Attempted scam by freight forwarder customer...
So I sold an inexpensive set of coins. It was delivered July 5.
This morning I get a message from the buyer telling me they want to know who received it because they haven't received anything yet. I'm prepared to tell this buyer to hang in there until tomorrow and I'll do a missing mail inquiry and look into it, but then I figure out pretty quickly it was a freight forwarder. These guys get bags of mail, and likely it's there somewhere, so no, I won't do any inquiries in this case.
The customer's message suggests I delivered a package to their house (where a neighbour might have received it) but they're in some other country, so how do they know if the freight forwarder has it or not. The package shows it was delivered there, and I attached a copy of the mailing label for the buyer to see where it went (in the event eBay had an incorrect address).
It's a small value item, in the category of "I'm sorry you didn't get it" refund and move on. But if someone's using a freight forwarder I'm not issuing any refunds on their say so that the package wasn't delivered. They aren't at that address, so how would they know?
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gedney
·3 years agoI have added a stipulation to my listings stating that a buyer using a freight forwarder should NOT pay until they receive MY invoice because I will need to confirm via GOGGLE that this is a real business with a legit address. I had one last week where the address was real but the map feature showed an old house in the middle of a heavy equipment storage yard. This guy got a cancelled order, a refund, a block from any more of my auctions, and I still have my items.
sin-n-dex
OP3 years agoI don't bother to investigate this stuff, I don't have time for that. But I will aggressively fight against anyone who tries to scam me. I don't always get to keep my money, but I don't make it easy for a scammer to get a refund. I often like to keep them waiting until the last possible minute before I issue it (before eBay steps in). I might know I have no choices, but I don't have to be fast to refund. Delaying sometimes gives me some time to get my ducks in order anyway.
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iamalwaysright
·3 years agoI would do, and have done, exactly the same thing in this situation in addition to telling the buyer to check with their freight forwarder and not me. Sometimes they would reply to say that it's difficult to get a hold of someone to talk to with their freight forwarder and I should know specifically which person the package was dropped off to. In those cases I get assertive and just repeat myself that it isn't any easier for ME to contact their freight forwarder, it's not like I live next door to them and know who picks up packages there.
Btw, some have said that if an INR is filed, you'll automatically win it when escalated. Is this true now for freight forwarders? I recall the last info I heard was about the tracking status for F-forwarders, how they never show as "delivery completed" anymore. I remember the furthest it says is "delivered to agent" and there was some glitch that the ebay bots didn't recognize that status as completed delivery so the seller would lose and have to manually contact ebay to get those cases appealed in the seller's favor. Is this no longer the case and ebay finally fixed the glitch?
sin-n-dex
OP3 years agoIn Canada, you'd never be able to call a business to discuss another customer's issues, unless of course the agent taking the call was untrained in privacy laws. We are very big on our privacy in Canada, and it's an easy out for why I won't undertake any investigations for my customers (outside of the missing mail thing, that goes to the buyer's post office and they email a confirmation on what happened with that package, which I do see as my responsibility since I'm the actual USPS customer).
I have a blocked customer (who was sending items to a friend in California) buy with his other account to ship to a freight forwarder in Delaware. I did not block the second account because his method for scamming doesn't work when a freight forwarder is involved (and if he tries with the second account, I'll do my best to get both accounts booted, it's worked before). This goof didn't realize I figured all that out, and found out who he really is using the friend's info in California. I keep what I figure out to myself, you never know what some nut will do to your selling account if you're figuring out how they scam people. What helps is 10 years worth of email in my mailbox to search through, most people are repeat buyers.
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ms.rodriguez*
·3 years agoI disagree. Ethical or not, the seller sent to the address provided by the buyer. He chose that freight forwarder. The item arrived at the freight forwarder. IF the place is full of thieves or morons and failed to deliver the item to the buyer, it is NOT the seller's fault at all. The sellers owes NOTHING to the buyer except to tell them to speak with the folks at the freight forwarder because they are the ones responsible for getting the item to the buyer's country.
This has nothing to do if the seller is ethical or not. I would not refund a cent.
sin-n-dex
OP3 years agoPackage was delivered on July 5, on July 8 buyer is messaging me to ask about it's delivery. Buyer knows they gave me the freight forwarder's address and that's where it's going, so telling me they didn't receive it yet is obvious, not enough time has passed to determine if it's arrived at their location or not... It's like the scammers who do a chargeback in Paypal on day 4 after shipping, and then say "the mail only takes two days, since more than two days have past, it must be lost, so I want a refund." (Realistically they did the chargeback on day 4 because that's the day the package got there.. these were canadian orders, so they went without tracking and were minor cost items, but still, same principle). I find all scammers seem to use the same type of dialect.
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femmefan1946
·3 years agohttps://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210#specialcoverage-inr
Discussion with @velvet@ebay
An ethical seller would refund the payment, less shipping costs, eBay fees, and international payment processing fees.
But it's my belief that eBay will not require any refund.
Hi @femmefan1946! You're correct in that a refused package is on the buyer and not the sellers responsibility to refund. As long as tracking shows the package was refused, then we would side with a seller if the buyer opened an Item Not Received claim.
I agree that I would not withhold all the money, but it is up to the seller if they would like to withhold shipping, refund the buyer entirely, or keep it all. If the seller is okay with refunding the buyer entirely and being out the shipping costs, then they can cancel the transaction using the buyer requested option since in essence, they did by refusing the package. If the seller wants to retain the shipping costs, then they can message the buyer a heads up (not a requirement but a nice thing to do) and then refund them partially through this flow here.
Velvet,

sin-n-dex
OP3 years agoNo one refused a package... it was delivered to the freight forwarder (if I rely on tracking to indicate this). The buyer has no way of knowing if it got there or not, except seeing the same tracking I can see.
Also you cannot cancel due to problem with address once you ship it off... I had ones coming back here that had the wrong address and such, and the cancel for problem with address option is gone. I used INR because that's the closest to what actually happened (and doing that did not give me any defects).
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Unavailable member
·3 years agoDon’t discount a simple misunderstanding. Buyer might have seen that the item shows delivered, and somehow thinks that means delivered to his house. I’d explain the process to the buyer - he should receive separate tracking from the freight forwarder.
sin-n-dex
OP3 years agoI don't ever treat a suspected scammer like I think they're a scammer.. I answer as if they really don't know and actually need answers. That way if they're not a scammer, I did my part to provide good customer service, and if they are a scammer, I handled it professionally the same.
I did explain to the buyer the package went to a freight forwarder and that company is responsible to for shipping their item abroad to where they live, and to contact their freight forwarder for any shipping related inquiries now that it's been delivered there.
I never heard back from the buyer after I replied July 8 morning. So either I answered their question (if it was a real question), or I averted a potential scam if they were fishing for a fast refund. I did find that a lot of my competition who is high volume refunds indiscriminately on small value items rather than spend time looking into what happened to it to find out it was delivered properly (or not).
I had a particularly bad scammer a year ago and contacted some of the other sellers he bought from (all high volume) and they all said the same thing, they don't know anything about it, he says he didn't get it, so they just issued a refund and moved on with the next order.
I will spend my evening investigating a claim to avoid refunding $10 to a potential scammer. Every time I get a very bad scammer, I waste a few days dealing with the issues they cause (doesn't always let me keep my money, but sometimes there's feedback to deal with). I think my record was spending 5 nights in a row dealing with one horrible feedback left each day (for each item bought, I'd get rid of the FB and he'd leave another). This scammer was so horrible, I googled him and found out he's a convicted pedophile (uncommon name, city was where he lived, no doubt it was the same guy). It wasn't over very much money, but telling all my future customers I'm a "disgusting liar" really ticked me off (enough that I'd google him... I've only done that a few times with scammers).
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duncanvr
·3 years agoIt shows delivered then you did your part do not refund freight forwarder addresses. Why is the buyer simply not using their own postal address? If they raise a claim fight it all the way. Even though its not much value I think sellers should not simply refund these buyers, every $ ads up and every loss ads up to. I would tell the buyer to contact their freight forwarder and its out of your hands.
joseh1445
·3 years agoI had some thing similar happen last week. But with a twist. The buyer provided an old address to the Freight Forwarder. I ship to the address provided by buyer. Shipped on June 26, as of now, it still in transit.
I told the buyer to contact the Freight Forwarder last week, with their issue (Old address provided by Freight Forwarder). As of now I have not received a reply.
femmefan1946
·3 years agoIn any case, because the buyer used a forwarder, he is not covered by most of the MBG.
And if he claims NAD, the seller only need send the return shipping to the address supplied - the forwarder.
Nyah nyah nyah ne nyah nyah scammer!
traditonalproducts
·3 years agoIf you shipped to a freight forwarder, your customer has yet to receive. Something is missing here.
soh.maryl
·3 years agoThere is not anything "missing". Tracking shows delivery to the address eBay provided which is that of a freight forwarder. That's all that's needed from the seller's standpoint.
sin-n-dex
OP3 years agoThe customer is a scammer. They're pretending I shipped to a house of someone in the US...
No reply from them since I pointed out it went to a freight forwarder and then it will be sent to them in their country. (I'm sure they knew this, were fishing for a refund... it was only $10, but I don't care, I don't refund unless I have to).
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albertabrightalberta
·3 years agoTell the buyer to open a claim for INR. When you receive notice, respond with the tracking number in the appropriate field and in the comments section, add "USPS records for tracking number (fill in the blank) show that it was delivered on (date) at (time) to the freight forwarder in (city,state)."
Within a few days, ebay will close the case in your favor.
sin-n-dex
OP3 years agoMy response seemed to shut them down. They never replied to my email this morning where I told them to take it up with the place it was sent (where I called them on the fact it went to a freight forwarder, not their house like they were trying to imply).
I would have looked into it if it went to a house, if for no other reason but then to help a buyer who potentially had their item misdelivered (it's a 50/50 turnout whether it's misdelivered or I'm being scammed).
Since it went to a freight forwarder and shows as delivered in the zipcode, I'm doing nothing.
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fab_finds4u
·3 years agoA copy of a mailing label isn't proof it was delivered.
Do you have a tracking number to the address eBay provided that says delivered?
If so your job is done. Give them the tracking number and tell them they have to find out what happened to it after it was delivered there.
sin-n-dex
OP3 years agoThe tracking number added when I printed the label is proof that it has been delivered somewhere (in that zipcode). The address label with the same tracking number is proof of where it was sent.
After that, I seem to have shut the scammer down. It's been quiet over here all day long.
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rfmtm
·3 years agoAs long as you uploaded tracking that shows it was delivered to the forwarder, you're protected. It is now between the buyer and the forwarder to straighten out.