BUYER NEVER PAID FOR ITEM RECEIVED
buyer opened a claim as he stated it took too long.it was closed eventually after he received a refund,but then he received the item and never paid for it .
buyer never helps as they always rule in favor of buyers. i have proof of delivery ,but yet ebay wont help
39 comments
reallynicestamps
·2 years agoHindsight is 20/20 but....
Never ship overseas by Surface.
It seems cheap but is so slow that you will be refunding the buyer as Item Not Received.
Use shipping services that protect you.
That means fast Air Mail rates.
Let the buyer decide if they can afford to total cost of their purchase.
Remember if that overseas buyer could find it locally, they wouldn't be buying from you.
dhbookds
·2 years ago@ittybitnot
Contact CS.....I hate that answer.
understandable.........but at least we have the first step..........confirmation that it "should work".............and @mr_lincoln I would bet if they get enough claims.......we'll see an extended time frame for delivery..........
ittybitnot
·2 years agowe'll see an extended time frame for delivery..........
@dhbookds
I would NOT count on that... be careful what you ask for around here. LOL. More stuff will BREAK!!!!
Happy holidays to you and yours!
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@ittybitnot , @dhbookds
I agree, prior to Covid I successfully had a few INRs extended in a timely manner with a quick call to Home Office. Now "Contact CS" is like a challenging event. I am convinced AI knows what accounts have issues so the Have us call you link shows up for them via the Help and Contact link ... for about a year now any time I click a link here where a member has said to use the Have us call you link over on the left I find NOTHING there when I click the link. I have not had anything to talk to them about in the time period so I figure AI is not giving me that option ...
ittybitnot
·2 years agoAnd @ittybitnot your suggestion about using the "auto-pay initiative" to bill a buyer for a situation like this is definitely something we will pass along to the appropriate teams!
@mr_lincoln
According to your new found "admirer" the auto pay initiative may not truly be to "improve the buyer OR seller experience here as eBay so claims. You may wish to read another take on the situation.
They can "pass it along" all they want, but after I read the post directed to me....I have no confidence that it would work. ebay's objectives of having a "paid for sale" has been met. There is no need to "help the seller" buyers are happy they get free stuff. Read it and let me know your take when you have time.
See post #39 here, and scroll down to the response directed to me.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying/Anyone-else-furious-about-ebay-s-new-quot-pre-checkout-quot/td-p/33923085/page/4
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@ittybitnot First, the post numbering reference will vary as I have threads come up newest to oldest and others have theirs set opposite. Here is a screen shot of the #39 on that thread you mentioned.
The two situations are different. For INR claims my very first suggestion is to extend the claim window which would cut out a lot of claims ... they can still be extended by a Seller contacting Home Office for another 4 days, I doubt eBay would change that existing extension feature. The alternative suggestion of mine for Auto-pay on INR claims is simply having a Buyer pay what they already paid once ... they have already gone through whatever payment method they had to purchase the item in the first place. Suggesting a warning that if they file the claim and the item is eventually delivered might have them wait a little longer before filing the claim. Those hoping for a Freebie via INR claims will be frustrated with either the extended claim period or the Auto-pay function on INR claims.
As it relates to the Buyer's claim in the post above I would say its one of those "change this or I will leave" type comments which sounds great but I suspect it is seldom followed through on ... idle threat. We heard the same thing when Managed Payments came along. For my account I turned Auto-pay OFF as soon as I learned it was added to my account ... then out of the blue a few weeks ago eBay turned it back ON ... on a Sunday evening. A customer messaged me asking if giving their payment info was necessary to bid on my items and I went ballistic because I had turned it OFF weeks prior. I asked Home Office via a thread post to their reps if that was intentional or a glitch ... care to wager what the answer to that question will be??? I say "will be" because it has been "passed on" ... literally speaking or pun intended, take your pick ... thus far they have "passed on" replying. The answer to THAT question should not take more than a day ...
For myself I think Auto-pay is a great tool for those who need it, New Sellers, Sellers of high value high Scam items. The issue was really how eBay implemented Auto-pay, like the wrong way. Sure, add it to an account, message the Seller that it is there and let them decide if they want to use it or not. Now the norm seems to be Opt ALL accounts in (Like the EIS roll out), don;t tell anyone it was done and then have them figure out where the new feature is and turn it off if they don't want to use it.
Sorry to ramble but that's my take on things ...
ittybitnot
·2 years ago@mr_lincoln
From the post mentioned:
@ittybitnot something to keep in mind with the idea of sanctioning non-payers vs what eBay has come up with so far is there's a bigger picture in play here. Not only is eBay trying to come up with a solution that balances buyer and seller interests, but likely more important (to eBay) is shareholder interests.
For many years, eBay defined GMV and Active Buyers by successfully closed transactions between users, regardless of whether the transaction was consummated (paid for). At the end of 2021, eBay changed the definitions to only include paid sales.
Wall Street has not been particularly happy with how things are going with both GMV and Active Buyer stats, so part of why eBay feels the need to "solve the problem of unpaid items on the platform" isn't just because they "listened to sellers"....it's because the only way they can count transactions for GMV and Active Buyers is if they are actually paid.
Also keep in mind that it doesn't matter if the order is refunded after the fact, either due to cancellation or return, as soon as it's paid, it counts.
That could also explain why eBay went for the automatic opt-in - that's a good way to get the most transactions possible being paid for as some sellers may not even realize they are opted in and/or realize they have the option to opt-out.
Of course if the new way of doing things runs off more buyers than it "creates" through forced payment, that's not going to help with those bigger picture concerns, so they're now trying to find ways to make it more palatable.
That's not to say I disagree with you on any particular point, just that eBay is being driven by more than just buyer and seller feedback on this one.
No problem.
"Get that seller paid" will not have the same influence if a "paid" transaction is already recorded for the eBay GMV tally. Paid, is recorded even it the sale is cancelled, refunded, by hook or by crook after the fact. Just another perspective as to the WHY ebay was so willing to run paying buyers off????? With new new "tweaks" being explored, apparently their FORCED program did not work as expected or intended. I do apologize if my link was not accurate.
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@ittybitnot I have read more than once the comment about running Buyers off ... I'm not so sure how much of that is actually real and for myself I would have no problem selecting a payment method to bid on things ... I actually do that on numerous sites to acquire inventory via public auctions ... on several when I register to bid I can add a note that I will pay at pick up ... they have no issue with that approach either but some require a payment method before bidding and as part of the registration process. I can also change the payment method prior to registering ... it really is NO BIG DEAL. So on a certain level I do not understand the complaints.
I would think anyone bidding or entertaining offers on eBay would know ahead of time how they will pay for an item ... but maybe that's just me being practical. Maybe some of the eBay Buyers want to feel like at the end of the day they have an "out" if they sense something might go sideways on a transaction ... which speaks more to Buyer confidence on eBay than anything else ...
carlmarxx
·2 years agoI forced payment on buyers will stop INR's do to USPS and UPS going down in service and their high number of missed placed or lost packages nor even delayed missed sent parcels a long with their track on their web sites with incorrect information. I can't blame buyers for filing when the tracking goes dead or off the radar .
dhbookds
·2 years agoWow, @kyle@ebay .....thanks for the prompt and welcome answer!!!!!
Next step is to get this published on the help pages........so we don't have to depend on @ittybitnot to keep it bookmarked..............
@moviecraze786
@mr_lincoln
ittybitnot
·2 years agoso we don't have to depend on @ittybitnot to keep it
@dhbookds
LOL.... I have LOTS of stuff 'saved/bookmarked'........it was a fluke that I could even find it!!!!! My (our?) lucky day?????
Contact CS.....I hate that answer.
lakefor94
·2 years agoThanks to all that worked on this thread and solution.
Nice to have a course of action.
dhbookds
·2 years agoprobably a vain attempt.......but
@devon@ebay
@elizabeth@ebay
@kyle@ebay
To keep this simple........is there an ebay policy that will refund the seller in this situation?
Buyer files a Not Received claim, seller refunds by the obligatory time frame because item has not been delivered, buyer receives item, seller appeals with proof of delivery..........
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@dhbookds
Good thinking ... similar issue being discussed on this thread: Re: eBay needs to EXTEND the claim period on the I... - The eBay Community
It discusses some proactive things eBay could do to cut down on this kind of thing ... you know, common sense stuff and easy to do.
kyle@ebay
Hey @dhbookds the seller may have the opportunity to successfully appeal and get refunded in this situation. The primary qualifications are that the seller refunded voluntarily, and that tracking was uploaded and validated on time. If those two criteria are met, I'd definitely recommend having the seller contact our CS teams to appeal.
And @ittybitnot your suggestion about using the "auto-pay initiative" to bill a buyer for a situation like this is definitely something we will pass along to the appropriate teams!
ittybitnot
·2 years agoI'd definitely recommend having the seller contact our CS teams to appeal.
@kyle@ebay
Have the regular outsourced CS TEAMS been given the adequate information to actually ACT on this?
OR
Is it the same old "the buyer has been refunded, and there is nothing we can do", "ask the buyer to repay"still the response du jour?
mr_lincoln
·2 years agoI too thank you @kyle@ebay for responding here and you can add the same "auto-pay initiative" suggestion as outlines on the following thread from earlier today for INR claims this time of year ... the other suggestion on this other thread is extending the INR claim period from 4 to at least 10 days during a historically KNOWN high volume and slow shipping period around the holidays: Re: eBay needs to EXTEND the claim period on the I... - The eBay Community
monster-deals
·2 years agoDid you appeal?
bauble-babes
·2 years agoOne way to prevent this:
As soon as the Buyer receives the refund, contact the shipping company and have them intercept the "lost" item (if & when it's found) so that it is returned to you and not the buyer.
During the holiday rush, items may get stuck just sitting at some hub for months until they are found and shipped. The intercept route will assure that the package is shipped back to you.
dhbookds
·2 years agoFor those with a better memory than mine.....
When a buyer was refunded for a Not Received item, but then received the item.........didn't we see some posts that if an appeal by the seller was filed, showing delivery.......ebay refunded the seller? There may have been some time limit......if so, don't remember what it was, but I could swear some sellers got refunded by ebay since ebay "forced" the refund........
I would try an appeal.........
ittybitnot
·2 years ago.didn't we see some posts that if an appeal by the seller was filed, showing delivery.......ebay refunded the seller?
@dhbookds
Yes, and I saved it. This link starts on page 3 (with the screen shots).
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping/eBay-s-new-shipping-policy-with-changes-regarding-INR-s/td-p/31974704/page/3
Never did find a "formal" public facing policy. Maybe you just need to "know where to go" which is like NOT the appeal flow?
dhbookds
·2 years agoYES.........thanks so much............ hopefully someone will try it and let us know what happens at this point.......
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@ittybitnot Thanks, never heard of or knew that ... Don't use Facebook either despite the thread explaining how to for the appeal process ... in the end, too many steps for a process that can be made as a simple point and click solution ... seeing that it's 2023 going on 2024.
good info though ... wonder if it still works. Can't imagine eBay giving away part of the farm indefinitely but I could be wrong.
ittybitnot
·2 years ago@mr_lincoln
I think you posted in that thread ^^^^^^^^. #26+ An update by the OP of the original post of 06/21 said the process was still working as of 1/27/22 per message #34
@dhbookds
Yes, hopefully someone will give it a try. Note: the OP @popblox got assistance via the social media portal "Ask eBay" which was Twitter (now called something else?) . See the second screens black background w/ red underline.
Since there is still no public policy, it may or may not still work. Regular CS would not be useful as demonstrated by both buyers and seller victims of the ongoing "fake tracking scam" fiasco which does offer some redress though the social media portals IF YOU KNOW TO GO THERE.
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@ittybitnot LOL ... thank you for remembering I posted on that thread because I certainly can't!
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@moviecraze786 , @sakic92710
I actually agree with both of you on eBay's claim when a Buyer does not receive their item by the estimated delivery date when a Seller ships within their handling time. The delay is NOT the Seller's it is the carriers like UPS, FedEx and USPS.
eBay needs to charge the Buyer's payment method if they get a refund for a late shipment but then the package is delivered, period.
On an eBay claim for an item not received Sellers can contact eBay on day 4 of the claim and get UPTO 4 days additional extension of the claim BUT eBay has never published that little detail. During Covid they were extending claims UP TO 10 days! WHY? Because they knew the carriers were not working at full capacity. The same is true this time of year AND EVERY YEAR AT THIS TIME!!!! Higher shipping volumes and slower deliveries are common from sometime in November until the end of the year, PERIOD! This is NOT a new situation.
sakic92710
·2 years agoMy last negative was from a buyer who stole from me, too. Received a refund & kept the item when it arrived 4 days later. eBay just shrugs their shoulders. eBay's take : It's up to YOU to deal with the buyer even though WE gave them YOUR money back.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoProof of delivery is not enough. You also need to respond to the case properly and in a timely manner. After the case closes, eBay has no power to force the buyer to repay you or to return the item.
You selected the shipping services you would offer to your buyer, and you hired the shipping service the buyer chose to deliver the item on your behalf.So if it was delivered late, it may not be your fault but it is still your responsibility.
By eBay policy, the buyer is allowed to file a case for "Item Not Received" after the estimated delivery window has passed.
So we need more information.
How did you respond the the item not Received case when it was filed by the buyer, and how long did you wait to respond?
How long after the estimated delivery window was the item delivered to the buyer?
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoMissing a few details. Did the buyer open an INR claim when the item had not arrived by the eBay estimated delivery date? If so did you respond to the claim and upload the tracking information at that time? How long after the eBay projected delivery date did the item actually arrive? Where was the item shipped to and did it by chance go through customs in some foreign country when you shipped it out of South Africa?
There is a known scam where buyers let the item sit in customs, where it is waiting for the buyer to pay the customs fees, until after the projected delivery date. They then file a INR and wait for eBay to close the case in their favor, refund them and then they go to customs, pay the fees and pickup the item.
moviecraze786
OP2 years agoHe filed 3 weeks before the item arrived as he claimed that he wont have ebay protection after that.promised he would send funds back to me as soon as item arrived,this never happened.I loaded tracking nr proof of delivery to ebay but it fell on deaf ears as usual
candd205
·2 years agoThat's quite an expensive item. Sorry that happened to you I was going to ask if you live close enough to the buyer to file a claim in small claims court, but then I see you live in South Africa, so that won't work for you.
inhawaii
·2 years agoDo you think you, or ebay or anybody can MAKE him pay now? No.
Do you think you, or ebay or anybody can MAKE him return the item now? No.
All you can do is ask the buyer to pay (or return the item) and hope that he does.
Hopefully this is an honest person. I think most people are.
Good luck to you.
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoIf it involved the U.S. postal service, they will pay up, or they will face mail fraud charges. I've had the postal service go after my buyers before, demanding they return my product or pay for it with proof of receipts, or be charged with mail fraud should they refuse.
USPS stance is that consumers are obligated to pay for anything they purchased thru the mail.
Given the OP is in Africa, not sure what defense they have, as we dont know where the item was actually shipped, what shipping services were involved, and their country will have totally different laws than ours.
moviecraze786
OP2 years agothanks you guys.buyer is not even responding to my messages any longer
ittybitnot
·2 years agoDo you think you, or ebay or anybody can MAKE him pay now?
@inhawaii
Personally, I think it would be the single most useful thing eBay could do with their new "auto-pay" initiative.... Auto-bill the buyer for the refunded merchandise when the item subsequently shows "delivered". New "enhancement", get that seller paid!!!!!
mr_lincoln
·2 years ago@ittybitnot BINGO ...
rugerskick
·2 years agoEbay could put leverage on him to pay. They could say, pay for the item or your account is terminated.
carlmarxx
·2 years agoEbay could do it ,But they will not do so . Ebay see's carrier issues delay , missed placed or parcel 's Seller's fault for using that problem carrier and INR's well deserved for using said shipping carrier. A few years ago I had a ebay U.S. Rep and a U.S. supervisor tell me It is fault for using USPS when having some shipping issue delay to my buyers !And I should switch to FedEx or UPS to avoid a defect .
carlmarxx
·2 years agoMy fault .