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Buyer Circumvented Block - was still allowed to leave negative feedback?
Hi All,
A buyer who circumvented a block I had on their main account used a secondary account to purchase the cheapest item on my store very clearly with the intent to leave negative feedback. I talked with an ebay representative on the phone and they confirmed it was the same user (same address and last name on their account), and told me it would be okay to cancel the sale and that the buyer would not be able to leave a negative review.
However, the "buyer" ended up leaving a negative review and when I requested feedback removal, I was denied even though the buyer very clearly broke Ebay ToS by circumventing the block on their main account. In fact, even after providing more details to ebay I lost my appeal to have this feedback removed again, with them claiming the buyers experience is legitimate...
It is very wrong to me that ebay will just let any person looking for revenge to leave negative feedback even if they go out of their way to break ToS to do so. I am also bothered that they won't even consider the fact that a customer service rep advised me that it's okay to simply cancel the order, and that there is this previous solved community post stating it's okay to cancel an order with "issue with buyer's address" when you're certain they are circumventing a block.
Has anyone ever had any luck getting negative feedback in this situation removed? I am really shocked that ebay is siding with the "buyer" in my situation... would appreciate any advice if possible and especially if an ebay employee could explain my situation is different from the one linked above : /
kh-light
·9 months agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
gurlcat
·2 years agoI disagree but I'm not going to scroll through the past few months of threads to re-read and tally the number of posts by sellers whose negative feedback WAS against policy (and everyone in the thread agreed, it wasn't just the seller "thinking" so) but they couldn't get it removed no matter what they tried ..... I just know I've seen a lot more of those in recent months than in the past, and I've seen many other experienced and Community-active sellers say the same thing.
ajw2203
·2 years agoThe ebay reps on chat don't seem knowledgeable anymore I think they are just there to make you go away happy with their response. Twice this month chat reps told me something then it wasn't true.
Somebody once said we aren't on ebay for positive comments we are here to make money. You posted this 6 days ago, hopefully you let it go and moved on
mam98031
·2 years agoOn each Ebay page there is a link to contact Customer Service at the top of the page and again at the bottom of the page.
I would suggest that you contact Ebay for Business on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter for the better trained CSRs.
Here are your options for contacting Ebay Customer Service. Please be aware that for social media CS, you send them a Private Message and briefly explain what your problem or issue is. Feel free to leave your Name, address, phone number and/or your email address in this message. It is private and secure and it may help to speed up the response for you.
https://twitter.com/askebay
https://www.facebook.com/eBay/
https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/
Your options will be on the left. If you use the link below you can only get to the Automated Assistant or Chat box type AGENT in the box and hit enter. You will then get more options. Not all options are available 24/7. It will depend on staffing available. So sometimes you can request a call back and sometimes you can't. Sometimes you have the Chat option available and other times it won't me. If it is important to you to use one of those options, just try back later.
If you use a cell phone or other mobile device, you may need to turn off your Spam filter so that Ebay can call you.
If you are a seller outside of the US or Canada, you will need to use the Chat Option.
https://www.ebay.com/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid
https://www.ebay.com/help/home
ajw2203
·2 years agoThank you. 🙂
grandmascloset-4
·2 years agoYou are lucky that is all that happened. I had a buyer return an item they had clearly worn and made worthless and ebay required that I reimburse them in full and refused to process my appeal despite photographs and emails from the buyer showing their intent to defraud. Ebay took money out of my bank account four times and I had to accept nearly $60 in losses just to keep selling on Ebay. Getting shafted by Ebay is an expected expense. Be very careful about the shipping address of the buyer and pay close attention to the first info that flashes across your screen. Although my buyer requirements stipulate I only ship or sell in the USA, Ebay let a buyer in Spain purchase one of my items. The screen said she was in Spain then that info disappeared. It was only after hours on the phone that an ebay rep confirmed the buyer was actually in Spain that I was able to cancel the order but it was a huge time waster and took my product off line for two weeks!! I call Ebay and confirm address is in USA and they are not drop shippers or freight forwarders with each sale. Its a huge time waster but better than losing the product and having to pay some buyer in Russia or Tiawan for an item they never return plus pay the outrageous return shipping that ebay gets a fee for charging you! If you find a better selling platform please let me know. Good luck!
bennotbill
·2 years agoIf you do something wrong on eBay you can't just keep adding to it. That was the sort of answer I expected the rep to give but it seems the real answer is anything goes.
It's like some ads get taken down while others don't. It's a hodge podge of rules.
What we are missing here is the rule that explains when rules are applied or not.😀
kyle@ebay
Hey @mam98031 and @hkgcwobu when it comes to a feedback or defect removal request, the decision is based on all the information available at that time. So we can infer that there simply wasn't enough information to allow a removal at the time of the request.
It is important to remember that although a second appeal may be allowed under certain circumstances, it does not guarantee that the appeal will be granted, and feedback removed.
To answer your question directly, BBL circumvention is not allowed, but from a feedback removal standpoint, that can be difficult or even impossible to prove. However, when an account is reported for this type of behavior, a thorough investigation takes place. Depending on the findings of this report, all feedback from the reported account may be removed.
mam98031
·2 years ago@kyle@ebay
Just me again as I'm puzzled by your response. The OP was very clear that they contacted Ebay about this issue, it was the Ebay CSR that agreed it was the same buyer circumventing the block on their original account. So how exactly is that not enough info to determine that the buyer made a conscience decision to blow off the block, purchase with another account of theirs, then leave a negative FB because the seller had the nerve to try and stop them from circumventing the rule.
Talk about rewarding a buyer for bad behavior.
Clearly circumventing the BBL is allowed as this buyer was able to pull it off.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult here. It appears the OP did EVERYTHING they should have done and even under the guidance of an Ebay CSR and still they leave this seller with no resolution.
Hopefully you will look this conversation up and have the CSR updated on the policy of Cancellations and when a buyer can leave negative FB, as they certainly messed that up which in turn caused the end result that Ebay is just making the OP live with.
This process regarding this specific type of problem is woefully inadequate for sellers. Very Sad!
ittybitnot
·2 years agoeven under the guidance of an Ebay CSR and still they leave this seller with no resolution.
@mam98031
Under some "new rules" there will be no intervention allowed by any CS rep be they the foreign call center reps one gets via chat or callback OR those US employees that monitor the social media portals.
Yesterday, there was a post on eBay's FBook business page that was quite interesting that may serve to explain this new "streamlined" feedback game.
The eBay response is a reply to a seller that cancelled two listings per the buyer request for which the buyer was refunded. The buyer then left two negs, even though the listings were cancelled and for all intents and purposes were no longer "transactions" EXCEPT FOR THE PURPOSES OF LEAVING FEEDBACK, which eBay would not remove.
The reply from the eBay for Business rep:
eBay for Business
We’ve recently standardized the process to have all feedback appeals submitted through the Seller Help Dashboard to better align with our global process and maintain consistency for all users. This would be why any support member you talk to though phones, chat, email, or social media would be unable to assist with the removal. We understand that changes can sometimes be challenging, but we believe this adjustment will ultimately create a more streamlined experience. Thank you for your understanding. ~Jenn
So as @kyle@ebay suggests, block circumvention is against policy, but it is not a reason to remove feedback. Customer support is no longer allowed to intervene regardless of the reason, so it is best you suck it up and enjoy your new improved streamlined journey of no resolution allowed.
fern*wood
·2 years agoEbay needs to change (if they haven't already) the earlier written policies citing when feedbacks would be automatically removed. Have they also changed the protection on faulty returns where feedback was automatically removed if the return was handled by the seller? I've seen that buyer requested cancellations and circumventing blocks are no longer protected.
sin-n-dex
·2 years agoI had a situation of a return and they told me (many months or even a few years ago) that feedback is not removed if you accept and process the return.
So I think that's been gone to the wayside for a long time.
I think if the buyer breaks the rules (and it can be proven, like in the OP's case), FB should be removable.
C.
mam98031
·2 years agoWell that is true except when the FB the buyer left breaches some rule. With that said, the subject of this thread doesn't have anything to do with FB that was left after a return happened.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoOk. I get that. Blocking with a buyer same one coming back different account and cancelling that order is a NO NO. SORRY you cancelled their order they can leave a neg for that. Contributes to customer getting upset over item getting cancelled whether they were blocked or not.
gurlcat
·2 years agoMaybe I'm misunderstanding but are you saying they would have a right to be upset about that? Do you seriously think they bought the cheapest thing from this seller because they really wanted it? Did you not read their other replies in the thread, talking about the background information with this person?
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoI went assuming that from what that post I responded to said is that for some reason maybe ebay has some new rule not explicitly stated of their own about not removing feedback if it was a cancelled sale regardless of the rules the buyer broke. I have no idea why they staunchly refused to remove this feedback
mam98031
·2 years agoNo there isn't unless it is unannounced, policy pages are not updated and the change is unpublished.
mam98031
·2 years agoWhat? So you think it is OK for a blocked buyer to use a different account and purchase from the seller that blocked them? So it is OK for the buyer to break the rules and have the right to damage the seller's account when the seller did nothing wrong. Broke no rule. The buyer broke the rule, not the seller. But the seller doesn't get protected????
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoI read that post form itty and he seemed to imply that some unspoken rule as of recent is that any cancelled sale has no protection from bad feedback anymore, at least automatically through the system. Maybe a resolution after this seller continues to discuss removal with them.
mam98031
·2 years agoNo, at least not according to Kyle. Have you read his post?
gurlcat
·2 years agoWell then here's what I would love to know: Have they also "streamlined the experience" for buyers who've had sellers leave comments under the guise of a "positive" where they describe what bad behaviors the buyer did?
grandmascloset-4
·2 years agoWhy shouldn't sellers warn other sellers of a buyers bad behavior? Why can't sellers leave negative feedback?
mam98031
·2 years agoThe simple answer is that there are no personal transaction on Ebay. Every transaction is a business transaction and should be treated as such. Publicly shaming a customer is simply BAD business. It will drive away perfectly good buyers as they are going to be concerned if their seller may have had a bad day and take it out on the FB they leave for them.
Or the seller may have no reason to leave a negative FB, but the buyer leaves one for them. So in retaliation the seller leaves one for the buyer. There are all kinds of reason why this is simply a very bad idea. Which is why it is rare to find a site that allows such action.
gurlcat
·2 years agoIt's a complicated subject, but one that has been discussed here countless times. You can find tons of threads about it by using the search function. Sorry if that sounds flippant but I don't want to steer this thread too far off-topic. The only reason I brought it up was because (as the rules stand) it IS a violation for a seller to say anything negative about a buyer in feedback, so now I wonder if buyers who report it get equally bad responses from eBay as sellers (now) do, when buyers violate policy.
Basically the gist is, eBay laid off tons of employees recently, so there just aren't enough (especially English-fluent and eBay-fluent) ones to handle the workload. I figure if the default is to NOT remove feedback for sellers, then it should be the same for buyers, but who knows.
mam98031
·2 years agoIsn't that a bit of an overstatement. Ebay laid off about 1,000 employees or around 8%. While any layoff is very bad for those losing their jobs, overstating the issue serves no good purpose.
I did not see or find a break down of which jobs were laid off. Where did you find that it was a significant loss of fluent English speaking employees?
Amazon is cutting more than 10% of their employees.
Paypal is cutting about 9%
And many others this year unfortunately. It is really very concerning to be sure as it is all kinds of industries that are laying off people.
mam98031
·2 years ago@ittybitnot
Well that one is in direct conflict with the written and published policy. If the seller canceled the transaction with the reason the buyer requested it, the buyer is not suppose to be allowed to leave feedback of any kind.
Other terms and related policies
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behavior-policies/order-cancellation-policy?id=5298#:~:tex....
grandmascloset-4
·2 years agoWhat protection does a seller receives if a buyer that does not meet the sellers Ebay buyer requirements buys and pays for an item anyway that requires shipping to a country the seller does not ship to or to a freight forwarder or drop shipper the seller has clearly excluded from buying from them??
robbie31415
·2 years agoI've had a few feedbacks removed due to cancelled orders.
People misuse cancellations far to often, and I suspect the OP abused cancellations. It could have been a misunderstanding, however no one here including themselves have no real idea if it was actually the same buyer.
If the order itself has a Ship to address that isn't covered by the listing then the seller should be protected from negative feedback. eBay can clearly see the terms of the listing and that the buyer is violating policy by asking for something that isn't in the listing.
You can't blacklist FF's. That's against policy, as MANY buyers use FF's. Cancelling the order simply because you had a bad experience at that address is cancellation abuse. Say it was the UPS Store, many people have their packages delivered there to prevent porch pirates. The seller had a bad experience with a customer at the UPS store and decided to blacklist that address. Now I make my order and want to held at the UPS store. I wake up to see 'cancelled order' and a bunch of false allegations levied against me.
Now you are telling me I should have no rights to leave negative feedback? That this cancellation was appropriate even though I did nothing wrong?
Also, you can't ban international customers when they ask you to ship internationally. As long as the buyer is asking you to ship to the markets you advertise, cancelling the sale is inappropriate.
THIS is why eBay needs to tighten up on removing negative feedback for cancels. They are abused so often, and I didn't even start with the dishonest sellers that cancel OOS as buyer request.
Seller sends message to buyer. "I'm sorry I can't ship your item because I don't have it. Would you like me to cancel it so you can get your money back?"
Buyer wants their money back so they respond "Yes please".
Seller cancels "Buyer requested".
🙃
mam98031
·2 years ago@grandmascloset-4
This is a completely different subject than we are discussing on this thread. But simply, if you have your buyer requirements set up the way you like them, a buyer must meet those requirements or they can't purchase from you.
Ebay does not force a seller to ship to another country. It is a misunderstanding about how the requirements actually read and are applied.
On your Buyer Requirements, you can block "Block buyers whose primary shipping address is in a location I don't ship to.". There are lots of international members that are in the US for extended periods of time for a variety of reasons. They could have a job here, going to school, extended vaca or any number of reasons. If the buyer has a primary ship to address in the US, you can not block them.
A Freight Forwarder is NOT a drop shipper, that is a completely different thing.
If the Freight Forwarder has a US address and it is the one on the Buyers Primary ship to address, then you can't block this buyer from purchasing from you because they have a US ship to address. Or they may use a ship to address that is a friend or family member. It isn't typically a problem unless the seller makes it one.
The seller is responsible for what they sell to the address in which it is shipped to stated on the purchase of the item. If that item moves on to a different country and the buyer contacts you that they need to return the item, you do NOT have to pay for return shipping from the country in which they are in. If the buyer wants to return it, it will ship back to you at their expense. You are responsible only to the US address in which you shipped the item.
Don't give up good sales because you don't understand the process. Learn the process without assumptions and it will only benefit you.
Exclusions and special coverage when the buyer doesn't receive an item
Items collected by a third party on behalf of the buyer
Not covered
The buyer arranged their own shipping method, such as a courier pickup
Not covered
The buyer provided an invalid or incorrect address at checkout
Not covered
The item was sent to another address after original delivery
Covered:
Not covered:
Exclusions and special coverage when the item doesn't match the listing
The item was collected by a third party on behalf of the buyer
Not covered
Withdrawal of the items in your Collection when stored in the eBay vault
Not covered
Withdrawals may be covered separately by the eBay vault.
The buyer arranged their own shipping method, such as a courier pickup
Not covered
The item was sent to another address after original delivery
Covered:
Not covered:
robbie31415
·2 years agoCan you tell me how many times we've told people that the reps have just told them what they wanted to hear.
That doesn't equate to having enough information to actually link the accounts during a real review.
Just because someone is able to pull something off doesn't mean it's allowed. How many people have been able to pull off policy violations? Does that mean those violations are allowed? That's an extremely poor statement. People pull off speeding all the time, does that mean speeding isn't illegal?
mam98031
·2 years agoCan you tell me how many times we've told people that the reps have just told them what they wanted to hear.
No stats available that I'm aware of.
That doesn't equate to having enough information to actually link the accounts during a real review.
I'm not sure what this means. Are you saying if an Ebay CSR tells you the accounts are linked together that isn't enough to believe they are linked together?
Just because someone is able to pull something off doesn't mean it's allowed. How many people have been able to pull off policy violations? Does that mean those violations are allowed? That's an extremely poor statement. People pull off speeding all the time, does that mean speeding isn't illegal?
OK, but that doesn't change anything I've said on the subject.
robbie31415
·2 years ago"No stats available that I'm aware of."
The point wasn't about actual statistical analysis but rather the bad information provided by phone/chat CSR reps that pretty much every regular on the forums already knows.
I'd be shocked if other regulars here didn't acknowledge that these CSR reps provide bad/improper information to get people off the call/chat regularly. But you can act like you don't already know this all you want, I already know you know.
"I'm not sure what this means. Are you saying if an Ebay CSR tells you the accounts are linked together that isn't enough to believe they are linked together?"
CSR reps aren't responsible for making these determinations. They file reports for review to an internal division that will make that determination. The CSR rep could have said something 'it appears they are the same person', and the OP could be misrepresenting what was actually said. Or from my previous point the CSR rep told them what they wanted to hear to get them off the call.
So yes, simply because a CSR rep says something isn't enough to believe it's true. CSR reps make many mistakes thats why they don't make the determination but report it to a division that performs the actual review.
"OK, but that doesn't change anything I've said on the subject."
Actually it does. Just because you say it doesn't change anything on the subject doesn't mean it doesn't ACTUALLY change anything on the subject. It was a perfect example that shows how incorrect your thought process is on the matter. But I can't force you to accept the information. This is like me trying to tell you that you can't always respond to a payment dispute and you want to write up many posts of incorrect information until you come to the realization you are wrong.
mam98031
·2 years agoIt happens way too often that an Ebay CSR gives bad information to some member on some subject. But there are some good ones too. It is a mixed bag. But that makes things very difficult for the person seeking advice on how to handle something. And leads to mistakes made like this OP made.
Only made worse by when Ebay doesn't step up, take responsibility for the bad advice and make it right by the seller instead of leaving that seller with the aftermath of the bad advice.
IDK about the CSR being "responsible" to make a determination that two accounts are linked. According to the OP the CSR DID make the comment that they were linked. Which IMHO means they should have forwarded this OP on to a Feedback Specialist to resolve the issue on the feedback. But just my opinion.
Sorry I disappointed you yet again. I think it will be on ongoing issue for you. You are more than welcome to just ignore my posts.
gurlcat
·2 years agoThis is one reason I no longer bother talking to phone reps and do the live chat instead, because then I have the whole conversation in writing, in case I need it to prove what I was told before. And I'm not even saying that will work to reverse a subsequent action, but it has a much better chance than just saying "Well she told me ........ "
Oh by the way, if you do a live chat you can request that a transcript be sent to you, but when I did that I did NOT receive it, so don't trust that, just copy the conversation directly from your screen before you close it, and then paste it to a new document in your files.
robbie31415
·2 years agoPersonally, I like twitter and fb for the message history so I never have to worry about transcripts. The platforms save the messages.
But basically what this thread boils down to is an allegation of eBay policy violation due to circumventing eBay's system.
If people think that outsourced CSR reps are capable to handling this type of allegation then I don't know what to tell them.
broto_64
·2 years agoI am guessing here...
First report the buyer, then cancel for reason "problem with address?"
Thou that's tricky too, asking for a defect one way or another, also it's been rumored that even those buyers can leave feedback.
Seems to me as well, having read some of this thread, certain sellers sure are able to draw a lot of conclusions simply from a Buyer ID and a mailing address... Even to the point of foreseeing the future, that's pretty amazing if you ask me. So if I am looking for scammers then scammers I will see everywhere I look?
Hard to say of course, I've certainly had my trouble spots over the years... Things that go beyond annoying, but whether it was malicious or just a trend, hard to say, certainly if it was just a trend it still needed to stop but just because a purchase fits a pattern doesn't necessarily mean it will end a certain way.
I have learned, ship and wait...
If nothing happens, great.
If something else is going on, block and report.
Simple.
No crystal balls.
an-57470
·2 years agoIn addition to using the BBL, record the problem buyer’s shipping address.
Helps spot those that circumvent the BBL, and allows a seller to cancel due to “problem with buyer’s address.â€
Works for some situations (at least for now).
mam98031
·2 years agoTrue, but it does not prevent the problem this OP ran into with the feedback unfortunately.
an-57470
·2 years agoDoes canceling due to “problem with buyer’s address†not negate the buyer’s ability to leave feedback?
mam98031
·2 years agoNo it does not. Only Cancellations for Non Payment do that.
@Anonymous
Other terms and related policies
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behavior-policies/order-cancellation-policy?id=5298#:~:text=We%20understand%20that%20there%20may,t%20yet%20shipped%20the%20item.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoThat is frustration for sure. Did they say something about you cancelling their order in the negative feedback?
bennotbill
·2 years agoI was just wondering what would happen if the seller used another id themselves to retaliate in kind, as they said their buyer also sells items. Where would it all end?
Wasn't that the whole point of certain feedback rules, to stop things like this from going completely out of control.
mam98031
·2 years agoRetaliation is rarely a good idea. It certainly solves nothing.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoI see your point. In other words you are saying that if a seller cannot get a chance to get these removed they increase the risk of sellers doing the Same dang thing to retaliate against the buyer. That’s why, if the feedback warrants a removal as retaliatory acts it should be removed IMO.
fern*wood
·2 years agoI feel ebay has lost control of feedback in general. They tried to remove unfair ones, but I imagine way too much time was being invested in sellers wanting any bad feedback removed and calling over and over. I've benefited from a few automatic removals on cases I handled, but I never called in to get this benefit, and frankly, deserved them if I was at fault.
When I heard about the concierge service where sellers enjoyed receiving up to 16 courtesy feedback removals a year, that changed my thinking entirely about feedback. Feedback was more meaningless than ever in my mind. I can see many buyers being annoyed at this and voiced their complaints, so ebay being ebay they seem to have pivoted entirely in the opposite direction. I'm seeing posts now where undeserved feedbacks can't even get removed even if policies are still in place claiming they will be.
sin-n-dex
·2 years agoConcierge doesn't do that anymore, correct?
I've always had to fight to get any FB removed, but if it was deserved I generally worked stuff out with the buyer and they revised. One revised his to a neutral to complain how long the mail takes (to return the item), and eBay removed that because the mail is not in my control.
Some of the negs and neutrals I got were not so bad and probably wouldn't have affected selling ability if people read them (like that a coin was made of a heavy metal, um, duh). Or ones that are positive statements left as neutrals. It still annoys me if people leave those.
C.
mam98031
·2 years agoThat program for some sellers, various sizes with a Concierge service was retired a couple of months back, so sellers no longer can have those fb removed unless there is cause.
While I do see some FBs that really should be removed for cause that don't get removed no matter how hard the seller tries, I moreover see FB that do not break policy but understandably upset the seller so the FB doesn't get removed.
The FB the OP is trying to get removed, IMHO should be removed because the buyer circumvented the block on their original account. For what that is worth.
fern*wood
·2 years agoThat was my point. When ebay pivoted away from the courtesy removals they also seemed to have also pivoted away from removing ones that are against the rules, at least according to some recent threads.
mam98031
·2 years agoThat has not been my experience. While this particular OP is having an issue, it is a little complicated and I'm hoping we can get some further insight on this early next week as I did tag the Community team late on Friday.
I've participated on a few threads regarding FB removal since Ebay made the change. Those that had FB that broke one of the policies were successful in getting it removed. It has been those that the FB didn't break a rule that remained. That has been my experience so far, others may be different or may have different opinions of what breaks one of the rules and what doesn't.
mam98031
·2 years ago@hkgcwobu
I think this is a GREAT discussion. In a nutshell the buyer was blocked from buying from you, so they then circumvent that block by using another account to purchase from you. Now this gave them the opportunity to retaliate against you for blocking them and leave a negative FB on your account for having the gall to block them in the first place.
Ebay at this point is allowing the retaliatory fb to stand from a buyer that circumvented the block policy. To me that doesn't make any sense because the buyer circumvented policy for the purpose of damaging the seller's account.
Sometimes CS doesn't always get things right, so lets see if we can get more clarity on this important question / matter.
@devon@ebay
@kyle@ebay
@elizabeth@ebay
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoYes, if they can prove this was the same buyer who was blocked they should remove it. What would be the purpose of blocking a troublesome buyer in this situation. AND they caused even MORE trouble second time around for this seller.
mam98031
·2 years agoAccording to the OP, they proved that, yet the fb remains.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoI know they want us all to reply to most of these negatives now, but what is the seller going to say in this one.
mam98031
·2 years agoI missed that. When and were did Ebay say that?
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoI read it in one of their official posts. Yes they said it.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoI wish I could find that post, but it was stated that they want the sellers to deal with these that way which we always have done anyway.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoI even replied to their post I remember saying that that was always a good idea to do that rather than upset the buyer by removing their feedback, but in SOME cases that may not be sufficient.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoWhen I hear these things on here it makes me very nervous. I don’t know how you feel but dang if I got something like this seller did I would be worried about future transactions and feedbacks out of my complete control if one like this happens, or worse.
kyle@ebay
Hey @mam98031 thanks for checking in. As many of you may have noticed, the process for feedback removal has recently become a lot more strict. At this time, once a feedback removal has been formally denied, there is still an option to escalate the feedback for an offline review if the denial was in error.
There is also still the possibility of the buyer's second account be suspended due to their actions, which in turn would remove feedbacks they have left as well.
bennotbill
·2 years agoSorry but your reply isn't clear. Is eBay now allowing circumventing of the block policy or not?
mam98031
·2 years ago@kyle@ebay
Thank you very much for the response. However it still leaves the original question unanswered.
We have a buyer that circumvented the seller having them on their BBL and then posted a retaliatory negative FB on the sellers account, likely in an effort to damage the seller as the buyer was upset with them.
So we have a buyer that is acting in bad faith, damage a seller's FB, as CSR confirmed for the OP that the buyer's account is related to the account they blocked and the buyer is allowed to have the feedback stand???? The buyer broke the rules.
I'm very aware that FB removal has gotten stricter in recent months, but does that also now mean that buyers that break the rules get a free pass on some of the FB they leave? Which rules are being enforced and which ones aren't? Or do we know?
The OP did as the CSR told them to do by cancelling the transaction because the buyer was circumventing the BBL. The CSR gave the OP BAD info by saying the buyer could not leave negative FB on their account. So now the OP is in a real pickle. They did as directed by an Ebay CSR and now Ebay won't help them.
I realize that it is possible that Ebay has sanctioned the buyer, but really why would the OP care since Ebay won't take care of the FB that was wrongfully posted. FYI, the FB is still on the OPs account, so it does not appear the buyer was sanctioned with a suspension.
hkgcwobu
OP2 years agoI appreciate your continued support and activity in this thread 🙂
I hope we are close to getting clarity on this situation as i'm sure I am not the first or last person to go through this exact same situation!
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoI think Kyle said that the buyer has to be reported first, then they can go into the situation better than if that has not happened. Thing is, ebay must get 1 million reported buyers a year, how do they keep up with that? And how does a seller know for certain what to do. Like call several times or reopen cases on this how many times before getting resolution. Personally I might not go down that complicated road AND JUST REPLY to that feedback and though it must be a positive it is going to tell my buyers then REALITY of what happened and that is not going to be positive at all.
mam98031
·2 years agoAre you of the opinion that when the OP talked with a CSR from Ebay about this purchase that it wasn't enough to reporting the buyer? The CSR confirmed for the OP that the current buyer's account was linked with the blocked buyer's account.
This has been a problem for years. Ebay has very relaxed rules on this that mostly aren't even applied from what I've seen. This isn't the first thread on this type of a situation I've seen. Just the first one in a while.
The OP tried to do everything right. They did EXACTLY as the Ebay CSR instructed them to do and with the incorrect recommendation of the CSR the OP ended up with a negative FB that Ebay is not stepping up and handling.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoOh I am definitely hoping this seller can get that feedback removed. And I do not like seeing that this seller did what they were told to do with the promise of this feedback being removed. Ebay not following their own darn policy on this as far as I can see. So, if I get a situation like this I sure hope I can get that feedback removed. If not, I will tell my audience looking at my items what transpired on my reply.
hkgcwobu
OP2 years agoQuick update for you and anyone else who may come across this thread later.
Ebay still refuses to remove the illegitimate feedback the "buyer" left me. Yet that same person got my actual honest neutral feedback on their profile removed. Absolutely insane the favoritism ebay is displaying here. Not sure if they are favoring this person so heavily because they are a top-rated seller who has a long history with ebay and likely sells significantly more than me, but it's extremely disappointing they let anyone break the rules and then even reward them for it. They literally provided evidence of themself defrauding ebay during a return deduction and ebay is rewarding them for it. Never change ebay
mam98031
·2 years agoAs you know I've been trying to help you. Just so you know, the fact the buyer may be TRS and have a long history, has nothing to do with this at all. Ebay doesn't take that into consideration in this process.
I am very disappointed for you!
rockyroadtradingpost
·2 years agoI'm sorry this happened to you. To avoid this type of retaliatory behavior in the future, buy from a separate account.
mam98031
·2 years agoHow would that help? I think you misunderstood something.
The buyer purchased from the seller [OP] before, it was a problem [I don't know what the issue was]. The Seller put the buyer on their BBL. Then the buyer used a different account to circumvent the block to purchase from them again.
gurlcat
·2 years agoI don't understand. -Buyers can't receive neutrals.
sin-n-dex
·2 years agoI think the OP meant the neutral they left when THEY were the buyer... there was a transaction where the OP bought from the buyer before they buyer bought from them.
C.
gurlcat
·2 years agoAhhhhh, thank you. I forgot this story started with a reverse buyer-seller chapter.
Well at face value I'd say this OP has plenty to be upset about. But the part about the other person getting the neutral removed -my guess is it was about blind policy application as opposed to favoritism. Like I bet the OP described (yes, honestly) the scenario about that person wrongfully taking 50% out of the refund and how they reported this but nothing happened. If I'm correct about that, then the reason the comment got deleted was simply because of the policy against mentioning eBay decisions in sellers' feedback.
Seems to me the seller is just the extremely unfortunate combination of informed, clever, corrupt and vindictive. If I had to guess, they have the eBay version of a comic book villain story, where they were wronged in the past by one or more buyers with similar callousness and skills, so now they unleash their angst on innocent buyers (and even more angst if a buyer also happens to be a seller).
hkgcwobu
OP2 years agoHi @kyle@ebay,
I appreciate your response to this thread! But as the others have pointed out, it doesn't provide clarity to the situation of why my feedback removal request was denied, as well as my escalation appeal was also denied.
In my case, the buyer who left the negative feedback did so after I blocked their main/original account after a negative experience with them as a buyer myself. It's very clear they broke ebay policy by circumventing my blocked buyers list, is ebay no longer willing to remove negative feedback for malicious buyers? I contacted customer service before I made any actions, and got confirmation that I am okay to cancel the malicous buyers order and that ebay will back me up if they left negative feedback as part of your seller protection policies. Instead, even though the buyer very clearly broke ebay policy in order to make the purchase in the first place, I keep getting told that their feedback is "legitmate" and there is nothing that can be done to remove the feedback.
Can you confirm that the CSR's I spoke to are correct and that ebay will not support feedback removal in cases where buyers circumvented the Seller's block list?
Thank you
stacy_pme
·2 years agoI believe I too, am a victim of this, but they refused to remove it as well. Something needs to be done.
movieman630
·2 years agoI don't know what's going on but people are becoming extremely abusive with Negative FB. I've NEVER gotten this many negatives in all my years selling here.
showmecurrency4u
·2 years agoebay does not support sellers.
stacy_pme
·2 years agoYup, it's like they think you'll offer to refund and let them keep the item, if they leave negative feedback... It's bad right now for sure.
sin-n-dex
·2 years agoI have succeeded in getting these removed. I had to talk to a CSR, and explain that if they're on my BBL, they're not allowed to buy. If they circumvent my BBL, they're breaking the rules, and still not allowed to buy. People who aren't allowed to buy, shouldn't be buying, and thus should not be able to leave feedback. If he hadn't circumvented the block he wouldn't have been able to purchase which means he couldn't leave feedback.
It's a little bit of a circular argument, but keep going with that with a CSR by phone until you get someone who understands the argument.
I think it's only happened once that someone circumvented the BBL and I cancelled (when I found out who they are) and they left the worst feedback imaginable, calling me a "disgusting seller". The third time they had a new account and circumvented the block on the other two accounts (because eBay kept kicking him off), I reported the third account when I cancelled (as problem with address) and eBay canned the third account within ours. Now if he buys again I'm just going to report him and let eBay do it's thing, seeing as how they obviously don't want him as a customer.
C.
hkgcwobu
OP2 years agoThanks for giving me a glimmer of hope in an otherwise negative thread 😅 I already went back and forth with 2 different CSR's about this recently to no avail, so probably going to give up on that for now. But i'll revisit it and mention the same talking points you provided in your reply. Thank you!
sin-n-dex
·2 years agoPlease don't give up... my record is 6 hours with phone calls, FB and emails to get a libellous neg removed from someone who shouldn't be leaving feedback... I'm stubborn and will stay up late fighting something like this. Sometimes I've had to make several calls over a few days.
Go through the argument in your head several times... about them being on the BBL, how they shouldn't have been able to buy, circumvented the block to buy, and then left a neg. People on the BBL aren't supposed to be able to buy and your buyer broke the rules to make that purchase. One shouldn't be able to leave a neg breaking the rules.
Also what might help is to talk to some non-eBay people about your situation. In the forum we know rules, read lots of posts and know how CSRs work. Getting a perspective from a non-seller friend about what happened might give you a new perspective on your argument with eBay to get it removed.
C.
inhawaii
·2 years agoI can only say what I would do in your situation.
I would keep trying until I got that feedback removed.
Good luck.
teeky-teek9.6
·2 years agoAnd remember too, that because you have the option to respond APPROPRIATELY to negative feedback, ethical potential buyers will see your point of view and not be deterred from placing their bids. Just remember to respond professionally and not emotionally.
teeky-teek9.6
·2 years agoI have not sold on this platform for a good while, but my first experience dates back to 1998. Ebay has changed so much in the last few years alone - not to mention in the last few decades. It seems all the rules have changed so that they support the buyer on most every issue; sellers are out in the cold. Because ebay is in the business of making money, as is every business, it has found that it's policies must favor the buyer. This is both unfortunate and unfair because what ebay seems to have disregarded is the fact that without sellers there are no buyers. Even more sad is the fact that they seem to have forgotten that the total of their income (profits) comes from sellers. So why do we sellers get the very short end of the stick? Because ebay is confident that sellers will not migrate to the many other selling platforms offered over the last ten or so years - and it seems they have guessed correctly, as more and more new sellers are added to their rolls. The level of customer service has also taken a nosedive compared to what if was when I started - but whose service department hasn't? Getting you off the phone is the priority. Almost nobody truly cares anymore; it's all about a dollar. Sorry for your experience, but don't let it consume or deter you. Just learn, keep going, and make yourself better fortune in the future. Good luck.
hkgcwobu
OP2 years agoI know you're right, and i've seen countless similar stories over the past couple years. it's disappointing but I guess I will just have to learn to let stuff like this go if I want to continue selling on this platform.
asset_liquidators
·2 years agoHave you tried contacting eBay for Business on facebook? I had a similar experience a couple years ago, they looked and saw it was the same buyer using another ID and they took care of it.
monica-sells
·2 years ago"...I talked with an ebay representative on the phone and they confirmed it was the same user (same address and last name on their account), and told me it would be okay to cancel the sale and that the buyer would not be able to leave a negative review..."
to me, this seems off....an ebay CS actually told you this? and then said to "cancel" a legitimate order?
This makes no sense to me.....maybe a more experienced member can chime in...
it troubles me that a CS can pass on that information to "anyone"
hkgcwobu
OP2 years agoYes, the ebay customer service rep confirmed that the address on file for both the blocked account and the "buyers" account was identical. Whether or not they should have told me that is definitely questionable, but I appreciated it at the time. And they did legitimately tell me I can cancel the order without worry, which i clearly understand now was a lie and I agree with the first commenter that they probably just told me that to get me to hang up quicker.
But I can assure you that this was not a legitimate order. It was a seller that I left a neutral review for looking for revenge.
monica-sells
·2 years agoI guess my point (other than the concern of a CS "linking" an account) is that if you would have followed through with the order "by the book", could there still have been the same result?
regardless of the 'advice', it is never good to cancel an order....that leaves you exposed to what happened without any recourse for you.
If you follow thropugh with the order, even with a "false" INAD, you would be able to at least try to have the bad feedback removed if it was inaccurate (based on facts, not hypothesis)
sin-n-dex
·2 years agoDon't leave negs or neutrals with a selling account you use to make purchases. I do block any seller that I'm not happy with to make sure they don't buy from me later. If I'm not happy with them as a seller, I don't want them as a buyer either. But i don't leave bad feedback if I buy with t his account.
C.
sin-n-dex
·2 years agoIf you make enough calls, you'd be surprised what you learned. It's happened a few times something wonky was going on and I called eBay to find out more info and they looked into the buyer's account.
eBay will also tell your buyer if you've placed them on your BBL if they call and ask them why they can't buy. I've been the buyer in this situation once, and I have received messages from people who knew they were actually blocked by me (not just a permission that doesn't permit them to buy).
C.
an-57470
·2 years ago@hkgcwobu
I have been through the exact situation.
I called (US support at the time), and just as in the OP’s case, the CS agent confirmed the same individual owned both the blocked account as well as the account used to circumvent my BBL list.
The CSR only confirmed the accounts owner was the same. They shared no additional information.
The feedback was removed because circumventing a seller’s BBL was (and still is) a policy violation.
OP, keep at it. You are correct. Be sure to mention to the next CSR that it is a policy violation to circumvent the BBL.
rugerskick
·2 years agoIts not a legitimate order. They used another acct to get around him blocking them, solely for the purpose to be able to leave negative feedback. Its not a legitimate order, they made the order to deliberately harm his seller account metrics.
Lets be real here. Ebay has denied sellers leaving legitimate negative feedback for 16 years for fear a few abuse it, this is far worse than that and the seller took steps to prevent the user from buying from him and the buyer deliberately uses a different acct in order to damage the sellers fb ratings. Tell me this should be allowed but genuine negative fb from sellers to buyers cannot be left.