Any reason my buyer would have the return package held at my post office?
Quick background, this buyer has been ... interesting ... from the get go. Purchased a mixed lot of sterling silver jewelry, wrote to claim some of it is fake sterling (it's not) and requested a partial refund, I declined and offered to accept a return, she filed a return and I approved it and sent her a label, then a couple days later she said she would like to return the lot but was waiting for her refund -yes, as in, refund before return, LOL. I would chalk it up to her not-quite-flawless English (lives in Alabama like me, but her return details are written in German) ... BUT she is a buyer/seller with ample history to know how returns work. So yeah, pretty fishy.
So I "informed" her that she must use the label and return the jewelry in order to get a refund, so then she shipped. -I will actually be surprised if she didn't keep the "real" sterling pieces by the way, but no point in getting ahead of myself. Last night tracking showed the return package in my town, so I expected it would be delivered this afternoon. I had actually forgot about it until about suppertime, but there was nothing in my mailbox. When I opened the return details I saw this:
Okay first of all, I have NO IDEA why it says those dates for "originally estimated." -The package was originally delivered TO HER on the 26th. But this is supposed to be the RETURN tracking, and she didn't even file the return until the 28th.
Then there is this "delivery attempted" thing .... which I have never had, ever before. I have a giant mailbox right on the street, so there should be no "attempted" about it. Considering this buyer's antics thus far, I immediately thought this could be a zip code scam that backfired, because she picked a problematic address to deliver the face mask or whatever to.
But then I went to my USPS Informed Delivery account, and found that the tracking was already automatically loaded there, so she DID use the actual label I sent, and it was addressed to my house, or it wouldn't have populated on my I.D. page. Then I noticed that it said it was held at the P.O. "at customer request". What customer? Wasn't me! Also, AND THIS IS KEY: that scan was at 8:46 AM. That means there never actually was a "delivery attempt" because my mailman NE-VER reaches my street before 2 PM, in fact a 7 PM delivery would be less surprising than a 8:46 AM one.
So unless I'm mistaken, somebody realized this package had a hold on it after it was already scanned 'out for delivery' and maybe the only way to cancel that is 'delivery attempted.' As for the hold, it had to be this buyer who requested it -but can a sender do that, even if they weren't the one who bought the label? Also WHY might she have done this?
In case anyone's wondering, no she hasn't written to say anything since shipping the return. And no there wasn't any kind of note from my mailman about the package in my mailbox.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoIs it possible this mail carrier hit the wrong choice on his /her scanner for the “held at customer requestâ€.
robbie31415
·2 years agoI never get the option to withhold original shipping regardless If they are reported or not.
I guess that's because all my original shipping are $0.00 😂
gurlcat
OP2 years agoI'm headed in that direction myself.
gurlcat
OP2 years ago@wastingtime101
So, was Mam correct about INAD's not normally having a field/toggle for original shipping (assuming it WASN'T a return associated with the seller having reported the buyer, prior to it), or was she just imagining that?
Here's why I ask. I have another return that delivered back to me today, INAD, but I did not report this buyer for anything. And yet, there's that toggle again! This time however, it was already slid over to the right. -Not quite the same as what I would call a "default" to refund original shipping, because that would be where the refund automatically includes original shipping and sliding the toggle to the right would 'activate' withholding it. But whatever -at least it was already activated to refund it this time. -But I also couldn't help but remember what Mam said about this option supposedly not even being there for INAD's, only remorse returns.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoI don't think I have enough screenshots to verify when that changed. Most of my screenshots from that page are from "free shipping" items which does not help us.
- As far as I can recall, Mam was correct that it used to not be an option as long as the buyer was not reported.
- You already verified I was correct that it's been an option for approx 5 years when the buyer is reported.
I have not paid enough attention to realize the option exists when a buyer isn't reported. That's news to me. So maybe it's a brand new change or maybe I haven't noticed it before. Most of my returns are remorse.
Maybe this would be better presented on your other thread where Kyle was participating and ask him about it, and also ask him if the default is changed from off to on due to our feedback. 🤷
gurlcat
OP2 years agoWell I don't think this would have anything to do with asking Kyle for help. -Remember, the thing with it being defaulted 'off' (slid to the left, thus no refund of original shipping) was only for reported buyers. This^ one wasn't reported.
mam98031
·2 years agoEbay is just making changes on things faster than any of us can keep up with. It makes it so difficult for any of us to give accurate advice sometimes.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoThank you. And you see how the slider is defaulted to not refund the original shipping? Like that's eBay's NORM and sliding it over would be a decisive act?
Well isn't that interesting, because leaving the default as it is waives your right to fee credits.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoCorrect. Several sellers have gotten caught by that default and posted about it on this forum the past few years.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoOkay I was just going down my Solds page and this caught my eye:
-yeah, as if I didn't already respond. So I clicked the return details, where I saw this:
....but the clickable details from that page says:
Also the Transaction Details from my Payments page says:
So let me get this straight. The buyer has RECEIVED the refund but it hasn't "gone through." Therefore the transaction is COMPLETED, but the return isn't "closed."
What the ...... ????????
mam98031
·2 years agoRefunds are not instant. It takes a little time to actually get the money to the buyer's payment source. Relax, it will be just fine. You just need to allow for processing time.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoWhat the you know what indeed.
robbie31415
·2 years agoWhat is unclear ?
The only thing I think is misleading is the ability to deduct original shipping for an INAD claim.
If it was wasn't avaliable which it shouldn't have been then gurlcat would have most likely gotten all their fee credits back.
EBay MBG says buyers who file INAD should get a "FULL' refund. The only exceptions to that fall under abusive buyer/TRS protections that allow for up to 50% for altered condition.
What eBay should do is not allow for original shipping deductions on INAD claims, and only allow the option for buyer remorse.
Allowing them causes the confusion gurlcat had thinking this wouldn't disqualify her from the fee credits because it wasn't a deduction to the actual item.
mam98031
·2 years agoI'm not sure why anyone was confused about this. The rules on the 50% discount are detailed enough and says absolutely nothing about original shipping. I think some assumptions were made and unfortunately, those assumptions cost GurlCat about $25.
But I'm glad it wasn't more expensive for her. And I'm sure glad she got everything back in the same condition it was when she sent it. That is a very good thing.
robbie31415
·2 years agoThe confusion is that eBay allows original shipping to be deducted.
The fact that it's an option makes one think it's allowed.
Even though eBay expects full refund and only deduct for altered condition.
If you can't see how that's misleading and can cause confusion, then I don't know what else to say.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoTLDR: Yes I apparently denied this sketchy-and-then-some buyer her $7.25 original shipping at the cost of not receiving my $33 in fee credits.
This isn't replying to any particular person -it seems abundantly clear that what I did was shoot myself in the foot a bit. This WAS (officially) an INAD return, a false one of course, but I did refund 100% of the item price because she did return 100% of the lot pieces.
I withheld the original shipping because ... I dunno, not revenge but message-sending, like this buyer should learn that she can't just invest some money (btw she already got the lot for a very good price shortly after I listed it -I would have priced it higher and had a higher offer minimum if it weren't for the fact that I was trying to quickly scrape the last bit of my rent coming up) .... invest money into inventory ventures where she'll write to the sellers, accuse them of selling fakes to try for an after-sale discount ..... and continue with the antics, like seeing if the seller will send the refund before getting the return ..... irritating, insulting, time-wasting carp like that .... then do an INAD based on the same false accusation she made before, pay nothing for the return shipping ..... and in the end get made 100% whole. I figured, if that's true, then why wouldn't she keep doing it? Seriously, why not, because some sellers WILL give a partial refund, either out of fear or just to avoid a prolonged annoyance.
No, I thought, she should lose at least a little something.
So I kept the original shipping for HER, not for me. -Heck I normally refund that even for remorse buys, even after giving them a free return label -if they're HONEST about their return reason! Some might call that foolish, like why take a net loss for someone who should have considered their purchase more carefully or studied the listing better? Because I did some bad things as a minor, and I wasn't punished for my youthful foolishness; I didn't have to pay anything back to those people or "society." But that didn't teach me that I could get away with wrongdoing; it taught me that there's a thing .... I believe Christians call it "grace" .... it is powerful and humbling, and it's not something to just receive and have; it should change you, and then you should give it to others. So that's what I do with buyers, give those little few-dollars payments of grace to people who admit they messed up, tiny installments toward the huge debt I owe for much bigger acts of messing up. And you know, some of those people have given me nice feedback and even bought again.
But this one did the exact opposite, and I had the wrong impression that refunding the original shipping was optional, without penalty. -I knew that withholding any of the item price cancelled the fee credit, but I didn't know withholding the shipping did too. In fact I was pretty sure I remembered reading here that you could do it (yes even with INAD's) as a perk of being TRS and/or having free returns. Obviously I get now that it is not the case.
But here's a question -why does the Return page even HAVE that handy little toggle to include or not include it in the refund FOR AN INAD RETURN? It kinda seems like a trap, with an obvious incentive to set it up -eBay getting to keep their fees. Yeah yeah yeah read and memorize every word of the MBG, I'm sure a certain someone will reply the finger wag at me for even thinking eBay might be a bit shady and it's kinda ridiculous that it's your job to find the policy Easter eggs where they admit it .... in the most user-unfriendly "Help" landscape on the whole world wide web, including outdated but not updated policy wording and contradictory wording from one page to the next.
Oh and one last little knife-twist: I'm not 100% certain, but fairly sure, if this buyer is familiar enough with return procedures, she could appeal the original shipping withholding, and I believe eBay would give her a courtesy refund on that. -In fact now that I think about it, maybe THAT was where my misconception came from -that TRS/free returns enables you to do that withholding and eBay will cover it if the buyer demands it, but I had no idea it would deny me my fee credits. So anyway, yeah if she knows how, this buyer really could end up 100% whole for trying to get cheap jewelry inventory even cheaper.
Welp, for the cost of $33 plus a $5 return label, I learned something I will never be mistaken about again.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoA seller asked about that several years ago after TRS protections were launched and this is what Trinton from eBay said about it in relation to a SNAD return:
"you know that you are following eBay's guidance regarding original shipping being withheld if the option is presented to you. You won't have the option if we do not allow you to keep original shipping for that transaction/refund."
My experience over the years is the option to withhold original shipping on a SNAD appears when you report the buyer for abusing MBG returns.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoI reported the buyer for requesting a partial refund ... can't remember if it was before or after she filed the INAD though.
But let's ask @fern*wood since they made the same mistake recently. -Had you reported your buyer for anything prior to seeing the screen where you were offered the toggle to withhold the original shipping? And are you certain it was an INAD return, not a remorse reason one?
mam98031
·2 years agoIt was before, as I remember it. And it was for demanding a partial refund, which they didn't do. You are correct in this post that they requested a partial refund. I'm not looking to reopen the conversation. It is another one of Ebay's policy that has a verbiage conflict. I've reported it and hopefully they will make this policy a bit more cohesive before the turn of the century.
fern*wood
·2 years agoThe return when this happened to me was probably a couple years ago, but know I reported after they filed the NAD return. I do not recall the exact wording for the reason I chose when I reported, but it was something along the lines of false reason (what I thought was a faulty return) because it should have been a remorse return.
So in making the report, I was given the option to withhold the initial shipping, which we all know now isn't a good idea if the math works out as it did since I lost all the fees. I did refund the full purchase price.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoThank you so much for answering. So basically your situation was virtually identical to mine, and it would appear that Wasting correctly interpreted Trinton's language -you and I were provided the original shipping toggle only because we had reported our buyers at some point before clicking 'refund' and seeing that screen.
The fact that the toggle doesn't have text under it warning the seller that it (alone) will waive their fee credit, or a popup saying so if you switch it, that's effectively a trap. -I choose the word "effectively" because it IS the effect regardless of whether it was intentionally deceptive or just a programming oversight. And the fact that it isn't even clarified in the policy pages (should you devote the time trying to find it in that hellscape) .... that is just beyond unfair.
Wastingtime -I am just waking up and haven't read all my notifications here, let alone scrolled the main page feed, but I'll do that and if I don't see anyone has started a thread tagging a blue about it, I will do so. Is there any particular one I should tag? Also do you think there would be any point in me contacting eBay directly to appeal my fees' non-credit? That might be as good a learning opportunity if I did it on Facebook, since I could preemptively request a screenshot of the policy being applied, should they give me a "nope" answer.
robbie31415
·2 years agoI agree.
If it was a INAD return then the return should have included original shipping.
If it was buyer remorse then original shipping can be withheld.
Withholding original shipping is another way to say the buyer did a false return as INAD refunds are meant to provide a full refund.
mam98031
·2 years agoWithholding original shipping is another way to say the buyer did a false return as INAD refunds are meant to provide a full refund.
What? Why? Buyer Remorse returns are not "a false return"? The buyer is being honest when they file the claim and stated it was a reason that qualifies for Buyer's Remorse. A Buyer Remorse claim is NOT a "false" claim.
What could be false is a INAD. Too many buyers file an INAD because they know if the file a BR, they may not get a full refund to include shipping and they know they need to pay for return shipping [except when a seller offers Free Shipping]. So some buyers will select a reason that is incorrect and is not what they may have said in an email to they sent to the seller. Which makes this process a bit frustrating at times.
robbie31415
·2 years agoWhere did I say anything about remorse returns ?
Ebays own policies say INAD refunds should be FULL refunds and that includes original shipping costs.
The OP said the buyer claimed it was INAD.
Never once did I say anything about buyer remorse claims being false claims.
This is you once again misinterpreting what I say and making some weird argument.
mam98031
·2 years agoMy apologies, I should have posted your entire post, that is my fault. But here it is for your referral and what I was responding to.
I agree.
If it was a INAD return then the return should have included original shipping.
If it was buyer remorse then original shipping can be withheld.
Withholding original shipping is another way to say the buyer did a false return as INAD refunds are meant to provide a full refund.
But your point is taken. However not refunding original shipping, if separately stated on the purchase, can only be done on a properly filed Buyer's Remorse return.
robbie31415
·2 years agoSo where do I say buyer remorse returns are false returns ?
Obviously the disconnect here is that you don't understand that buyer remorse returns and INAD are different.
The reason they are different is becsuse buyer remorse don't fall under eBays MBG like INAD does.
The only time buyer remorse falls under eBay MBG is when the seller refuses to honor their advertised return policy which is false advertisement and would be converted to a INAD case.
However buyer remorse returns aren't obligated to be full refunds like INAD.
This gives seller ability to withhold original shipping costs for buyer remorse returns.
However, INAD expect full refunds part of eBays MBG policy.
Everything i said was correct However I think the disconnect is you are not aware of how the process works.
It's okay, people learn new stuff on here all the time.
mam98031
·2 years agoAgain, trying to make something out of nothing.
I said in my post "But your point is taken." Sorry that wasn't good enough for you.
IDK why you thing Buyer Remorse returns aren't covered in the MBG, but here is some info that may be of interest.
When the seller doesn't fulfill their return policy
If the listing states that the seller offers returns, the buyer may return the item for any reason, including if they change their mind about the item ("remorse" returns).
When a buyer requests a return within the seller's return policy, the seller must allow them to return the item for a full refund. The seller may exclude original shipping costs from the refund.
When the seller doesn't offer returns, or a remorse return request falls outside the seller's return window, the seller may exercise their discretion to accept or deny the return. If the seller chooses to accept the return, this will then be treated as if they had offered returns in the listing.
Both buyers and sellers must meet all applicable return requirements. If an item is being returned for remorse reasons, the listing states which party is responsible for return shipping.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210
The only time buyer remorse falls under eBay MBG is when the seller refuses to honor their advertised return policy which is false advertisement and would be converted to a INAD case.
I'm not sure that I actually understand what you are saying here. The only return policy that can, per the Ebay rules, deny a properly filed Buyer Remorse returns is if the seller had a No Return policy on the listing. IDK anything about how a claim gets "converted".
As to the closing insults. That just seems to be your style of posting.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoPoint of clarification: that's not 100% correct. Generally speaking, yes, SNADs get refunded in full. But if the buyer is reported for returning the item in an altered state, then sellers with protections (either free returns or TRS with other qualifiers like 30 day returns in most categories) can withhold up to 50% of item cost in accordance with eBay's guidelines and withhold original shipping if it was charged separately.
That said, it does not apply in gurlcat's case since she confirmed the buyer shipped back all pieces back in the same condition. If the buyer had chosen to keep the "good" stuff and return only part of the lot, then gurlcat could have withheld part of the item cost and all of the shipping cost after reporting the buyer.
robbie31415
·2 years agoThat's the difference between remorse and non remorse returns.
If it's non remorse then it's expected to be a full refund.
The only deductions should be for altered state that falls under the abusive buyer policy or TRS protections.
HOWEVER, buyer remorse returns don't fall under the same rules unless the buyer reports the seller for not following their return policy.
People tend to get the rules mixed up and apply the same for all returns.
Since it appears gutlcats customer reported INAD, it would be expected the return be full, and deductions would fall under the abusive buyer policy/ TRS protections. if that is how the deductions got classified then the seller forfeits eBay fees.
Hard to know without seeing order details.
mam98031
·2 years agoYou are correct, however that was not what was being discussed. The other poster was specifically talking about shipping and when the seller can be withhold the original shipping from the refund. That is a separate consideration to what can be refunded for the Product.
You took my statement out of context of the conversation with another poster, so it appears a bit different than intended for the conversation.
ise710
·2 years agoIf this was a SNAD return request @gurlcat you won't get any fee credits unless you fully refund.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoThat was bid shielding and I would have blocked ALL the associated IDs!
(Bid shielding is the buyer-perpetrated version of shill bidding (which is perpetrated by sellers).
@gurlcat
I'm glad this was just a glitch on USPS's part and the buyer was honest enough to sent everything back.
(I wonder if she reads here! Ah the beauty (and danger) of posting with your selling ID.)
gurlcat
OP2 years agoDo you know when I should expect to see my fees credited back to me? They still aren't.
I did refund 100% of the item price but not the original shipping. -To my knowledge that is not supposed to waive my fee credits. Right?
brightlightbookseller
·2 years agoFrom what I've seen, the fees are deducted from what you refund, so the amount due is smaller than what you type in. Thus, you won't see a fee credit, it was already credited in the process of refunding. You should be able to see that on your payments page.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoI've always gotten the credit of fees immediately. Are you looking on this page?
https://www.ebay.com/mes/transactionlist?sh=true
And if you click the view for the "details" https://www.ebay.com/sh/fin/vpd?transactionType=REFUND&uuId=TRANSFER__RRP-6348073924-CCM_CHARGE
This was the sale showing the fee ($3.83) taken out:
And this was the refund (showing the $3.83 credit):
EDIT: In cases of remorse refunds, the FVF credit has been prorated, so yes, there should be a credit shown.
I think you aren't looking at the breakdown of the refund.
mam98031
·2 years agoWhen you issued the refund, how much that was being refunded in fees was shown on your screen. And I agree with @brightlightbookseller , which could be what is causing you to think it wasn't refunded.
fern*wood
·2 years agoIf you were to get the fees refunded, it would have been automatically figured when you issued the refund. I did one today and the refund amount deducted from my account reflected the discount of the fees.
If the buyer filed a not as described return, I do believe you won't get any fees credited if you withheld any part of their initial payment. It's a math thing that I forgot to do a few months ago and lost money by withholding the shipping on a faulty not as described return. If it was a remorse return, your refund should have reflected the fee deduction.
fern*wood
·2 years agoI just looked at your sold listing which appears to have sold for $189. plus shipping. So if you just refunded $161., then it appears your fee refund was credited to you. Just to clarify, did they file using a remorse reason?
Glad to hear they didn't cherry pick the lot.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoNah it was an accepted offer deal, so the $161 was what she actually paid for the item, plus shipping. For some dumb reason I thought I could withhold the original shipping, so shot myself in the foot.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoI think you mentioned upthread that you reported the buyer for filing a false claim / misusing returns? Because of that, it triggered the ability to partial refund and/or withhold original shipping. Since the buyer did return everything in the end in the same condition, yeah, you were supposed to refund that shipping on the SNAD and you prob lost more in the forfeit fees than the ship cost withheld. If the buyer escalates to eBay then can force a refund of that original shipping so don't be surprised if that happens. Actually, if that does happen you might get an unresolved case defect. Hopefully the buyer won't go there, but they could. ðŸ˜
robbie31415
·2 years agoSince they reported it how they did, even if the buyer complains to eBay, there should be no change to the seller.
Unless they do it often and classify the seller as abusing policies.
However, I'm sure gurlcat is far under the threshold for abusing their protections, so if the buyer does go to Ebay and ebay refunds out of their pocket there should be no impact on the seller.
Almost every buyer runs to eBay when you slap them with a 50% deduction. eBay always pays it, and I've never seen eBay hit the seller with anything.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoI agree with your post, but to the above statement I've seen several sellers have the other 50% taken from their funds instead of eBay's. Never experienced it myself though. Only had 2 buyers appeal when I did a less than full refund and eBay refunded the balance from their pocket and gave me the up-to-$6 shipping credits because of buyer abuse.
As you said, gurlcat should be fine, but I did think it was worth mentioning as a possibility just so she's not blindsided on the off chance it does happen.
fern*wood
·2 years agoI had the same thing happen to me. I knew a partial refund would forfeit my fees, but didn't realize the shipping would too. I see it as ebay's way to offer us a carrot, but punish us if we use it.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoIndeed. From the beginning it *bleep* me off that we can do a partial refund under seller protections and abusive buyer policies, but if we go along with what eBay says to do it forfeits our fees. I assume they do that because they want us to give buyers full refunds even when unwarranted.
mam98031
·2 years agoWhy would you do that? You offer Free Returns. While you disagree with the reason for the INAD, you did get everything back, as you reported in an earlier post, why would you withhold anything?
albertabrightalberta
·2 years ago@gurlcat does offer free returns but those returns (whether SNAD or remorse) would have to be within 30 days.
In this case, the buyer didn't even ship until (IIRC) 34 days later so the seller wasn't even obligated to accept the return since it was outside the NAD return window as well as the seller's 30-day return window.
Per ebay, the seller isn't even obligated to take the return (since it wasn't even shipped until after 30 days) so IMO, sending the buyer a refund for the purchase price is honorable and fair.
robbie31415
·2 years agoI'm curious are you implying the buyer has to ship back within 30 days of receiving the item?
If so that isn't true.
Buyers get 21 days to ship returns and they can open on the 30th day.
So they can get an acceptance scan on the 51st day and still be within policy.
The only thing a buyer can't do is open a MBG claim after 30 days. It has to be opened before the timer runs out.
mam98031
·2 years agoI'm old and it is late at night, but I don't think this is correct. In her OP she said the buyer received the item on June 26th. I believe it was purchased on the 22nd. I think you may have this confused with another thread we have been on where the buyer did take an extremely long time to return the item.
@albertabrightalberta
Are you thinking of this thread.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Return-never-arrived/m-p/34553979#M2424382
Now if I'm wrong, please let me know.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoEDIT: I'm going to mark the conclusion Best Answer just so anyone seeing the thread anew won't need to read alllll the replies as if there is still a mystery afoot. But anybody continue to converse at leisure if you like.
Okay UPDATE:
Brenda, Wicked Witch of the South was not there! -Instead a totally nice feller, he went and found the package. -According to him it WAS their bad - "it was put into the wrong bin, sorry."
Okay .... but why did somebody fabricate the whole "held at customer's request" thing, and were they just never going to put it out for delivery again? Anyway, whatever.
Now get this! -Buyer sent back the full lot, every single piece, LOL! -I've already refunded her fully, and I guess I'll relist this lot.
Almost feels kind of anti-climactic, huh? Well here's one last little mystery for anyone who knows this part, because I usually forget to even check it, as most of my returns have been for much smaller-dollar items. -When will I see my fee credits? It says the refund is "complete" (I had available funds so I guess that was instantaneous). But do the fee credits take a little longer?
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoWow that was a shocker, but glad she did send it all back.
Maybe she thought better of any shenanigans knowing you know her seller name?
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoUSPS does some wacko things at time that confuses the heck out of everyone. Glad this worked out ok.
robbie31415
·2 years agoI don't see how the address wouldn't be addressed to you.
Based on the screenshot the label was printed by the USPS.
Altering a label wouldn't have been. That's when they download a label to their device and change the label.
This can't happen when the USPS print it.
I'd chalk this up to USPS issues related to near holiday.
simply-the-best-for-you
·2 years agoIDK if this helps at all, but a few weeks ago I had a return happen when I was on vacation for 2 weeks & was having my mail held at the PO. Despite the fact that my mail was held, my pkg received the scans:
Arrived at PO
Out for Delivery expected by 9PM
Delivered at Mailbox
So it appeared as though it was actually delivered into my mailbox, but in reality, that did not happen! It was held, at USPS, along with all my other mail. I was so annoyed b/c eBay viewed it as Return Delivered & I was forced to refund Fake-SNAD buyer, a week before being home to inspect the package.
All my Informed Delivery stuff for the 2 weeks showed as though it was delivered too, in that I would get my daily updates. So, I know this isn't your situation, but I can tell you that in a situation where the scans rightfully should have said it was being held at the PO (b/c it really was), the Scans did NOT indicate that.
yuzuha
·2 years agoI'm pretty sure the "Held at post office, at customer request" refers to a request from the RECEIVER, not the sender-- that's the scan I see on packages when I put in a mail hold if I'm going to be out of town for the weekend. I don't think it's possible for the sender to do anything of that sort.
mam98031
·2 years agoVery odd indeed. Have you tried calling? They might be able to see something that you can't see on the tracking. I know it is a Federal Holiday today, but early tomorrow I'd call to see if they can tell you anything additional.
Find a reason to head to town tomorrow as soon as the PO opens and pick up the package, I would call first to make sure it is actually there. I wouldn't delay or it could end up costing you.
You are the one on the hook here as the way that tracking reads, Ebay will consider it as delivered to you, just as they would if it read that way for a buyer. It is in the MBG.
Evidence of successful delivery
We require all of the following to prove a successful on-time delivery:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210
lacemaker3
·2 years ago@gurlcat,
Edit: Sorry, I posted too soon. I see you are already aware of this, and on top of it. I would definitely go to the post office tomorrow when they are open, and try to pick it up.
a_c_green
·2 years agoNot exactly...
All the tracking, notifications and such are generated by scanning the barcode and using the details stored in the USPS database when that label was generated. None of that comes from what the printed address actually shows, and it's not difficult to modify the eBay Return label to show a different street address within the existing City and ZIP code. Delivery will actually be routed to whatever address is printed on the label, not what is represented by the barcode.
That delivery hold may be because the printed street address doesn't exist, or doesn't match the carrier route number printed on the label (that short code in an outlined box above and to the right of the address). In short, there was something goofy about it that prevented its sorting to you. I would go to your PO first thing on Friday morning, bring proper ID plus a printout of your tracking, and see if you can snag the package. I suspect it may not be addressed to you, so they may not let you have it or open it, but see what you can find out.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoOkay THIS is very interesting. So you're saying she may indeed have tried what my first instinct was, the "face mask" scam, AKA "right zip code, wrong address" thing, but it failed because she didn't use a viable address?
That would make sense except whenever I've seen those stories here in the forums, the scam buyers didn't use the seller-issued labels; they bought their own in order to populate the wrong address in that field, and uploaded that tracking number to the return, on eBay.
Now yes, she did get the label printed at the Dothan post office, but are you saying she got an employee to scan it from her phone and then go in and change the address but keep the same tracking number? -Even if they can (technically) do that, don't you think they'd suspect something, considering it's a STATED return label? To me it seems almost like taking a stolen paycheck to a bank and asking them to change who it's made out to. Even if a postal clerk MIGHT be careless enough to go along with it, it's hard to imagine the scammer daring it, rather than just pay a few bucks for their own label.
I don't know, I'm thinking "mail fraud federal offense" versus "some chance the seller will report to eBay CSR who'll have no awareness of the face mask scam and dismiss it because DELIVERED." But I suppose there are crooks who would be intelligent enough to figure out how to avoid paying a few bucks but not intelligent enough to consider the difference in potential consequences.
a_c_green
·2 years agoOh, okay, I missed that line stating that it was printed at the post office, so I don't think it's likely that the label was modified after all. See if it shows up tomorrow.
I had a similar incident just a couple of weeks back when a purchase I was expecting to receive (not a return) was supposed to be Out for Delivery to me, but then turned into that same Held at Post Office status (when of course I had not requested a hold at all).
I went in the next day to ask what was going on, and the clerk found it on their Hold shelf in back. It turned out that it had gone out on the wrong carrier route, and had to come back again. I guess once it gets put on the shelf, it stays there until the recipient comes to collect it. I was slightly miffed that I never got a pickup notice for it. If I didn't have an Informed Delivery account I don't know how long it could have sat there unnoticed (and at worst, sent back to the seller).
gurlcat
OP2 years agoHmmm, the situation with mine is kind of precarious because IF it's true that eBay considers the return 'delivered' from just an 'attempted' scan ... even though they are not (yet) telling me it's time to refund the buyer .... then it's possible the end of my allowed time to voluntarily refund might be the end of the day tomorrow. And this post office is closed on Saturdays, although I do still receive mail then. I guess the thing to do will be to check my Informed Delivery early tomorrow morning, to see if it gets another 'out for delivery' scan. If not .... go and face Brenda. (Ughuhuhghhuhhhh).
robbie31415
·2 years agoYeah.
It's a bit of a Grey area. However, I know for a fact that the buyer can contact eBay and they will most likely open a case and decide in buyer favor on the spot.
I've personally have contacted eBay 2 days after a delivery attempt and had them do just that.
So be cautious.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoSo, the seller's window to refund is 2 days (or 48hours?) -do I have that right? I don't get many returns and I've always refunded within a few hours of mail delivery so I've not needed this information so acutely before. And I JUST (like yesterday) found out that holiday/weekend hours do count in a buyer's time to pay for an auction win or accepted offer ..... up until that, I thought eBay regarded all time windows in the "business days" way, but apparently not. And since time to issue a refund is more like paying for an offer than it is like shipping according to handling time ... I fear today WOULD count .... IF eBay considers that package returned yesterday at 8:46 AM.
Ughuhuhhh-UGHUGHHUGUHHHGUHHHHHH!
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoUnless there's a crooked postal employee, that cannot happen. Once a QR code label is printed at the p.o., the customer isn't allowed to touch the package.
One time, I touched a label to press down where I thought it wasn't securely attached and it was explained to me that they're really strict that no one is to touch that label once the QR code has generated the label.
I'd assume it's to thwart the type of fraud being described.
adamcartwright
·2 years ago@albertabrightalberta
Thanks for educating me on that.
At my PO, they remove the package from customer reach immediately after the label is on, so I just stand there looking at it wishing I could reach over and press it down.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoSo, you and a couple others here recommended this ... and I can do it, but ..... okay have you ever watched Bob's Burgers? The awkward tween daughter Tina goes into a paralytic state and makes this garbled "UGHGHHUHHHH" sound whenever she finds something dreadful and daunting. -That's what I hear in my brain whenever I picture going to my post office, because of Brenda, the BEAST of all "I don't give a ____ about you" customer "service" clerks. I've written about her before -threw my box of live fish across the room, knowing there were live fish in it and smirked at me, terrible online reviews about her from lots of people, maybe knows her boss's closet skeletons or something because she's apparently un-firable.
If she's working Friday, what I picture is she won't even TRY to look it up; she'll say if I don't have a notice from my route carrier about the attempted delivery, it's not my business and not her problem.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoI have had "out for delivery" items that did not get to me that day.
Its possible mailman is off or delivery truck driver is off that day.
And usually item is received the next business day.
Possible something happen with driver of truck or your mailman.
I can't imagine buyer doing a held at post office.
Worst case scene I have had a return and had to pick it up at the post office since it had tracking.
I got to post office and clerk was handing me a dark bag with something liquid like in bag...I sell stamps.
I guess mailman didn't want to deliver it to me...I get tracking items from my mailman all the time.
I refused the return from the clerk at the post office from the buyer of course...and lost the profit.
What was in the dark bag...I'll never know!
adamcartwright
·2 years ago@12345jamesstamps
Okay, that's creepy.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoThis is a fascinating human study right here. ^ I don't usually appreciate a "there's two kinds of people" binary oversimplification thing, but it definitely applies here. There's two kinds of people -those who could or absolutely could NOT walk away without knowing what was in the dark bag. -I am of the latter camp; I would NEVER be able to stop wondering, in fact I'll likely be a bit haunted by-proxy for a few days, just from reading that!
If the buyer was of the cantankerous sort, I have the most obvious guess what the liquid could be, but considering shipping liquids adds an automatic complication, why send the lemonade instead of the fudge? Ugh, if it was methyl bromide or something awful like that, then that's where my cat curiosity would get me.
But for now I'm curious about this: would checking the contents at the desk cancel your ability to refuse "receipt" of the package?
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoI was doing auctions a while back on stamps.
I caught this bidder using 2 different ebay ID's...had about 25 bid retractions on one eBay ID before auctions were over.
Thus a number of auctions went for little money.
I blocked this person before ending of auctions.
But this bidder managed to grab a few of my auctions.
A few winning auctions with different eBay IDs but the same address.
That's when I did a shout out to this bidder.
We got into it back and forth.
Buyer did a return and if the mailman refused to mail it...I refused to accept it.
And yes, I lost quite a bit of money refusing the baggie.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years ago@gurlcat
I'd call directly to the p.o. in 36604 (Phone | 251-432-0270) early Friday morning. (I've heard it recommended to call around 6 am to catch them before the carriers leave with their daily deliveries. If you wait until later, they can get too busy to answer the phone.)
Have them look at the tracking and answer your questions. I've had decent successes in calling directly to the postmaster when there are issues.
tealt
·2 years agoI am with @pcobra93 .
To me, this has all the earmarks of one of those USPS “thingsâ€.
It wouldn’t be unusual, I’d think, for a regular carrier to take a day off before a major holiday weekend. Perhaps you had a very confused sub on your route, or there were too many packages to fit on the truck (as suggested above), or a confused sub couldn’t find your package in the truck, or the truck broke down first thing in the morning, or…
But, I enjoy conspiracy theories, and maybe your buyer is indeed a talented scammer.
sextons-sweet-deals
·2 years agoI wonder if the buyer shipped back with signature required.
photo shows Delivery Attempted.
sextons-sweet-deals
·2 years agofollowing up on my previous post.
If they sent with signature required, you should have had a notice in your mailbox or maybe at your door.
The other possibilities could be they sent C.O.D. if that is still an option with USPS or sent you something back that was heavier (a brick) and additional postage is due.
I do have a feeling that the buyer may be trying to scam since silver is involved.
Let us know the outcome of this.
gurlcat
OP2 years agoI definitely didn't have a notice like a missed signature required delivery (I have had those in the past but there was no note for this). And I can't stress enough that there's no way the mailman was at my house that early. Once in a blue moon I might get mail before noon, but nevvvver in the 8 o'clock hour.
dare-2046
·2 years agoSo this eBay Track Package is all kinds of wrong, including it wasn't
-- "Return shipped to you" "Fri, Jun 28" like it says, but it was actually Jul 1?
gurlcat
OP2 years agoRight. I just accepted the return and sent her label on the 28th. She didn't even print it until the 1st (at the post office).
dirk12955
·2 years agoBeing a cynical cuss, I wonder if it was just to inconvenience you
Or, A wrong scan. We do see wrong scans.
pcobra93
·2 years agoThis could be some scam, however I have seen the "delivery attempted" several times.....and it is when a route carrier has too many packages to fit on their truck that day and just want to give it some sort of scan to satisfy their internal audits.... ridiculous I know but this was told to me by my postmaster lady. We are a small post office and they often get more packages than they can physically deliver in a day....so they push some off to the next day. I bet your package is delivered tomorrow but what is inside will be a different posting I am sure...
gurlcat
OP2 years agoThank you, I bet it is just some innocent thing like that, ha. I know a lot of goofy scan activity has to do with audits and not wanting to be "that" facility. -Bonuses and promotions involved, if the retired carrier I talked to was to be believed.
I'm getting a lot of entertainment out of this buyer, to be honest. I enjoy the mystery of it, like is she just very dumb and incompetent, or a master scammer who'll get me one way or another?? I go back and forth on it! 🤣
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoSomewhat more common on rural routes where the carrier is a contract driver, not a USPS employee.
Similar issues occur on FEDEX Ground where the drivers are employed by an independent contractor.