Bullying buyers the new eBay culture now that bots control Feedback
It has become clear to some buyers that asking for something not in the listing has become “part of the culture of Ebay.†This includes things like after purchasing demanding the way items must be shipped together and a new “discounted†invoice sent, asking for a lower price when there is no “make an offer’ available and posting negative feedback when a discount is denied, “I initially asked for a discount which I usually do with other sellers, because that is part of the negotiation culture of Ebay.†This was a Negative feedback comment. I even have had buyers threatening to leave Negative feedback if a price is not lowered, then purchasing an item for full price and giving me negative feedback because the buyer “did not like the tone†of the sellers response “I do not offer discounts thank you for your interestâ€. I see no tone and as a seller the promised Feedback protection is currently handled by bots. If a feedback removal request is placed five minutes later we get an email denying our request with a letter that is sent to everyone in this situation obviously from a bot telling us we can respond to the Feedback. I have no time to defend what happened and that is just Stupid. This is because no human has reviewed the goings on between the buyer and seller. No human actually reads the Feedback. Contacting eBay has become a joke as the customer service can only send the SR to somewhere else where it is ignored. It has become a feedback system controlled by robots not people. I actually am starting to believe SR actually means Services Rejected as zero becomes of SR (service requests) they are never followed up and with all the crazy charges we as sellers pay It has become a place where conduct by buyers has escalated to the point of blocking anyone that asks for anything not in the listing Just as a precaution. I have found that anytime someone even asks for something not in my listings. I simply have to block them or even cancel the transaction claiming the buyer requested a cancellation. I must do so as self protection from abuse, as the buyers clearly expect “special treatment and discountsâ€.
This inappropriate conduct of eBay buyers has gotten way out of hand and the demands are now over the top. First I wish to spend no time negotiating I price as I feel I should everyone gets the same price no favoritism. I wish to pack as I see fit I shipped over 50,000 items in 23 plus years and have had only 2 damaged neither because of my packing. One got stuck on a belt of the USPS and arrived with a pink slip stating it was damaged by the USPS and the other the box was crushed as Media Mail can be a slippery slope with packages weighing up to 70 lbs on the same belt as a 1 lb package. So telling me how I must pack after a purchase will get you an immediate cancellation an refund and once again “the buyer requested a cancellation†. Sellers need to fight back from buyer abuse and I believe we need eBay to protect us. According to eBay
and I quote
What should I do if I think a buyer is making an unreasonable demand?
You're not required to agree to any extras or changes from the terms of your listing. If a buyer is making demands that are not a part of your original listing, you will be protected from negative feedback and defects when you either deliver the item purchased by the buyer according to the original terms of your listing, or cancel the transaction.
To help us identify buyers who are engaging in unacceptable buying behaviors, please report the abusive behavior.
We encourage you to communicate politely and professionally with the buyer.â€
After reading eBay’s “policy†it is a great read however it is clearly a misconception that eBay protects us as SELLERS as some buyers have a different take on what they can ask for and they also use this as a way to manipulate sellers. I’ ve had just about enough, since 2022 I have blocked over 200 buyers that have asked for something not in my listing like a reduced amount, I’ve had buyers claim they want the “student refund†even “ the senior discount†I see no where on eBay where sellers have a policy for this yet I get buyers claiming others give this to them. It has gone way too far and messaging has become trying and at times utterly ridiculous.
There was a time when sellers published a site of usernames that they had blacklisted I believe that started back in 2006 I remember that group of sellers who started the buyer blacklist. It seemingly worked as the buyers were being placed on every sellers list by simply copying and pasting until it hit about 25,000 and scrolling down the list alphabetically became impossible. It would be a full time job for someone just to keep track of the buyer abuse to sellers. There might have been a bad sellers list as well but eBay put a stop to the eBay blacklist the brainchild of a seller who was handicapped and just had no more patience with abuse.
I think that these eBay bots should check each sellers blocked buyer list and when they find a buyer is in multiple lists remove him from eBay. We don’t need buyer protection we need removal of buyers that violate policy. We need a change of the culture that buyers seem to think and I quote from one of them
, “I initially asked for a discount which I usually do with other sellers, because that is part of the negotiation culture of Ebay.â€
chariot_badges
·2 years agoCancel the sale with extreme prejudice.
Place the buyer on your "Iggy List".
Take the hit on your metrics.
Move on.
chapeau-noir
·2 years ago@Anonymous Let it go - how much of your irreplaceable time are you spending on this? Your basic human rights were not violated, you just had an annoying customer. And yes, eBay isn't great with the feedback, but feedback is just an opinion. I can understand being frustrated and annoyed, but you're going to get all kinds dealing with the public.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoEven though the OP continues to tell us (multiple times) what his response was to the buyer's message, his "tone" comes through loud and clear. I have no doubt that the "tone" came through for the buyer too. I feel we're being talked down to and the OP thinks that by repeating his opinion to those who disagree with him, we'll change our minds and come around to his point of view.
@Anonymous
Paragraphs are your friend. They also make reading and understanding your posts easier.
mam98031
·2 years agoI agree for what that is worth. It boggles my mind how many sellers sink to this level. It is as if the character flaws of the buyer has unfortunately rubbed off on the seller, thinking two wrongs make it right!!!
mam98031
·2 years ago@Anonymous
First off, AI does NOT "control" feedback. It is likely because you are upset you have a negative that you can't get removed. The requirement to get a negative removed is that is has to break one of the FB rules. I don't see where that FB breaks any rule. I completely understand and respect that you don't like it, I wouldn't either if it were on my account. But that still does not make it removable.
If you want it removed, search the policies and find one that applies to what the buyer said. If you can find a policy that the buyer clearly broke, then you should contact Ebay with this info in hand and try to get the FB removed. I personally don't think you can find a policy it breaks, but if you believe there is one, this is how you need to handle it.
This feedback would NOT have been removed before Ebay got a bit stricter about removing FB, again because it doesn't break any rule.
an-57470
OP2 years agoFeedback is checked by a bot (my term A.I. as a bot is artificial Intelligence at least the one eBay uses to answer questions. ) When one files to have feedback removed a response was given in less than 5 minutes, not enough time to research a complaint by a human. A form letter arrived just under 5 minutes of my filing. I discussed this with others at customer service and have the SR numbers to prove all conversations. So yes a bot responded. When I got that response I followed the advice (of the form letter response provided by computer)
I also checked this out with a supervisor and it was in fact Computer generated. The user revised feedback upon my request and cut out the language used in his original post which should have been removed as the language also was about as close to being profanity as I have ever experienced in my 23 years here. eBay has just been overwhelmed with complaints about Feedback something that is already come to a Congressional hearing. Having a system that encourages defamation is under fire on many levels. We are seeing Facebook,
‘Instagram, YouTube, and many others under the microscope. Liable is coming to a head and eBay will eventually be forced to Remove comments as well as pay damages once everything hits the fan. This is a flawed system and as eBay thinks it is fine for any opinions that defame the character of a seller to be placed in a Negative comment that is meant to harm their business, they are the party in violation of the new laws about to be passed as to who is responsible. Where the defamation is posted is considered the host and the host must take full responsibility for the damage. If the seller can prove the comment is untrue or a deliberate act. Under the new laws about to be passed eBay will be held responsible for their actions and enabling these comments. Lawsuits are already flying and eBay need wake up to reality as enabling this is going to come back and bite eBay. You may be a volunteer mentor but not everyone is all that liberal and freedom of speech comes with responsibility being irresponsible has damages and this will be something that eventually will destroy the eBay feedback system as the eBay policy is not going to just pass through once the site that encourages defamation is held as a contributing party. It is coming to this and this will be a costly lessen to eBay. I am well aware of the system and it is my opinion that eBay has hidden ant comments from sellers and disabled them that because eBay has permitted the buyer to post Negative comments. This is going to be seen just as it is everywhere else a violation of the civil rights to the seller causing an injustice to the seller. It will be construed as a violation of civil rights and it will cost eBay an intense amount of damages when everything comes to a head. I am following the lawsuits and have been for a few years now. I am not criticizing the user I am concerned about a flawed one way system. No it is not okay to merely permit a response to a Negative post It encourages further problems. Either each party must have the same rights or the system needs to change so that only a scale of stars can be used. This positive Negative structure will be eventually illegal. Don’t say eBay has not been warned they have and. Lawsuits removing Feedback are growing and being tracked. That time is coming . I think that eBay has gone way too far. This is a system that is not doing what it pretends to do. It is a lie It isn’t a rating system as intended. It is a place that permits character assassination. This is a marketplace, in no way should any character name calling or negative comments of any kind be present or permitted. “Tone of voice†pretty hard to prove when I did not speak to the other party. So is the user able to hear how loud typing is? In a court eBay would look pretty stupid. I think I understand the definition of “tone†unfortunately a bit does not. Feedback needs to be about facts not conjecture and you are out of line thinking that it means one has freedom of speech as we already know the consequences of defamation. You are really naive to think that others like myself are unable to get help solving this. I have 23 years invested and I have enough funds to make eBays Feedback system an issue. I have jury cases that already forced Feedback removal. It won’t be hard to start a defamation class. With proof that defamation on eBay has been consistent and one sided. User agreements must be fair to all parties and showing that eBay has stacked it’s user agreement in fab or of one class the buyer over the other the seller is going to be a fun task to show a jury, I don’t care about Negative feedback It makes that user look like a fool. What I do care about is what I have believed in all along that everyone gets the same price, that if I add “make an offer†to a listing I will entertain offers. N-lone should have an edge I am of the school of John Wanamaker I believe strongly in ethics and the one price system. Wanamaker started the second mission in the United States The Sunday Breakfast mission which is now Philly House I support those who are homeless and can’t afford eBay or a computer. I also support fairness to all. This feedback system is not fair and I will do whatever it takes to turn this around they way it should be. You should be ashamed for you have no clue as to why this is an unfair system and you should be on the side that wants to make it fair. That is what mentors are supposed to do. Sorry for the rant but you need someone to rant to set you straight on why this system is flawed. Why it has turned into name calling abusive buyers who think ire is their right . It has nothing to do with rights it is strictly a way to tell others if you got what you paid for. If you did not get what you paid for. The whole idea that character should enter into buyer feedback is out of line. Boxes should be checked off or stars or whatever is clear. That should be the extent of Feedback.
mam98031
·2 years agoI apologize, but I did not read your post. My eyes are old and don't do well with a wall of text. Sorry. I hope you understand.
I did however read the first sentence, thank you, but I'm well aware of what AI stands for. And the only AI that reviews FB is when the automated form is used asking to have FB removed. In contacting Ebay you get real people.
an-57470
OP2 years agoI see no point in responding to any Negative feedback I did however report the buyer.
“Everyone gets the same price. I do not discount thanks for your interest.†My exact comment in response for this buyer asking for a substantial deduction of price. He gives other sellers Negative who refuse to lower their price. He believes this is as he calls it The culture of eBay. 98% of sales are without problem Then there are self pro-ported experts on eBay culture that demand things of leave Negative feedback. Responding to someone like this is worthless Reporting his actions is the best way to keep him in check after others report this buyer he won’t last long.
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoI thought I was having deja vu all over again.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Our-first-amendment-rights-and-freedom-of-petition-Feedback-for/td-p/34407780
mam98031
·2 years agoIt is likely the OP didn't like the answers and/or comments on the other thread, so they thought they would try it again. But of course they are getting the same type of comments.
On the other thread I did notice that @Anonymous said something about Freedom of Speech. That has nothing to do with anything on this site. Members here on the site do not have that right. They have the right to their opinions, but that is NOT Freedom of Speech.
Freedom of Speech = the right to express any opinions without censorship from the Government.
Ebay has every right to set their own rules as they own the site. They have the right to deny members from saying certain things if they breach policy. Which is what it takes to get the FB removed. They have to break policy.
b86fiero
·2 years agoIf you have not yet done so, give some thought before replying to the feedback received.
You might point out that that your price was already the lowest you were able to accept for the item without losing money. You might mention that you do not display the "or best offer" logo so that all of your buyers are dealt with equally. You might mention that your response to the buyer's request was misunderstood.
Don't know what your situation is, but do think about the tone of your reply to the feedback.
an-57470
OP2 years agoI see no point in responding to any Negative feedback I did however report the buyer.
“Everyone gets the same price. I do not discount thanks for your interest.†My exact comment in response for this buyer asking for a substantial deduction of price. He gives other sellers Negative who refuse to lower their price. He believes this is as he calls it The culture of eBay. 98% of sales are without problem Then there are self pro-ported experts on eBay culture that demand things of leave Negative feedback. Responding to someone like this is worthless Reporting his actions is the best way to keep him in check after others report this buyer he won’t last long
luckythewinner
·2 years ago“I initially asked for a discount which I usually do with other sellers, because that is part of the negotiation culture of Ebay.†This was a Negative feedback comment.
That is NOT what the feedback gives as the reason for the negative. The buyer makes it very clear that the issue was the tone of your response to the discount request, not the fact that you denied it.
"Item was as described, however the experience I had with the seller was not the best. I initially asked for a discount which I usually do with other sellers, because that is part of the negotiation culture of Ebay. This seller said no, which isn t a problem. However, during the communication process, I did not like the tone of the seller. So I wouldn t buy from this seller again based on that experience"
IMHO when someone leaves out important information so that their argument does not give the whole story, they undermine their own credibility.
What should I do if I think a buyer is making an unreasonable demand?
The buyer did not make an unreasonable request by asking for a discount because the buyer did not link it to feedback.
an-57470
OP2 years ago“ Everyone gets the same price. I do not discount thanks for your interest.†My exact comment in response for this buyer asking for a substantial deduction of price.
As one who believes in the one price system this is always my response to the users who are I guess the best description “tire kickers†it is simply not part of the “culture of eBay it is part of this particular buyer’s culture and he leaves negative feedback for any seller that will not lower their price. Eventually once enough sellers report his M.O. he will no longer be a buyer.
an-57470
OP2 years agoThere is no culture that allows a buyer to ask for a discount and after not getting one leaves Negative feedback. That is the point. Unless an item states make an offer a seller is never obligated to change a listing.
My track now is simply to block any user that asks for a discount. I do not need to respond at all why take a chance that I can get a negative feedback just for refusing to discount my listings.
baantiques
·2 years agoThat feedback conveys that the buyer is an entitled loser who didn't like being told no, and left that feedback as a retaliation. There is no "negotiation culture" on Ebay. Once you agree to pay full price you pay full price.
To the OP, you're going to run into entitled losers like your buyer, unfortunately all you can do is respond professionally to the feedback and block and move on.
dhbookds
·2 years agoThe feedback doesn't dispute your right to decline to provide a discount, it takes umbrage with your "tone" in doing so.......I would guess Ebay won't remove it.....
an-57470
OP2 years agoBuyer bought the item after being told “ Everyone gets the same price. I do not discount thanks for your interest.†Pretty simple and straight forward no tone from me. Then bought the item and left negative feedback. Personally his comment makes him look like an idiot. He clearly shows just how annoying a buyer can be. It also clearly shows he is part of what he calls The culture of eBay. Unfortunately that is his culture but not eBay’s culture. As a seller I believe in the one price system, everyone gets the same price. I find giving discounts is just unfair to others. If I wanted to negotiate I would simply use the auction system to determine the price.
farmalljr
·2 years agoLol. If you think you are going to "get even" cancelling orders using the fake "buyer requested cancellation", I can assure you that your account will not be useable very long. eBay takes great offense to sellers cancelling orders for made up reasons. They will ban you and not think twice. Just as easily that a seller can report a buyer, buyers can report sellers just as easy. And I can assure you that eBay will be quicker to take actions on a seller then the other way around.
If you don't want to deal with what the culture is like selling here, no one is FORCING you to sell here. If you start cancelling orders because you want to have a hissy fit with buyers, you won't have an option to sell in the future when eBay ban hammers you.
Asking for discounts, making offers and bargaining are the norm on this platform. It's been that way forever.
an-57470
OP2 years agoBuyers that make demands after a purchase not in a listing is a violation of policy
I have only two choices Accept abuse and a Negative feedback for refusing to accept their demands, Report them, then block them. This means refusing to complete the sale or I can lose money, on costs, on time packing and shipping by going along with their termsâ€. Personally I get it you side with those buyers but you are wrong.
sellers are protected when a buyer demands something not in the listing. I can not ship to them nor will I unless they abide by the terms of my listing. I am certainly not giving them a refund or getting Negative feedback just because they threaten this. That isn’t part of the eBay culture. I have 23 years here and have sold 50,000 items and abusive buyers are an ongoing problem. You may be a rockstar here but if you think this culture is acceptable think again.
Buyers have no “super†rights There is no “culture†here, just a user agreement. If you violate this as a buyer and are reported for doing so enough times it is you that will vanish. I have 23 years seeing many buyers banished here. The problem is people like you who support the idea that eBay is a flea market. There are sellers that take their merchandise seriously and will not bend to demands not in their listings. I’ve blocked lots of buyers for demanding something not in my listings and would encourage others to do the same. It is the belief that buyers control a culture of harassing sellers by demanding how they pack what they need to do and how much they need to take for an item. That is a lot of hogwash. Everyone gets the same price and the same treatment those who think they are privileged get reported and there is a whole group of longtime sellers who do business the same way. No favoritism no discounts or else is just unacceptable.
farmalljr
·2 years agoLMAO. When its YOUR platform, you can set the "culture" all you want. eBay has held buyers over sellers for a very long time. Just because you sell in a bubble, doesn't mean you aren't going to be subject to what happens. It's the same thing with chargebacks. There are some sellers who have never experienced it, well, until it happens. Then they come running here complaining and whining, in a similar fashion as you did.
Rules have recently change to stop sellers from getting feedback removed. eBay enforces whatever rules they SELECTIVELY feel like enforcing. One theme is consistent though, eBay WILL boot a seller at the drop of a hat. So please, go ahead and start cancelling orders, then you can come running back here complaining how eBay booted a 20 year seller for no good reason. You are just another one of those "GET OFF MY LAWN" sellers. You think that you get to set the rules, and that what you want and expect are above what eBay allows.
You agreed to the TOS that basically said you authorize eBay to do whatever it wants. That means they can enforce whatever rules that want, and basically allow buyers to do whatever they want so long as eBay looks the other way. Report buyers to your heart's content. Rarely do buyers get banned. Even when they do, all they have to do is buy as a guest or start another account. If you lose your selling account, you'll never be able to start another one.
mam98031
·2 years ago"Buyers that make demands after a purchase not in a listing is a violation of policy " Yes this is true IF it was a "demand". Asking for a discount is not a Demand, it is a question. By the way the buyer worded their FB they didn't demand anything.
However, if you can prove this with the emails that the buyer sent you in Ebay, then you are right it is a policy violation and the FB should be removable.
Show use exactly what the buyer email said. That will help us all to help you.