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another authentication problem
I recently had listed a gorgeous 1820s Georgian memorial ring. I had taken the ring to my jewelers to discuss the main stone. Because the stone is mounted in a closed back ring, he couldnt do the normal testing. He felt strongly that is was an aquamarine. I listed the item and put in the description that I couldnt guarantee the stone. It went to the authenticators who had it over a week. I got a message that it was being returned, not as described. When actually it did pass (and the authenticators said it did.) Apparently The GIA lab was able to test the stone and it came back as BERYL. They needed to contact the buyer to let him know and the buyer never responded. After 4 days Ebay put a hold on my funds has sent me back the ring. All of the messages that I had gotten from ebay made me feel as if I had cheated someone. There was no explanation in my emails. I had to call ebay to find out what happened. I have relisted the ring, with the proper description. I was told by the ebay rep that I had over described the ring and I shouldnt do that when selling vintage jewelery. WTH....any other time ebay gets you for not giving out enough info. EBAY needs to do better at communicating with sellers as to issues at hand. If they would have told me I would have contacted the buyer directly instead of relying on there messaging service. EBAY HAS TAKEN ALL OF THE FUN OUT OF SELLING. IVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 25 YEARS AND ITS GETTING WORSE BY THE DAY.L
kh-vince
·1 year agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
adamcartwright
·1 year ago@junkmom2
I do understand what they mean here.
If their job is to authenticate the item against your description in the listing, then over-describing it could complicate matters.
What a beautiful ring, though. Frustrating how colors don't always show true in our listing photos.
idealgems1
·1 year agoAt the risk of seeming like I am piling on GIA, another thing occurred to me. Most aquamarine today is heated in order to drive away greenish hues, leaving a more desirable/salable truer blue hue. Your beautiful antique ring has a gem that certainly predates this as a common treatment for aqua. Ergo, a greener hue of aquamarine should be altogether expected on a piece like yours.
It should be noted that gemstone color preferences are very individual. We had a great Brazilian gem dealer that would occasionally offer us unheated, slightly greenish aquamarine...he would say "de la boca de mina" (from the mouth of the mine). We always thought we were getting something special when he would have that available!
As for GIA, as I said, they might have some objective color comparison that dictates what they call aquamarine. In addition to test stones like they use for diamond comparison, GIA had a tool consisting of plastic comparison gems called the GIA GemSet. Who knows what advanced technology they may have replaced that with. But I still think their determination was wrong here.
idealgems1
·1 year agoThanks @wastingtime101 ! As a GIA-trained Graduate Gemologist, I would have been upset with their finding if I were in your shoes. AQUAMARINE IS A VARIETY OF BERYL!!! Beryl colors are blue ~ aquamarine, deep green ~ emerald, yellow ~ heliodor (or golden beryl), pink~ morganite, colorless ~ goshenite, etc.
So, they are quibbling that it does not have enough blue or blue-green to be the variety aquamarine. This is really being overly picky, IMHO. To be fair, they may have some set color hue test that makes that determination; I don't know. But to me...have you ever seen ocean water the color of your gem? I have. The root of the name aquamarine is obviously sea water.
Your stone is not a beautiful "gem" aquamarine color. And of course, they are clearly authenticating to make sure the process is fair to the buyer. But to deny it because it is not blue enough after you attempted to say you couldn't be absolutely sure about the stone, really seems unfair to the seller.
I'll say one more thing on the subject. Very light-colored aquamarine is very often sold at the wholesale level in larger parcels of many gemstones all in one parcel paper. When you look at the entire parcel, it will have a nice, pleasing blue color. But pick out any individual gemstone and examine it on its own, and you will have to study it carefully on a white background to discern ANY blue color at all. This is kind of a gem dealer "trick".
If you were to place your gem in a parcel with dozens of like colored stones, I'll bet the parcel would be a pleasing blue-green...a color they would be quick to call "aquamarine". I think my alma mater dropped the ball on this one!!!
junkmom2
OP1 year agoThanks so much for the response. I totally agree with you. This is the response that I received from eBay. I call and talked to the dept who handle this and I was told it was 2 fold. 1st..the stone checked as a Berly, 2nd there was no response from the buyer so after 4 days it was returned to me.
jklfindings
·1 year agoThis is one of those instances where the authentication program is doing more harm than good. Overall the program has made the jewelry category so much better, but then there's these issues that keep popping up, where the authenticator is being waaaay overly picky. If that "beryl" was being sold by a big box store or brand name, it would be called an Aquamarine.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoTagging in @idealgems1 as I think they'll be interested in this discussion.
krazzykats
·1 year agoPerhaps my color perception is not accurate, but I do not see any aquamarine hues. It more like a gray-colored glass stone, whatever that may be.
Shouldn't aquamarine exhibit a somewhat bluish or greenish tint?
Maybe better pictures of the stones coloring? Or am I looking at the wrong ring?
fashunu4eeuh
·1 year ago@krazzykats Viewed the sold listing and my perception is like yours. The stone looked rather clear but with a grey sheen. Gorgeous ring though!
@junkmom2 Your listings are fantastic! Great photos, attention to detail, good use of Item Specifics, gorgeous items of beautiful quality. My only notes are 1) the color of the gemstones look dark to me, such as the sapphire ring—the main stone looks black (see screenshot below). (Viewing the listings in the app on my Apple smartphone 14.), and
2) you have No Returns selected. That can open a window for a determined unhappy buyer. If he wants a refund and sees no returns, he may go straight to a Money Back Guarantee claim, with its accompanying penalties. i do understand the appeal of choosing No Returns. It’s a decision every seller faces.
Wish you much continued success!
 
junkmom2
OP1 year agoI have added a pic with light shining thru the stones. This is not a high quality ring so the sapphires are darker. The reason for no returns. I had issues with people just returning stuff. If I sell an item and its not as described I will always refund. Thank you for looking and giving me your thoughts.
junkmom2
OP1 year agoIts a steely grey blue stone. it was determined that I was incorrect. Stones can be very hard to photograph.
Its crazy but aquamarines can be beryls.
krazzykats
·1 year agoYes, but all the aquamarine beryls I looked at showed a little more blue or green....just saying...still a lovely ring.
So, this looks ash gray, what does everyone else think? Have you tried other colored backgrounds to see if it looks blue or green?
junkmom2
OP1 year agoIm going by what the GIA lab tested it as...They said Beryl so its Beryl. It still may not be an aquamarine so that has been removed from my listing. But it is a Beryl. Im not able to get the color any better.
junkmom2
OP1 year agofashunu4eeuh
·1 year agoThat is beautiful, @junkmom2 . Nicely done.
krazzykats
·1 year agoBeautiful! Yes, now it shows more correct colors. And I see the green! ðŸ˜
luckythewinner
·1 year agoYour title says it is aquamarine, your item specifics say it is aquamarine, and your description says you are not sure if it is aquamarine.
Your listing violates eBay policy and should never have been allowed on the site to start with. I am surprised the authentication service did not reject it within 30 seconds of reviewing it.
junkmom2
OP1 year agoYou are correct, I did that. My bad. It surely wont happen again. I wont speculate on items either, I will only sell things that I know 100 percent about. I have no issues with someone returning an item that is not as described. BTW..and aquarmine is a beryl. But not all Beryl are aquamarines.
junkmom2
OP1 year agoNOT HELPFUL AT ALL
PLEASE DONT BE A PART OF THE PROBLEM
I CAME HERE FOR ASSISTANCE AND NOT TO BE BASHED
fashunu4eeuh
·1 year agoHi @junkmom2 , to clarify, most responders here are experienced sellers. But some use posting IDs to protect their selling accounts from being sabotaged.
@luckythewinner is a long-time seller and valuable voice in the community.
(Sadly there are those who take offense to advice given and lash out. It happens on occasion.) I use a posting ID myself, tho It makes me less credible as a participant, which i regret. But just too many lost souls out there for me to take the chance.
junkmom2
OP1 year agoI was not aware of that fact but I am now. I shouldnt have assumed. My bad. But I did come here for some assistance, but not to bash me for what I did. My description was as accurate as I could make it.
fern*wood
·1 year agoMost of us do come here for assistance, but that doesn't mean what we hear is always what we want to hear or delivered with finesse. Sometimes others can see something in a different way, which may be helpful too. I've never been disappointed in the help offered here and try my best to show gratitude. (I am always free to ignore advice which doesn't help me or that I don't wish to do.)
fashunu4eeuh
·1 year ago@junkmom2 wrote:
“was told by the ebay rep that I had over described the ring and I shouldnt do that when selling vintage jewelery.â€
That person is misguided and likely has never sold items on the internet, where the buyer must rely on a secondary description since they cannot observe it first-hand.
junkmom2
OP1 year agoI agree, I have always tried to add as much info as possible. Ive never tried to hide or misguide anyone. I was floored by the remark.
tobaccocardyahoo
·1 year agoSo Ebay's authenticator could not tell if the stone was aquamarine and identified it as beryl.
So your description was not 100% correct.
The sale is gone with minimum hassle. You can list the item again, though another authenticator at GIA might choose another set of words to deal with the ambiguity which is going to exist.
Many businesses come with ambiguities and authenticators are rotten at dealing with ambiguity. The uncommon and rare are often sufficiently so that authenticators have not seen them before and therefore are not going to provide a definitive statement which will reassure a timid and untrusting buyer. Happens with other third party graders/authenticators in other categories as well.
Accept the fact that buyers are both less trusting and more ignorant in 2025 than the were in the past. This is true not only on Ebay, as we see third party authentication become more and more a requirement of selling valuable items.
pastimpressions
·1 year agoAll Aquamarine is Beryl, not all Beryl is Aquamarine.
Unless I missed something here (and I am more than open for correction) the findings of the eBay crack authentication team that sent this ring back to the seller did not necessarily do the correct thing.
They correctly identified the stone as a Beryl. Did they preclude the possibility that it was an Aquamarine?
Does every seller of Aquamarine jewelry (or Emerald for that matter, or any type of Beryl, etc., etc.) on this platform now have to hedge their bets and list all their Beryl family of jewelry as simply "Beryl" or face the wrath & whim of the authentication team?
Aristophanes
junkmom2
OP1 year agoNo they did not. I try to be as honest as I can. Im not here to deceive.
junkmom2
OP1 year agoApparently.
jewelbiz
·1 year agoTo me the center stone looks cracked as if in 1 split second it can disintegrate.
I also think your price is too high.
(Been a NYC jewelry dealer on 47th street for 40 years)
junkmom2
OP1 year agoNo cracks in the stone. It was judged authentic , and they told me so but my stone description was not accurate. But I had also said that in the ebay listing. I was told to basically not say anything about and just sell it as a gold ring. So sorry you dont like my pricing. But I start high so I can come down. But I have found many more rings listed as 9k that are asking more. It will sell again. I have no worries about that..
junkmom2
OP1 year agoIf it were cracked I GUARANTEE the authenticators would have noticed...lol
junkmom2
OP1 year agoNot helpful BTW.
junkmom2
OP1 year agoThe ring was not split or damaged in any form. I sold the ring to a private buyer for much more than on ebay. I guess you dont sell the right kind of jewelry.
simba6
·1 year agoHe felt strongly that is was an aquamarine. That was a risk you took.
junkmom2
OP1 year agoI felt I had to describe it the best I could. It was not glass. I also fully disclosed that I couldnt verify the type of stone. My bad for trying to do my best.
caldreamer
·1 year agoI have made jewelry for years and never heard of beryl so I did a search of Wikipedia and other sites. Turns out there are different kinds of beryl (including Aquamarine and Emerald). Sounds like your local jewelry was correct when he said your ring is Aquamarine. https://rockchasing.com/types-of-beryl/
junkmom2
OP1 year agoI agree but the authenticators though otherwise.
rokkworks
·1 year agoSorry this happened to you.
But…it’s a gorgeous ring, and honestly, you got it tested by the exact place that’s going to test it again when it sells. I’d be really happy about that.
You got emails from eBay that hurt your feelings, I understand that, I’ve been there too, but keep in mind, only YOU saw those, no one else.
Now you’ve relisted the ring, it looks great in your photos, and I predict will sell.
It’s not the type of stone that will sell that ring, so much as the incredibly beautiful setting and the rarity. I’d also add any minimal monetary shortfall from the previous sale, into the price while you can, if it makes you feel better. Also, I’d take out EXC and add “estate†if you can fit it. It makes searching easier for buyers.
good luck!