are only obligated to send them a return label to the address of the reshipper.
coalpha
OP3 years agoOh and they gave me a good review a couple days before trying to return the item.