Buyer falsely claiming a Sterling silver spoon I sold was fake. EBay's only option is to refund?
Summary: En la discusión, freebirdtim plantea un problema relacionado con un comprador que afirmó falsamente que una cuchara de plata esterlina vendida era falsa. jdbelt1960 y gurlcat entablan una conversación detallada sobre cómo diferenciar la plata esterlina de la plata pura, destacando los distintos niveles de pureza y aleaciones utilizadas en objetos de plata. gurlcat explica que la plata esterlina tiene un 92.5% de plata y menciona otras aleaciones como "plata de moneda". También se trata sobre la tendencia de comprar metales preciosos para el reciclaje. gurlcat ofrece disculpas a jdbelt1960 por posibles malentendidos, destacando su intención de proporcionar información útil. Además, comparten experiencias personales relacionadas con situaciones similares de venta de metales preciosos.
Got this not too bright buyer who's trying to claim an 1800's Gorham Sterling silver spoon is fake. He first claimed the Gorham hallmark was fake, until I showed him a few listings from reputable sellers that had spoons with the exact same hallmark. Then he claimed his metal detector is telling him it's silver plated copper, which is baloney. I'm a long time metal detectorist and that's not possible. Then he tells me he can see copper through the silver plating, which isn't possible, since that would never happen with a Sterling silver piece.
What's eBay's response? Put a hold on future funds and only give me the option to accept the return. Nice of them to blindly believe this **bleep** story and don't even give me the option to tell my side of the story. To make matters worse, this guy has left two negative feedbacks in the past month for sellers who allegedly sold him fake silver. Seems like a pattern here. End of rant!
twk
·4 months agoBird I just went and looked at that spoon. I KNOW silver. It IS Gorham, and it is a salt spoon. I also believe it says sterling as well.
Now I get what he is up to. He is claiming that the item is not Gorham, even though it says so and is also marked sterling. He is cunning. He figures for what he paid for it you will just tell him to keep it.
GET IT BACK and hold it until the fall when silver generally sells higher due to the holidays.
Please refund this Critten, offer the full refund. My guess is that he is not going to return it. If he should become a total jerk and leave you neg or neutral feedback answer that he is wrong and show the item and the back markings in your response.
twk
·4 months agosilver prices have been high recently so there are a lot of silver speculators out there buying silver, sterling, etc. Do not argue with him, just have him send it back and refund him. I wonder if he will send it back or decide to keep it.
authentic*vintage
·4 months agoFor silver, always put your gram weight in the title and in the listing - you can get a little set of scales for this - take a picture of the item on the scale as well.
Also, look up what silver scrap is worth on the day you list - that is the LEAST you will take for a sterling item. Some items will have additional value based on brand and collectibility, but scrap value is your rock bottom.
It is a gamble selling precious metals on ebay but I have done pretty well with it in the past.
Just tell the buyer to return the spoon, refund when you receive it and be grateful it isn't a $300 + sale.
grandmasjewelry123
·4 months agoI sold Taxco silver to England. The strangest shipping pattern going out, too complicated to explain here. The Bangles were marked Taxco and 925 and it was silver. Customer claimed it was fake and it went to UK. Ebay refunded them money but didn't charge me. I did lose half the sale because of the crazy shipping issue. Sounds like the same customer behavior.
jdbelt1960
·4 months agoHow to tell the difference between sterling silver and real silver
Sterling silver and silver look exactly the same, and if you have silver jewelry, it’s most likely sterling. The best indicator is the marking, or hallmark, stamped on in small numbers or letters. Sterling silver will have a 925 or STER, and fine silver will have a 999 or FS.
A lot of people are buying metals for scrap. Sterling silver is .925 silver and Silver is .999. Most fine silver would be sterling .925 as silver .999 is too soft for everyday use.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@jdbelt1960 I don't know if you wrote that heading in bold or copy/pasted it from somewhere, but sterling vs. "real" is not the true dichotomy at all. Sterling silver IS real silver, just not pure silver, but almost. That 925 means it is 92.5% silver and 7.5% 'other' (usually copper and maybe a tiny bit of tin, zinc, nickel, manganese or whatever). The non-silver metal content is included not to pinch pennies but because (like pure gold) pure silver is a bit too soft to hold up to wear and tear, scratches easily and may even break. A small amount of harder metals makes a big difference.
The 3-digit silver fineness numbers just mean "out of 1000", and they translate to percentages with a tenth-percent precision.
So, even 999 "fine" silver isn't truly pure; it's 99.9% pure. It is typically used only for bullion (coins, bars, etc.), which may have beautiful designs that could be easily scratched, but bullion isn't for wearing or pouring tea out of; it's kept in protective cases and hoarded, LOL.
BTW, 925 and 999 aren't the only fineness levels commonly used for silver alloys. "Argentium" silver is any level more pure than sterling but less than fine. "Coin silver" is .900 (90%). It's what all the old American quarters, dimes, etc. were until 1964, but there are also dining ware and decorative objects made with coin silver, and some of those were actually made from melted-down coins! Countries outside the UK and US made/make a lot of jewelry and other items with .800 and .835 silver. Whenever I get one of those, I call it "Almost Sterling" in the title, because even thought it's not sterling, I don't want to miss all the people using it for a search keyword, when some of them might not mind a slightly less-pure option, if they like the looks of it anyway.
My all-time favorite American coins are the 'war nickels' made only from 1942-1945, out of 35% silver, 56% copper, and 9% manganese. Believe it or not, silver was actually less valuable than nickel during that brief time, when nickel was a crucial metal for military manufacturing.
The grassy sidewalk strips of my street are full of war nickels because a streetcar used to run right down the center of it, up until the early 50's, and the fare was 5 cents. Fortunately the sidewalk strips are public property and I can metal detect them, no permission needed. 😁
jdbelt1960
·4 months agoYou did not say anything that I didn't share. We all don't have the patience to write a thesis like you do.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@jdbelt1960 Ouch I didn't mean to offend you, I apologize. I just wanted to make the correction about sterling silver being real silver, and from there I provided info for anyone who might be interested in the subject. Far from a thesis though; I left a ton of other things out.
jdbelt1960
·4 months agoNo worries. You always spread good info. I had a similar issue as the OP with a gold pendant with a chain included you may remember. My pendant was solid gold but the chains (which I bought separate and not exactly cheap) was gold filled. Solid gold chains would have outpriced my item. I had no idea about scrappers. You gave me great advice at that time.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@jdbelt1960 Ohhhh, YES! I remember very well. And it looked suspicious to you how both buyers purchased immediately after listing, but really it made sense because if the chains were also solid gold then your prices were incredible deals.
But not all precious metal "hounds" (that's what I call them) are also true scrappers. Melting down solid objects takes knowledge and expensive equipment, even more if the goal is not just melting but refining out the pure gold or silver. There are a lot of people just buying non-broken items cheap and selling them for more, still intact. I do it all the time. I have no desire to make dumb little bars to hoard in my closet, ha.
broto_64
·4 months agoDear Buyer, I am so sorry you are unhappy with your purchase.
Please return the item for a full refund.
Thank you,
Seller
freebirdtim
OP4 months agoGold wash: "A term for a piece that has an extremely thin layer of gold, applied by either dipping or burnishing the metal, but are not plated." And no, he said he could see copper coming through the silver plating on the handle, which is ridiculous.
As for the other poster's comment, I will argue with anyone who accuses me of selling fake silver items. He's doing harm to my business by stating that and even more harm if he leaves a neg stating that falsehood. I sell a lot of silver items and that would kill any future sales. Sorry if you think I should kiss his rear end, but what he's doing is wrong and harmful to my business.
marnotom!
·4 months agoLook around eBay. There are lots of questionable negative feedback reviews out there on eBay. As others have said, how you respond to a negative feedback comment says a lot more about you as a seller than the actual feedback comment. Something straightforward like, "I stand behind my merchandise. This item is authentic" would give me more confidence as a potential buyer, particularly as the rest of your feedback received has been positive. Besides, that feedback isn't likely going to show up under "most relevant" anyway.
Looks like we're dealing with two peas from the same pod, anyway. Your buyer isn't changing their stance, and you're not changing your perspective on this despite many posts with good advice.
twk
·4 months agoYour pride is hurt by his insinuation. Been there and it is not a good feeling.
We, here, can see the item you sold and know it was what you claimed.
Your buyer is a jerk and playing the market. He is playing that you will give him the item, free, because you do not want to pay the return and original shipping, plain and simple.
Freebird, sorry if I am direct. I have been in your situation about other things. Ebay has buyers that do nothing but this kind of stuff, sadly.
Call his bluff and tell him to send it back for full refund. I do not think he will as that was a pretty nice buy.
albertabrightalberta
·4 months ago@freebirdtim
Disclaimer: I don't know silverware so this question may sound dumb, but what is "gold wash" on the bowl? I assume that's some type of gold-colored tinting but is it possible that that's what makes the buyer believe that plating is wearing off and thinks it's copper showing?
If you can show the buyer other examples of that spoon with gold wash, it might help him understand that it's made that way (assuming it is).
twk
·4 months agoalberta - a gold wash on the bowl is a wash of gold, real gold on the piece that protects the silver from acid foods. It was always an extra and cost more. Over, say, 100 years plus, the gold can wear down due to use and polishing.
freebirdtim
OP4 months ago"Dear buyer, I'm sorry you are unhappy with your item. I can assure you it's 100% real. If you are not satisfied, please return it for a full refund."
That would have been my response if he hadn't sent me this message first:
"I just checked all Gorham Hallmarks and if there are fakes. This is a counterfeit Gorham item."
Sorry, but that's an unacceptable comment to someone who knows what they're selling. I take great care to be sure nothing I sell is fake or not as described. To tell EBay I'm selling counterfeit silver harms my seller standing. If I happily tell him to return it, that makes it look like I knew I was selling something fake. Not acceptable for a buyer to do that in my book, especially since he's done it to other sellers before me.
toomuchstuffagain35
·4 months agoYou won't win this one.
STOP arguing with him and just tell him to return it for a refund.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@freebirdtim To be honest there is really no reason you would have to tell him to return it. He obviously already knew he could return the item, and was only writing to see if you'd refund without a return. But you were not obliged to reply to him at all.
respectsyoutech
·4 months agoIt's not fair at times for sellers during an experience like this.
But it is what it is. And in the long-term, most gain more than they lose. Especially if sticking with it.
Your very best defense, is to be as polite as possible (as hard as it can be to bite our tongue at times).
But even more so, in how you carefully, and very professionally handle that PUBLIC reply to negative feedback, on your page - doing so in the most calm, polite, professional manner possible - also making sure to include your certainly on it being an authentic, silver item - since that's what future buyers will be paying close attention to, anytime they read negative feedback.
For me, that public reply makes or breaks my taking chance on a seller.
This is the best #1 way to prevent negative feedback reflecting nearly as badly - if you only have 1, maybe 2 negatives, and handle it as politely and professionally as possible - many, if not most future buyers will be much more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Some people are out to get us. It's true.
tools*
·4 months agoIt's a $23 sale (plus tax). The buyer might've been watching the price of silver, and when it dipped the spoon suddenly became silver plated.
le-5262
·4 months agoI hope you get your spoon back.
reallynicestamps
·4 months agoNo refunds without return.
You will likely have to pay for return shipping, but if you do this before they make a Claim, there will be no effect on your selling account.
No refunds without return.
And by cooperating, you also avoid negative feedback.
No refunds without return.
And yes , the negs for those claims sounds suspicious.
Cut your losses, get the piece back, refund promptly, relist and resell.
No refunds without return.
And block them.
You might also be able to Report them for overuse of the Money Back Guarantee
No refunds without return.
inhawaii
·4 months ago"Dear buyer, I'm sorry you are unhappy with your item. I can assure you it is 100% real. If you are not satisfied, please return it for a full refund."
luckythewinner
·4 months agoThis is how eBay disputes have been handled since 2008, when eBay introduced the Money Back Guarantee for buyers.
eBay is not going to send someone to the buyer's house to test the spoon that a buyer claims you sent. They are going to side with the buyer because it is in their interest to do so.
respectsyoutech
·4 months agoSorry you are dealing with this.
I've seen similar patterns with buyers who claimed a keyboard was faulty - I knew it wasn't.
Checked the feedback they left on other computer sellers, and wouldn't you know...
Seems every computer they bought had "faulty keyboard issues" lol (was 100% certain ours was fine, but still gave them a partial refund order as they had liked).
But you just have to bite the bullet sometimes and issue the refund - AFTER receiving item back in same condition.
If not in same condition, you can offer partial - but would be cautious, since feedback is leverage on sellers at times.
Ebay offers buyers a money back guarantee, and not a whole lot sellers can do in most cases when claims are made.
Hopefully you at least get the item back, in same condition.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoYou've been here long enough to know how eBay works: If buyer opens an NAD case, there are just two options and you probably know that.
freebirdtim
OP4 months ago"Just tell him that he can return it for a full refund"
So I lose $12 shipping and now eBay thinks I'm selling fake silver due to a buyer who's an idiot? By the way, I mentioned to him the fact that he has a history of leaving negative feedback for fake silver. He just emailed me and said it was up to me whether the buyer has a positive or negative experience. He said the customer is always right. Sounds like veiled feedback extortion to me. Time to report him.
annadryl
·4 months agoEbay doesn't think your selling fake silver, you just got a buyer that disagreed for whatever reason. As a seller this is bound to happen sometime.
BTW it doesn't help a seller calling anyone an idiot. Be the professional here.
marnotom!
·4 months agoNot every sale you have is going to be a profitable one. It's the big picture that counts. Besides, that twelve bucks can be written off as a business expense, so there's that, at least.
gurlcat
·4 months ago@freebirdtim Well yeah, if you had charged $12 shipping for a 3-inch salt spoon. But you didn't. It was $5 shipping.
And eBay doesn't "think" anything. You have gotten 1 automatic strike for an INAD return, on your Service Metrics, where you are compared to your "peers" (other people selling flatware, or whichever category tier that spoon falls under). I'm guessing only 1 strike puts you well below the average, so don't worry about this threatening your account or anything.
And his reply to you doesn't sound like feedback extortion AT ALL. You're the one who wrote to him about feedback! 🤣
toomuchstuffagain35
·4 months agoWith the customer is always right statement sounds like he's one of those that thinks because he's the buyer he can claim whatever he likes.
Just get him to return it and do NOT refund before you get the return.
twk
·4 months agoTell him to send it back for a full refund, period. You are dealing with a scrapper - they look for pieces below spot prices and then put pressure on the seller to give em a better deal. He is putting pressure on you.
Once you get it back BLOCK THEM ASAP.
I just had a scrapper offer me $60 for a sterling serving spoon over 2 oz!!!! And I wasnt even asking for offers on that piece.
twk
·4 months agoOh, definitely report him for item extortion and mention in your report that it is marked Gorham AND sterling.
ryry-jj
·4 months agoThere is nothing us sellers can do in this situation bu process the return and hope we get the exact same item back that we sent.
kandf_vintage_finds
·4 months agoSorry this happened to you
If this happened to me I would:
Stop all correspondence with the buyer
Accept the return
Upon getting the item back refund if in same condition
Block buyer
Relist or sell similar
Brace myself for that red donut
Move on.....
christworks
·4 months ago@freebirdtim You knew eBay's policy before you started selling. If you didn't know eBay's policy, then it is your own fault. You really get no right to rant. There are plenty of id***s in our world, some are buyers and some our sellers. I didn't look at your listing or your account, but you may be eliglble to deduct up to 50% of the refund should the buyer return the spoon to you in a different condition, including not wrapping it back up how you had it.
Make sure you block that buyer once you refund them.
mtgraves7984
·4 months agoUnfortunately, this seller can't reduce the refund. With that being said, @freebirdtim, as a TRS, you'd have the ability to reduce the refund if you offered (as little as) 30-Day Returns. I hate to see a TRS miss out on the last seller protection left... you might want to revisit your Return policy. Upward and onward and all...
ETA: The 'deduction' would help if you got (in return) an item that has been damaged/destroyed/devalued, etc.
kensgiftshop
·4 months agoWhen a buyer files an INAD, you have two options and both end with giving a refund.
Ebay isn't really interested in the sellers side.
tools*
·4 months agoJust tell him that he can return it for a full refund.
chapeau-noir
·4 months ago@freebirdtim I'm sorry you got this PITA buyer, but the other side of it is that eBay doesn't have the item in question actually in their hands, so it becomes a he said/she said situation, so they just don't adjudicate - if they had to weigh in on every case where this comes up, it would be an administrative mess. And yes, they're buyer centric so we just have to deal with it.
Hopefully you'll get the spoon back safely and sell it to someone who knows what they're looking at.