Anyone else seeing these changes to Promoted Listings on View Item Page?

Posted 3 years ago·Last reply 3 years ago

85 comments

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Business-Seller-Board/Impressions-broken-again/m-p/7461055#M298377

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques - officially from the horse's mouth (Dave) over on the UK boards.

There was some testing of new features which affected impressions. Testing on Promoted listings took place between 18th and 28th July and during this time some of our members may have noticed a different experience.

This has now been completely stopped and the impressions will return to their normal patterns.

We have been passing all the feedback from this thread to the promoted listings team and your feedback will help shape future updates.

@elizabeth@ebay I know eBay doesn't typically announce tests, but since this one had such an impact on seller stats and there were so many threads about the drops in impressions...I'd highly recommend and humbly suggest eBay should post a sticky announcement here in the community and a banner announcement in Seller Hub (Ad Dashboard and Traffic Reports pages at the very least) with something similar to Dave's statement above.

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Business-Seller-Board/Impressions-broken-again/m-p/7456663#M297874

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques FYI - a seller in that UK thread says they have had confirmation from the ads team on a zoom call that there was/is in fact a test going on....whether that's true or not of course we have no way of knowing, but I don't have any reason to doubt them either.

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Business-Seller-Board/Impressions-broken-again/m-p/7457268#M297942

"I have spoke to the ads team. The idea behind the beta test is to reduce overall impressions, but make the impressions gained more likely to convert. The ads team do not believe that this beta test has reduced sales - Our sales figures do not agree with this.

It is not possible to be removed from the test as they have now confirmed that it is product based and not seller based (Obviously, sellers who sell a specific type of product that is part of the test will be seeing a bigger drop). Test is due to finish August 7th."

eBayUK "blue" Dave has said he's trying to confirm and get more information, and they were giving him a pretty hard time about it in their chat this week too.

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Chat-with-the-eBay-Community/Weekly-Chat-with-the-eBay-Community-Team-02-08-23-2pm/td-p/7457531

@kyle@ebay @devon@ebay @elizabeth@ebay @adsteam@ebay - can you please coordinate with Dave in the UK and any other appropriate teams and provide some actual answers for everyone involved?

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@valueaddedresource Thanks for keeping us all posted.

"The idea behind the beta test is to reduce overall impressions, but make the impressions gained more likely to convert."

That was my thought when I first saw this....this is less about reducing the cluttered page (although that is part of it) and more about trying to be more selective, to make sure the "most likely to convert" items (as determined by the algo) are front and center.

I hope we get a response from the community team/ads team now.

elizabeth@ebay

Admin3 years ago

Communtiy Advisor0 View listings

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@valueaddedresource Thanks for keeping us all posted.

"The idea behind the beta test is to reduce overall impressions, but make the impressions gained more likely to convert."

That was my thought when I first saw this....this is less about reducing the cluttered page (although that is part of it) and more about trying to be more selective, to make sure the "most likely to convert" items (as determined by the algo) are front and center.

I hope we get a response from the community team/ads team now.

Hi @my-cottage-books-and-antiques. Let us touch base with the proper team on this, and we'll provide you with an update once we hear back.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

Thanks @elizabeth@ebay Hope to hear something soon!

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Business-Seller-Board/Impressions-broken-again/m-p/7455303#M297710

Just to add more fuel to the fire here - I'm also no longer seeing the "test" on listings on the UK site and sellers on that thread on the UK boards are also reporting impressions going back up today.

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques just fyi, today I'm not seeing any listings with the full "tons" of PL ads and other items below the description.

Chrome logged in, Chrome incognito and Firefox incognito are all showing me the 2 rows of PL above and the 25 "You May Also Like" organic* below.

Firefox logged in is showing me the 2 rows of PL above and no PL or organic other items below.

mcdougle4248

·3 years ago

@valueaddedresource wrote:
@my-cottage-books-and-antiques just fyi, today I'm not seeing any listings with the full "tons" of PL ads and other items below the description.

Chrome logged in, Chrome incognito and Firefox incognito are all showing me the 2 rows of PL above and the 25 "You May Also Like" organic* below.

Firefox logged in is showing me the 2 rows of PL above and no PL or organic other items below.

What you are describing seeing today I saw yesterday using Chrome and Firefox logged in and incognito.

Today, I am seeing the 2 rows of PL above and the rows and rows of PL below. One exception, a seller that has a 10% off promotion running only had the promotion banner below with no other rows of PL. ETA, this seller did have the two rows of PL above the fold.

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

so i take it still no response/word from our platform on the matter?

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

Still not yielding normal, yesterday ended at just shy of 16K on PLS, better then was, makes me wonder if what ever they actually did that there will be a new (lower) impressions daily result normal.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

https://www.ebay.com/explore?component=lex6aspects-5-items&item_id=325695571311&algos=HOMESPLICE.SIM.SimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithLambda85KnnRecallV1V4ItemNrtInQueryAndCassiniVisualRankerAndBertRecall&placement_title=i18n.Title_Promoted_Listing

@valueaddedresource @nuclearomen @mcdougle4248

A couple days ago, on this thread I suggested:

"If they want to reduce some of the seller pushback about the crowded View Item Page, and if they want to reduce the modules to 2 on the page, they might want to consider a first module showing "similar items from this seller" organically, with a "see more" that would open with two tiers, one with organic similar items from the seller, and one below it of similar promoted listings from other sellers. The second module could be "related sponsored items" and the "see more" could be as now, with top tier sponsored , below that organic."

I'm sure this is coincidence, and it is not exactly what I had in mind, but it is a step in that direction. I'm still seeing two modules on a listing, between the top of the page and description. I just clicked on the first module's "See All" and instead of showing me 2 modules, it showed me three...the firs sponsored listings from other sellers, the last non-sponsored listings, and in between: sponsored listings from the seller of the original listing I was viewing when I clicked on the "See All"

So instead of a total of 50 on the see all page there are 75 (25 per module), but 25 of them are the sellers own listings.

I got the same result when I clicked the "See All" for the second module.

Here's a link to what I was seeing, but since its a test, I'm not sure if it will show for everyone:

And here's a screen shot of the seller's module (but note, the apostrophe is in the wrong place, isn't it?

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques idk how you linked to just suggested page, but anyways... as usual with tests like this on listings (same thing was true when they were testing the new photo layout) it doesn't show on all listings/categories with away and depends how one is viewing, logged in not in incog, logged out etc... I was seeing the same no change for amount of ads on my own listings yesterday (didn't check today) but the lower ads did not say "sponsored" as mentioned so they must have been organic or halo adds.

In all seriousness, i really don't care what they show or how many, likely would if I was strictly a buyer, but i'm not, more or less strictly a seller. All I care about is that my time and investment of PLS and elections are being put to work. I have done the PL since they started, they have gone through countless changes, evolutions, good and bad, caused horrid selling periods and stellar selling periods. They went from only a few sales per month having PL fee to basically every sale having the PL fee attached...and know what? I don't care. Really, I don't, not anymore. ALL i care about is that sales continue and stay steady - to whatever extent PL pushing them I don't care. I am a very calculated seller, I don't lose money or profit because I factor everything in the prices and I evaluate those prices when fees raise etc... and sometimes I make no change and swallow the extra. Past few months have been rather horrid for what is normal for me, but even then I still made sales. I'm really at the point anymore I just don't give a crud as long as making sales and my items are being seen / able to be searched etc... Go this seems every month anymore with "something ebay has done to PL..." spend time and effort trying to adjust and what ever else the circus demands - kinda sick of it. This company has horrid transparency and they cause more chaos then is necessary because of it.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@nuclearomen I was an early adopter of PLS, and still use it...but I'm doing more experimenting with it, and that's one reason I try to keep up with what ebay is actually doing with it. I don't hate PLS as some seem to. I think it can be useful. But for me, it's useful to understand it.

But I see your point---you sell in a tight niche, and that is very different from selling a variety of unrelated stuff.

Most of my stuff has nice margins, so I usually have wiggle room whether it is to pay a higher PLS fee or to accept a lower offer, or whatever. But most of my stuff doesn't sell quickly, and so I need to consider that even strong margins can't make up for poor sales velocity.

Anyway, at this point I'm just hoping ebay will eventually respond here. It would certainly save me some time and effort. LOL

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques I don't so much "hate" PLs, but it definitely changed the game of selling here more and more as time went on, can't argue that! I don't elect their insane rates, but I don't do minimal either, and I don't mind paying them as long as sale happen.

It would be nice when they make major changes to give at least a heads up they are testing something completely new and will effect certain things, at least then don't have to run around post all day long trying to figure it out.

mcdougle4248

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques

I am not seeing the same display as your screenshot when using the link you provided. It looks like this is another test or it may be possible that different users are being shown different modules depending on their previous search history (just a guess).

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@mcdougle4248 Agree. It could be a test, or ,as ebay confirmed previously, different users are shown different modules as part of the regular operation.

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
@valueaddedresource @nuclearomen @mcdougle4248
A couple days ago, on this thread I suggested:

"If they want to reduce some of the seller pushback about the crowded View Item Page, and if they want to reduce the modules to 2 on the page, they might want to consider a first module showing "similar items from this seller" organically, with a "see more" that would open with two tiers, one with organic similar items from the seller, and one below it of similar promoted listings from other sellers. The second module could be "related sponsored items" and the "see more" could be as now, with top tier sponsored , below that organic."

I'm sure this is coincidence, and it is not exactly what I had in mind, but it is a step in that direction. I'm still seeing two modules on a listing, between the top of the page and description. I just clicked on the first module's "See All" and instead of showing me 2 modules, it showed me three...the firs sponsored listings from other sellers, the last non-sponsored listings, and in between: sponsored listings from the seller of the original listing I was viewing when I clicked on the "See All"

So instead of a total of 50 on the see all page there are 75 (25 per module), but 25 of them are the sellers own listings.

I got the same result when I clicked the "See All" for the second module.

Here's a link to what I was seeing, but since its a test, I'm not sure if it will show for everyone:
https://www.ebay.com/explore?component=lex6aspects-5-items&item_id=325695571311&algos=HOMESPLICE.SIM.SimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithLambda85KnnRecallV1V4ItemNrtInQueryAndCassiniVisualRankerAndBertRecall&placement_title=i18n.Title_Promoted_Listing

And here's a screen shot of the seller's module (but note, the apostrophe is in the wrong place, isn't it?

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques that link for me currently brings up 2 "Similar Sponsored Items" sections and 1 "Similar Items" section for a total of 75....with lots of duplicates between the different sections.

I didn't check to see if some of those were from the same seller or not, but there wasn't a dedicated "Seller's Other Sponsored Items" section.

eBay used to have one of the modules on the View Item page as Sellers Other Sponsored Items and it was actually a big reason some sellers begrudgingly used PL - it was one way to reclaim at least some of the real estate on the listing.

They stopped doing that late last year and now some of the ads may be the seller's own items but it's no longer guaranteed, so it's interesting to see that they may be testing that idea again in a slightly different way.

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@valueaddedresource wrote:
eBay used to have one of the modules on the View Item page as Sellers Other Sponsored Items and it was actually a big reason some sellers begrudgingly used PL - it was one way to reclaim at least some of the real estate on the listing.

They stopped doing that late last year and now some of the ads may be the seller's own items but it's no longer guaranteed, so it's interesting to see that they may be testing that idea again in a slightly different way.

yup, that was why I originally used them also, however, many of many of my listings still show majority my listings on that first row of Sponsored ads, that goes back to how many items in a category a seller has in the pool - but it's not "random" like use to be in selection, it seems to pulled those selections from title keywords. So many of my listings you'll notice the band name and album title, then variant/edition and format, then I cross reference many of those with similar bands, those are typically the ones that appear there on that first row after photos/price.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

An interesting variation: I looked at one of my own listings. I have a PLS campaign going on now, but not all my listings are in it (about 500 are). ebay did show me the "Sellers' Other Sponsored Listings" but showed me only 3, not 25....apparently, though the title doesn't say the items must be related or similar, it appears the algo wants some relationship.

Unfortunately for store sellers, there is an inevitable tension that arises : does ebay take a listing-centric approach (which PLS certainly is), or do they take a store/seller approach (helping sellers build their "brand", a repeat customer base, etc). Perhaps ebay is finally trying to strike more of a balance by recognizing that a heavily listing-centric approach undermines a seller's ability to build his business. It's kind of like asking: Is eBay WalMart, a store with a lot of different brands being sold in the store, but basically a business that is about selling items, or a mall , where the mall is about helping the stores succeed, but the mall itself isn't selling the items in those stores. ebay is somewhere in between, but, especially with PLs, has been leaning heavily to being more WalMart than mall....

mcdougle4248

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques

My PL impressions are much higher today. I am still seeing two modules of promoted listings above the item specifics and 25 "You May Also Like" listings that appear organic below the feedback. I really have no idea what is going on, just thought I would share.

Screenshot 2023-07-22 144306.jpg

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

Thanks! Maybe it was just a reporting error. Still, it would be nice to hear from ebay...

mcdougle4248

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques

I agree. One of the Blues could at least pop in and reply, even if it is a no information to share kind of reply.

simply-the-best-for-you

·3 years ago

This One Goes to Eleven - Nigel Tufnel5986 View listings

@mcdougle4248 wrote:
@my-cottage-books-and-antiques

My PL impressions are much higher today. I am still seeing two modules of promoted listings above the item specifics and 25 "You May Also Like" listings that appear organic below the feedback. I really have no idea what is going on, just thought I would share.

Interesting. I just checked mine & it's up slightly, but still hovering around 1/2 of normal.

Thanks @valueaddedresource at the reminder of how to find the Halo items, I couldn't remember either. I checked the last 3 months & I get typically 1 per month. Though almost all my items sell via PL or what they call "direct".

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@simply-the-best-for-you same, mine reached just shy of 14K yesterday, bit better but still like half

mcdougle4248

·3 years ago

@nuclearomen wrote:
@simply-the-best-for-you same, mine reached just shy of 14K yesterday, bit better but still like half

My PL impressions shot up to almost 54,000 yesterday, which is very unusual for me. I did not make any adjustments to the PL campaign, so I have no idea if this sudden increase in PL impressions is a display issue, reporting issue, or something entirely different.

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@mcdougle4248 wrote:
@nuclearomen wrote:
@simply-the-best-for-you same, mine reached just shy of 14K yesterday, bit better but still like half
My PL impressions shot up to almost 54,000 yesterday, which is very unusual for me. I did not make any adjustments to the PL campaign, so I have no idea if this sudden increase in PL impressions is a display issue, reporting issue, or something entirely different.

@mcdougle4248 i don't think so, usually, when something is a glitch in stats you can cross check that with other stats, charts etc... I did that, went to Performance and Sales and the figures there for each bar were showing me the same daily totals as the PL graft. Whatever happened wasn't a glitch, it was intentional internal change, but what that involves completely no one knows, all guesses.

mcdougle4248

·3 years ago

@nuclearomen wrote:
@mcdougle4248 wrote:
@nuclearomen wrote:
@simply-the-best-for-you same, mine reached just shy of 14K yesterday, bit better but still like half
My PL impressions shot up to almost 54,000 yesterday, which is very unusual for me. I did not make any adjustments to the PL campaign, so I have no idea if this sudden increase in PL impressions is a display issue, reporting issue, or something entirely different.

@mcdougle4248 i don't think so, usually, when something is a glitch in stats you can cross check that with other stats, charts etc... I did that, went to Performance and Sales and the figures there for each bar were showing me the same daily totals as the PL graft. Whatever happened wasn't a glitch, it was intentional internal change, but what that involves completely no one knows, all guesses.

Yes, I crossed checked the Traffic graphs and the Advertising Dashboard and the PL impressions data is the same on both. You are right, all I can do is guess about what happened yesterday. It will be interesting to see what today brings.

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@valueaddedresource the only change to PL was suppose to be the inclusion of PLD into PLS - even though that was already active before the update, they were suppose to update the campaign pages, but they haven't, I started a new campaign 2 days ago (fixed, i don't do their insane rates).

It would still not make sense (or pay much) for them to remove sponsored ads and replace with organic, and then keep the same amount of ads on the listings... i mean in a ebay view, those ads aren't making them extra. Halo ads wouldn't work well in the scenario because they know most items are not searched but found on listings through the ads, in order to make it halo, one has to visit a listing on the sponsored and then they say it was halo when they click any other prompted listings organic ad

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

@nuclearomen wrote:
@valueaddedresource the only change to PL was suppose to be the inclusion of PLD into PLS - even though that was already active before the update, they were suppose to update the campaign pages, but they haven't, I started a new campaign 2 days ago (fixed, i don't do their insane rates).

It would still not make sense (or pay much) for them to remove sponsored ads and replace with organic, and then keep the same amount of ads on the listings... i mean in a ebay view, those ads aren't making them extra. Halo ads wouldn't work well in the scenario because they know most items are not searched but found on listings through the ads, in order to make it halo, one has to visit a listing on the sponsored and then they say it was halo when they click any other prompted listings organic ad

@nuclearomen but that's the thing, with what we are seeing here, eBay is *not* keeping the same amount of ads on the listing.

The most important part of what we are seeing here, imo, is the changes to what is shown below the feedback module - the typical experience has been that area usually has 70+ other items (if you count the scrolling modules) with multiple rows of various PL groupings as well as maybe some organic rows.

What we have been noticing the last few days is that, depending on browser/login or incognito etc., there may be 0 other items (either PL or organic) shown below the feedback module or alternatively there may be 25 other items (no scrolling carousels) that appear to all be organic (You May Also Like).

So in theory, any time someone is seeing that experience vs the typical one, we're talking ~50-70+ less impressions on other listings - the question remains whether or not this is a widespread change that could potentially be at least a contributing factor in the drops in impressions people are seeing the last few days.

In all versions, the typical PL ad rows above the description are still there, so it's not like they have gotten rid of them completely - just the ones that are lower down the page and are probably less likely to actually have been being viewed any way if buyers didn't scroll down that far.

So the thought is maybe they are testing keeping the presumably higher value/higher converting ads further up the page but removing some or all of the ads further down and either not showing any items or showing fewer items that are presumably organic (but may also be halo).

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@valueaddedresource wrote:
@nuclearomen wrote:
@valueaddedresource the only change to PL was suppose to be the inclusion of PLD into PLS - even though that was already active before the update, they were suppose to update the campaign pages, but they haven't, I started a new campaign 2 days ago (fixed, i don't do their insane rates).

It would still not make sense (or pay much) for them to remove sponsored ads and replace with organic, and then keep the same amount of ads on the listings... i mean in a ebay view, those ads aren't making them extra. Halo ads wouldn't work well in the scenario because they know most items are not searched but found on listings through the ads, in order to make it halo, one has to visit a listing on the sponsored and then they say it was halo when they click any other prompted listings organic ad
@nuclearomen but that's the thing, with what we are seeing here, eBay is *not* keeping the same amount of ads on the listing.

The most important part of what we are seeing here, imo, is the changes to what is shown below the feedback module - the typical experience has been that area usually has 70+ other items (if you count the scrolling modules) with multiple rows of various PL groupings as well as maybe some organic rows.

What we have been noticing the last few days is that, depending on browser/login or incognito etc., there may be 0 other items (either PL or organic) shown below the feedback module or alternatively there may be 25 other items (no scrolling carousels) that appear to all be organic (You May Also Like).

So in theory, any time someone is seeing that experience vs the typical one, we're talking ~50-70+ less impressions on other listings - the question remains whether or not this is a widespread change that could potentially be at least a contributing factor in the drops in impressions people are seeing the last few days.

In all versions, the typical PL ad rows above the description are still there, so it's not like they have gotten rid of them completely - just the ones that are lower down the page and are probably less likely to actually have been being viewed any way if buyers didn't scroll down that far.

So the thought is maybe they are testing keeping the presumably higher value/higher converting ads further up the page but removing some or all of the ads further down and either not showing any items or showing fewer items that are presumably organic (but may also be halo).

I know many have that many sponsored ads on listings lower down, mine never have. That is a category thing and music never had 70+, like said, i'm seeing the usual amount on my listings in incog window. However, I see zero while viewing my listings logged in, there are the ads above the description... truthfully never paid attention to that because those listings don't look that way to others when they view, only to you when viewing you own listings not in incog.

The issue with this whole organic idea is that it's wasting time and money for both seller and platform. Like said, they know majority of sales happen from views on listings not search, so if they replace those ads with organic how does one or the platform show sponsored ads and then what's the point of even having PLs anymore? That's what I mean, if the real-estate that sells the PLs is being used for organic then there is no point to using PL if the views/placement of them are now limited.

One can only shrug their shoulders and the great idk emoji

Â¯\_(ãƒ„)_/Â¯

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@nuclearomen My best guess (and it's nothing more than that) is these are NOT true organic listings, they are halo organic listings. And if you want your item to show up on the page---either as a Sponsored listing OR a halo organic listing, that means you must still put it into a PLS campaign. Keep in mind that even before this change, ebay could choose to show your item as a Sponsored or organic PL listing...so they were already occasionally showing a PL listing as organic. Now those organic listings (since the halo change) have a somewhat better chance of collecting the PL fee.

However, at this point, ebay hasn't even confirmed whether this is a test or whether the listings are organic or not, so pretty much whatever we say is just speculation.

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
@nuclearomen My best guess (and it's nothing more than that) is these are NOT true organic listings, they are halo organic listings. And if you want your item to show up on the page---either as a Sponsored listing OR a halo organic listing, that means you must still put it into a PLS campaign. Keep in mind that even before this change, ebay could choose to show your item as a Sponsored or organic PL listing...so they were already occasionally showing a PL listing as organic. Now those organic listings (since the halo change) have a somewhat better chance of collecting the PL fee.

However, at this point, ebay hasn't even confirmed whether this is a test or whether the listings are organic or not, so pretty much whatever we say is just speculation.

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques idk, my thought is halo listing isn't suppose to be "placed" - the definition of a Halo listing is a listing clicked on after one visited a sellers Promoted (or Sponsored) listing, then all other listings a buyer clicks on become Halo listing and can be charged the PL fee. If you understand what I mean, no listing is Promoted unless seller Promotes it. No listing starts as a Halo listing unless buyer visits a Sponsored and then hits an organic listing of listing that is promoted becomes then a Halo.

And now, if all this isn't funny and confusing enough, they place "halo" listings on sellers listings to get a fee from a sale, that would have the fee attached anyways, so why not just show the Sponsored ad? Am I the only one who finds this completely silly and dumb?

When they told us about the Halo function I said every sale will just have a PL fee attached anymore. People argued that wasn't the case...well let's have a looksie shall we?

Above the Red Line is last Month PL fees, Below This Month, not every sale, but darn near it!

OH and the one start this month - those N/A's are because I paused campaign

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@nuclearomen Just to be sure we're on the same page:

There are two types of organic listings.

The first, which I call a "true organic" listing, is NOT in a promoted listing campaign. If the Buyer clicks on my sponsored listing A and within 30 days clicks on and buys my "true organic" listing B....there is NO Promoted Listing fee. NONE.

The Second, which I call a "halo organic" listing is IN a promoted listing campaign. A classic example of such a listing : a listing shown in my store. In my store, the listing is not shown as sponsored, even though it is in a PL campaign. Now if the Buyer clicks on my sponsored listing A and within 30 days comes to my store and clicks on and buys my "halo organic" listing B in my sore....there IS a PL fee. Whatever the fee is for Listing B will be charged.

This means that a true organic listing will never have a PLS fee. A halo organic listing might, but ONLY if the buyer had touched on one of my other listings within the past 30 days. If I'm a small seller with only a few listings and they are very diverse, there' s a very good chance that whoever buys my Item B never touched any of my listings before, and so NO fee will be charged.

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
@nuclearomen Just to be sure we're on the same page:

There are two types of organic listings.

The first, which I call a "true organic" listing, is NOT in a promoted listing campaign. If the Buyer clicks on my sponsored listing A and within 30 days clicks on and buys my "true organic" listing B....there is NO Promoted Listing fee. NONE.

The Second, which I call a "halo organic" listing is IN a promoted listing campaign. A classic example of such a listing : a listing shown in my store. In my store, the listing is not shown as sponsored, even though it is in a PL campaign. Now if the Buyer clicks on my sponsored listing A and within 30 days comes to my store and clicks on and buys my "halo organic" listing B in my sore....there IS a PL fee. Whatever the fee is for Listing B will be charged.

This means that a true organic listing will never have a PLS fee. A halo organic listing might, but ONLY if the buyer had touched on one of my other listings within the past 30 days. If I'm a small seller with only a few listings and they are very diverse, there' s a very good chance that whoever buys my Item B never touched any of my listings before, and so NO fee will be charged.

uhha, and like I said before, look at the fees I posted for PL per sale, pretty much every sale, so where people believe there is no fee coming for "true organic" or whatever want to call it idk... every sale will have PL fee, that was the whole point to Halo and as you see, it's working great for them.

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

@nuclearomen wrote:

The issue with this whole organic idea is that it's wasting time and money for both seller and platform. Like said, they know majority of sales happen from views on listings not search, so if they replace those ads with organic how does one or the platform show sponsored ads and then what's the point of even having PLs anymore? That's what I mean, if the real-estate that sells the PLs is being used for organic then there is no point to using PL if the views/placement of them are now limited.

One can only shrug their shoulders and the great idk emoji
Â¯\_(ãƒ„)_/Â¯

@nuclearomen we know the majority of PL sales happen from listings not search....what we don't know (but eBay can very likely tell from internal tracking and analytics) is what part of the View Item page is responsible for driving most of those sales.

What you're saying makes sense assuming there's a relatively even distribution where ads on any part of the listing page are leading to clicks and sales....in that case you're absolutely right it would not make sense to remove them.

But what if the reality is that the modules above the description are responsible for 90% of PL clicks and sales and the 70+ below the feedback module are only 10% (completely made up numbers just for hypothetical consideration).

We might think eBay wouldn't want to lose even that 10% but it may be worth it....especially if the average ad rates for those higher converting modules increase due to sellers competing for more limited real estate on the page.

Because PLS is pay per sale, a bunch of "junk impressions" that may not even indicate a buyer actually scrolled down and saw the ads don't do anyone, including eBay, any good really. Focusing on maximizing the highest performing ad slots and getting rid of the rest might just make some kind of crazy sense....or it could just be that Jamie is out of ideas and throwing anything against the wall hoping something will stick even if it doesn't make much sense. ðŸ˜‚

I actually hope I'm completely off base with this thinking - if it's at all correct, I'm afraid for what that could mean for eBay's promise they were going to get rid of ads above the description once the new View Item page design is finalized....but it's the only thing I can think of that might make sense out of what we've been observing the last few days.

Unfortunately, since eBay obviously doesn't care to engage in this discussion, like you said we're all just left with Â¯\_(ãƒ„)_/Â¯

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@valueaddedresource That's my thought as well. I've been saying for a long time that impressions don't mean all that much, views and of course sales are more important. I recently put about 500 listing into a PLS fixed rate campaign (with a pretty low rate) and it is interesting to see that the item with the most impressions is a Haynes car manual. (No views, but hundreds of impressions, far more than anything else) I can't say why, but I'd guess because ebay has been tossing it into a lot of spots where the Haynes name is in the search, or the name of the make of the car, etc. ...a lot of these views are almost certainly junk views, with little chance of converting into a sale.

I do think ebay might have concluded that the original purpose of PLS---increase sales velocity, while also increasing some Ads revenue---has been displaced by the desire to increase ad revenue no matter what. They may have decided they need to get more selective, better targeted and less of the shotgun approach, if they are ever going to do a really good job of increasing sales velocity . And I wonder if all of this might somehow be connected with the "forecasting" tool they announced in the Seller Update...that too seemed to me to be aimed at convincing sellers to be more selective to begin with.

It's funny...the Ads team has apparently been making the rounds of some of the Seller Meet Ups, presumably promoting Ads....but they can't come here to answer some questions that really need answers?

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@valueaddedresource wrote:
@nuclearomen wrote:

The issue with this whole organic idea is that it's wasting time and money for both seller and platform. Like said, they know majority of sales happen from views on listings not search, so if they replace those ads with organic how does one or the platform show sponsored ads and then what's the point of even having PLs anymore? That's what I mean, if the real-estate that sells the PLs is being used for organic then there is no point to using PL if the views/placement of them are now limited.

One can only shrug their shoulders and the great idk emoji
Â¯\_(ãƒ„)_/Â¯
@nuclearomen we know the majority of PL sales happen from listings not search....what we don't know (but eBay can very likely tell from internal tracking and analytics) is what part of the View Item page is responsible for driving most of those sales.

What you're saying makes sense assuming there's a relatively even distribution where ads on any part of the listing page are leading to clicks and sales....in that case you're absolutely right it would not make sense to remove them.

But what if the reality is that the modules above the description are responsible for 90% of PL clicks and sales and the 70+ below the feedback module are only 10% (completely made up numbers just for hypothetical consideration).

We might think eBay wouldn't want to lose even that 10% but it may be worth it....especially if the average ad rates for those higher converting modules increase due to sellers competing for more limited real estate on the page.

Because PLS is pay per sale, a bunch of "junk impressions" that may not even indicate a buyer actually scrolled down and saw the ads don't do anyone, including eBay, any good really. Focusing on maximizing the highest performing ad slots and getting rid of the rest might just make some kind of crazy sense....or it could just be that Jamie is out of ideas and throwing anything against the wall hoping something will stick even if it doesn't make much sense. ðŸ˜‚

I actually hope I'm completely off base with this thinking - if it's at all correct, I'm afraid for what that could mean for eBay's promise they were going to get rid of ads above the description once the new View Item page design is finalized....but it's the only thing I can think of that might make sense out of what we've been observing the last few days.

Unfortunately, since eBay obviously doesn't care to engage in this discussion, like you said we're all just left with Â¯\_(ãƒ„)_/Â¯

Anymore, top of listing above description, we already know that because many people complained about how many sponsored ads were on the page, specifically below the description and many have said straight out, they don't even scroll that part of the listing anymore - so it's perfectly reasonable to say the PL coming from listings would be top of listing. That doesn't explain why they changed it, placing anything there won't cause sales if no one is actually looking.

If they are Halo ads then they aren't losing anything, rather being deceptive to what the ads are, instead of just placing Sponsored ads there and everyone know they are sponsored. If Halo ads, then they would still register as impressions on PL campaign, but impressions are topped at 10K daily for everyone it seems this past few days, which stated before, algo's shouldn't be doing that for everyone, there is some kind of internal error going on beyond just algo, programming issue somewhere.

Further, doing the thing with the ads on listings is one thing, the huge decline in PL's another, but seemingly suspicious it's all connected in some way and what do we hear from ebay? NOTHING, not peep, with their usual tactic let the weekend come in and flop because of whatever we did/doing atm. Think for once they need to issue some info/answers!

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@nuclearomen Again, to be very clear, I have no idea if this test (if that's what it is) has anything to do with the impressions decline people are seeing. And ebay has not responded to our pleas, so here we are.

What I have suggested it, IF this "test" is widespread, it MIGHT be a factor in the impressions decline. It is new, many buyers might not even notice the "see all" which opens the other pages...and if those pages aren't opened, then there are no impressions from those pages. So, we go from , say, 100 impressions per listing to, what , 10 or20? I didn't do a count. But again, this would require that this be pretty widespread to have a large effect, and as yet, we don't even know how many people are seeing the impression decline.

What we need is real information from ebay, but ebay has once again decided to leave us in the dark, for reasons I can't begin to fathom.

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
@nuclearomen Again, to be very clear, I have no idea if this test (if that's what it is) has anything to do with the impressions decline people are seeing. And ebay has not responded to our pleas, so here we are.

What I have suggested it, IF this "test" is widespread, it MIGHT be a factor in the impressions decline. It is new, many buyers might not even notice the "see all" which opens the other pages...and if those pages aren't opened, then there are no impressions from those pages. So, we go from , say, 100 impressions per listing to, what , 10 or20? I didn't do a count. But again, this would require that this be pretty widespread to have a large effect, and as yet, we don't even know how many people are seeing the impression decline.

What we need is real information from ebay, but ebay has once again decided to leave us in the dark, for reasons I can't begin to fathom.

agree, idk wh is going on.
I ended started new campaign yesterday, I had 5 sales yesterday (same buyer), since creation I have 17.845 Impressions, 5 sales, 29 clicks, but my daily impressions last 3 days topping 10K, just like everyone elses. Thinking was a glitch perhaps I checked my Traffic, but the numbers there for past days reflect what the PL graft shows so again, idk.

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

the ads on my listings in incog are there but are they actually organic or are they sponsored ads that just have the word "sponsored" removed? It doesn't make sense ebay would use their precious sponsored real-estate on listings for organic, seriously, makes no sense at all when the whole objective is to get them more $$ on FVF's.

But...if that's the case, then we already found solution, end PL campaign and don't promote, get your organic ads shown and no extra fee applied when they sell ðŸ˜†

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

@nuclearomen wrote:
the ads on my listings in incog are there but are they actually organic or are they sponsored ads that just have the word "sponsored" removed? It doesn't make sense ebay would use their precious sponsored real-estate on listings for organic, seriously, makes no sense at all when the whole objective is to get them more $$ on FVF's.

@nuclearomen as far as the FTC is concerned, eBay is required to label sponsored ads in some way - typically what we have seen on the view item page is they don't have to be individually tagged as sponsored if the title of that ad module says sponsored than that's good enough for all items in that module.

We've previously gotten confirmation from the ads team that if you see a module labeled "People who viewed this item also viewed", those are organic placements.

So, assuming eBay is playing by the rules (heck of an assumption I know, but I have no evidence to the contrary on this topic at the moment, so we'll go with it ðŸ˜‚), if the title of the module does not say sponsored in some way (Related Sponsored Items, Sponsored Items From Top Rated Sellers, etc), they should be organic.

The big open question here is where do halo items fit into this whole scenario? Technically I don't think they would have to be labeled as sponsored but that may be a bit of a gray area.

I agree that it flies in the face of what we have seen from eBay for a while now and I initially found it hard to believe they would ever intentionally remove some of the ads, but maybe (hopefully) @my-cottage-books-and-antiques is right that perhaps eBay is finally starting to consider that the ad stuffing strategy may not be working for them if many of those ads don't actually convert.

Supply and demand could also come into play here - eBay may find that less ad slots may convert better on the buyer experience side and of course at that point there would be greater competition among sellers to be featured if the supply is limited, so ad rates for those spots may increase.

It's all just conjecture at this point - I really hoped eBay would be willing to provide *some* answers if for no other reason than to address concerns about the falling impressions, but I'm not holding my breath.

slippinjimmy

·3 years ago

4 View listings

@valueaddedresource

I have/had two questions for you........

First one I think you answered and I think I'll accept that on a reasonably certain basis. The question was about when an Impression is counted on the Listing Page even though a viewer has not scrolled enough to actual see (and click) the sponsored item. Your answer was that it is counted when the page fully loads regardless of scrolling or not by the viewer.

My second question is about the carousel within the PL module, does eBay register an impression only for the listings that are viewable on the screen or do they count ALL of them regardless if you scroll over or not?

You are supposed to be "one click away" from the listing, it's a bit of a stretch if you have to scroll all over to get to that 1 click away point and especially now that the halo is in effect.

nuclearomen

·3 years ago

@slippinjimmy wrote:
@valueaddedresource

I have/had two questions for you........

First one I think you answered and I think I'll accept that on a reasonably certain basis. The question was about when an Impression is counted on the Listing Page even though a viewer has not scrolled enough to actual see (and click) the sponsored item. Your answer was that it is counted when the page fully loads regardless of scrolling or not by the viewer.

My second question is about the carousel within the PL module, does eBay register an impression only for the listings that are viewable on the screen or do they count ALL of them regardless if you scroll over or not?

You are supposed to be "one click away" from the listing, it's a bit of a stretch if you have to scroll all over to get to that 1 click away point and especially now that the halo is in effect.

@slippinjimmy impression is counted when ad shows on the same page, regardless if they clicked it or scrolled to it or not - that is registered as "click away" - they are counted when someone clicks the ad, that is counted as "clicks"

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Monthly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Monthly-Chat-November-9th-at-1-00-pm-PT/m-p/33347543/highlight/true#M29690

@slippinjimmy wrote:
@valueaddedresource

I have/had two questions for you........

First one I think you answered and I think I'll accept that on a reasonably certain basis. The question was about when an Impression is counted on the Listing Page even though a viewer has not scrolled enough to actual see (and click) the sponsored item. Your answer was that it is counted when the page fully loads regardless of scrolling or not by the viewer.

My second question is about the carousel within the PL module, does eBay register an impression only for the listings that are viewable on the screen or do they count ALL of them regardless if you scroll over or not?

You are supposed to be "one click away" from the listing, it's a bit of a stretch if you have to scroll all over to get to that 1 click away point and especially now that the halo is in effect.

@slippinjimmy I had posed this question to the ads team in one of the monthly chats a while back and they confirmed that ads in the scrolling carousels do count as an impression, even if the user never actually scrolls or swipes to bring them into view on the screen.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Monthly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Monthly-Chat-November-9th-at-1-00-pm-PT/m-p/33347622/highlight/true#M29695

My understanding of the "one click away" thing is it's not really talking about actual physical mouse clicks, it would be more accurate to think of it as "one page away."

For example, if a buyer is looking at page 1 in search results, and your Promoted Listings ad is shown on page 2, that will not count an impression until/unless the buyer navigates to page 2 - because page 1 and page 2 in search are truly different pages with different URLs.

Once you navigate to page 2, the impression will be counted even if let's say your ad is the 7th result on the page and the buyer only scrolls down to the 3rd result.

The buyer doesn't have to actually "see" your ad or bring it into view on the page, the only thing that matters is that once the buyer is on page 2 of search results, the promoted ad being shown on that page would lead directly to your listing with "one click" (meaning no need to navigate to any other pages in between).

When you are on the View Item page, all of those ads slots and carousels technically exist on the same page - if you scroll or swipe right to see more ads, the URL does not change and you aren't being directed to another page.

So because all of those ads are on the same page, every listing surfaced in those ad spots is one "click" (page) away at that point and that's why they are all counted as impressions when the page loads, regardless of how many of the ads the buyer ever actually scrolls to see.

blacktopautoparts

·3 years ago

23705 View listings

James from My Boring Reseller Life is reporting on the issue. He is good to follow as he finds these issues just like many of us do on here and talks about them everyday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2KnyOMnxxc

hk-resale

·3 years ago

25191 View listings

Hey there, we've seen you commenting on a lot of the threads regarding low sales/impressions. Have your sales ever came back???

simply-the-best-for-you

·3 years ago

This One Goes to Eleven - Nigel Tufnel5986 View listings

I checked 3 or 4 items, all on my default (chrome) browser. I don't seem to be seeing what you guys are seeing. I see 2 rows of Sponsored items before the IS's.

1 titled Similar Sponsored Items

2 titled Related Sponsored Items

Then, after the Feedback portion, I count 10 rows of items, mostly sponsored. I can detail if you want.

I believe this is no change for me, but honestly, I tend to scroll thru all that without ever really paying attn.

The only one I saw that was different was when I checked one of my one via searching for it in a search that only brought back 18 results. Mine is the 3rd (it IS a PL) & when I click into it, I see only 1 line above the fold (Related Sponsored) & only 7 lines at the bottom.

FWIW, I am experiencing 3 days now of 1/2 the PL Impressions I had prior. But my sales have stayed pretty normal.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@simply-the-best-for-you I think the drop in impressions is most likely a reporting glitch. This test would only impact impressions dramatically if it is a widespread test, and we've had so few people respond on this post, there's no way of even guessing whether it is or not.

If it is widespread, I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that impressions are down, but views/sales are not necessarily down along with them. With so many slots for PLS nowadays, it stands to reason that impressions are up, but that doesn't guarantee any sort of increase in views or sales.....I think a lot of them are what I think of as "junk impressions"

nilis13

·3 years ago

4382 View listings

My impressions and page views are the lowest I have ever seen them...worse and worse each day..sales are down too..I promote, add new listings daily and absolutely nothing helps.

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
@simply-the-best-for-you I think the drop in impressions is most likely a reporting glitch. This test would only impact impressions dramatically if it is a widespread test, and we've had so few people respond on this post, there's no way of even guessing whether it is or not.

If it is widespread, I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that impressions are down, but views/sales are not necessarily down along with them. With so many slots for PLS nowadays, it stands to reason that impressions are up, but that doesn't guarantee any sort of increase in views or sales.....I think a lot of them are what I think of as "junk impressions"

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques "we've had so few people respond on this post, there's no way of even guessing whether it is or not" - it's kind of a catch 22 isn't it?

It could be a widespread test in certain browser scenarios but maybe most people aren't even noticing, so they would have no reason to respond here unless someone brings it to their attention.

eBay registers impressions as soon as the page loads, but that doesn't mean the user ever actually scrolls far enough down to really see the ads. In theory, that may be exactly what they are testing here and ironically the lack of people reporting it may actually prove the point that those are mostly "junk impressions" as you said.

simply-the-best-for-you

·3 years ago

This One Goes to Eleven - Nigel Tufnel5986 View listings

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
@simply-the-best-for-you I think the drop in impressions is most likely a reporting glitch. This test would only impact impressions dramatically if it is a widespread test, and we've had so few people respond on this post, there's no way of even guessing whether it is or not.

If it is widespread, I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that impressions are down, but views/sales are not necessarily down along with them. With so many slots for PLS nowadays, it stands to reason that impressions are up, but that doesn't guarantee any sort of increase in views or sales.....I think a lot of them are what I think of as "junk impressions"

ITA with all of that. My money is on a "reporting issue" that may or may not be an actual reporting issue LOL.

I also noticed that I made a weird typo in my post 25 (rough day yesterday), this sentence below:

The only one I saw that was different was when I checked one of my one via searching

SHOULD READ "when I checked one of MINE via searching".

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

Also for anyone who is wondering what we are talking about, I'll try to post a few screenshots though the community doesn't typically do well with bigger images.

Here's what it looks like for me when there are no other items shown below the feedback module:

And here's an example of when it shows me just what appear to be organic items below the feedback module:

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Business-Seller-Board/Impressions-broken-again/m-p/7450135#M297101

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques after further thought, the extra delay I've noticed when there are no ads could also be explained a different way - if eBay is in fact doing a test, they may have injected additional coding to basically tell the page *not* to load the ad modules in situations where whatever parameters are met...and that extra coding could absolutely cause the tiny bit of extra delay I was noticing.

Interestingly, multiple sellers in the eBayUK boards are reporting major drops in Promoted impressions just in the last few days, which may coincide with whatever we are seeing here, whether it's a test or tech issue.

This thread had started with a previous issue with reporting, so most of the posts aren't relevant here but check out starting here and going forward - several screenshots of charts showing PL drops starting on/around July 18.

The UK staff have said that they've escalated these most recent reports to the tech team and have been told there is no tech issue - of course we all know that could just flat out be wrong based on previous experience ðŸ˜‚ but it's also possible that if this is an intentional test those results would be "working as expected" and not considered a tech issue.

@devon@ebay @adsteam@ebay just bringing this to your attention as one more reason I really hope you are able and willing to provide some answers here.

I understand that eBay doesn't typically disclose details of tests due to not wanting to affect the results, but if this is a test and if it really is having these drastic impacts on what sellers are seeing in reports...disclosure would certainly go a long way toward calming seller concerns and making life easier for your UK counterparts as well as eBay's global support channels.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@valueaddedresource We have some posters here talking about large drops in impressions...I mentioned this as a possible cause on one of the threads, but I don't think there was any response. IF this is actually a pretty widespread test---or a phased rollout---I do think it could account for a pretty big drop in impressions. If it is just a small test, then probably not. It would be nice to get a response from ebay on this, even if it is only to say "we will not disclose that"....

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques just as a point of interest, I did some testing with random listings on eBayUK and came up with the same results I had posted above as far as which browsers/logged in etc saw which results...so at the very least I would say it's likely that whatever the parameters are (if it's a test), they are being applied globally.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@elizabeth@ebay Can we please get a response from the Ads Team on this?

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

Please, Ads Team, Please!

nilis13

·3 years ago

4382 View listings

My impressions and views are down dramatically - along with my sales...

mcdougle4248

·3 years ago

@valueaddedresource

Curious about the view item page, using incognito and looking at one of my listings. I have not seen this before (which does not mean it has not been there before). Below the feedback module is a row showing my promotional free shipping offer (nothing more). I LIKE this a lot! My guess is they are testing again.

Screenshot 2023-07-19 070813.jpg

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@mcdougle4248 The absence of sponsored listings is unusual, but the presence of the promotional manager module (in this case,the free shipping offer) in that spot isn't new. If I run a Markdown Manager Sale it will be there (although it will only appear if the listing itself is in the sale....if I didn't include it in the sale, the module doesn't appear (as I recall).

mcdougle4248

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques

Thank you...good to know!

dhbookds

·3 years ago

1700 View listings

Off the topic.......but I don't remember (always a caveat) seeing feedback % before on the "lines" (modules).....and I note they are not shown (mostly), if feedback % is less than 100%...

mcdougle4248

·3 years ago

ETA I just used the incognito mode and I now see the page as @my-cottage-books-and-antiques describes including no additional listings shown at the bottom of the page below the feedback.

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

@mcdougle4248 wrote:
ETA I just used the incognito mode and I now see the page as @my-cottage-books-and-antiques describes including no additional listings shown at the bottom of the page below the feedback.

@mcdougle4248 interesting.

Not incognito, I'm still seeing the 25 organic below the description and feedback.

Incognito, like you @my-cottage-books-and-antiques , I'm not seeing anything below feedback now but...the page was trying to load for several seconds longer than usual before finally loading completely and not showing anything below feedback.

That makes me wonder if not showing any other items in area is intended as part of a test or if it's a display/loading error where if it times out, it just doesn't show anything there.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@valueaddedresource

Two points:

I wonder....since some of these seem to be organic displayed as organic....you mentioned the other day (if I recall correctly) a browser with a filter that allowed you to filter out sponsored listings ... could you try filtering these out, to see if the filter treats the "organic" as ads or not? (assuming that's what the filter is filtering for)

I am thinking...maybe they are doing this in part because people are figuring out how to filter out sponsored listings but since these are not sponsored, they wouldn't be filtered out?

Also: As I mentioned above, assuming some of these listings are being shown as organic, a question I have is: are they showing as "true organic" (not in a promoted listing campaign) or as "halo organic" (in a promoted listing campaign, but being shown as organic)

Remember, if they are "true organic" (not in a PL campaign) they cannot be charged a halo PLS fee. However, if they are "halo organic" (shown as organic, but part of an active PLS campaign), they can be charged a halo PLS fee if the 30 day requirements are met.

I'm guessing at least some of these are halo organic. That is, the ads team is still selecting them from the PLS pool, but is choosing to display them as organic, which reduces, but does not eliminate, the chance that they will be charged a PLS fee if they sell.

Your thoughts?

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques yes, that test where I was able to remove all other items shown on the page was using the Brave browser with script blocking turned on.

Interestingly, in the Brave browser right now without script blocking, eBay is still showing mostly PL ads in all those other item slots like we've seen before - so whatever they are testing here with the apparent organic ones we are seeing in other browsers, Brave is not included in that test for me at this time.

But, Brave does have the one row of "People who viewed this also viewed" which like you said, we've established previously is most likely organic so...to get to what you are getting at, yes that row also disappears if I enable the script blocking.

Like I pointed out in that other thread though, scripts are used for a lot of different functionality on the page and enabling script blocking kills them all - the add to cart or buy buttons don't work for example if you have that setting on.

So while it does make the other items on the page "disappear", I'm not sure how relevant it really is to the whole discussion on ads - it basically just confirms that the modules on the page that show other items are running scripts, just like many other elements on the page....and pretty much every element on any web page you visit.

I don't think most users are going to that extreme and if they did, they wouldn't be able to use anything on the page to check out - importantly in my testing in Brave and other browsers, just ad blockers alone don't usually filter out all or even most of the PL on the view item page, so again I'm not sure how much that may be a concern to eBay at this point.

But to your point about true organic or "halo" - I think that is the real question here and the main reason why I said it will be interesting to see if sellers also report any differences in impressions, clicks, and sales for organic vs PL (and within PL - direct or halo) while this test is going on.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

Good point about the script blocker...you are right, that wouldn't really be relevant.

But yes, are we seeing true organic, halo organic, or a mix? That's the question.

@elizabeth@ebay @adsteam@ebay

Could you ask the Ads Team about this? As you can see in valueaddedresource's post above, the one with the screen shots, some modules are labelled , for example, "Similar Items" (as opposed to "Similar Sponsored Items"...this suggests these items are NOT being displayed as sponsored (promoted) items.

1. Can the AdsTeam confirm that?

2. And if that is true, are the items in this module "true organic" items (they are NOT currently in a PLS campaign) or are they "halo organic" items (they ARE in a PLS campaign, but are being displayed as non-sponsored)

Or is it a mix?

Thanks for any info you can provide.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

I am still seeing only the two modules (rows) between the above- the- fold section and the description.....are other people seeing this as well, or are most people still seeing tons of listings on the view item page?

mcdougle4248

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques

I am seeing "tons" of listings on the view item page. Both when using Incognito and not using Incognito Chrome/Windows 10.

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
I am still seeing only the two modules (rows) between the above- the- fold section and the description.....are other people seeing this as well, or are most people still seeing tons of listings on the view item page?

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques right now it varies for me.

Chrome logged in: 2 rows of PL above description with "see more" that goes to full page of other items, 25 other items below description/feedback labeled as "You May Also Like" (presumably organic, but may also be "halo")

Chrome Incognito: 2 rows of PL above description with "see more" that goes to full page of other items, no other items below description/feedback module.

Firefox logged in: 2 rows of PL above description with "see more" that goes to full page of other items, no other items below description/feedback module.

Firefox incognito: 2 rows of PL above description with "see more" that goes to full page of other items, typical previous "tons" of multiple PL rows and other items shown below description/feedback module.

Brave with no ad blocking or script blocking - 2 rows of PL above description with "see more" that goes to full page of other items, typical previous "tons" of multiple PL rows and other items shown below description/feedback module.

As previously noted, in the instances that showed the usual "tons" of other items, it wasn't immediate - initially there weren't any, the page took a second to load and then they were displayed.

The instances which did not have other items under the description/feedback seemed to be trying to load for slightly longer than the ones where they were shown, which makes me wonder if one possibility might be that something in the script/coding for those other item spots is just timing out and failing to load rather than this being an intentional test of not showing anything at all in that area.

Here's where my thoughts on it are - I think it's entirely possible eBay may be testing exactly how many other items to display and/or whether there are any differences between displaying them as PL or as "organic" which may or may not also be "halo".

I have a tougher time believing they would be testing showing no other items at all below the description/feedback module for all of the ad rev importance reasons we've discussed before. ðŸ˜‚

So I'm personally leaning toward no other items below description being a technical issue (possibly caused by the other testing?) and the differences in the mix of PL vs organic being an intentional test....but that's just my gut feeling on it.

mcdougle4248

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques

@valueaddedresource

The view item page that I am seeing this morning looks just like @valueaddedresource screenshots.

valueaddedresource

·3 years ago

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques

This morning in both FireFox and Chrome I am seeing the two ad modules above the description (Similar Sponsored Items and Sponsored Items Customers Also Bought right now).

I am also still seeing other items shown below the description - 25 of them all under the heading "You May Also LIke" with no indication they are sponsored/PL....so I have to assume those are organic.

Like you, when I click through to "see more" on the ad modules, it goes to a separate page where it shows Similar Sponsored Items and then below that a grouping of 25 Similar Items (again, presumably organic).

The interesting thing is in my testing at least some of the same listings are being shown on that page in both places.

Here's one that is in the first row of Similar Sponsored Items

And without reloading or doing anything to change the view, when I scroll down the same listing is also in the first row of Similar Items as organic.

Definitely interesting that they appear to be testing more organic placement...will also be interesting to see if sellers report any changes in their traffic and advertising reports that might confirm if organic impressions increase/PL impressions decrease.

vintagecraze50

·3 years ago

2326 View listings

It makes sense to show ALL or as many options for buyers to get the best product at the best price, ORGANIC OR PROMOTED. Using only promoted may not produce the sales that ebay needs if these items are not priced correctly.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago

@vintagecraze50 It might make sense to do that, and maybe they are doing that, but as I've explained, in order to populate the pages, the Ads Team may still only be drawing from the pool of available Promoted Listings, not PLS plus true organic listings. We are still waiting for ebay to respond to the questions we've posed, but so far, ebay has not even acknowledged that we asked them.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques

OP3 years ago