Buyer claims item damaged.
I'm not certain I am in the right place. A buyer purchased a very rare computer from me. It was very carefully packaged so that no items: monitor, keyboard. . . and so on, could ever shift. The Buyer is now claiming pretty much everything is broken and that the operating system is not functioning. The listing shows the operating system is functioning perfectly. The Buyer emailed photos of broken parts, including a removable cover from the back of the monitor (a solid piece of plastic approximately 5x8 inches) now completely broken in half. He claims the retractable door covering the CD player is broken and won't stay on unless held in place by hand. The photos in my listing clearly show the CD door open without any damage and the need of any hand. The Buyer says there is a sound of something rattling around inside the machine. This was not the case the day I packed this computer. He makes claims about other issues, again all false. Everything he is saying is untrue of the item I shipped and none of the photos he emailed concur with the photos in my listing. I can only think, because this is such a unique item, that this buyer has replaced all the good, with the bad from another computer and is now looking to return to me something utterly useless and unsellable. I would like to open a dispute against this Buyer but am unable to locate where to do so in the eBay site. Could someone please guide me in the right direction?
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·3 years agoProbably a scammer but with this sort of stuff no matter how its packed damage can happen. For example I bought an old stereo receiver many years back from an audio based site from a very reliable vendor. When it arrived the box looked perfect but it wouldn't power up. I took to a friend who's know electronics far better than I and in taking it apart he found the circuit board had cracked in two places due to what he called "The inner mass shifting" mainly due to age, the board was brittle. He jumpered it and powered right up.
In another instance even back farther I'd ordered a Pentium III PC direct from Gateway computers and it arrived rather a mess yet the original box appeared fine. Best I and Gateway could figure is fell from someplace landing flat on its top or bottom as when taking it apart the actual frame of PC was bent and they surely wouldn't have shipped that way. Of course they replaced it in full.
Odds are scammer in you're case and probably more likely if he/she refuses to ship it back which is exactly what I'd be asking for.
Point @inhawaii is making is things can be damaged w/o the shipping containers showing that. I can buy a hard drive at best buy drop it from a height flat on the hard ground and via concussion it's likely have the read/write heads strike the magnetic platters. Back in the day of that Apple Mac pretty much every CD Reader used in computers have a carboard or plastic insert in the drive that lock the read assembly in place and for "Shipping" or distance travel there'd be an ability to "Park" the hard drive heads essentially locking them outside the magnetic platters as the hard drives of the day were very subject to hard drives crashes (Heads smashing against the platters.) Eventually technology refined, became cheaper and then some but even say iMacs computers which were all in one's had many an issue due to hard freighting.
Dont for a moment think UPS, USPS, FedEx necessarily handle things gingerly or isolated something of weight even when other parcels say "Fragile" all over them. Last year we bought a outdoor patio table w/ glass top from Walmart and in getting it home the glass was busted in four or five pieces, one of the legs bent and the box looked pristine.
That said, things such as bubble wrap be it the tiny stuff or bigger bubblies dont lend allot to stopping or cushioning pressure nor does plain old Styrofoam and that's why many places use airbags now or those messy get everyplace Styrofoam peanuts but those also settle and tend lock into each other under real weight. For example UPS states to place "At least" two inches of protection around top, bottom and sides of any package, at least. Now that Macintosh would have come with molded Styrofoam that the unit and any accessories fit perfectly into and lock sandwiched between two sides.
Manufacturers are pretty aware of how UPS, Fedex handle packages. For example, I ordered a portable LPG Gas heater for camp at Amazon years back. The heater was as I said, encased in a Styrofoam casket per se and the actual shipping container was enormous at least six inches, perhaps more around top, bottom and all sides filled the brim with Styrofoam peanuts.
mindful-images
OP3 years agoThanks,
I get everything that you are saying, and I've come to understand through this forum that I will be expected to refund the Buyer. I also worked shipping/receiving long ago for Data General. I understand the physics of concussion and the effects of "inner mass shifting". Beyond bubble wrap each individual box containing components was lined with either, or both, the air pillows and Styrofoam popcorn. In the case of the broken plastic cover, that box was filled with the Styrofoam "popcorn". It could not have broken in transit. It's physical design alone would require, direct blunt force to break it into two halves. I brought that computer from Colorado to Wisconsin, where I live now, using the same manner of packing. Nothing was damaged in the slightest. The odds are slim that anything was damaged on the way to the Buyer. Certainly not however to the extent of damage he is claiming. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to interject your thoughts. They were well thought out and succinct. Also, I appreciate everyone's input here, and sincerely apologize to anyone I may have offended (@inhawaii) comes to mind. But I think it is time to move on from this. Have a great rest of the Weekend.
downunder-61
·3 years agoAlso, I appreciate everyone's input here, and sincerely apologize to anyone I may have offended (@inhawaii) comes to mind.
Nah, he can take it, we all can, you are frustrated and I don't blame you, sellers are not the important one's in the eyes of the eBay lords and masters LOL
mike_jayroe
·3 years ago"The pictures you have sent are definitely of a different computer than what I sent you. If you didn't switch this out from for a different computer than someone else did and I will definitely get to the bottom of it. I will provide you with a return shipping label so I can get the evidence back and start a police investigation. Based on the high dollar amount of this item it will probably be a felony theft, so thank you for your cooperation so we can figure out exactly who is to blame."
Couldn't agree more with sapphire studio. I don't think it could have been that damaged thru shipping without the outer box being damaged. I spent a good part of my working life on shipping/recieving docks.
Best of luck with this buyer.
bonjourami
·3 years agoSorry to say that Ebay putting the case on hold is a form letter in these hes said, she said, cases. Since the op refused to send a return label and refund after return, I expect on the 21st he will receive an email that the buyer has been fully refunded without having to return the computer. And the op will receive a defect to his account to boot. I hope Ill be proved wrong.
sapphire_studio
·3 years agoDon't get too much hope over eBay helping you. They made delay it like they are but most likely if you don't issue the refund they will for you. The only way I could see eBay maybe siding with you is if the seller has a history of this kind of abuse. How is their feedback and their feedback left for others?
Your best bet will probably end up being to pay to have it returned to you. If I was in your position I might send this to the buyer (if eBay refuses to help you.)
"The pictures you have sent are definitely of a different computer than what I sent you. If you didn't switch this out from for a different computer than someone else did and I will definitely get to the bottom of it. I will provide you with a return shipping label so I can get the evidence back and start a police investigation. Based on the high dollar amount of this item it will probably be a felony theft, so thank you for your cooperation so we can figure out exactly who is to blame."
krazzykats
·3 years agoI always take the “You can catch more bees with honey than vinegar†approach.
The strong-arm approach may irritate the buyer even more.
inhawaii
·3 years agoEvery seller in history who has ever had a item they shipped arrive broken has said it was "packaged well".
mindful-images
OP3 years agoIt was packaged in the same manner as when Apple first delivered it to the original owner. Only difference being the inner boxes are not the original Apple containers. Same method different boxes. Not seeing any real value in your comment however.
inhawaii
·3 years agoSorry that you didn't find any value in my earlier comment.
I was hoping that it might make you realize that the item may have actually been damaged in shipping and that your buyer may be telling the truth.
No chance of that though.
The buyer is obviously a lying scammer.
mindful-images
OP3 years agoIt was several items the Buyer damaged. Each item bubble wrapped and placed in its own box, then placed inside the shipping container, each surrounded by the buffer of other boxes, as Apple had done originally. The outer box was not damaged. Yet, somehow, each item suffered severe damage. One solid plastic cover that clips to the back of the computer is now completely broken in half. It would take a great amount of blunt force to cause such unique damage. Yet again, the outer box revealed no damage. So yes. . . "No chance of that though".
inhawaii
·3 years agoThe damage you are describing certainly does sound fishy.
I don't blame you for your skepticism.
I certainly hope ebay feels the same way.
Good luck to you.
retro_entertainment_collectibles
·3 years agoThose old all in one machines were ghastly when it come to survival of concussions, even the the one's built like brick ___ houses like Kaypro's, Olivetti's, CP/M 80/86 machines. The original Macintosh (and Lisa) had buckets of issues in hard freighting that really never resolved until they started perfecting processes with the Mac SE. Apple was all about being very proprietary even though they boosted the serial mouse tracking and subsequent rectangular linked lists concepts from Xerox and then of course boosted by Microsoft of Apple prototypes. That's all these interfaces are, list's of rectangles and a mouse pointer coordinate intersecting them.
Unlike IBM who thought of ease of expansion in the field and in the field service Apple wanted make everything as difficult as possible. You just couldn't have Joe/sephine Q. Computer store come in and fix or upgrade em'. In doing so architecturally per se many of the Mac systems were prone to easy damage and places using them get smacked hard for authorized Apple service.
mindful-images
OP3 years agoTo follow up. On Thursday we received this email.
eBay Customer Service has placed the case on hold until Feb 21, 2023
Hi Julie,
Your case was placed on hold temporarily. We will get back to you with an update by Feb 21, 2023.
We have asked for more information from your customer to confirm the condition of the item received.
If any additional information is needed from you we will request it through an email.
stuff4divas
·3 years ago@mindful-images Unfortunately, I just saw your post today, so the only advice I can give is for the future.
My advice is for you to offer free returns bc not accepting returns makes some buyers claim NAD, Damaged, etc to force the return regardless of the no returns policy.
Offering free returns gives sellers 'some' protection in that if the item is not returned as sent, they can deduct up to 50% of the selling price. I offer free returns, but I rarely offer free shipping bc if it is a remorse return or item rec'd back is not the same as sent, there is no shipping cost I can deduct.
Ebay is known to give courtesy refunds for sellers that are in good standing, are long timers and don't have these types of issues very often when there is questionable buyer claims, albeit not very often.
Hope this works out for you. Plz come back and let us know what happened 😑
mindful-images
OP3 years agoThank you for this very sound advice. Very helpful. Have a great Sunday,
calisun14
·3 years agoYou have his address. Do something crazy.
mindful-images
OP3 years agoThis is an update. I received these 3 messages from eBay today. I've posted them here in the order they were received. The first two came in the very same minute. Each new message begins after: Hi Julie, or else, Hello Julie. Please pay particular attention to the second and last email we received. We are a bit confused, as the third email appears to contradict the second. The second email states we need to accept the Buyers demands, while the final email of the day states the case is on hold while eBay seeks more information from the Buyer.
Hi Julie,
We appreciate you trying to work things out with the buyer. They've asked us to step in and help resolve their return request, so we're going to take a look at the details of their case and decide what the next steps should be.
You can expect an update from us within 48 hours. There's nothing you need to do right now but, if you have questions, you can contact us Thanks for your understanding
Hello Julie,
I'm contacting you about the return request 5231306576 filed for Apple 20th Anniversary Macintosh Computer (TAM) in excellent condition. (115692414113) by pwrtoapplemac.
I've reviewed the details of this request and found that the buyer is claiming the item was delivered Arrived Damage.
When a buyer receives the wrong item, it arrives damaged, it doesn't match the listing description, or the buyer files a return within your return policy, they can return it to you for a full refund (including original shipping costs). Because the reason is outside of the buyer's control or within your return policy, we're also asking you to pay for return shipping.
I've placed the request on hold for 4 days to give you time to arrange return shipping with the buyer. Please note that if you don't resolve the issue by February 21, we'll issue the buyer a full refund on your behalf without requiring the item to be returned.
There are several ways to provide return shipping for your buyer. You could, for example, purchase a prepaid shipping label from your preferred shipping service and then send the label to the buyer through My ebay messages. If you choose this option, be sure to purchase a shipping label sufficient to cover the item's return.
To learn more about other options for return shipping, please visit the Return shipping options page.
I’m glad I had the opportunity to clarify the situation.
Thanks,
Hi Julie
eBay Customer Service has placed the case on hold until Feb 21, 2023
Your case was placed on hold temporarily. We will get back to you with an update by Feb 21, 2023.
We have asked for more information from your customer to confirm the condition of the item received. If any additional information is needed from you we will request it through an email.
djvp53
·3 years agoI'm sorry this happened to you. Send the buyer a return label and refund his money when you get the package. I hope you get your computer back in saleable condition. Good luck and let us know how the return goes.
albertabrightalberta
·3 years ago@mindful-images
Did the buyer open a formal return request for NAD (not as described)? If so, you MUST respond to it and either accept the return (paying for return shipping) or issue a refund without requiring a return.
If you don't do it by the deadline in the dispute, the buyer will ask ebay to step in and they'll give the buyer a refund (from your money) AND let him keep the item. Additionally, your account will be dinged for not resolving it yourself.
Although you can't open a dispute against the buyer, what you can do is report the buyer.
mindful-images
OP3 years agoThe buyer did open a formal return request for NAD. I called eBay and told them I am refusing to refund the buyer. They said they would investigate and get back to me this Thursday. From what I am gathering here however, no matter the circumstances and what is the truth, as the Seller I am out a $1750.00 dollar computer due to Buyer-inflicted-damage, plus I must refund the money. With what I am learning here I have already removed the other remaining high dollar listing from eBay. I will try then to sell the more valuable items I own, locally. Thank you everyone for your time and input. I will post the verdict once it is in. Have a great rest of the evening.
luckythewinner
·3 years agoThe listing shows ... The photos in my listing clearly show ...
Anyone can put up a listing that shows a photo of a Rolex, and then ship a Timex to the buyer. The pictures in a listing prove nothing about what was shipped or what the buyer received.
I would like to open a dispute against this Buyer but am unable to locate where to do so in the eBay site. Could someone please guide me in the right direction?
Sellers do not open disputes. They respond to disputes opened by the buyer. If the buyer files a dispute saying the item was not as described, the buyer will almost always win. Sorry.
m60driver
·3 years agoIn all likelihood a scammer of a buyer noticed that you are an infrequent seller who listed an electronic item priced well above your other prices. There are countless threads here describing the exact same situation. There is little you can do and Ebay will not lift a finger. You can pay return shipping but odds are you will not get back the computer you shipped. Sorry for the bad news but I am on a campaign here to get Ebay to warn new/infrequent sellers that listing some expensive electronic items comes with high risk of fraud. Ebay could easily create an algorithm to do this or use AI. That they do not is to Ebay's everlasting shame.
And by the way, you can not open a dispute against the buyer, all you can do is report the buyer to Ebay after you have paid to get a boat anchor back as the return.
mindful-images
OP3 years agoThe verdict -- as we were forewarned here -- went in favor of the Buyer. At one point during this dispute ebay declared they were putting the case on hold while gathering more information from the Buyer. When the verdict came in, they sided with the Buyer. The only additional information we were given was a single photo. We assume this is what eBay based their final decision on. It was of a small portion of the packing we used to ship the system. We expect the Buyer is claiming then, that this is all we ever used. The photo the Buyer submitted showed: no Styrofoam popcorn, no sheet foam backing used to protect the main system, no air pillows, nor heavy duty bubble wrap. The spare empty boxes constructed and used to buffer and fill in any voids in the shipping container were also left out. Early on I wanted pictures of the original outer box from the Buyer in order to see if any damage had occurred during transit. No damage had occurred, but in the frame of one photo was a stacked portion of the packing we used, including two of the empty filler boxes -- also undamaged -- air pillows, and a portion of the heavy-duty bubble wrap we used to protect the monitor screen. I pointed this out in an email to ebay, also early on in the dispute. Obviously though, they chose to ignore this as evidence. In the final decision ebay fully refunded the Buyer from our account, let him keep the machine, and ebay kept $242.00 final value fee. We thought we were always being so careful while using ebay: making certain every listing was exact to the item. Using absolute focus that each item was safely packaged, as well as maintaining 100% on time shipping. Having gained a fuller understanding of ebay's willingness and participation in providing a corrupt vehicle for societies bottom-feeders poised to prey upon those good (Buyers and Sellers) who only want to do good business, we have now removed all accounts from ebay and taken down all listings. That ebay kept the final value fee is unfathomable and yet so telling of the deep-rooted corruption they wield with impunity and encourage by example. Thank you all for letting me vent, and for the time and advice that was given. It did help to lessen the eventual, predesigned outcome.
krazzykats
·3 years agoYou could file a shipping insurance claim if this happened in shipping.
You did fully insure it, yes?
mindful-images
OP3 years agoDidn't happen during shipping. I asked the Buyer for pictures of the outer shipping box. There was no damage to the box. I packed each item with bubble wrap inside separate individual boxes, then placed each securely inside the outer shipping box. Where there were voided areas remaining in the original outer shipping box I constructed empty boxes and fitted each in a manner ensuring nothing within the main box could shift, and so, ensuring no items could be damaged. Impossibly though, the Buyer is claiming that each component in each of their own boxes were damaged. The solid plastic removable cover from the back of the machine was triple wrapped in bubble wrap and is now broken completely in half. It would take the blow of a hammer to inflict such damage, or else some other applied force. Sorry to run on like this. But no, this is not a carrier issue. This is, as m60driver describes, a scammer looking to profit from fraudulent claims.