Buyer making a fraudulent return request -- What do I do???
I sold an item--a plush bird with a sound mechanism sewn inside--and clearly stated the sound does not work. The buyer decided to cut the bird open and pulled the sound mechanism apart, and is now claiming the item "arrived damaged" because some internal part was broken, when in fact the buyer caused this damage and rendered the item unsellable in the process.
By selecting "arrived damaged" as the return reason, the only options I'm given are to accept the return (and be charged for return shipping, even though I gave free shipping on the sale) or offer a refund. What I think the buyer ultimately wants is to keep the item and get a full or partial refund, but I don't think the buyer is entitle to any refund, because I sent an item that was exactly as described and she chose to damage it in an attempt to "fix" the sound.
On the advice of eBay customer service, I've already filed a buyer report for abuse of the returns process, but the return request is still there. The customer service agent also advised me to ask eBay to step in, but as I understand it, I'll lose the ability to deduct up to 50% off the refund for the item being damaged by the buyer. I'm worried that by not accepting one of these options that are being forced on me, I'll be in an even worse position even though I did everything right as the seller.
electronaut
·6 months agoFirst off, when Sellers accuse buyers of 'fraudulent' behavior -- but then make us go looking for their listing...well the **bleep** detector alarms start beeping.
You listed it in condition category 'NEW'. A collectible item 22 yrs old that was 'used' as part of someone's collection, even just to sit on a shelf or display case, even in a smoke free home, even if it was only handled with kid gloves...is clearly not 'NEW', specifically in this case, NEW means BRAND NEW. You yourself used it enough to know it's battery was dead.
Re: "...even though I did everything right as the seller. "
No, you did not. You should have listed it (in this category) as USED. You were free to describe it further as 'Like New with Tags', 'Mint condition with Tags' or any number of other ways of communicating that it was what the pictures showed it was.
You also implied that the item could be opened (cut or stitching pulled, etc.) to replace the battery -- but you apparently didn't know that was true, and the Buyer was left to discover this on their own. Perhaps the buyer opened it and found the battery leaking acid and the electronics corroded? In that case it was not 'undamaged' as required to qualify for listing as 'NEW'.
You are the Seller, the expert on what you are selling, and expected to know the item and describe it with full disclosure, in good faith.
Ebay first rule is 'Sellers are responsible for their listings'. Take responsibility for this one and be more careful describing anything as 'NEW' in the future. In this product category, NEW means BRAND NEW, the item you sold was not NEW, nor was it BRAND NEW, and that is why you got it back.
onefootflipper
·6 months agoDon't worry about being right or wrong, only about making the correct business decision.
Refunding the thing and blocking the customer is the result that will cost you the least amount of money. You should do that. Otherwise you pay another $6 to get that worthless ripped open bird back and you will still have to refund the money.
In the future with items like that you should list them as used and put "NO SOUND" as the first words in the title.
tobaccocardyahoo
·6 months agoThe mistake was offering this item for sale on Ebay in a category does not allow Parts Only listings.
It has no business being offered on Ebay as New or even as Used.
The seller did nothing right on this listing.
Fighting this return and allowing Ebay to step in, would be consistent with the rest of this transaction.
bashort
·6 months agoall that matters is the buyer says it is not as described and wants to return it. All you can do is accept the return, I would absolutely not give a partial refund
kibble-net
·6 months agoWhen you are in business for yourself, sometimes you will do everything right, and still have to pay the price for the customer's stupidity.
It is up to you to determine whether or not you are able to handle being in business for yourself.
TL;DR "stuff" happens. (keeping it G rated for the care bear moderators)
pickapaper
·6 months ago@kibble-net wrote: " When you are in business for yourself, sometimes you will do everything right, and still have to pay the price for the customer's stupidity. "
In this particular case, I don't think the "customer's stupidity" was so stupid. @gavulab put right in the description "there is no way to replace the battery without cutting the bird open" so when the buyer got the bird, what did she do but cut the bird open so she could replace the battery. She was only doing what OP put in the description would need to be done to make the bird work.
It actually sounds like the bird has a sound maker that when it goes out, it can't be fixed (kind of like those that they used to put in greeting cards and other things). If the bird really was battery operated, there should have been access to get to the battery.
OP thinks he did everything right but in this case, I'm not so sure.
msha3839
·6 months agoPrice of dealing with customers..in this case buyer clearly voids MBG by trying to repair the item, regardless if it was listed as new or used…
momtoabeautifuldaughter
·6 months agoYou'd think so but I had a buyer tear an item apart and included that info in messages and when I contacted eBay they told me I had to accept the return.
pickapaper
·6 months agoI know that but most buyers don't know that. I was pointing out that someone inferred the buyer was stupid and I don't think she was stupid; I think she was just trying to fix the bird in the method as pointed out by the seller.
le-5262
·6 months agoI would probably be irritated, as well...
but I would just accept the return
and get my damaged bird back
ALL of it
...then I'd probably gripe to anyone that came to the house and noticed my new bird exhibit...
until the next time something came up
cambriachick
·6 months agoSince it has been cut open and can't be resold, I would just refund. Why be stuck paying for return shipping.
kensgiftshop
·6 months agoYou listed it as brand new, which it wasn't if it was 24 years old and didn't work.
inhawaii
·6 months agoThe way I see it, you only have 2 choices here.
#1) Issue a refund and tell the buyer to keep the item.
#2) Accept the return, pay for return postage, refund the buyer when you get the item back.
luckythewinner
·6 months agoI sold an item--a plush bird with a sound mechanism sewn inside--and clearly stated the sound does not work.
If this is the Wild Republic Backyard Bird, then you sold it as "brand new" and also said "does not work".
Those are incompatible, so there is a contradiction in your listing.
The condition Brand New specifically states "New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item".
The buyer is not defrauding you when he relies on one of the incompatible statements in your listing.
momtoabeautifuldaughter
·6 months ago1. You listed this as new and it doesn't fit the eBay description for new items
2. Whether it makes sense or not you gave the buyer the idea to cut the bird open to change the battery
3. Most item like this have an actual way to access battery if it can be changed
deltilogical
·6 months ago@christworks makes some very good points. I do think the description pointed out there was no sound even if the item was not exactly 'new'. I don't think anything allowes a customer to dstroy the item and then want to get a refund. Unfortunately, this is ebay and the seller will end up writing this off as a loss. To add to iamalwaysright's hardball tactic, let the buyer know you have contacted the Post Office Police to find out who opened the box and damaged the item and they will be in touch soon.
pickapaper
·6 months ago@gavulab
In addition to what @christworks said above, you also have this sentence in the bird's description: " Unfortunately, due to the age, the sound does not work and there is no way to replace the battery without cutting the bird open."
So, your buyer was doing exactly what you suggested would have to be done to make this bird work. She cut it open to change the battery. Are you sure the bird even uses a battery to work? Usually if an item uses a battery, there is a way to get to it to change it. This sounds like one of those electronic gadget things that works until it no longer does and there is no way to fix it. Your buyer probably cut open the bird to "change the battery" and then found out there isn't a battery.
christworks
·6 months ago@gavulab You sold the bird with no returns. You are not a Top Rated Seller. You cannot deduct 50% of the refund regardless.
Also, you are in the wrong. You need to school yourself on eBay's item condition descriptions as they override anything in your listing.
You listed that plush as "new." Here is how eBay defines that:
You knowingly listed a damaged item as new. One of the basic requirements of a “new” item is that it must be undamaged. That item should not have been listed as new. At best, it should have been listed as pre-owned. I would even argue it should have been listed for parts, though personally I might gamble with pre-owned because that tends to scare off many buyers who look for opportunities to exploit mistakes.
When you don’t accept returns and a savvy buyer notices you listed something as new when it clearly isn’t in new condition, they know they have you over a barrel.
The correct move here is to issue the buyer a full refund. If you don’t, eBay will do it for you whether you or the buyer asks them to step in. At that point you won’t just lose the item and the money—you’ll also receive a strike on your account.
iamalwaysright
·6 months agoYou’re correct in your skepticism of the eBay cs agent advice. Reporting the buyer for returns abuse will not do anything to help your issue with the buyer right now, but it might help future sellers of this buyer. It’s likely this buyer did this to a previous seller before but they thought it was too futile to report the buyer of this abuse, who knows but it’s possible. So good thing you reported the buyer.
There is no worse option a seller can do than asking eBay to step in. You’ll lose everything and get penalized for it. The buyer is pretty much already guaranteed 50% of their money refunded to them. Accept the return and when you receive the damaged item, deduct 50% from the refund as you mentioned. You will not have this option if you ask eBay to step in.
A few things that you CAN do that might help, but chances are against it. 1) when you receive the damaged item, contact eBay again and tell them this. I’ve gotten agents who were able to just either close the return on the spot for me (no refund to the buyer) or issued the buyer the full refund and issued me a courtesy credit equal to the full refund amount. As I said, this is very unlikely to happen, but it can. 2) Play hardball with the buyer. Message him that you will accept the return. But also say that up to a 50% amount deduction of the refund amount may be implemented if the item arrives to us in a different condition than it was sent out (I.e. altered or cut). And end it with “if you agree to these terms, please ship the item back to us.” This implies that if the buyer has a problem with the deduction, to NOT ship it back. I’ve done this before and the return would eventually close out without a refund because “buyer didn’t return the item back in time.”
albertabrightalberta
·6 months agoIMO, this is sneaky and underhanded and plays the buyer as ignorant of their buyer protections.
My suggestion is to report the buyer for abuse, accept the return, pay return shipping and contact ebay after receipt of the return. (You can't deduct anything because you don't have a return policy.)
iamalwaysright
·6 months agoTo each his own. I did not do any research about the OP and commented based purely off of what they said in the first post and took it at face value.
There are times when not everything is as clear cut and I believe measures can be taken to protect yourself when the system is failing. I’m not sure I agree that this will always play into a buyer’s ignorance to MBG. Because with my issue was that the MBG itself was failing because it doesn’t enforce its entire policy. If the buyer knew about the entire policy, they’d know they can’t return their item despite the system still allowing a return to be open. The buyer bought multiple shirts and claimed not as described complaining it’s 100% cotton despite it actually stating 100% cotton in my item specifics, buyer must’ve not read description. They didn’t care though. Thru messages I find out that the buyer had cut off all the size tags from the shirts and washed and dried them all. Buyer explains to me that his laundering and alterations should still totally be acceptable for a return. Despite eBay return policy clearly saying laundered clothes cannot be returned, the system still allows these returns to be filed and will award the buyer if ebay is asked to step in. I told the buyer the truth, that an altered returned item will be prone to a less than full refund.
caldreamer
·6 months agoNever ask EBAY to step in, they always rule in favor of the customer (and you will get a "defect" against your account for wasting their time).
You have 2 options (give "immediate refund" full purchase price (EBAY fees will be returned to you) or ask customer to "return item" (you have to pay return postage). Because you had NO RETURNS on this item (you are not eligible for EBAY protection. Always better to allow returns as customer will always "find a way" to return the item anyway.
Protections for Top Rated Sellers
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