Buyer States They Recieved Brick
Summary: In the discussion about a buyer claiming to have received a brick instead of the purchased item, albertabrightalberta advises others to report such incidents to the platform and wait for a claim to be filed before issuing a refund. Meanwhile, tarotfindsandmore and adamcartwright argue against simply accepting buyer fraud, emphasizing the importance of following rules and using evidence like package weight to dispute claims. tarotfindsandmore suggests reaching out to customer support through social media to address such issues, encouraging sellers to not just accept fraudulent activities but to defend themselves responsibly by following protocol.
Had a buyer reach out and state that they received a literal brick instead of the item sent. They provided a pic of the inside of the box with a brick. If a brick had really been swapped with the item by the carrier USPS, the box would have weighed a good amount more than the item shipped. Is there anything I can do to determine if/when the tampering occurred or if this is a common tactic to get items for free?
inhawaii
·4 months agoTell the buyer that the brick costs $20 more than the original item and the extra shipping for the brick is another $20. He owes you $40.
rokkworks
·4 months agolol!
That’s funny, and could also be true.
I’ve sold many bricks on eBay.
sfau
·4 months agoWith today's postage rates, no one would send a brick! Sorry you have to deal with this!
petitepikapika
OP4 months agoHello All! I appreciate all the responses. This is the first time I have had to deal with this type of interaction and wanted to know how to best approach it. I have requested the buyer send me additional pictures of the box on all sides , the packaging content and the brick itself. I also reiterated the severity of potential mail tampering/fraud. They have responded that they are "out of town for the holiday and will respond when able". If they do open a refund I would have them mail the "brick" back and go from there as far as working with Ebay and/or the postal service.
I will follow up as soon as I have any additional information. Thank you,
house*of*paws
·4 months agoThank you for the update @petitepikapika . 😊
Learning about the intermediary steps (and final resolution) of a problem helps us know what’s actually is going on with eBay.
rokkworks
·4 months agoJust a question, @petitepikapika - how does the buyer’s “feedback left for others” look? Any hints of him having similar issues or mentions of resolutions?
I’m doubtful this buyer will actually send back the brick. (But if he does, @ me. )
Also - Does the photo of the brick show the letters on the brick?
petitepikapika
OP4 months agoThe picture does not have any letters on the brick. The feedback count is low but no concerning comments or mentions of any issues. I will def update in a few days if/when I hear back from the buyer and especially if I actually get a brick back.
rokkworks
·4 months agoThe reason I asked about the brick coming back -
it takes the buyer’s scam to a different level of criminality, as they will now be using the mail for fraud.
So, they have actually boxed themselves in, now. Either they return the brick, which can potential incriminate them in a federal crime, or they send something else back, which means they are definitely guilty themselves. Unless, they return the purchased item.
Therefore - You must keep repeating they return for refund.
Keep all communication via eBay, no emails (in case they happen to have or find your email addy)
Important - if you’re friendly with your local postal clerks or post office manager, now is the time to discuss with them a favor - have your incoming mail held if you can (do a vacation hold for the days the pkg might arrive), and ask if can you please open the package in their presence, and tell them why - mail fraud.
Your asset is your good feedback AND the weight of the original package. A brick weighs 5 to 8 pounds unpacked, I’m guessing your set did not weigh that much.
Ebay also knows the buyer’s history, if they tried this before - they’ll know because of previous messages, but they would not have read them unless they were reported and encouraged to do so.
albertabrightalberta
·4 months ago@petitepikapika
You haven't said it yet so I'll recommend again that you file to "report the buyer" right away, explaining that they've sent messages claiming to have received a brick.
Getting the report on record prior to having them open a case and returning the brick shows ebay that you're acting on it preemptively. If and when you receive the return, you can report them again.
petitepikapika
OP4 months agoI forgot to mention that in my update. Buyer has been reported. Appreciate the follow up.
christworks
·4 months agoAll this noise and the buyer, to our knowledge, has not even opened a return. @petitepikapika Please listen to the advice I gave you and tune out the confusion in this thread. If the buyer should open a return, come back and let us know. Tag me in the post and we'll go from there.
krazzykats
·4 months agoYou can report a buyer if you believe they’re making a false claim or misusing the Money Back Guarantee.
The quickest route is the “Report a buyer” button on eBay’s buyer-issue reporting page. You can also report from your Orders list by selecting “Leave feedback” from the dropdown menu next to the item, then choosing “Report buyer.”
ReportFraud.ftc.gov
Security Center - Report a Concern to eBay.com
Internet Auction Fraud: Federal Crimes and Penalties from LegalClarity
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inhawaii
·4 months agoI'm just going by hundreds, make it thousands of cases here on the boards where sellers have shared their stories where ebay will not even look at or consider and evidence and find in favor of the buyer. Doesn't that mean anything?
And then there's the handful of times where I personally lost disputes despite having irrefutable evidence in my favor. Doesn't that men anything?
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoPerhaps people who "win" just aren't posting. They just do what they have to do and get back to work. Most sellers spend little to absolutely no time at all on this board (I didn't even look at this board for the first 25 years I was selling). Why would they go out of their way to come here to tell us about their wins? Randoms come here to rant, not to cheerlead.
I've "won" at least three (a tarot deck I've mentioned before, the klepto girl, and the bracelet from this past week) times that I can think of, two I've posted about. I didn't file a dispute in any of the three instances. My own posts were not wins at the time I initially posted about them. They became wins as the situations were resolved.
meme6253
·4 months agoWell at least a brick is a useful item, Much better than a rock. Probably a tactic to get it for free, No way of really determining what or if anything actually happened, Just word against word, Your right about the weight issue,but the carrier would not care about the weight upon delivery, Only when accepting the package.
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoThe carrier accepts the return package as well.
inhawaii
·4 months agoI thought ebay doesn't even look at, let alone consider any evidence from a seller in a dispute like this.
Am I wonrg?
carlmarxx
·4 months agoYes ebay does when the seller fights the dispute and they know their rights . The way the current economy is in there will be more cases like OP's .
luckythewinner
·4 months agoNo one tampered with the package and replaced it with a brick.
On eBay, any buyer can steal any item from any seller at any time by filing a fraudulent "not as described" dispute. This has been true since 2008, when eBay introduced the 'Money Back Guarantee' for buyers.
The growth in the number of eBay listings has far outpaced the growth in the volume of buying. Until that dynamic changes, eBay will always favor buyers over sellers.
thelongball
·4 months agoSome key words I have used in the past are:
Turning this over to a postal inspector so be prepared to hear from them
and
Mail fraud is a federal crime that the post office takes very seriously.
Any time I used this verbiage I never heard back from the buyer.
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoDo not refund this buyer until you get the package back. You absolutely SHOULD NOT send one single penny until you have received that package and it shows as "delivered" on your tracking. Send the buyer a label, report them, and wait. It is buyer fraud, it is a tactic to get free items, and it is a violation of ebay policy.
There are several sellers on this board that will tell you to just refund and be done with it. DO NOT DO THAT. Now is the time to contact ebay. If you purchased your label through ebay they have access to the details for the original label you purchased. That is more than enough to get you started.
house*of*paws
·4 months ago@tarotfindsandmore
What would be the point of paying an extra $10-15 to get back a brick? What are you suggesting the OP do after receiving the brick … other than refunding the buyer …
OR is the inconvenience the ‘point’?
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoIt's a matter of following procedure so the seller doesn't end up losing hundreds of dollars. As a seller you have to prove that the buyer is defrauding you. There is no way to do so without the return. In many cases, just the requirement of a return is enough to call the fraudster's bluff. As soon as the seller states "I'll be happy to refund you upon receipt of the returned item", many fraudsters just head for the hills. If the seller doesn't agree to accept the return, and provide a free label, the whole thing is dead in the water and the seller loses.
This seller is losing a heck of a lot less with a 10-15 dollar label than he/she will be on a 200-300 dollar box of cards. Also, the label charge should be identical to the original label charge so, if this buyer tries to send back a brick, the buyer will have to pay for the additional postage...and, again, there will be further proof that the seller did not send a brick.
ETA: The seller will need to provide photographic evidence of what the returned package contains, so it's not a matter of inconveniencing the buyer, it's about providing actual proof. The seller was smart enough to use his/her own photos in the listing so that will provide additional support for the fraud claim. Sadly, he/she is selling in one of the more corrupt categories so it has to be belt and suspenders all the way through.
luckythewinner
·4 months agoAs a seller you have to prove that the buyer is defrauding you.
further proof that the seller did not send a brick.
that will provide additional support for the fraud claim.
This all sounds well and good ... but there is a conspicuous lack of evidence on this board that a seller can successfully prove to eBay that they were defrauded and not have to refund.
And if the sellers loses, not only are they out the hundreds of dollars, but also the cost of return shipping AND the fees they paid on the transaction. AND they get a transaction defect, which moves them closer to losing seller status.
It's a matter of following procedure so the seller doesn't end up losing hundreds of dollars.
I'm not aware of any procedure that a seller can follow that assures the seller will not lose.
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoWrong again. Totally wrong again.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/What-is-this-buyer-thinking/td-p/35611145/page/3
luckythewinner
·4 months agoYou are correct - I should not have used an absolute.
There are indeed occasional examples of sellers following the steps you took who manged to win a dispute.
But this board is littered with sellers who took the steps you did and lost their case, their money, and got a defect.
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoIs it possible that that's the case because they've lost their disputes rather than that ebay just always sides with buyers? Like I said to James, most people don't come here to relax and chit chat. They come here because they've got a gripe. I posted my situation(s) because they were ridiculous and because I spend entirely too much time fiddle farting around on this board. If I was a typical seller with a bit more of a life, none of you all would even know of the three times I've "won".
Again, I've never lost a case/dispute...whatever you want to call it. I take my licks when I'm supposed to and do what I have to do to protect myself. I'll probably be unjustly dinged at some point, but in 29 years, I haven't yet taken a hit from ebay that I didn't deserve.
bgt_masters_of_tiki_d
·4 months agoI have NEVER lost a case where I wasn't fully refunded by ebay when I filed either a police incident report, ic3.gov fraud report or mail fraud report for situations like the OP's.
house*of*paws
·4 months ago@tarotfindsandmore
Since there is always the ‘possibility’ that the buyer actually received a brick … regardless of what the OP put in the box … are you CERTAIN that a buyer is charged more if they use the FREE return label?
I have not heard of a buyer EVER being charged when they use a free label.
I would imagine a buyer sometimes might have to use different return packaging if the original box was destroyed … causing it to cost more postage … but I never heard of the buyer being charged under those circumstances.
[BTW, I’m not being nit-picky. I’m truly trying to understand the benefits to a seller of paying to get a brick back.]
krazzykats
·4 months agoI agree. Why throw more money at this.
Course, you could get the brick back and deploy it as the ultimate anti-puppy tunneling device for the fence. 🤣
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tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoDo you realize what the seller is selling? I would happily shell out 10-15 bucks to avoid a 200-300 dollar loss. Heck! I fought a 30 dollar loss.
krazzykats
·4 months agoYes, that does make $ense your way.
The seller needs to decide if they’re willing to pay and end up receiving a brick. They should also block this buyer to prevent them from coming back and repeating this.
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carlmarxx
·4 months agoI hope the OP comes back with updates . Also OP needs to state in the responses back to buyer that case will be opened up with the USPS Postal inspectors office . seller has the photos from the buyer ,that will help , The OP does need to do a report on the FBI online fraud .
house*of*paws
·4 months agoThe OP didn’t specify the amount of the ‘lost item’ … and a recent auction of theirs ended at only $25 … which was why I was a bit stunned by your initial reply. I appreciate your clarification @tarotfindsandmore .
[BTW, I assumed that the OP was truthful and that the buyer either pretended to receive a brick or actually received one. I also assumed that a brick was likely to be returned OR a chargeback would be made.]
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoLet's remember where we are right now. This is a message board where sellers offer other sellers input. Assuming the buyer did receive a brick, it's highly unlikely that brick was sent by the OP (seller). There's no reason the OP would have posted if he/she sent the brick. If the seller did not send a brick, ebay will be on the hook for the MBG, not the seller. The seller can only establish this by going through the steps required by ebay to make this happen.
The buyer most assuredly will be charged at the P.O. if the postage isn't adequate, at the desk. If the USPS carrier picks up the package the charge will be assessed on the ebay account. If the buyer is defrauding the seller, the charge can be disputed. Oh and yes, I am 10000% certain the buyer's label will cost more than the seller's label did if he/she returns a brick after being send a box of cards. Who will be responsible for the charge is, ultimately, up to ebay, but yes the label will cost more. The USPS weighs every single package that comes and goes through the system.
albertabrightalberta
·4 months ago@tarotfindsandmore
"There's no reason the OP would have posted if he/she sent the brick."
True, but there's no way for ebay to know what the OP sent.
"If the seller did not send a brick, ebay will be on the hook for the MBG, not the seller."
No, the seller is on the hook and the refund comes from the seller's funds. The only way ebay would "be on the hook" (and it's not really accurate terminology) would be if the OP appealed and ebay chose to give the seller a credit as a one time goodwill gesture.
"The seller can only establish this by going through the steps required by ebay to make this happen."
There are NO STEPS for the seller to establish what he sent and what the buyer received vs. what the buyer claimed to have received. That's why 99.999% of the time, an MBG claim is ruled in the buyer's favor and any exceptions and appeals are from ebay.
"The buyer most assuredly will be charged at the P.O. if the postage isn't adequate, at the desk."
Doesn't happen ever! There's no weight or price on the return label. It only shows that it's a return. The desk clerk has no way of knowing what the weight is supposed to be.
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoThe weight is on the label if it's an ebay generated label, and the clerk has a scale. If they don't match, the customer pays the difference.
The rest of your comments are easily refuted by simply looking at the link I posted earlier. You are dead wrong on a number of points here. I just went through this, this past week, and not only did ebay find in my favor, there was no ding on my account and I didn't have to pay a single red cent. Additionally, I didn't have to file an appeal or appeal anything at all, period. If you'd like proof of this, go read the thread.
As far as ebay not knowing what the OP sent, you are technically semi-correct insofar as ebay can't see what was in the box the seller shipped out. That said, the weight difference between a brick and a box of cards is quite apparent, so ebay can check package weights and determine that what the seller sent (whatever it is), is NOT what the buyer has sent back.
I'm sorry but this is one time you are just wrong, wrong, wrong on multiple fronts.
ETA: Any ebay CS returns rep can also see the data for all of the shipping labels a seller has purchased and very easily see average prices (this seller sells similar items over and over) and compare them to the shipping charge for the "brick" or whatever it is the buyer puts in the return box, so, again, you're wrong.
authentic*vintage
·4 months agoGo to your locoal post office in person with your tracking number and let them know:
I am an online seller and my buyer is claiming mail fraud. They say they received a heavy brick instead of a lighter item. Could you look at the internal scans and verify if the sorting machine flagged a massive weight change along the route?
Get your intransit weights and inform the buyer you are doing so and that they may need to prepare a formal statement for a mail fraud investigation should the weights show a discrepancy while en route.
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoBuyer sounds dishonest and should be blocked.
And you unfortunately have to refund the dishonest buyer.
albertabrightalberta
·4 months ago@petitepikapika
Don't block immediately because you won't see any messages they may send.
And don't issue a refund unless and until they open a claim and return the item they claim to have received.
But DO report the buyer NOW through the order!
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoThis is one of those you cannot win as a seller.
Sorry, but someone who photo's a brick that they got instead of the item...buyer went out of their way to getting a refund.
I can understand refunding only after an open claim.
But...will I miss the buyer's emails?...The less communication between seller and buyer in this situation the better result of not getting a negative feedback.
I just think it's a no-win situation.
We are unfortunately dealing with artificial intelligence 'now' which has been implemented 'after' what we are suppose to do in situations like this.
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoYou're wrong. You just gave me essentially the same advice, and I did win. The seller here has the record of the weight of the package he/she sent the buyer. That alone is enough to justify an investigation and a delay of any sort of refund. Boxes of cards are heavy but not as heavy as a brick. A brick is at least twice as heavy.
This seller sells fairly expensive trading cards and should not have to take a loss because you think it's a no-win situation. It is not. It should be fought. The platform needs to be aware this is happening.
wmsakalaucks
·4 months agoQuit giving bad advice. Fight the issue as mail fraud and notify eBay that the buyer is requesting something not authorized. This normally kicks the problem into a live person review.
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoYou might want to read your negative feedback....
Seems what you did didn't work out so good...😂
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoI don't understand this post. The poster you're addressing has exactly one neg from a buyer who attempted to get a refund for an item the buyer wouldn't return. He addressed the buyer's claim properly. He followed ebay protocol. What didn't work out?
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoWhy do you keep telling sellers to do this? It's bad advice for both sellers and buyers. Sellers are mistakenly led to believe they just have to accept fraud and buyers think they can get away with it. We absolutely do not have to just roll over and accept this kind of stuff.
adamcartwright
·4 months ago@12345jamesstamps
Haven't we seen that accepting crime only emboldens criminals and leads to more crime?
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoThis right here is the real issue. It's kind of sickening to read posts from experienced sellers advising less experienced sellers to just shut up and take it. I really enjoy this board and constantly learn new things from folks here, but this is one lie that just needs to die. If a seller is being defrauded, they absolutely should not be told there's nothing they can do about it. Sellers need to follow the rules, and ranting fixes nothing, but all this insistence that the buyer always wins, is just a load of sh*t. It's hard to "win", but it's absolutely impossible if you don't do anything at all. Follow the rules, CYA, and remain professional. Be accountable for your mistakes, but DO NOT encourage fraud by just accepting it.
There's nothing they can do about it only as long as they choose to do nothing about it.
carlmarxx
·4 months agoI been on eBay for 30 Years with my other ID and seen a lot on this site .And I agree with you . We all agree there are both problem Sellers and Buyers. The FBI reports for all online sites have more case's of buyer fraud and return abuse far passed seller fraud . Also All U.S. states territory's have their own Merchant & Buyer protection statues a long with the Federal Statues that cover returns , no returns ,Refunds and No refunds . Also Snad disputes :that buyers have show proof what seller sold didn't meant f for use .
tarotfindsandmore
·4 months agoExactly. I'm all for allowing buyer returns, even ...probably especially..for remorse. In the name of customer service I will accept the return of any item I sell, provided it's returned in the condition it was received (by the buyer) in. I don't want anyone to feel forced to keep something they realize they don't want or couldn't really afford. I also believe in taking responsibility for my own flubs and will accept free returns for a full refund if I ship something that I've missed a flaw/damage on (in my own post on this topic, I posted a screen shot of my returns for the year and anyone can see I did take a hit on two items).
This scenario (and all cases of buyer fraud/returns abuse) is something altogether different however. In this thread we're seeing a lot of posts that seem to be conflating differences of opinion/seller oversight with a buyer who is willfully attempting fraud. A buyer who reports an INAD because they thought an item was a slightly different shade of blue is not even the same species of human as one who claims they received a brick in place of their actual order. Personally, I wouldn't even question the buyer who doesn't like an item they've received from me, they can just return it. That phony baloney brick buyer is in for a very uncomfortable transaction however.
I always play by the rules so that "brick" is going to be shipped back to me. When I receive it, that buyer will be reported a second time (I will have already reported them once for claiming that's what they received it in the first place), along with photos of everything they've sent me. After that, I will request a call back from customer service, and let them tell me what they're going to do to help me resolve the situation. I'm not going to holler, I'm not going to rant, but I will wear down anyone who makes the mistake of pulling a stunt like this with me using every legitimate tool I have at my disposal.
Loss is a part of doing business. If you try to mess me over, however, it's game on. A buyer who does this may win, but I guarantee you it will be a pyrrhic victory. The effort they'll have to make will far outweigh the value of anything I sell.
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoI was discussing it as not much that can be done in this situation compared to others out there.
It's more of a fraud issue with a buyer.
Will the buyer do it to others?...Maybe...Is there really something that we can hope with artificial intelligence out there that something will be done? Highly unlikely.
adamcartwright
·4 months ago@12345jamesstamps
I would not rely on AI in a case like this.
I'd reach a human on Instagram.
And I wouldn't stop at the US Postmaster. I'd also file an IC3 claim, if the case merited it.
12345jamesstamps
·4 months agoNever been on Instagram so not even sure what it is.
If the seller has the time to pursue this...by all means.
I am just saying...here...yes here...we see sellers with a whole lot of negative feedbacks doing fraud and crime(as you call it) over and over and we can read what they do on negative feedbacks and yet they still do it.
adamcartwright
·4 months ago@12345jamesstamps
Instagram is a social media platform where people post photos, videos, talk about important and unimportant stuff.
The reason I mentioned it is because eBay has an Instagram account, through which you can private message eBay about your issue and interact with an actual human.
lynnsfabfinds
·4 months agoI actually had that happen to me a couple years ago. I ordered a lodge Dutch oven for a friend that was getting married... the order was thru TJmaxx online... I literally opened the box and there was a BRICK! I was so shocked I just stood there a minute... and I burst out laughing... I mean... who does that?! TJmaxx was nice about it and refunded my money and I right away ordered another one which came is ordered... so it does happen but.... yeah. weird!
christworks
·4 months ago@petitepikapika
"Dear Customer,
We take mail fraud and package tampering very seriously. The item was securely packaged and shipped with documented weight and tracking information. A brick would substantially alter the shipment weight, which can be verified through USPS acceptance and transit scans.
At this point, we will be reviewing the shipment details, package weight records, and carrier handling information before proceeding further. If tampering occurred during transit, that would constitute a federal mail crime and will require a USPS Mail Fraud/Mail Theft report.
Please provide clear photos of:
The outside of the shipping box, including all labels
Any visible damage or signs of resealing
All packing materials inside the box
The brick itself
The shipping label showing tracking information
Do not discard any packaging materials, as they may be needed for a carrier investigation. Be advised I will need to provide USPS with your complete contact information so that local investigators can contact you to gather additional information and retrieve the packaging and contents. Sincerely, Seller"
A strongly worded message back is really all that's needed to get these scammers to move on. You don't have to give in right off the bat. They've not even opened a return yet. Stand up for yourself and think outside the box. Otherwise people will treat you like a doormat.
broto_64
·4 months agoI love that.
I just copy and pasted it to a text file for future use.
It's beautiful.
simba6
·4 months agoIt's on line five finger discount without the worry of being perp walked to the mall's security office.
Is it a new or over seas buyer? Come on, free merchandise without worry.
Just have to add a bit to all your prices to cover such theft. I could see an item being stolen but, who carries a supply of bricks around to stuff back in?
adamcartwright
·4 months ago@simba6
I'm not sure raising prices will do much more than lower sales.
We need to fight with both barrels.
I like @christworks approach, and I would also throw IC3 into the convo.