Buyer abuse of return policy
I haven't had to deal with this issue in years and I know things have changed, but can a seller still file an abuse of the return policy complaint? How?
I sold a very expensive model train. I have no way to test it, so I sold it "as is", "untested", "as found", and "Buy it for parts/repair/restoration." The buyer contacted me and said it doesn't work, and they want about two thirds of their money back. I told them that I was sorry they weren't happy, but reminded them that it was clear by the listing that they were buying it as is with no returns. They almost immediately filed a return request claiming not as described (and changed there reasoning for the return). Years ago, the seller had the option to challenge the request, but that doesn't appear to exist any more.
kibble-net
·8 months agoThe buyer may be somewhat unreasonable in this situation, but they are hardly a "scammer".
If you want to avoid this problem in the future, TEST YOUR PRODUCTS or donate them to Goodwill if you aren't willing to.
greenlakesales
·8 months agoI would accept the return right away. I sell a lot of vintage model trains and I get a few requests for partial refunds. More times than not, the customer never returns the item. They are just fishing for a discount. The vast majority of train collectors are good buyers, but there are a few out there that get blocked.
rugerskick
·8 months agoDont do partial refunds.
Seriously, just say, please file a return request, for refund. They will probably file an INAD (item not as described) and you will be taking it back anyways. You can also have ebay contact you and discuss it with them, but they will also say they can return it.
For items like this under the condition area you need to select For Parts or Not Working. You can say untested and all that but the condition status should be For Parts Not Working so its crystal clear they need to presume and know 100% it is being sold as a nonworking item. It might actually work, but you select For Parts Not Working so they can't file an INAD that it doesn't work and therefore, force a return. You need to be precise and clear, and since you cant test it (so it could be broken) it is safest to list For Parts Not Working. Saves you returns and headaches.
simply-the-best-for-you
·8 months ago@kuriouskeepsakes
It's unfortunate that some buyers are less than honest & it's unfortunate that eBay no long adjudicates individual cases, but there is something you can do. First off, you do have to accept & process the return or eBay will do it for you & you'll get a major ding to your account, so definitely do what you have to do.
After you've done that though, you should absolutely report the buyer for their mis-use of returns/dishonesty. Also, you can have eBay call you & explain that you did everything right (I'm assuming you did, I can't see your listing) & b/c of the dishonesty of the buyer, you are out whatever you're out. Hopefully only the shipping costs, but wait to get the return so you know if they actually returned your item & ask how eBay can help you since you did everything right & there's no way to prevent this. Esp if you're only out the shipping costs, they *may* offer you a refund of that amount. I've had it happen.
kuriouskeepsakes
OP8 months agoThanks. I planned on letting him stew for a couple days, then accept the return. Once it's all settled, I'll very carefully and factually update my feedback and help future sellers. I'm not selling much anymore, so I'm not concerned about his feedback.
lakefor94
·8 months ago@kuriouskeepsakes
Good deal. Accept the return and don't worry about it until you get it back.
If he was asking for a partial refund, that might be his whole game, picking your pocket.
He might not send it back and just want to keep it, who knows?
Go ahead and find out.
ten_o_nine
·8 months agoSelling 'as is' online doesn't automatically waive buyer protections. eBay's policies still apply, and 'not as described' claims can override 'as is' listings if the buyer didn't get what they expected.
ryry-jj
·8 months agoAccept the return. Buying for parts is a cop out sellers use to just sell off a broken item on buyers. Even if a buyer understands it's for parts only, what if the part they bought it for is the non working part? You did say "expensive" train, anything expensive is going to be held to a much higher standard & disclosure.
Not sure how you did your listing, but when sellers state "for parts", I feel they better state what parts work and what parts do not work, as well as stating what is missing.
christworks
·8 months agoBingo! In fact, I'll take it a step further: Take a few minutes and make a video showing what the issue is. For instance, tonight I'm listing a vintage Fisher Price record player. The wind-up knob won't lock into place, so I'll make a video to show that. Taking just a few moments to do that goes a long way to protect sellers, because it scares off almost anybody who does want to take advantage.
jdbelt1960
·8 months agoI would have him return it and refund him total.
christworks
·8 months ago@kuriouskeepsakes I looked under your account to find the listing and I can't. Did you actually list it has "used" or "for parts or repair?" It has been a while since I've listed model trains and I cannot recall if the category allows you to list as "for parts or repair."
Buyers can open a return under either, but only have 3 business days to do so on items listed as "for parts or repair." That has to be the condition you select, not just you typing that out in the description. If you sold it as "used," eBay's generic description for "used" items states the item is functional. That overrides anything else you say in the condition statement and/or description. I know some categories do not have a "for parts or repair" option, and it is natural to default to "used." I have done that before, but I also go ahead and offer free returns on that just to reduce the risk of getting a buyer like this. I also message buyers when they buy something that isn't working, just to make sure they understand it does not work. You save a lot of trouble down the line by dealing with it up front.
yourantiqueguy
·8 months agoI haven't listed under this account for a few years. It was clear, "as is", "untested", "as found", "buy it for parts/repair/restoration." My guess is he knew what he was buying, hoped it would be an easy fix and if not, just ask for most of his money back. I don't do partial refunds unless I'm actually wrong. I know I'm pretty much stuck with it back and will have to go to the trouble to resell. I just don't like dealing with scammers.
christworks
·8 months agoI think you are way over the line calling this buyer a scammer.
It doesn't matter how clear you were. If you listed the model train item as used, you are agreeing to eBay's definition to "used," which clearly states that the item is functional. You may not have realized that, given you've not sold in a while and things change, but unfortunately that falls on you. That's your mistake. You'll be making that mistake again if you list it the same way. Stating something is sold "as-is," "untested," and similar language doesn't get you around eBay's Monday Back Guarantee.
You may be right. The buyer may have thought they could have fixed it. That doesn't make them a scammer. If you listed it as "used," that definition is what allows the buyer to file it as INAD. They are playing within the rules.
kuriouskeepsakes
OP8 months agoSorry, I have to disagree. When you buy something "as is" for "parts/repair/restoration", then immediately demand over 2/3 of your money back, specifically because it doesn't run, you're a scammer. If he had asked for 10 or 15% I would have just issued a credit and moved on. But, had I given him what he asked for, after fees and shipping costs, and what I paid for the train, I would have been paying him to keep it. He'll get his return label, then I'll ask eBay to compensate me for my loss, I'll likely lose, and just move on. The reality is that this is why it has become difficult to find decent antiques on eBay.
Here's just one example, about 20 years ago, I listed a Victorian Sterling Silver pin holder and got over 1000 views and it sold for around $150. Three or four years ago I sold another one, almost identical, it got fewer than 50 views and sold for under $30. Some of that can be blamed on changing markets, but a big part of it is due to lack of buyers largely due to lack of sellers all likely due to eBay policies.
EBay total sales have been relatively flat over the past ten years while inflation is up over 30%. That clearly suggests either total number of items is down, or value hasn't kept up with inflation. I certainly don't want to go back 25 years when the sellers were cheating the buyers, the buyers were cheating the sellers, and everyone was cheating eBay; but removing seller protection isn't the answer.
jerseyboymusic
·8 months ago@kuriouskeepsakes
Ebay was different "20 years ago"
These days, the Ebay Money Back Guarantee overrides a seller's "No Return" policy, even on "for Parts/Nonworking" listings.
It's not "abuse"... it's the way Ebay works these days
simply-the-best-for-you
·8 months agoNot necessarily. Not only do lots of buyers not read, but if they shop on a phone, eBay hides the details & unless you know you have to go looking for them, you don't think they exist. So many buyers don't know they have to click on 'see full details' or whatever it says. It's quite possible that they were expecting a working item.
kuriouskeepsakes
OP4 months agoI thought I'd leave a follow-up. EBay eventually removed his negative feedback from my profile, but didn't compensate me for my loss. When I checked the buyers feedback left for others, it appears he has a long history of slamming sellers for condition issues. I can guess that he succeeds in partial refunds most of the time. I noticed that some of the feedbacks that he received from other sellers seemed to have been removed as well. How many seller complaints does it take before eBay takes action? It seems to me that we as sellers need to keep fighting even when we know we're going to lose. If not it will continue and just get worse.
bonanza125
·8 months agoWell "As-Is No Returns" no later applies. If a buyer feels that the item is not as described they can file a case against a seller and Ebay will enforce the refund. You are required to refund that buyer once the item is returned to you. Just refund them when returned and be done with it. Don't report the buyer cause that will lead to nothing. They have rights and they are exercising those rights. Now when you relist the item you can if you haven't done already list condition "For Parts/Not Working" however the buyer is still given 3 days on that. Did you list the condition "For Part/Not Working" or did you list it "USED?" A lot of sellers come in here with this complaint thinking describing the item is the same as listing condition.
kuriouskeepsakes
OP8 months agoI Iisted it "as is", "untested", "as found", "buy it for parts/repair/restoration." I didn't specifically as "not working" because I don't have the right transformer to test it.
hartungcards
·8 months ago"I don't have the right transformer to test it."
All the more reason to just send him a return label. You can relist it and sell it to someone who's not looking for a five-finger discount.
bonanza125
·8 months ago"I Iisted it "as is", "untested", "as found", "buy it for parts/repair/restoration."
Not good enough. You need to list the condition as "For Parts not working." If you list the condition as "USED" You are agreeing to terms with Ebay policy which states that used items are in working condition. You just stated "I didn't specifically as "not working" because I don't have the right transformer to test it." Then you must list it in the proper condition listing.
stuff4divas
·8 months ago@kuriouskeepsakes here is an ebay link u may want to read regarding returns>
https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/shipping/managing-returns
mtgraves7984
·8 months agoYears ago, the seller had the option to challenge the request, but that doesn't appear to exist any more.
@kuriouskeepsakes
You are correct. You'll now be refunding in full for a Not as Described claim. Approve the Return if you'd like it back to resell. Sorry you got a scrub buyer.
hartungcards
·8 months agoWhy are you even thinking about spending the time challenging this? Send him a return label. It's already less than functional, you're not going to get back anything worse than what you sent him. At best, they won't send it back at all. Buyers asking for partial refunds are nothing but trouble. Send him a return label and this is over.