Buyer claims box was empty
Hi everyone, I shipped a box of enamelware dishes a couple weeks ago, shipment was tracked & said it was picked up at the post office after USPS couldn't deliver & left a notice. 5 days later buyer messaged me to say the box was empty. She sent pics of the packing material and the thank you note that was inside. The weight of the package when I shipped it would indicate it was not empty and the box didn't appear damaged. I can't rally any live human at eBay and not sure what to do. Any advice? I'm not super experienced at selling but the whole story is suspect to me.
48 comments
yoonix1
·2 years agoI had recently awkward emails from a Buyer as well 5 days after the delivery. Buyer never filed INAD. You should report the Buyer immediately.
certifiedcitynet
·2 years agoThe buyer's claim seems absurdly suspicious. Why would he/she/it sign for an empty (very light) box if dishes were supposed to be in it? I would instruct the buyer to save all packaging and pursue an insurance claim for the questionable "loss".
If I suspected fraud, I would threaten to contact the buyer's county detectives and postal inspectors, and actually do it if pushed. You might be surprised by how effective these actions have been at fighting such scams, at least at my company.
My business always makes a video recording of the packing and sealing process. Unlike thieves, videos do not lie.
broto_64
·2 years agoThis has happened to me once or twice, mostly as a buyer, a box arrives damaged and whether contents are missing or not it seems the shipper (whether usps or ups or fedex) take no responsibility for it. In fact if I want compensation the liability is placed on the seller, or it is where I am told to go seek funds.
It is frustrating as a seller, we all want to think the worst but the analytics of the case are clear, the fault falls on the seller regardless of what happened. So this buyer is correct in seeking the attention of the seller in this case, regardless of how deep some are looking to find scam or scheme in the matter, if a parcel arrives damaged with missing items then the liability is going to most likely fall on the seller.
I realize the seller stated they sent a box made almost entirely out of packing tape but as a general rule that is not how I like to send my boxes out. If there's going to be "packing" going on then most of that goes on inside the box in ways of padding. I tend to use only boxes that are in good physical shape and are either new or still look new cosmetically. Then I use a packing tape that STICKS and I usually wrap it once around the whole box to seal the flaps, sometimes I'll run a strip of tape across that, on odd occasion and for large parcels I'll run two strips but that's it. I don't do frankenboxes because it looks unprofessional and even thou the frankenbox should hold up better than anything it's the appearance of the frankenbox that in my mind tends to attract trouble.
Having read this thread I like the seller's attitude, it is likely the best way to get a cooperative buyer to assist in ways of filing a claim or what have you. As a seller it probably would be best to issue a refund at some stage before too much longer, but I would also most likely be inclined to file such a claim with the shipping company.
eb_in_co
OP2 years agoThe buyer says she is opening a case with the post office for the loss, left me positive feedback (not just positive but downright effusive) and is not requesting a refund even though I offered it to her. I'll never know what actually happened but it's time to let it go. A sincere thank you to everyone who provided their thoughts and advice.
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoWhat was really weird in this particular case is the buyer asking the OP is they could "resend the dishes", as if the seller had actually SENT an empty box without the plates.
keziak
·2 years agoI just had a buyer send me a photo of her book. When she said it had a tear on the jacket I initially kicked myself for missing it.....but in the photo it was all torn to heck. I said remind me how I shipped it and s he said she would go find her husband for the materials. Last of heard from her. I wonder if her husband somehow ripped the jacket when opening the package. I don't have a photo of the package but given the book I probably used a Multi-D cardboard mailer. I don't know how it would be opened that disastrously. But she didn't get back to me about signs the package may have been opened for inspection (Media Mail).
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoYay!! Good job!
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoThe buyer says she is opening a case with the post office for the loss, left me positive feedback (not just positive but downright effusive) and is not requesting a refund even though I offered it to her. I'll never know what actually happened but it's time to let it go. A sincere thank you to everyone who provided their thoughts and advice.
Nice a buyer who actually realizes that they can, as the receiver, file a claim with USPS and it is in fact much easier for them to do so. They may actually be able to take the item to their local post office and file and resolve the claim without ever having to file one online.
Over the years I have done this a couple of times as a receiver and never had any issues with resolving the case with USPS. They refunded both times but I did have to push them a bit to get the shipping cost refunded as well.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoI am having a really really hard time even imagining a box of dishes disappearing unless you packed that box so badly that they fell out somewhere on the way. My opinion.
eb_in_co
OP2 years agoI taped the living hell outa that box! They would have had to run it over with the mail truck.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoWell now the mailman who ran over the box has some nice plates to eat his lunch on along the way. LOL!!!
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoOne thing is for sure. Not many Postal workers are going to take the chance of loosing their high paying jobs with benefits to pilfer a package. No way.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoDo what one of the poster said. Tell her you need to file an insurance claim on the “damaged parcel with the “missing†stuff. Tell them they need to see the box and to see that it was tampered with, or crushed, or dented or whatever. The PO may request she takes the box to her local PO when you file them claim. Then wait and see what the response is.
sextons-sweet-deals
·2 years agoFor now, ignore them. I would fight if they do open a case.
Just seems funny that someone would open a box and remove the plates and put the packing material and note back inside and it goes onto the buyer.
A thief would have taken the whole box (no time to unpack), but it sounds like the buyer picked up the package at the post office.
Here is the kicker, it took 5 days for the buyer realized the box was empty even after carrying it out of the post office.
What does the buyer profile and all feedback (given / received) look like?
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoThe enamel plate fairy stole the plates. LOL
broto_64
·2 years agoI have seen this statement in this thread more than once and I want to add that some people simply can't get around to filing a return immediately and it does not in any way invalidate their claim. A buyer has 30 days to open a return, in fact they have 30 days after tracking shows delivery to contest the sale, it matters not that they didn't open a return or send a message to the seller the very day their item was delivered.
sextons-sweet-deals
·2 years agoBuyer picked the box up at the post office. Should be very easy to compare an empty box vs. a box with plates when picking it up. Waits five days to say anything.
My guess the buyer scamming. Probably has abused the system too much and cannot open a case. They only contacted the seller and sent a picture of packing material and the note.
No damage to box, no USPS tape stating it was damaged / tampered with.
I'm really not concerned about the 30-day issue. It is easy to tell what's going on here.
If the seller has the receipt from USPS, it will show the weight when received. I print my labels, but I wait in line to get a receipt. Never drop and walk away.
ten_o_nine
·2 years ago@sextons-sweet-deals
Should be very easy to compare an empty box vs. a box with plates when picking it up.
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Not really, not every planet. On the moon, there is no gravity, so all boxes weigh the same.
USPS should plan for out space scam.
tools*
·2 years agoThe dishes are probably in her kitchen cabinet, so she isn't lying about the box being empty.
eb_in_co
OP2 years agoYou get points for the funniest answer. That made me laugh, thanks
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoYEAH THE plate fairy decided that after they stole them they better give them back to the rightful owner.
eb_in_co
OP2 years agoAppreciate all the advice. Since I wrote, I received multiple photos from the buyer and it does look like there's some damage to the box and most of the packing material was not in the box on arrival but I still don't see where it was smashed and re-taped to the extent the contents would have fallen out. I tend to tape the heck out of my boxes. Buyer offered to go to her PO where she knows the postmaster personally to report it. She did notice the box was very light when she picked it up. These were enamelware dishes so not terribly heavy. I think the box was less than 10 pounds. I did have it scanned at the counter and not sure I have receipt but do have tracking number. She seems to be cooperating so I'll see if I have recourse via the PO but assume I'll be refunding her however it goes. Her other feedback is good and I'm hopeful this is on the up and up. TBD but thanks, all, for the input.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoAppreciate all the advice. Since I wrote, I received multiple photos from the buyer and it does look like there's some damage to the box and most of the packing material was not in the box on arrival but I still don't see where it was smashed and re-taped to the extent the contents would have fallen out. I tend to tape the heck out of my boxes. Buyer offered to go to her PO where she knows the postmaster personally to report it. She did notice the box was very light when she picked it up. These were enamelware dishes so not terribly heavy. I think the box was less than 10 pounds. I did have it scanned at the counter and not sure I have receipt but do have tracking number. She seems to be cooperating so I'll see if I have recourse via the PO but assume I'll be refunding her however it goes. Her other feedback is good and I'm hopeful this is on the up and up. TBD but thanks, all, for the input.
If she is willing to go to the post office open a USPS claim and tell her she will need to retain the box and packing materials and anything that was inside the box. Once you have filed the claim with USPS they will probably request she bring the box into the post office for inspection to determine whether they are going to honor the claim. Generally when USPS damages a package they will leave a note on the package at delivery. But for the moment, until she actually opens a case, I would do nothing. Do NOT unilaterally refund, once you have done so it's game over.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoThe buyer can smash the box all they like for pictures to send to you on ebay and remove whatever they want from the box to show you a picture of that. None of which equates to the truth.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoThe buyer can smash the box all they like for pictures to send to you on ebay and remove whatever they want from the box to show you a picture of that. None of which equates to the truth.
Agree this is 100% a he said, she said, situation. However most carriers label and image a damaged package before they drop it off if damage does occur in shipping. As others noted the scan weights also include the weight of the package in route but that does not equate to what may or may not be inside the box.
There is no way to be 100% sure what the ground truth is which is why eBay policy leans towards the buyer so often. There are of course ways to fight and dispute that but it is a painful process. I have had to work through a number of damage claims with USPS and it is always a drawn out process that requires buyer cooperation. Without it you don't stand much of a chance with the claim.
rugerskick
·2 years agoWell this is a more hopeful scenario, it may be a genuine problem from shipping. Or shes really, really good and has done it a lot. Check her feedback profile and see if you can glean a history of problem deliveries or something else that may seem off.
ten_o_nine
·2 years ago@eb_in_co
These were enamelware dishes so not terribly heavy. I think the box was less than 10 pounds
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An empty box weighs less than 12oz unless too large, if someone told me to pick up a 10-pound box, or a set of enamelware package, I'd breath twice before picking up, and now imagine the surprise when I fall down because I put too much energy to lifting a 10oz. package, it happens.
rugerskick
·2 years agoThe local post office final scan before delivery will usually photo and always record the weight of the package. Get in touch with the local postmaster and give the tracking number and ask about what weight was recorded, and if the packaged appeared opened or damaged before being delivered. Explain the person says it was "empty" which means if it did weigh correctly per the labels weight, then either the person is lying or the postal delivery carrier took the items, so then they would also get the delivery carrier involved and ask about what happened.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoFollow the advice given by @ittybitnot if they have not opened an official case/claim with eBay or their CC company there is a chance you may never hear from them again. I had this happen once long ago before I used to wait at the counter to have the packages scanned into the system and obtain a receipt which shows the weight at the time the USPS took possession for the package.
A couple of scammers have tried the empty box routine and after notes similar to the one @ittybitnot mentioned I never heard from one of the scammers again. The other one filed a claim which I initially lost but appealed and won by providing a copy of the original receipt from the post office scan.
All the scammers ended up in my BBL.
na_833338
·2 years ago@ittybitnot gave you good advice on what to do and say.
You need to go to your post office with your receipt and asked to talk to the person in charge. You don't mention how much the package weighed, but it must have been several pounds, right?
It's hard to imagine someone picking up a package at the post office counter (that is expecting a set of dishes) and not notice. If it was me, I would have refused the package as soon as I picked it up and could tell that it was too light for an order of dishes.
I would think it would be easy enough to have the post master from your location make a call to the person in charge at the location the package was picked up from to confirm that the box matched the weight that it started out with from your post office.
ittybitnot
·2 years ago@eb_in_co
Since your buyer has not filed a claim, you really don't need to do anything until they do. You are not required to tell the buyer how to do it either, nor do you have to contact customer service. If they do file, the following has been known to help:
Dear buyer,
So sorry to hear that the parcel was missing the contents. Since I have photos of the products, an inquiry will be filed with USPS to determine if the product was lost and subsequently found along the way. Please supply a photo of the notice left on the package that arrived empty for insurance purposes.
I will also file with the US Postal Inspectors who typically replies with a case number in 24 hours. I will forward that to you so you can be kept informed on he progress of their investigation. Though I do have your name and address, do you have a daytime contact number you would like me to add to the report? It may help the recovery of your items in a more expedient fashion.
Sincerely,
You
As you suggested, this doesn't pass the "sniff test"..... It is generally a tactic used to "shake down" a newish seller, who is not familiar with the ploy or procedures. Some are so afraid of a red donut feedback review (that doesn't count for anything anymore) that they will simply refund and let the buyer keep the "missing" product for free.
Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
bashort
·2 years agoI would assume that was a fairly heavy package, not that this will necessary do you any good but if you bought the appropriate shipping for dishes and then sent a empty box you should be getting a shipping refund, since usps evidently weighs and measures packages at some point it would be interesting to know what USPS says that the package weighed and do they weigh it more than once along the way and can you get that info.
trbl13
·2 years agoJust to let her Know that you Did Ship a Full box of Dishes...and that you are Puzzled as to Why she SAYS the Box was Empty....I would Send her (via eBay Messages) a Copy of the Original Post Office Receipt that shows the Original Weight of the Package...I hope you do Have that USPS Receipt...an important Piece of the Puzzle...
offroadlover79
·2 years agoI hope you get this straightened out! I always hope and pray that I deal with honest people. I would check the buyers feedback and see if they have other issues that happened like that. If so, might want to put them on a blocked buyers list as suggested above! Best of luck!!
eb_in_co
OP2 years agoThanks for the replies! Buyer has not yet filed INAD and it sounds like that's the proper channel prior to refunding. The box was intact. I don't see any evidence it was opened & re-taped (she sent pictures). The box was delivered from post office in Colorado to a post office in New Mexico. It was never even left outside anywhere. I thought it strange that she asked if I still had the dishes and, if so, would I send them. Really? Weird. It doesn't pass the smell test. I pushed a bit to see it someone else may have opened the box & removed contents. I'm hoping she'll respond but if not, will request INAD and I'll refund her. $40 lesson learned but it has soured me a bit on using ebay.
ten_o_nine
·2 years ago@eb_in_co
You mean she picked up an empty box from the post office but thought it was full of dishes.?
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoAnd didn't think to report it to the seller until 5 days later?
reallynicestamps
·2 years agoWhen you mention your post office enquiry be sure to ask the customer to cooperate with the Postal Inspectors in there investigation of "rifling".
And I understand "rifling " is the term to use when you enquire about insurance at the post office.
The postal inspectors have a reputation.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoBuyers are sometimes not honest. Or can we assume the USPS did something? I don't think so.
Best you can do is refund the buyer and put them on your blocked buyer's list.
No sense in asking for a return since there is nothing in the box.
USPS is rather good and never get anything lost.
In fact, I had a return just today.
retro-licious
·2 years agoIf you think they're scamming I would ask them to return what was sent at their expense. Why should they reap all the benefits of their dishonesty?
martin2001
·2 years agoStrange. You need to go to the post office and ask your postmaster to help you start an investigation. You may aslo message the buyer that you have initiated an investigation by the post office and express hope, they will cooperate to get to the bottom of the matter and ask them to give you time to accomplish that.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoMaybe the buyer is telling the truth, maybe not.
You will have to refund if there is an INAD claim and pursue insurance reimbursement.
rockyroadtradingpost
·2 years agoYikes -- I guess this is one reason to stand in line and get your USPS scan at the counter, rather than at the automated machine. Hope you get to the bottom of this.
eb_in_co
OP2 years agoThe package was shipped at the counter
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoAs it was picked up at the PO as well, it might be worth calling the buyer's PO to see if there was any (obvious if they were dishes) weight discrepancy?
rockyroadtradingpost
·2 years agoGood, then the receipt shows the weight.
rugerskick
·2 years agoAlways get packages scanned by a person. No protection if not scanned in by a human being.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoIf the buyer has filed an INAD, you don't have many options right now, but to accept the return or just refund the buyer.
You need to contact USPS and see what you can find out about the package when it was picked up by the buyer.