Buyer thievery
I volunteer for a 501(c)(3) charitable organization. A $550 ring was sold. The buyer complained so we refunded her money. Now she refuses to mail us back the ring. Obviously, a mistake was made on our part, but EBay doesn’t want to get involved in helping us recover our item. Now, we are out both the money and the ring. Can anyone help? It would be very appreciated.
-Stylelynne
54 comments
kitchen-topia
·3 years agoYou must have sold this ring under a different account, no Sold show under stylelynne0801 name with 1,250 feedback.
But - this account shows 1.7K items had previously sold (must be more than 90 days ago?).
Not to jump on you but you must keep updated on eBays rules or you run into snags which can be costly.
A further thought; if you had a brick & mortar store 'Bonnie's Baubles' downtown and a buyer phoned you with a complaint about a $500.00 ring would you not ask them to please bring it in and then refund them?
isaiah53-57
·3 years agoIf you found yourself in this predicament due your attempts at remediating an unfortunate series of events, my best advise would be to NEVER open an email, take a call, or respond to any correspondence whatsoever unless you are 127% sure that it came from someone you have known your entire life - sorry to be so cavalier, but....
soh.maryl
·3 years agoHow would not have opened email etc have helped in this situation?
playwithitagaintoys
·3 years agoSeller Incompetence ≠Buyer Theivery
the-hook-and-the-loop
·3 years agoYour work is done here. You contributed to charity. The END!
soh.maryl
·3 years agoYou may have misunderstood: The OP is writing on behalf of the charity he represents. Sold a $550 ring. Buyer wanted to return it. Buyer was refunded before/without returning the ring.
Actually, the OP, or whoever authorized that refund, took money away from the charity!
inhawaii
·3 years agoWhat about the many chargebacks that occur where the buyer gets a refund and does not have to return the item. Is that theft?
robbie31415
·3 years agoBusinesses make mistakes.
This was not theft, nor was it fraud.
It sucks when it happens but you will most likely learn your lesson.
lonebuck-books
·3 years agoSorry this has happened to you but as everyone else has said, you made the mistake not eBay or the buyer. It isn't theft. You gave a refund without requiring a return. eBay is very clear in multiple places that you are not to refund before you get the item back and inspect it. If you do give a refund before a return, it is assumed that you are not requiring a return. Buyers know this. eBay knows this. Sellers should also know this. In no way will eBay get involved and neither will the police, internet fraud division, or the postal service.
Sorry for repeating what others have said but unfortunately sellers come here every week with the same story so it is obvious that this is one of those things that needs to be repeated over and over again. Consider it an expensive lesson and move on. There really isn't anything you can do about it other than that.
terrycece62
·3 years agoBut you already refunded the buyer correct.
Refund was given freely.
Did the buyer make any threats against you or the organization in anyway?
Morally buyer is in the wrong not sure technically buyer committed a crime.
stuff4divas
·3 years ago@stylelynne0801 sorry this happened to you.
i'm surprized as long as u'v been on ebay that u would refund, especially at such a high price, B4 receiving the item back.
don't know the laws, maybe u can file a police report and or internet fraud and or mail fraud cases, but most likely it will be viewed as u allowing the buyer to keep the item since u refunded b4 receiving it back 😞
and no, ebay doesn't get involved with this type of situation.
hartungcards
·3 years agoA police report or internet fraud or mail fraud? Seriously? What kind of "crime" or "fraud" did the buyer commit in this case? "Most likely" it will be viewed as the buyer got lucky because the seller made a huge mistake.
stuff4divas
·3 years ago@hartungcards Seriously? Why r u always so sarcastic and so ready to hurt others?
We don't know all the facts of the case, that is why I specifically stated that I don't know the laws and MAYBE ...
As u say, "most likely" which means u too do not know all the facts
there is info we don't know about so giving the OP some options if they pertain could help instead of "kicking when someone is down" and being so judgemental
yuzuha
·3 years agoWe know the facts that matter, though, which is that the seller refunded the buyer without requiring a return first. There is nothing that can be done in this case (by either eBay or the police) and no laws have been broken. No fraud or theft was committed if the seller willingly refunded before receiving the item back.
stuff4divas
·3 years agoGlad u KNOW ALL the facts that matter Oh Great Wisenheimer!
hartungcards
·3 years agoWhy r u always so sarcastic and so ready to hurt others?
stuff4divas
·3 years ago@hartungcards hurt first hurt back
robbie31415
·3 years ago@hartungcards Seriously? Why r u always so sarcastic and so ready to hurt others?"
"Glad u KNOW ALL the facts that matter Oh Great Wisenheimer!"
Well well well. I just found this quite amusing.
stuff4divas
·3 years agoYou first, Me second LOL
YES! We can all use a good laugh every so often! 🤣😂ðŸ˜
chapeau-noir
·3 years agoShe's right, though.
marty1762
·3 years agoBuyer thievery is definitely a thing! This happened to someone I know also on a much cheaper item. Because of that any Buyer can return but they will pay for return shipping. Once I receive the item back and is in my hands (happened once) I issue a refund.
Regardless, Im super sorry this happened to you. What about sending their local police to their house because technically that is a Class 1 Felony. Just a thought…🤣
soh.maryl
·3 years agoUh, if a buyer opens a case for not as described, it's the SELLER who is REQUIRED to front the return shipping cost if he wants his item back.
Have you read the MBG for buyers?
just-me
·3 years agoThere is a phone number for the customer on the order details. I would suggest someone call and explain that in an effort to give good service the refund was mistakenly sent before the item was returned and ask them to return it. I would ask for their email address to send a shipping label and then I would move on. When the buyer was refunded, the message from eBay likely stated that they did not need to return the item, that is not thievery.
spark-chaser1
·3 years agoI would be careful about the implication of theft here. The buyer bought, paid, didn’t like the item received, asked for a refund, and got it.
The buyer did not force possession, break and enter a building, physically threaten or strong arm anyone.
in this case, unfortunately, the seller unknowingly “ gifted†the item by not following procedure… simple as that. The buyer could argue this and win, how much money should be spent further to persue that?
the buyer should ethically return the item. But “ legal†and “ethical†are not always one and the same.
evelyb30
·3 years agoAnd these days, "ethics" ... yeah well. Good luck with that.
spark-chaser1
·3 years agoExactly.
The human condition overrides all laws and principles. In the long run, people ( as individuals) will either do what’s right, or they won’t.
And there is no way to predict who will do what.
tdrake
·3 years agoEbay already tried to help you but you ignored them.
Aside from being clear in their general selling tutorials about how and when to refund, when you actually DO get into a refund situation they repeat at several steps to not issue refund until you have your item back in hand.
eBay is not a law enforcement agency and what you have now is theft and you should pursue thru legal channels.
inhawaii
·3 years agoWill all due respect, what happened is not theft.
At what point does it become theft?
The moment the buyer was refunded?
A week after he was refunded but failed to send back the item?
A month after he was refunded and failed to send back the item?
evelyb30
·3 years agoIf I were this charity, I'd take fine metal donations valued at over $100 direct to the scrapper/buyer or sell locally. They might make more money selling here, but a cash sale is a done deal.
soh.maryl
·3 years agoIs it really theft though, if the seller refunded the buyer without getting the item back first?
sextons-sweet-deals
·3 years agoNot sure I buy into the O.P.'s post.
The O.P. seems to be a seasoned eBay member per profile. Why did they not speak up and guide the charity on such an expensive item?
Whoever refunded before receiving item back should be removed from the position / authority to make these types of decisions.
Overall! This should have been a pick-up only or just go to a local jeweler / pawn shop, sell it and put the money into the charity account.
inhawaii
·3 years ago"Hello Wal-Mart, I'm going to be returning an item. Can i get a refund now and i'll return the item later?"
Sorry, that's just not how it works.
I hope you are able to get your item back, but if you don't, just learn from your mistake and move on.
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoHate to say it but you should never give a refund ESPECIALLY for a high dollar item like that Before THE BUYER RETURNS THE MERCHANDISE. I am assuming you trusted the buyer to do the right thing. Sadly, many will NOT do the right thing. Ebay is under no obligation to intervene at this point because you already refunded the purchase. They cannot require that the buyer pay for it now. Always have buyer start a formal return request on here.
vintagecraze50
·3 years agoGeez, Amazon will not do the refund before the item gets sent back. Nobody is going to do that unless the seller could care less about a cheap trinket.
maxine*j
·3 years agoI agree with DBfolks, that it's worth one more try to get the ring back. I'd send a prepaid return label with a note something along the lines of:
"I am sorry about the mistake made with the ring, and I hope the prompt refund helped make up for your disappointment. The charitable organization (name it here) for which it was sold was grateful for the original purchase, and would be grateful now if you return the ring using this prepaid label."
You can word it better, I'm sure, but you get the idea. No demand. No accusation. Just a plea to the buyer's conscience.
You have nothing to lose except the price of postage, so it's worth a shot.
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spark-chaser1
·3 years agoAgreed… good advice.
Making one last attempt appealing to the honor of this person to do the right thing will be better than to arbitrarily accept the loss.
Hopefully the buyer will do right.
spark-chaser1
·3 years agoOne last explanation as to how this happened so you understand….
everything related to cases opened under the Money Back Guarantee are Automated.
If a buyer has an issue with an item, they open a case. This starts an automatic procedure that is all controlled by AI. The buyer’s purchase details are analyzed. The seller is next contacted to provide tracking info and other proof that they shipped, etc,. Then the seller will be prompted
to send a shipping label for a return, which they will do, the buyer sends the item, and once the seller receives the item BACK , it is ONLY THEN that the seller is required to refund.
Skipping this, and only going by the say- so of the buyer and refunding them out of pocket serves to short-circuit this process, and essentially you are telling eBay to “ butt outâ€.
that’s why you lost, and the buyer received a “ giftâ€.
sellers must read ALL terms of service carefully and be sure to follow ser procedures to avoid this from happening ever again.
again- sorry this happened… but this is why it happened. Hope my long-winded explanation helped.
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoAbout the only thing you can do at the moment is to file a police report with the buyers local police station. Depending on how far away the buyer is you could also make a trip to the buyers location and ask police to accompany you to the buyers residence. Depending on where the buyer is locate the police may or may not assist.
I don't see the item under your sold listings so unable to check for nuances did the listing offer returns or was it setup with no returns?
fern*wood
·3 years agoAre you sure what the buyer did was against the law? I was refunded once when the seller didn't wish to have my item returned and I believe the message I got from ebay with the refund also stated something about me not needing to return the item. If a refund is sent, I don't believe there is any requirement that the item must be returned. I realize in this case it was an unfortunate mistake.
dbfolks166mt
·3 years agoAre you sure what the buyer did was against the law? I was refunded once when the seller didn't wish to have my item returned and I believe the message I got from ebay with the refund also stated something about me not needing to return the item. If a refund is sent, I don't believe there is any requirement that the item must be returned. I realize in this case it was an unfortunate mistake.
In your case the seller agreed they did not want the item back. I am not so sure that applies in this case. If not then it is basically theft but there are a few missing details in the OP. I am not sure if the buyer just complain or they actually opened a case or whether the seller offered returns or did not accept them. A lot would depend on the mitigating factors.
hartungcards
·3 years agoWith all due respect, that sounds like a really bad idea.
soh.maryl
·3 years agoHow is it a bad idea? What's the OP got to lose?
slippinjimmy
·3 years agoIt's a bad idea because it would be a false report (there is no theft), filing a false police report is a felony!
soh.maryl
·3 years agoMaybe I was not clear. Another responder suggested a message to that buyer explaining what happened and appealing to the buyer's sense of fair play or ethics or whatever you want to call it. Again, what harm could that do?
Have not ever suggested a police report. After reading and re-reading this, isn't a police report something that happens when a crime has occurred? Don't see the crime here, just a terrible error on the part of the seller or some employee of the organization he represents.
tinsoldierunderground
·3 years agoI'm sorry this happened to your organization, but as others have stated, there is nothing that can be done.
The refund should NEVER have been given before the item was returned to you. By refunding prematurely, you've given up what little seller protection ebay provides. I'm sorry, but it's just that simple.
ckimodog
·3 years ago@stylelynne0801
Always make sure the item is returned to you before you ever refund. Always advise the buyer to initiate a return and pay for the shipping label as well. Very sorry for your situation.
fern*wood
·3 years agoI don't know what their complaint was, but about all you can do at this point is send a nice message/shipping label and hope they do the right thing. There is always a chance, unless more transpired between you and buyer that soured the transaction.
spark-chaser1
·3 years agoNot to repeat what others have said, but I will repeat what others have said….
if you initiated a refund, your money and the item is gone. There is nothing further that can be done.
that being said, I’m sorry that happened, and that the buyer is less than honorable- but what is done is done.
spark-chaser1
·3 years ago…. Going forward let the buyer open a case and then follow the prompts eBay sends you to follow through with a return.
Their terms are clear… if you opt to refund a buyer without following procedure, you basically are at your own risk, as has happened it appears here.
maxine*j
·3 years agoI am confused. If the buyer opens an Item Not As Described case, you send a return shipping label, and the refund is made after you get the item back. So I do not understand how this happened.
If you simply refunded the money without the buyer going through the INAD process, then I think you are simply stuck, out the money and out the ring. I don't see how eBay can help you recover the ring if you and the buyer didn't go through the usual return/refund process within 30 days of the buyer's receipt of the ring.
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soh.maryl
·3 years agoThe buyer was refunded BEFORE returning the ring?
Don't know what to tell you. eBay will not get involved in this because there is nothing they can do.
hartungcards
·3 years agoYes, the mistake was made on your part. Hence, eBay doesn't want (or need) to get involved. If eBay got involved in every mistake a seller makes, they wouldn't have any time left to do stuff like make upgrades that don't work right for a few months.
I'm not sure how your mistake equates to "buyer thievery."