Buyer claims the nintendo switch he/she recieved is too harzardous to return
Hi,
I have recently sold a nintendo switch and the buyer asks for a return after receiving it. He/she posted photos of the box has some squeeze at the corner. I provided the return label yet the buyer asks ebay to step in citing the switch is too harzardous to return as the package is "damaged". And ebay sided with the buyer saying that they have reviewed the proof submitted by the buyer to show the switch cannot be returned and as results issued the buyer full refund from my funds of course.
While I cannot see the evidence the buyer provided, the picture he/she sent does not show any damage of the switch console itself. And as I check USPS and UPS requirements, the lithium batteries can be shipped via ground service even if the consumer electronic is damaged (most likely in this case, it is not).
Just want to give you a data point on a "new" buyer claim for not returning your item and getting full refund.
I will try to contact UPS for an insurance claim. I also opened the appeal but not sure how that will go. The item is in buyer's hand and he/she can say whatever he/she wants. I really just want the item back, even if it is broken, I want the shell back. The buyer can remove the console and ship the joycon and everything else back to me. So that I will be sure it is not a fraud and I am happy to refund for any non-fraud claim. Just do not want fraud win. Just some thoughts. Merry Christmas!
ahpro84
·2 years agoWas it the buyer who informed you about eBay siding with them, or did you receive an official message from eBay? Something seems off about this situation it's possible someone is attempting to acquire items without paying for them.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoEach time there is a dispute, I will always receive notice from ebay that ebay issued the refund on my behalf. And then I have to start the tedious and tiring appealing and argument process. Seller has to do all these to get chance to claim our fairness however nothing for the scammers to lose. That is why I think honest sellers deserve more care as it hurts the feeling a LOT when you receive an empty monitor box for a supposedly returned monitor and read something like the buyer is right in this case.
gurlcat
·2 years agoYou really are a seller after my own heart. To me it makes perfect sense to be the kind of seller who does their very best to do a good job AND who takes it hard when people pull scams. For one thing like I said I can't afford losses, but it's much more than that. If I can't find some cash I could have sworn was in my wallet or pocket, first I'll jog my memory to recall if I spent it and forgot, then physically look at all the places I might have dropped it (I actually had to drive a couple times, and DID find my bills on the ground!). But if neither of those things work, I just accept that I lost it.
Same goes for if I do something like accidentally overdraw my checking account and get charged a big fee. But I'll tell you what, I definitely can't rest til I figure out HOW that happened, line-by-line in my account history. And when I figured out that my bank was SCAMMING me by rearranging the order of my debits to maximize the number of overdrafts, I contacted a law firm, with printouts showing before-and-after transaction rearrangements. A couple years later I got a $5000 check from that firm, for providing key evidence in the class action suit against that bank.
And boy did that money come at the right time. But it was just as gratifying knowing that by paying attention and digging in, refusing to accept the unacceptable, I made a real difference, I helped stop a powerful entity from screwing over thousands of little people (the kind of people little enough to reach $0.00 in their accounts -how evil is that?!).
It's no different with eBay. Well in this case the powerful entity isn't the one doing the screwing-over, but they often let others do it. Then the only thing standing between the scammer and the seller IS the seller. If we don't advocate for our own selves to the fullest extent, the scammers just get more emboldened and numerous.
What you did with this scam quite possibly made a bigger difference that you may not even know about. Thanks for doing it, and thanks for sharing it here.
One last thing -thanks also for affirming what you saw with the Facebook response. Yes, besides being English-fluent Americans who actually understand what you're asserting and asking, they also have more ACCESS to information behind the scenes, like how this one was able to see that leadership had gotten involved, and that you could probably expect a good outcome. I have even given one of these reps permission to log into my account as 'me' so she could see firsthand a problem I was having with my listings, and fix it. They really do care, and even if they didn't, they know their words are in WRITING so you would be able to show that as proof of what you were told, if ever needed.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoHi ebayers, a follow up on this issue. The sad story comes with a good ending.
Here is what I did after getting notice that my appeal is denied and being told that "the original decision is correct":
1. I reply the notice for my appeal is denied with screenshot of my conversation with the buyer and I decide to only focus on not enough evidence on claim that the switch is damaged (I think whether or not we can ship damaged console is only a topic if indeed the console is damaged): Basically, I said the pictures provided by the buyer only show damaged box but not the game console inside the box. They replied that they have "CAREFULLY" reviewed the case and "FOUND OUT" the item is identified by the postal service as being a hazard to ship again and recommend me filling a claim with UPS. They say "I am confident that the action taken is to your satisfication".
2. After my call mentioned in my last post: the representative is trying her best to help and add all the notes to my case and promised to submit an appeal to the appeal without guarantee any outcome though. I received a new email from ebay with a different case number after the call and that case results in a full refund for me.
3. The same day before receiving the email in Item 2, I also got reply from facebook ebay business page: the representative says it looks like my case has leadership involved and should come to a good resolution. (I think this is in line with many suggestions that facebook ebay business page is very helpful).
Conclusion:
For this case, there are two parts: 1. buyer claims the console is damaged: however he/she only shows picture that the package but not the actual console is damaged. And I have reached out many times for more pictures showing the damaged console with serial number on the top with no response (of course). Ebay first sided with the buyer without recognizing the root problem here and ignore the clear fact that no evidence supports buyer's claim. (I even doubt the first batch of reviewers from ebay know what nintendo switch is or not)
2. whether the damaged console can be shipped within USA: first it can. Ebay first sided with the buyer without any evidence (This is my interpretation based on my call with ebay: I ask whether ebay happens to provide an ineligible shipping label here. Ebay says if carrier rejected the label, ebay will work with me for another label) The reality is first batch of ebay reviewers take buyer's words for evidence and ridiculously suggests me filing a claim with UPS: If that specific review ever checked the photo, he/she will know that those pictures supports nothing about the damage claim).
I think to resolve such issue, to contact via facebook as many of you suggested has better chance. Also never easily let it go. I know many people would suggest let it go and move on. I do not really agree. But I do have a suggestion: put less emotion (it is hard) through the process, it is really tiring.
I also filed a fraud case with UPS for this one as I myself cannot verify whether this is indeed a fraud because buyer stops replying with more evidence. I have to seek peace of mind. I think anyone in the chain needs to take their share of burden including ebay as platform, the seller, the carrier. We sellers should not bear all these pressures. Eventually, we work together to keep this community run and we have common goal: delivery what our honest customers want to bring happiness to buyer and fulfilment to ourselves.
If I received the console and it looks like damaged in the transit or if I received the photo showing the console is damaged with the serial number in the photo, I might be more convinced and might be easier to "let it go and move on as many may suggest".
Thank you for all the help. Carry on the great job next year. Happy Holidays!
wenbus6
OP2 years agoOne final comment: it should not have been so hard at the beginning. I really do not want to go over all these each time for such disputes. As mentioned previously, in my last year operation, I experienced around 10 such cases. Some of them are credit card charge back, which ebay handles well, but we still need to collect evidence. Some of them are fraud: return screw drivers for CPU, return empty box for brand new monitor, return nothing for CPU (CPU has higher chance meeting a scammer in my experience). For these fraud, each time, I have to spend a lot of energy, time and emotion to fight for the fairness. All of them end well. Also I reported all these cases to Report – United States Postal Inspection Service (uspis.gov) and Internet Crime Complaint Center(IC3) | Home Page.
But all in all, I really really hope this could have been easier. Hope ebay can put some dedicated reviewers for honest sellers in the platform.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoIt is overnight and I cannot let it go. I called ebay this morning again. What I really what is
1. Evidence showing the actual Nintendo Switch is damaged instead of the box.
2. I ask what type of Shipping label ebay provided to the buyer in case that the shipping label happen to be not eligible for shipping the item back (for example: priority label that is an air service).
The ebay representative on the other end is really trying to help and a follow up request will be submitted in the backend however no guarantee on the outcome.
In our conversation, according to the representative, the buyer opened the case immediately after we sent the return label. I question on the eligibility of the return shipping label: if any issues with the shipping label and what kind of proof the buyer provided. It sounds like no evidence is ever provided: it is said that ebay will reach out to me if the carrier rejected the package and work with me for another possible shipping method. However no evidence other that what the buyer said was provided.
I never have problems handling return. Just this one, I cannot let it go easily. I need convincing evidence on this. It also adds hesitation and uncertainties for my future operation in ebay: what if this happens again?
gurlcat
·2 years agoI totally understand why this one is needling you. I rarely get returns and the ones I do get are usually straightforward -either I can see how I messed up by not packing well enough or showing/describing flaws well enough, or it's a (stated) remorse return that I pre-agreed to cover by having free returns, or a remorse return posing as an INAD even though they don't have to lie with free returns (maybe they just routinely lie to avoid the mere appearance of being the bad guy) -okay those ones bug me sliiiightly because I have to swallow the suggestion that I did something wrong. But in any of those cases, at least I still get the item back to resell! What this "buyer" did to you would infuriate me, honestly I'm infuriated by-proxy just seeing it. And by the way, as "small" as I am, a $400 loss would cause me real harm, so my distress wouldn't just be a matter of principle.
Oh, and as you've suggested, this one buyer succeeding in scamming this way could just be our first glimpse at a new widespread scam trend. And how do scams become trends? -Social media. And who's REALLY into social media? -Twitch users, lol. But yeah, look how many other electronics use lithium batteries!
Have you heard back from eBay For Business (Facebook) yet? -As others have told you, they ARE lot better than the phone and chat reps, but the downside is it can be a waiting game (I'm pretty sure they don't work over the weekends btw). If you haven't gotten a reply yet .... hopefully this isn't the case but .... they might have the whole week off for Christmas. These are American employees after all.
wenbus6
OP2 years ago(Weird my messages are just eaten up. I will repost here:)
I really would like to see some photos with damaged console with exposed lithium battery instead of damaged box to be convinced about this case. Until then, I will believe that this is a scam. I have asked the buyer for those pictures and of course no replies at all.
I purchased the switch last year for ~$379 for resale. I sell it at $399 with free shipping is already at a loss. In this case, the ebay refunded the buyer while still charged me the 7% transaction fee. I lost over $400 and my time on this one order. How many orders do I need to fulfill to make that back?
I guess this is the end of the story. Unfortunately, it is a sad story. I love this forum with people in the same shoes. Thank you guys! I will post more here in the future. For now, I will move on. I have put too much emotions and energy on this. I have a day job to do as well.
Thank you @gurlcat , you made a great point, I will reach out to them mentioning your suggestion.
gurlcat
·2 years agoIn your original post you said you cannot see the evidence the buyer provided to eBay. Are you certain they did provide additional evidence to them, like photos of the item itself damaged or something? I zoomed in on the photos you shared here, and only the top-right one has even the slightest deformation on the very corner, which couldn't possibly have harmed the item inside, NO WAY. So if they DID show eBay something more convincing, and it's eBay giving you the "helpful" suggestion to file a UPS claim -eBay should pony up the appalling evidence of carrier safety risk they saw, to yank your money and give it to this "concerned citizen."
Tell that to the Facebook rep when you chat with them! I'm not kidding, this guy is a scammer but eBay enabled him while also withholding what you need to win an insurance claim. That's just wrong.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoA follow up about ebay's final decision: ebay sided with the buyer.
Below is ebay's reply:
"
I reviewed your account further. The item was too hazardous to require the buyer to return nad the buyer was able to provide a documentation of the item being eligible for return. Doing so could have caused damage or harm to the shipping carrier.
Since the item was damaged in transit, I suggest that you open a damaged item claim with UPS. As they are responsible for shipping your item, they should be able to open a case for you. Note that, if the item was lost or damaged in post, the postal carrier may compensate for the loss as long as you have proof of postage. You can use the photos that the buyer uploaded as proof of damage.
I hope this information could be of help to you. Thank you for being a valuable part of the eBay community. I wish you success with your future transactions on eBay."
It is really absurd as the pictures provided the buyer can prove nothing even in my eye, I do not think UPS will do anything on this. I have filed a fraud claim with UPS.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoAnd you can safely bet that now that buyer has succeeded with the claim it can't be returned this time, they'll be trying it again.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoWhen I say "feel free to contact ebay": I was so confident that I will get things sort out: it is just another return and I can get it back and list again. Yet I was totally wrong. lol: Ebay said they reviewed the proof and decided to issue full refund to buyer. And I cannot even contact customer service to explain after I file the appealing, which is awaiting decision (I will follow up after getting results).
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoHopefully if you can contact the reps on FB with proof that a carrier WILL accept the return, they'll make them return it. OR reimburse you as ebay was at fault telling the buyer they didn't have to.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoI do not know how to contact reps on FB: I tried message and no replies yet. Any suggestions?
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoIt can take them a little while to respond. I assume they have different reps in charge of certain areas.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoThis is as bad as the 'buyers' who claim they're not allowed to return an item THEY deem counterfeit in the mail.
ebay needs to stop pretending they're authorities on things they know zip all about.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoYet another "new" way to claim your item free. I never met such claims and hope will never.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoAnd this is my list: BRAND NEW Nintendo Switch OLED Pokemon Scarlet and Violet Edition (Fast Ship!) | eBay
You can see from my photo that the item the buyer received is exactly what I used for the display picture if you check the corner carefully.
cstpos
·2 years ago@wenbus6 I would get the UPS and USPS regulations regarding what can and can't be shipped. it is not up to the buyer to determine that. The ebay customer service reps will agree with just about anything a person tells them. They need the positive feedback and usually have no authority to actually fix most situations. If you can message the buyer with proof that they a carrier will not refuse to ship the item, let them know they need to know send the item back if the carrier allows it.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoI send those information in my message to ebay for appealing.
Shipping Restrictions & HAZMAT - What Can You Send in the Mail? | USPS
"If you're mailing pre-owned, damaged, or defective electronic devices containing or packaged with lithium batteries, you must send them via ground transportation; they are prohibited in air transportation.
These devices must be marked on the outer packaging with the text, "Restricted Electronic Device" and "Surface Transportation Only."
How To Ship Batteries | UPS - United States
buyselljack2016
·2 years agomight it be that the "return service" label provided through eBay was a "PRIORITY" label
wenbus6
OP2 years agoNot sure what label ebay provided. I have no way to confirm that: I used the default ebay label when issuing the return label.
Hope ebay can let me know what the label is for this case.
buyselljack2016
·2 years agoNot familiar with the item.
Size? Weight? How did you ship?
wenbus6
OP2 years agoI shipped via UPS. It is like 3-4 lb package. Size is like 14 x 12 x 5. It is a nintendo switch console, pokemon version.
dolcetreasures
·2 years agoIt’s remarkable the amount of weasels that use cunning and deceit to charm their way into our pockets.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoIndeed....
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoCurious how far away is the buyer? Maybe a personal pickup is in order. 🙂 I have actually done a couple of these with law enforcement accompaniment and never had a problem recovering my item. The look on the buyers face was almost priceless.
BTW you do sell some high target items. I am actually surprised you have not had more issues.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoIt is 8 hours driving away 🙂 And I did think about it though. Indeed, it is not really that I cannot take loss on a sale. The emotion behind this hurts a lot.
For your question on the high price tag items: yes I am a tech fan so I sell electronic gears in my store as my passion goes there. I started serious business in ebay since last October and I have to say the majority of people are good. I read it somewhere, "ebay is a number game". There is always a chance there we meet those bad people. I have about 5% return rate and in last year I met about a dozen of scams: including payment dispute (ebay covers this mostly), return different cheap things for items ordered from me. I do not count the false claim to just getting free return, I think those are bad but not as bad, at least I got my item back. Due to the nature of my store items, any returned item I can only sell with a loss.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoIt is 8 hours driving away And I did think about it though. Indeed, it is not really that I cannot take loss on a sale. The emotion behind this hurts a lot.
For your question on the high price tag items: yes I am a tech fan so I sell electronic gears in my store as my passion goes there. I started serious business in ebay since last October and I have to say the majority of people are good. I read it somewhere, "ebay is a number game". There is always a chance there we meet those bad people. I have about 5% return rate and in last year I met about a dozen of scams: including payment dispute (ebay covers this mostly), return different cheap things for items ordered from me. I do not count the false claim to just getting free return, I think those are bad but not as bad, at least I got my item back. Due to the nature of my store items, any returned item I can only sell with a loss.
For me I would have made the 8 hour drive its not so much the money as it is the principal of the thing. Agree with you that most buyers are good and most sales go off without any problem, of course you don't read about those on this forum that much. Then of course everyone hits the problem buyer at some point and about all a seller can do is mitigate their risk as much as possible. I am not surprised about the high number of scam attempts given what you sell. I did notice you sell internationally and use EIS. The irony of it is the seller protections under EIS are a sellers dream and legions ahead of what the domestic protections are which are not much.
Wish you the best in you selling adventures. You will find this forum an excellent resources for advice and guidance a lot better than what you will get out of most of the eBay customer support reps.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoThank you for the reply! Cannot agree more on the EIS. For qualified sellers, I would really hope ebay could stand in middle for the support. That is tremendous!
It is a tough world and glad to meet you guys with similar believe and attitude towards things.
We run the business and pay the self employment tax and pay the income tax and pay the platform fee and really hope to realize our passion along the way. Really, here is my point, serious sellers in ebay do not have intentions to lie as we are here to build. Ebay should know that and hope most customers out there know this as well.
sumsum70
·2 years agoI've said before - this should be a service offered by a national-size biker gang. I too would drive 8 hours to recover my item if this scenario happened to me. If the biker gang would send someone on my behalf for like $200, that would be money well spent. Or maybe have a base fee of $100 and a menu of add-ons for the extra special scam buyers.
evotrek90
·2 years agoIf you need assistance in missouri, we can do business.
sapphire_studio
·2 years agoGo to the ebay for Business Facebook page and contact them on there. People have a lot of luck with the customer service they offer.
heckofagame
·2 years agoYes, avoid the phone monkeys posing as customer service. They are just a little better than worthless in many cases. Sometimes, not even that good.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoYes, avoid the phone monkeys posing as customer service. They are just a little better than worthless in many cases. Sometimes, not even that good.
In some respects I feel for these individuals who are simply trying to do their jobs for which eBay has inadequately prepared them. Either that or this is what eBay has trained them to do and if that is the case shame on eBay.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoWill give it a try now.
For anyone who needs it, here is the link: Facebook
sextons-sweet-deals
·2 years agothe buyer is a scammer!
rugerskick
·2 years agoMore correctly
The "buyer" was never really a genuine buyer at all.
The person was and is a scammer, masquerading as a buyer.
Scammers are never actual buyers. Scammers are always scammers, they may pretend to be a buyer, but they aren't and never ever were going to be a buyer.
"Problem buyers" are either buyers with problems, or scammers in the scamming phase of trying to steal your item.
I make the distinction because I don't want to inckude genuine good buyers in with scammers pretending to be buyers. Scammers don't deserve to be called buyers, they are just thieves.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoI am constantly amazed at the new schemes scammers come up with to obtain free items.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoFor anyone who is curious about the item, it is a switch listed in my store and if you are very careful, you can see the box has a little squeeze at the corner and that is pretty much what the buyer sent to me saying it is "damaged" and cannot be returned. No carriers would deny shipping of the switch that is in its original box like mine is. I am really really curious on what the proof there is.
PS: Once I take it personal, it really hurts.... Should get used to it but want to seek peace of mind that this thing will not happen in the future.
gone.c-33
·2 years agoJust want to make sure, you did not send the Switch in its retail packaging only?
wenbus6
OP2 years ago 
 
 
 some conversation here. Of course, I cut out the buyer’s username to protect his/her privacy.
heckofagame
·2 years agoDid the buyer tell you that eBay sided with them, or did you receive a message from eBay? Something doesn't seem right with that. I think someone is trying to get free stuff.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoI get the case updates from ebay saying they sided with the buyer and issued the refund. I try to contact ebay representative to see what other "proof" I can submit but it is hard to go around the AI chat bot now. The AI chat bot just says the decision is final and cannot be appealed. This is also weird as my case status says appeal waiting decision.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoI didn't know eBay looks at photos submitted of damage and such. I guess they do.
Even after "provided the return label".
And it's a "new" buyer....these new buyers are becoming smart.
wenbus6
OP2 years agoI think they check the photos. I have positive experience with ebay on resolving the spam type claims. None of those frauds ever 'win'. Some examples: I received different kind of returned items that are different from what I sent: including screw drivers for return of a cpu, an empty monitor box for return of a monitor etc.
This round though, it is different. Ebay says they reviewed the proof the buyer submitted and decide that it is indeed a hazard to ship so the buyer do not need to return it to get full refund. I am really curious about the proof here: My store sells electronic items, which most of them have lithium batteries. I worry that any scammers can make the same claim to get free electronic gears from me. It makes no difference from making false claim on item received is damaged (not many of them use this reason these days). I will follow up here for this case after I get my appealing results.
Most serious sellers do honest business, we have no reasons to lie about anything and our store is there and we can not run anywhere. I really feel honest sellers are at great disadvantages when dealing with such spams. It costs emotion and time. Again, just want to share my feeling. I think I am still too 'young' as a seller in ebay.