Buyer claims the package was empty - lost a case
I sold an SSD drive, the drive was well-packed and promptly shipped by DPD.
Buyer claims that package was empty. Shows photos of empty envelope and packing material.
I asked for an opening video and weight. He claims to have one, but this is the last time I heard from him.
Remind him in the case to provide video and weight.
Nothing.
I ask eBay to intervene, they assure me that if the buyer does not provide evidence my money will be released.
No communication from the buyer.
Case closed, buyer refunded.
Appealed the case, provided weight of the package from shipping company, did weighting of the packing materials. The SSD was clearly in there.
No change from eBay.
Have been on eBay since 2008, 100% (491), no negative. Buyer 2022, 100% (7), no negative.
What can do? This sounds to me like fraud and criminal conspiracy to cover it up from eBay.
gamersbaystore
·2 years agoebay doesn't care, they openly permit fraud on their platform more than ever today. The scamming buyers know they can just open a case and lie to get a refund. ebay will kick them out after they defraud a dozen sellers, then they just come right back and open a new account and rinse and repeat their nefarious deeds.
Being you're in the Czech Republic, I don't know what defense you have. Here in the U.S., we just file mail fraud reports with the U.S. postal service and they prosecute and more often than not we get our money back. If the item was shipped to the U.S. thru the postal service, I would file a mail fraud claim with USPS.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoYou didn't provide a lot of detail and I cannot see the item you sold. You are in the Czech Republic and I am not that familiar with your postal service or laws. What was the value of this item? Was it a domestic sale or international? If it was international did you ship direct or did it go through a freight forwarder?
When you shipped the item did you drop it with your postal service? Did they scan the item? Did they weight the item? Do you have a printed receipt that shows the weight of the item when you shipped it?
In the US our postal service will sometimes get involved if there is the appearance of mail fraud/theft. US sellers also have the option of reporting friendly fraud to law enforcement although I am not sure how much good that does unless there is a pattern of repeated offenses by a buyer.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoWhy would you ship something like that in an envelope?
Buyer doesn't have to prove anything, they just have to say the package was empty.
An opening video would be as much proof as you taking a video of you packaging the item.
isaiah53-57
·2 years agoSorry this happened to you - This is the main reason we stopped listing here - Lots of ways to sell your items out there now other than here - We do well not using this site to sell on - If they ever institute some decent seller protections, we would consider selling here again - Though my guess is, thats far enough out where Promoted Listings will have a strangle hold on sellers and by then it will be far to costly to sell here - so since we dont NEED to sell here, my guess is we'll never sell here again... This place is like walking through a minefield - Do yourself a favor and check out your options...
sunnyhoneybeesea
·1 year agoSounds like I should put my time back into building a website to sell my goods instead. I have a buyer right now claiming package arrived empty. Its gets odd because he says package was in tact, well sealed (we apply additional tape in a cross including additional tape on the opening so packages cannot be tampered with without leaving evidence of such. Well he says it was all good but empty. Asked for him to send an image of the packaging to which he says "the courier took it". Anyone who has dealth with couriers knows they do not stand around for you to open a package and then take it with them. I know he is lying and know eBay will force me to refund him. I will be reporting him to ActionFraud and have opened a claim with the courier as the only feasible explanation is the courier stole it/repackaged (unlikely) or he stole it. I think we both know which one is more likely in this example.
I will start building a website and list side by side. Maybe only selling the very cheapest stuff on eBay if it works.
deltilogical
·2 years agoEbay treats sellers as an inconvenience, a hindrance to getting the fees.
They use us for psycholoigical experimentation.
They tell us to send items and then hold back our funds.
They allow buyers who fail to pay to repeatedly to retain their status.
They pretty much have figured out how to do away with us, other than doing away with us.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoBuyer claims that package was empty.
Since eBay introduced the Money Back Guarantee in 2008, pretty much any buyer an steal any item from any seller by filing a fraudulent dispute.
I asked for an opening video and weight
The eBay Money Back Guarantee does not require buyers to provide 'evidence' to sellers, because eBay has no idea whose evidence is truthful and whose is misleading or photoshopped.
I ask eBay to intervene
When you ask eBay to intervene, you agreed to abide by whatever decision eBay arrived at.
they assure me that if the buyer does not provide evidence my money will be released.
There is nothing in the published eBay Money Back Guarantee policy - or the seller protection policy - says a seller will win a case if a buyer fails to provide the seller with "evidence". If eBay told you that, they lied.
Appealed the case, provided weight of the package from shipping company, did weighting of the packing materials. The SSD was clearly in there.
That proves nothing. All it does is suggest that something was in there.
This sounds to me like fraud and criminal conspiracy to cover it up from eBay.
If the buyer received the SSD and lied, then it is definitely fraud by your buyer.
But eBay was not there to observe what you shipped or what the buyer received. If eBay used package weights and and the seller's word to decide cases, then eBay would be overrun with unscrupulous sellers offering once ounce of gold and shipping one ounce of lead instead.
baydealz
·2 years agoCreepy, criminal organization.
caldreamer
·2 years agoEBAY does NOT require customers to prove their claims. Even if customer returned "empty box" to you EBAY would force you to give a full refund (purchase price + shipping BOTH ways). EBAY will NOT protect if you get scammed. Customers know this and have a free rein to steal.
exander777
OP2 years agoI am fine with that, but that's between them and the buyer, they can refund all scammers if they want to, but I draw the line if they want to steal my money to do that.
baydealz
·2 years agoI don't think you've drawn the line yet since you have five listings. Man up.
baydealz
·2 years agoImpressive caldreamer, I was just dismissing this thread as typical. Your last sentence should be the biggest takeaway. If typical posts are simply by sellers who haven't been scammed yet, they should print and highlight your last sentence - it's just a matter of time. Since both our posts will be deleted, if you or anyone reads this, help yourselves and ebay by contacting your congressmen to fix/force these laws (they started it with 'credit protection') which is needed, but now abused with no recourse.
blijeolifantje72
·2 years ago-You sttate -EBAY does NOT require customers to prove their claims. Even if customer returned "empty box" to you EBAY would force you to give a full refund (purchase price + shipping BOTH ways). EBAY will NOT protect if you get scammed. Customers know this and have a free rein to steal.
I have run across this and Ebay did protect me. Ebay sends those Buyers prepaid shipping label and when it arrives post office then it is weigh and charged then not before. I won the case because Ebay can see the empty envelope weight. I did hear that this is a common scam but I think that is why ebay allows Buers to get a prepaid label to print so it is weigh. I also saw the Buyer get refunded but not sure if that was retract because Ebay did cover me for it because the fraud was clear.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years ago-You sttate -EBAY does NOT require customers to prove their claims. Even if customer returned "empty box" to you EBAY would force you to give a full refund (purchase price + shipping BOTH ways). EBAY will NOT protect if you get scammed. Customers know this and have a free rein to steal.
I have run across this and Ebay did protect me. Ebay sends those Buyers prepaid shipping label and when it arrives post office then it is weigh and charged then not before. I won the case because Ebay can see the empty envelope weight. I did hear that this is a common scam but I think that is why ebay allows Buers to get a prepaid label to print so it is weigh. I also saw the Buyer get refunded but not sure if that was retract because Ebay did cover me for it because the fraud was clear.
Consider yourself lucky. EBay probably did a courtesy refund to the buyer but it's not the norm.
ckimodog
·2 years ago@exander777
There is no fraud or conspiracy via eBay. You don't accept returns and makes you a target for unsavory and virtual thieves. Sorry.
exander777
OP2 years agoI accept returns. But according to buyer, there is no item to return. Have you read my post at all?
The package was obviously tracked and delivered. The delivery of the package wasn't questioned by anybody.
ckimodog
·2 years ago@exander777
Again, this has nothing to do with eBay or any conspiracy. This is the way it is, the customer is the priority. Perhaps you should rethink selling here on eBay as it is not for everyone.
Happy Selling
adamcartwright
·2 years ago@ckimodog I feel like blaming the victim is a way to shift blame away from the perpetrator. I would say the category of item sold -- electronic equipment -- makes Seller a target more than any other factor. This scam of getting something for free has been pulled on sellers regardless of return policy.
@exander777 Many sellers here do great not accepting returns. I know of full-time sellers who earn their living here without "accepting returns" because buyers know there is a MBG if the item is not as described. I'm really sorry it happened to you.
fashunu4eeuh
·2 years ago@exander777 wrote:
“I ask eBay to intervene, they assure me that if the buyer does not provide evidence my money will be released...â€
Calling the overseas customer service can be useless, as this above statement was completely incorrect. They are known to tell a seller what they want to hear in order to placate and shorten the call.
eBay does not accept video evidence to determine any matter. Buyers do not have to provide proof of their veracity. eBay is a buyer-centric platform, where the customer’s interests are protected, first and foremost, and sometimes at the seller’s expense.
Below is the link to eBay’s Money Back Guarantee policy. After review, you will see in black and white what to expect when a case is opened. Expect the buyer to prevail virtually every time, and it helps to have some guidance from the forum community before appealing the case, to steer you to a greater chance at overturning eBay’s decision.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210
What to do now: Keep in mind that it is not eBay who defrauded you—it was ostensively the buyer. eBay has no idea who is telling the truth, and therefore sides with the buyer who they value, as i said, first and foremost.
But if you believe you have strong evidence, depending on logistics, location and costs, Small Claims court is available to fight the outcome and attempt to hold the buyer accountable. I would have also recommended to bring the matter to the attention of the authorities as well, but ideally to do so before appealing to eBay.
You can report the buyer to the authorities in both your and their jurisdictions. (If the buyer resides outside the US, you may be out of luck in gaining police interest.) There is also www.ic3.gov to make an online report to the FBI’s Internet Crime Complaint division. Last, if the buyer used any mail carrier or shipping company to defraud you, contact the US Postal Inspectors and make a report. It can also be done online.
Be sure to make copies of your reports snd get case numbers to use in case you decide to take the matter to the legal system.
Sorry this happened to you. Wish you much smoother travels ahead.
exander777
OP2 years agoeBay Money-Back Guarantee is between eBay and the buyer. Completely unrelated to me. They are free to compensate buyers as they wish from their own money.
I will look into reporting, bot me and buyer are in EU.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoeBay Money-Back Guarantee is between eBay and the buyer. Completely unrelated to me. They are free to compensate buyers as they wish from their own money.
According to the user agreement that you acknowledged when you started using this site, eBay is also free reimburse buyers as they wish from your money.
brightlightbookseller
·2 years agoLose this attitude if you wish to continue selling here. You agreed to the terms of selling on eBay when you signed up, including the terms of the Money Back Guarantee. As the seller, you have the primary responsibility for nearly any problem. Not eBay, who merely facilitated the transaction. You.
Learn that, or your selling days here will end eventually whether you want them to or not.
fashunu4eeuh
·2 years ago@exander777 You are mistaken—every seller, by virtue of listing an item, has given his/her tacit agreement to abide by all the policies as outlined in the UA and detailed Help pages containing all policy info. Sellers are bound by the terms of the MBG.
You used the eBay venue to sell your item and now “must dance with who brung you,†as the saying goes.
I am here to try to assist fellow sellers as best i can, as are other posters. It gains you no moral authority (or any advantage) to argue or attempt put-downs with us, your peers. You used the services of the platform before a having a complete study of the consequences of doing so. Without understanding buyer protections, one is not prepared to take on the obligations of selling here successfully.
baydealz
·2 years agoTHANK YOU! The best response I've seen of all the ebay bots in here. I've been tracking down a fraudulent chargeback dispute for months (buyer received, used and left positive feedback prior to submitting cc chargeback, which ebay complied with). I'm already contact congressional rep, city police and will add your FBI link. I highly agree with the 'vitually everytime' siding with buyers, I've been saying 100% of the time for years. ebay created this death spiral.
exander777
OP2 years agoThank you for the response. I think the majority of this people's comments are just crazy.
This is just fraud. No matter what conditions and MBG. Fraud is fraud.
I will be contacting EU agencies, maybe EU needs to look into this and put some huge fines on eBay.