Buyer did not get item, well over 30 days since sale was made wants refund
Way back in July I sold an item and shipped with tracking. Apparently, it was lost at his local post office which according to google reviews is completely incompetent. In good faith I tried open a missing item case with USPS, which obviously failed. It has been 40 days since the expected arrival. Now, I get a notification requesting I refund the item. Now here's my issue, it has been very long since this sale was made, and the limit is 30 days to request a refund and yet ebay is still "withholding funds" despite me already being cashed out a month ago. I should not have to refund this old sale, it is not my fault the post office is incompetent nor is it my fault the buyer is past the 30 day limit. How do I keep my money?
42 comments
marnotom!
·2 years agoIn a nutshell, eBay’s Money Back Guarantee expiring thirty days after the last estimated date of delivery doesn’t mean you have only up to thirty days after the last estimated date of delivery to do the right thing by your buyer. Ethics have no expiry date.
fab_finds4u
·2 years ago@khetzel Actually eBay does allow a case to be opened after 30 days for the purpose of communication only, so the buyer and seller can work it out but if they can't neither one will be able to escalate or ask eBay to step in. If they do the case will automatically close with no refund, no eBay resolution. I don't believe eBay holds the payment in that case.
But there are times when eBay allows the case to be opened past 30 days that won't close when it's escalated. And there are types of cases that are opened where eBay is holding funds until they decide if the buyer gets their money back or the seller gets to keep it.
Because eBay is holding the payment I suspect eBay has extended the buyer's ability to get a refund.
@d.mang if it's been 3 days try escalating the case. One or two things will happen. You won't be able to escalate it and it will close and release the hold on the payment, or eBay will see there's no delivery scan and the buyer gets his money back (and you get a defect because eBay resolved it.
d.mang
OP2 years agothanks, thats very helpful. I suppose I'll just wait it out and see what ebay decides. It would be pretty grimy if they ignore their own policy and side against me though. I tried offering a partial refund but the buyer wasnt having it.
pjcdn2005
·2 years agoThis is just speculation but I think ebay is holding the money because that is what they do when a claim is opened regardless of the timeline.
Would ebay really give a defect if the case was escalated and the buyer won? I don't recall reading about a seller getting a defect after the 30 days has passed.
Even if the seller is found totally blameless in ebay's eyes. I do think that the seller might want to l decide to refund since the buyer obviously does not have the item.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoI agree. As a seller, my own integrity is more important to me and my reputation than the few dollars I might lose by making a buyer whole. Not making the buyer whole when it's clear that a seller's choice of the manner of shipment failed doesn't speak highly of a seller's ethics.
khetzel
·2 years agoI have ordered from overseas where the estimated delivery date was 2 full months. In practice, in my experience it will arrive in 2-4 weeks if it is coming at all.
On the rare occasion of a lost package the buyer still has to wait at least 2 months to open an INR case. I've never heard of a deadline for the buyer to report a package that never arrived, unless it would be 6 months from the transaction when his credit card protection runs out.
marnotom!
·2 years agoNot only do buyers have several months from the date of purchase to file a chargeback with their credit card issuer for an online purchase like this, but they also have 180 days from the date of purchase to make an "item not received" claim with PayPal, which is easier to do and less time consuming.
Insurance is much more for the seller's protection than it is the buyer's. The seller, after all, is on record as the one who purchased the insurance and the buyer has all the protection they need through eBay and their payment processors. I'd say the only thing you did wrong here is that you didn't insure the item even though you want to keep the money from the sale.
fab_finds4u
·2 years agoSometimes when there's fires, floods, or hurricanes eBay allows sellers more time to deliver packages, thus the buyer is given more time to open a case.
If eBay is withholding your funds you should go ahead and refund and avoid a defect that way. If you don't refund and eBay has to force a refund you will get a defect for having a case unresolved by the seller.
buyselljack2016
·2 years agoDon't know why the timeframe of this is what it is (over30 days), but you can wait for a CC chargeback and deny that as well. What may result is the loss of the item, the buyer payment, eBay fees, and will also cost an additional $20
As sellers, as is often stated, we choose the carrier service, and by eBay policy we are responsible from start to finish.
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoWell, you can do the professional thing, or you can do what you want. So just do what you want. 🙄 But if you ask a bunch of professionals, you're going to get the answers we just gave you.
d.mang
OP2 years agoWell I'd just like to do what is fair, and fairness to me is the most professional thing. I did my part, USPS screwed up, and the buyer did not request in a timely enough manner. Therefore there is no reason I should be the out of luck party as per the official policy seems to be on my side. As for the "but what if you were the buyer?" argument, I actually buy more than I sell, when an item is a week or two late I open the case within the generous time frame.
spark-chaser1
·2 years agoI have personally waited for overdue items right up to day 29 just to give the seller the benefit of the doubt even though i don’t have to.
As a buyer I would also be upset to have that seller tell me that they are cutting me loose after I waited for their contracted carrier to deliver my items and then deny me a refund when they fail to do so,
it holds true for any seller on any platform… if it wasn’t delivered, it wasn’t delivered. The problem is not mine to fix or pay for. It is the Sellers’s.
this is the overwhelming majority of what posters are telling you. I know It’s not what you want to hear, Sorry ‘ bout that.
slati_2013
·2 years ago"How do I keep my money?"
It is not your money. You can't keep it. Refund the buyer.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years ago@d.mang
What is the tracking number? I'd be really interested in seeing what USPS shows.
rippets
·2 years agoAssume for a moment that YOU are the buyer, not the seller. And back in July, you purchased an item but did not receive it. Several weeks have gone by and still nothing. You, of course, want either the item or your money back. Would YOU sit by, say "oh, well", and just accept the fact that nothing is done? Of course not. You would pursue it, as this buyer has done.
As a side note, even if the time period of 30 days on eBay has passed, if a buyer pays for something with a credit card, he has, I believe, six months to file a claim with his credit card company and if you cannot prove delivery, you will have to refund him. (A seller is responsible for the item up to the point of delivery as confirmed by tracking.)
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoAs other stated if you had tracking simply respond to the case with the tracking information showing it as being delivered. If not since it is beyond the 30 days up to you as to whether you refund or not but I generally do in the cases where the package is lost by USPS and then turn around and file a insurance claim with USPS. Following is the timeline for filing a USPS claim.
d.mang
OP2 years agoThanks for the good answer (the only good answer in this thread so far). The package however is not eligible for insurance according to usps. The buyer himself selected economy shipping. The fact is he had 30 days to get a refund and didn’t do it in time. So why is eBay threatening me? I’m the only one in this scenario who did nothing wrong
spark-chaser1
·2 years agoI agree that db gave you good advice . But nothing I read in any of the other responders to your post warranted your dismissal of their advice. You only seem to want to hear what you choose to.
d.mang
OP2 years agosorry but if you carefully reread my post you'll see why their answers are not appreciated.
spark-chaser1
·2 years agoYou are assuming I didn’t read your post carefully. I can assure you I did. I don’t randomly jump in to make baseless and random comments. Granted, I feel for you and understand your frustration, however, Iwith all due respect.â€, I stand by my comment.
The posters that you consider to be incorrect are long-time sellers and are respected members who tell it like it is. They have all been in your shoes and have learned over time.
spreadlovelikefire
·2 years agoEven though you did nothing wrong, the seller is always responsible for getting the package delivered to the customer. Ebay, nor the buyer, care what usps does or any other delivery company. All's they care about is the package arriving and showing delivered. Since this one does not, you are on the hook. It is not the buyers responsibility to "choose" the service you ship with. You can choose to ship with a service that offers insurance for lost items or you can ship it cheaper without it. If you choose to use a service that covers lost items then you could file a claim with usps and get your money back. I currently have 2 claims filed with them for lost packages. It being 30 days out doesn't really matter much since it never showed delivered. If it would be beyond the time frame of being able to file a claim with usps then that would be a different story. But you are saying that you used a service that didn't have insurance, so it's really a mute point.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoThanks for the good answer (the only good answer in this thread so far). The package however is not eligible for insurance according to usps. The buyer himself selected economy shipping. The fact is he had 30 days to get a refund and didn’t do it in time. So why is eBay threatening me? I’m the only one in this scenario who did nothing wrong.
Quite welcome. I took a look at a couple of your July sales but I am not exactly sure which item was lost or what day it was shipped. You have USPS Economy shipping specified on most of those listings which is a generic term that usually translates to first class, now ground advantage.
It may be an unfortunate timing on the sale and shipment. While first class did not come with insurance when USPS introduced and transitioned to ground advantage on 9 July that service now comes with $100 insurance. Prior to ground advantage I used to ship a number of things priority mail or priority mail cubic simply because of the added insurance rather than adding insurance to the first class package.
Your not the only one in this situation and I have dealt with USPS on several lost package claims after I had refunded the buyer. I still get update notifications from USPS on a lost package claim from June that they have already reimbursed me for but are still looking for. On average I have one lost package claim a year. ☹ï¸
Realize the buyer should have taken action before the 30 day lapse on submitting a claim and eBay should, based on their own policy, reject the claim but buyer would probably just open a chargeback with their CC company. Generally if the seller wins the eBay claim and buyer opens a chargeback of the same type with their CC company eBay will cover the seller.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293
d.mang
OP2 years agoThanks that's very useful info. We will see how ebay decides. I don't even remember who chose the shipping service, according to ebay it says "Buyer selected shipping service", I dont recall ever choosing a service for that order myself but honestly I was not aware the buyer could pick at all. I think it makes my case even stronger if the buyer chose uninsured economy shipping explicitly and I didn't get a say.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoThanks that's very useful info. We will see how ebay decides. I don't even remember who chose the shipping service, according to ebay it says "Buyer selected shipping service", I dont recall ever choosing a service for that order myself but honestly I was not aware the buyer could pick at all. I think it makes my case even stronger if the buyer chose uninsured economy shipping explicitly and I didn't get a say.
Buyers can only choose a shipping option if the seller offers different services. Since ground advantage has come along that is my default on a lot of my listings but I also tend to offer the buyer priority mail and sometimes UPS ground if the wish to choose that service. Since I am on the east coast sometimes one method is cheaper that the other depending on the buyers location or if they are in a hurry to get the item. Example from one of my listings. Ground advantage is the default but the buyer can select UPS ground or USPS priority mail. In your case the buyer didn't actually "select" the shipping service it was the default and the only option you had.
inhawaii
·2 years agoI can only tell you what I would do.
Apologize and refund the buyer immediately.
If it was a low-priced item, forget about it and go on with life.
If it was a high-priced item that was insured, pursue the matter with the USPS.
If it was a high-priced item that was NOT insured, forget about it and go on with life.
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoIf the package was never delivered (i.e., still in the system), I would refund the buyer and then handle a lost mail piece claim with USPS.
yoonix1
·2 years agoIt's not your fault but it's a kind of your responsibility to take care of customer as it's not a customer's fault either.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years ago@d.mang
You say you shipped with tracking.
Does tracking show delivery? If so, you aren't obligated to do anything.
If tracking doesn't show delivery, my opinion is that you should refund the buyer. Although you aren't obligated since the MBG period has expired, it would be the right thing to do since you can't prove delivery.
d.mang
OP2 years agoNo, it does not show delivery. No offense but that should be obvious since the item was lost at the post office which I found out based on tracking update. It has been well over 30 days since estimated arrival
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoI'm not offended but all you'd said was that there was tracking. You didn't say whether there was an acceptance scan or movement. An item showing as "a shipping label has been created" doesn't show any movement and certainly won't show delivery. However an item shown as "accepted" at a post office and (possibly) a few scans along the way DOES put the item into postal possession.
No offense to you but you weren't clear in your post.
Thus my questions. And you still haven't answered. My recommendation depends on what happened with tracking.
Okay, you state there's tracking.
Is there an acceptance scan?
Is there any movement through the postal system?
As I said previously, without a "delivered" scan, my opinion is that you should refund the buyer even though the buyer should have opened the claim earlier than "well over 30 days." Had he done that, you would have lost the case.
ETA: I am well aware that @d.mang doesn't owe the buyer a refund (per ebay policy) but morally, I believe it should be done. JMHO.
d.mang
OP2 years agoWell yeah there was an acceptance scan, thats how it made it to the mentioned incompetent post office (with 1/5 stars and a record for stealing mail). And of course that means it was going through the usps system. it made it to HIS local post office and they failed to put it out for delivery. they likely stole it imo. I will offer the buyer some compensation but will try not to refund the entire value. it's been so long and it's the fault of that post office not me. I suppose my main reason for asking this Q is WHY was the buyer even allowed to open a case against me when he is past his 30 day window?
khetzel
·2 years agoBecause it is the seller's responsibility to deliver the package to the buyer. If buyer doesn't have the item and you don't have a delivery scan, you haven't completed the sale.
Maybe the buyer was giving the post office (the delivery service YOU offered) extra time to find and deliver the package. You can't just say "sorry you have us too much time, you're out of luck."
Imagine a scenario where a dishonest seller was just able to string along a buyer for 30 days saying " just a few more days, don't open a case yet ". And then finally saying "too bad, you shouldn't have waited.". Buyers would not go for that.
d.mang
OP2 years agoSo are you just speculating stuff or is this actually factual. because ebay's own policy seems to indicate that what you said is wrong.
khetzel
·2 years agoYou asked "why" was the buyer able to open a case. And I told you why. If you don't like it feel free to fight it.
If you don't have a delivery scan you will lose an INR claim.
bill.purvis2012
·2 years agoThe seller is responsible for getting the item to the buyer. If tracking doesn't show delivery, you must refund in full. Don't wait until Ebay does it for you, because it will cost you more and hurt your stats. You can take it up with the USPS and see if they will trace it or pay. But, YOU are responsible to the buyer.
anjofak
·2 years agoI would and have just refunded and add a have a happy something day if it shows up!
robbie31415
·2 years ago30 days counter starts when delivered, or estimated arrival date. Not when sale occurs.
If you had tracking then you'd be covered if it states delivered.
If you don't have delivered tracking then you owe your buyer a refund.
caldreamer
·2 years agoYou are NOT responsible for stolen packages. If you have tracking# proving item reached correct destination you will win the case. Otherwise, you will be forced to refund (purchase price + shipping).
You are supposed to fill a "lost package" claim with USPS if you paid to insure package or shipped by PRIORITY MAIL (which includes free insurance).
d.mang
OP2 years agoIt does not show delivered, since as I mentioned it was lost. My point is the buyer is outside of ebay's 30 day policy window, so I'm unsure why the buyer was even allowed to make a case against me. And how could ebay justify forcing a refund out of me when according to their policy I should be safe.