Am I understanding this right?
So let me get this straight..... if I use Promoted Listings to let's say... "promote a listing", I get to pay a percentage of my total sale to eBay for each and every time a buyer clicks on one of my PL listings and makes a purchase? Yet, at the same time, eBay loads my listing page with Sponsored listings from my competitors which can take a buyer off the page I'm paying to promote...with a single click??
56 comments
jasoheat_0
·3 years agoi've been using promoted listings ever since Devin ( the previous CEO ) starting implementing them , they use to work really well , items would sell in a couple of days to a week or so , now a days it takes months to sell an item on ebay using promoted listings ( in my opinion thats useless as items that werent npromoted took that long to sell ) , and every since march there has been a huge outcry of slow sales and visibility ( slow down is normal but going from a couple thousand a month to a few hundred thats not normal ) , back to my point ever since Ian ( the new CEO ) started messing with promoted listings ( pls remember its the only revenue stream increasing on ebay as GMV is down to where it was in 2013 and total active buyers are down by 25% ( thats a loss ) since 2019 ( 5 years ) ) the visibility with promoted listing have gotten worse and worse ( some people will say more competition is it though as the site is down by 25% ) , if you choose to promote ( do not rely on them ) from my experience they hardly help any more( i only promote a small percentage of items nows ) , and as far as auctions , every time i thought about promoting an auction the price was so high theres no way i would , please remember that ebay really has pushed hard over to be like amazon ( Devin did this , and remember amazon does not do auctions) in my opinion auctions are almost worthless 99% of the time , unless you have an extremely rare and desirable item and then i would not start an auction for anything less than what i was willing to sell for , this platform all in all is still ok to sell on but there are so many issues and so many other platforms now ( diversify to as many platforms as you can ) , good luck
mam98031
·3 years ago@jasoheat_0
As has previously been brought to your attention, our current CEO's name is NOT Ian. It is Jamie. So either you are confused who the CEO is or you are continuing to call him by a different name for other reasons.
"...started messing with promoted listings..." What does this mean? How were they messed with?
As for auctions, they really died off about 10 years ago in most categories. This is not news. There are a handful of categories they seem to still work in, but in most they don't. Auctions are less than 20% for all listings on Ebay and have been for years. They just aren't a major contender anymore, mostly due to how most buyers like to shop. They just want to come in, find what they want, purchase it and move on to the next thing.
No other site [that survived] similar to Ebay does auctions. Ebay and Amazon are completely different types of sites.
jasoheat_0
·3 years agoas i have stated before to you NOT TO TALK TO ME ... so stop i could careless what you think , youve been rude and insulting to me the first time several years ago SO STOP for the last time or i will report you and there are many instances i have stated that to STOP ... could careless what you think ... good day FOR THE LAST TIME
mam98031
·3 years agoI don't know what you are referring to. What happened several years ago?
OK, I'll leave you alone.
allthings-collectible
OP3 years agoThis is, (in my opinion) another eBay "money grab". eBay execs, have already shown the world what they were willing to do to prevent their insatiable greed from being exposed. Oh sure, you can get rid of a few bad apples, but the current mindset and attitude toward the lifeblood of their platform (individual sellers) is NOT what it was even 10-yrs ago. Instead of building upon the uniqueness of what made eBay great, hatchet men were finally let in the door to protect their shareholders. I can only imagine that this was probably part of a desperate act of damage-control after what happened in the fall of 2022. This would make sense as it also coincides with numerous platform changes, glitches and an extensive marketing campaign aimed at sellers in order to justify them as "benifitial tools". Sadly, eBay is now just another marketplace that happens to have the same name as they did 28-yrs ago.
isaiah53-57
·3 years agoIsnt it crazy how some person posting here thinks you can just arbitrarily make the price of your item be whatever you want it to be regardless of worth or value to compensate for costs to the item - now THAT is just plain silly - and whats more silly is that person posts senseless comments JUST LIKE THAT all the time...
mam98031
·3 years agoI would be the "some Person" you are referring to and you are doing it again. Twisting what I said. Stop posting like that. I'm more than willing to have a civil discussion with you as long as things aren't made up along the way.
mam98031
·3 years agoAgain, if you are going to increase the amount you pay Ebay for a sale using PLS or any other tool that adds costs to your sale, you have to consider this when you set your pricing of the product. You don't leave your price the same as it was when you had 13.25% FVF. That is just plain silly.
isaiah53-57
·3 years agoSo let me get this straight.... if I use Promoted Listings to Let's say.... "promote a listing" using ebays recommended rate of say 10%, I get to pay eBay 23.25% of my TOTAL SALE including shipping and sales tax?
And if I owned the item for 1/2 of what I sold it for, that could easily equate to ebay taking close to or even over 65% of my profit, leaving me about 35% of the profit to cover all the rest of the expenses of the sale, and take ALL the risk?? And really the little I have left is not really mine until 6 months down the road, after my sale passes through all the fiery hoops of buyer fraud and chargebacks???
Well....And here I was thinking Promoted Listings was a nasty, self-defeating program....
sextons-sweet-deals
·3 years agoI will never use it. I believe that the majority of people shopping on eBay are going to do their homework and search for the best price, quality, condition, shipping cost, ask questions if needed, and review the sellers feedback status.
Now this pay per click view I still don't understand in full and I'm not going to research for the next 30 minutes plus to figure it out. What if the same shopper clicks on your promoted PLA version listing 10 times? Is that 10 clicks in fees or considered 1 click because it is the same shopper?
If the 10 clicks count towards fees, I can see this as a retaliation tactic from a previous shopper / buyer, competitor, or worse yet, a person who does not like your comments on this board.
Open for comments so I can understand better from you pros.
mam98031
·3 years ago@sextons-sweet-deals
Three DIFFERENT policies.
PLS = Promoted Listings Standard
Promoted Listings Advanced
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/listing-tips/promoted-listings-advanced?id=5299#:~:text=P....
Make sure you read them closely so you can see which one is better suited for you and what you sell. There is no right or wrong answer. Just which tool, if either of them, are good for you. It is an individual decision.
There is a third one called Promoted Listings Express. The following link may help you more information.
https://export.ebay.com/en/marketing/promote-listings/how-to-choose-the-right-campaign-type/
PLE = Promoted Listings Express
sextons-sweet-deals
·3 years agoI glanced and it still does answer my questions:
If the 10 clicks count towards fees, I can see this as a retaliation tactic from a previous shopper / buyer, competitor, or worse yet, a person who does not like your comments on this board.
mam98031
·3 years agoYou are looking at a newer program called PLA. I explained this is my post to you. There are THREE versions of this program. Most sellers are using PLS which is the standard version. You are quoting from the Advanced version.
While I personally would not use PLA, my guess would be that Ebay has a bot in place to tell if there is some tactics being used by a competitor or problematic buyer.
stuff4divas
·3 years ago@allthings-collectible it also works in reverse, your listing show up on other seller's listings
huntfishdie45
·3 years agoWinner Winner Chicken Dinner! You have a firm grasp of the situation!
jasoheat_0
·3 years agoit use to work for me when Devin ( the previous CEO ) invented the promoted listings on ebay ( which was from an amazon play book ) but the last three months i have seen my views and sales drop every month , so this month i cancelled all my promoted ads , and my sales have not changed ( thats my experience , to me its useless any longer ) mind you all my listings were promoted , i sell more off ebay now then i sell on ebay , sad but true , ebay is number 3 on my list to sell from , use to be number 1 but they lost that position last year , SAD but true
pnwgooddeals
·3 years agoThat’s the tip of the iceberg lol. Wait till it actually sells and you get to see your net take on it! Anything worth of value it’s better to sell on the other sites. eBay’s greed will be their fall as now there’s competition!
jasoheat_0
·3 years agoand theres plenty of competition , i sell more off ebay now then on Ebay , last year ebay moved to 3rd position for me ( for selling platforms ) Christmas was a defining moment for me on ebay
mam98031
·3 years ago@pnwgooddeals
Greed. Always an interesting word to be used in the context.
Did Ebay create this site to make money? Absolutely YES.
Do sellers come here to sell stuff to make money? Absolutely YES.
So if we are all here for the same purpose, it appears to me that we are all Greedy. That would just be logical.
Does Ebay continue to come up with new ways and new tools they can charge for to make more money?
Absolutely YES.
Do seller continually look for inventory and stuff they can sell to make more money? Absolutely YES.
Oh this is just getting out of hand, I can't stand the logic of it. I am so surprised to know that we are all Greedy because we are here to make money.
If you concern is that the sellers that are using the TOOL, which is a choice for the seller, that they somehow aren't going to make as much money. The sellers also make the CHOICE of what percentage that is at least 2% or above they are willing to pay in addition to the regular FVFs. And most sellers understand they would need to increase their product price to cover the additional fees if it were to sell. So sellers should be just fine if they are doing their jobs.
luckythewinner
·3 years agoWhen eBay makes money, it is "greed". When the seller makes money it is "reasonable profit" 🤣
thebookee
·3 years agoWhen does making. A few extra dollars translate to greed?
isaiah53-57
·3 years agoIf everybody did as you suggest here, this site would be priced out of the market - I'm pretty sure inflated prices on the site is ALREADY one of the many reasons for the current trend in loss of users and GMV and your solution is to raise them more to compensate for ever increasing fees - Great idea - lets see where that puts the site a few years from now when PLs become more essential and less of a choice as they really begin their desired effect of ramping up seller desperation and paranoia...
mam98031
·3 years agoThat would assume that everyone was using the PLS, when that isn't even close to being accurate. Ebay's income from PLS in the first Quarter of 2023 was 1% of their total sales.
All I explained was what most sellers already know. When pricing an item to be sold on this site, you must consider all your costs, tack your profit on it and then you have the amount you need to sell it for.
If there are some sellers that choose to use PLS and come out of pocket to cover the fee rate they choose for the item, that is a decision for each seller. Some may have a big enough profit margin on the item to absorb it others won't.
Still it is in the hands of the seller, which is where it should be and it should remain.
isaiah53-57
·3 years agoIf most sellers ALREADY KNOW it, why feel the need to explain - Its exactly what I said in the past about your other posts explaing the known and obvious as though you just came up with the idea...
And what does this even mean?
"When pricing an item to be sold on this site, you must consider all your costs, tack your profit on it and then you have the amount you need to sell it for."
What business on earth does things in this fashion? So you think you can just sell something for whatever the heck you want - Things have values and worth - Just like what @my-cottage-books-and-antiques already surmised, you earn your profit by properly sourcing the product(unless you are creating a product from scratch). You cant just arbitrarily make a product be a certain price in order to compensate for costs and the profit you feel you need to make - Value and worth will stop you in your tracks if you use this as a business model - Sure you may get some organic sales on over-priced items from unsavy buyers, but it is scaring off new business from people doing google searches when they see ebay items higher than anywhere else...
The whole point being, the site is driving up item pricing by digging ever deeper and now wants to put control over fees into the hands of OVERLY desperate sellers? how do you think that's going to end? - Actually, please dont answer that last question - it will only make my head hurt...
rugerskick
·3 years agoOther sites actually work to get sellers items sold, so that they make money from the sale.
Ebay just devises plans and schemes to take more money from sellers, regardless if they help them sell their items.
Its quite a radical difference in mindset and philosophy.
mam98031
·3 years agoAs many times as it has been explained to you, you just refuse to consider anything but what you have set in your mind.
isaiah53-57
·3 years ago"You are doing it again". I'm sure @rugerskick would be "more than willing to have a civil discussion" if you would stop berating his opinions with your condescending attitude...
mam98031
·3 years agoYou make such assumptions. It really isn't necessary.
isaiah53-57
·3 years agoNo, what I wrote is called logic and deductive reasoning...
What you wrote in your later post?
"Still it is in the hands of the seller, which is where it should be and it should remain."
Now thats an assumption...
Its an assumption, because you assume leaving control over what the seller sets as a rate(up to 100% mind you) is better than having controlled rate increases - Logic and deductive reasoning will prove you wrong most emphatically because your assumption is severely flawed. Controlled rate increases are much more easily adjusted to and there is no guess work as to what rate you should be using - With this crazy scheme everyone using the program is trying to "ONE UP" everyone else(even those not using it). With controlled rate increases, you may see a 1/3 to 1/2 a point increase - with this crazy program people can run the rates up in out of control fashion based on desperation and paranoia.
And again, you ASSUME that what I wrote "assume(s) that everyone was using the PLS" Never stated it, and what I wrote doesnt even come close to implying it - What I wrote doesnt have to - The eventuality of a program like PLs is that EVEN THE THREAT of the program will drive the program - There is absolutely NO control over it - You dont have to use it to be threatened by it - All you need is a time frame of slow or no sales and BAM! the blame goes to PLs - Then the seller believes they must also use it to compete - And when they start using it at 2% and another slow or no sales drought comes BAM! they up it to 4% - This board is seeing more posts that confirm EXACTLY this - EVERYONE Doesnt need to use it to ruin the site - But the eventuality is everyone will need to use it in some form just to function here, because it appears the site is running with it - ITS THE NEW RATE INCREASE - Lets revisit this post 2 years from now and see where things are then - I guarantee you my logic and deductive reasoning will stand the test of time better than you assumptions based on a need to be right...
rugerskick
·3 years agoPerhaps you should follow your own advice. You have a good one.
luckythewinner
·3 years agoYou are not paying to promote a "page".
You are paying to promote a listing.
And that includes the times when it is your listing that is appearing on someone else's listing.
mam98031
·3 years agoGreat Questions. You are talking about Promoted Listing Advanced NOT to be confused with Promoted Listings Standard. Two DIFFERENT policies with two different ways of calculating fees.
PLS = Promoted Listings Standard
Promoted Listings Advanced
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/listing-tips/promoted-listings-advanced?id=5299#:~:text=Promoted%20Listings%20Advanced%20is%20a,search%20for%20items%20like%20yours.
Make sure you read them closely so you can see which one is better suited for you and what you sell. There is no right or wrong answer. Just which tool, if either of them, are good for you. It is an individual decision.
There is a third one called Promoted Listings Express. The following link may help you more information.
https://export.ebay.com/en/marketing/promote-listings/how-to-choose-the-right-campaign-type/
PLE = Promoted Listings Express
itemresa
·3 years agoeBay has 3 versions of promoted listings:
Promoted Listing Standard (PLS) - Fixed priced listings only. Seller sets an ad rate and only pays when the item sells, seller doesn't pay if the listing is ended without a sale.
Promoted Listing Advanced (PLA) - Fixed price listings only. The pay-per-click version. Seller sets an ad rate and when the item sells or ends the seller pays that rate for all qualifying clicks on the listing. Listings using PLA are given more exposure than listings using PLS.
Promoted Listing Express (PLE) - Auction listings only. Seller pays an upfront fee determined by eBay when the auction goes live. The fee is not refunded if the item doesn't sell.
Those ads for other sellers' items that you see on your listing are promoted listings (listings that aren't promoted will never appear on other sellers' listings), if you choose to promote your listing it might show up on other sellers' listings. You can increase the likelihood of this by setting higher ad rates (PLS & PLA).
allthings-collectible
OP3 years agoThis seems like eBay is pitting sellers against each other in order to drive ad revenue. Is that legal?
albertabrightalberta
·3 years agoyes, it's legal.
mam98031
·3 years agoIt really isn't pitting seller against seller. Promoted listings are popular in the categories that are just saturated with listings. It is a way to get your items seen over the millions of other listings. It is just a tool, nothing more than a tool. One that has been a part of retail selling for many years. It is just now getting applied to internet sales more frequently as internet sales continue to grow and change.
huntfishdie45
·3 years agoYes it's a tool, like an arsonist selling buckets of water.
mam98031
·3 years agoNot apples to apples, but I'm sure you didn't mean it to be.
But lets just say you are serious. Here are OTHER TOOLS Ebay offers.
Cancellation for non paying bidders.
Variation Listing
Stores
EIS
Listing Enhancements [there are a few different tools]
Calculated Shipping
Business Tools
Bulk Editor
Markdown Manager
Coupons
Send Offers
ETC. ETC.
Those are just a few. All are optional. You don't like PLS, then you don't have to use it. It is just that simple.
luckythewinner
·3 years agoCompetition in retail is not illegal.
m60driver
·3 years agoNor is advertising illegal and PL is just another form of advertising and advertising has always cost money. For those selling in competitive categories or competitive items advertising has long been necessary. Welcome to retail.
Unavailable member
·3 years agoYes t's legal..it's also called competitive selling.
jasoheat_0
·3 years agothey dont care
sumsum70
·3 years agoIt is exactly what they are doing and is the main reason nobody should use it.
It seems like the online marketplace version of skill-gaming site worldwinner. They host tournaments where players pay an entry fee and can win money. The site takes a cut of every tournament. The site tries to closely match players based on their skill. So everyone at the same skill level wins half of the time and loses half of the time. If their algorithm runs near 100% of the intended outcome, nobody makes money but worldwinner.
eBay hosts online selling. They take a cut of every sale. They try to convince sellers they need to pay extra to promote. If everyone eventually promotes as eBay wants, nobody makes money but eBay.
mam98031
·3 years ago@sumsum70
"eBay hosts online selling. They take a cut of every sale. They try to convince sellers they need to pay extra to promote. If everyone eventually promotes as eBay wants, nobody makes money but eBay. "
The purpose that Ebay was created was to make money. That was the whole purpose of creating this site. And YES Ebay should be paid for every single transaction that happens on THEIR site. They have every right to expect to be paid for their services. That is nothing shameful like some want it to seem.
Ebay doesn't make money unless the item sells. So if the item sells then the seller is making money too. It isn't one sided, both Ebay and the seller make money.
IDK why you ASSUME the seller would not make on a Promoted Transaction. That is what makes no sense. The seller chooses what percentage they want to pay in extra fees. That is all on the Seller. The seller would then raise the price of the item they are selling to cover the additional fees. I suppose if the seller already has a large profit built into the price of the item they may not choose to raise the pricing more to accommodate the additional fees. But again that would be the Sellers choice not something forced on them by anyone.
sumsum70
·3 years agoThe seller would then raise the price of the item they are selling to cover the additional fees.
And how long does the cycle of paying more to eBay and raising prices to make up for it remain viable? There are only two final results to that approach - either your investment in PL becomes a waste of money because buyers choose sellers who don't promote and can afford to sell for less, OR eBay succeeds in suppressing visibility and buyers only see high prices and buy on another site.
All of the pro-eBay nonsense on this and many other subjects is moronic.
Sellers already pay a fee. Every seller who pays that fee should, not withstanding a track record of defects, have the same opportunity to sell. Trying to get squeeze more out of sellers and tweaking the search to prefer voluntarily extorted sellers over sellers who won't pay, is a scam in my opinion.
Everyone agreeing to pay the ransom is just giving eBay incentives to make it more effective - for eBay, not sellers. If sellers start accepting it as fact that PL is necessary and more people do it and eBay keeps playing stupid games with search results and plastering ads all over pages, you're all just giving eBay free reign to fleece sellers instead of make meaningful improvements.
That is my final words on PL and I will not revisit this. The usual suspects can tout the eBay propaganda for the next 72 hours without rebuttal from me, I'm heading to my kids' soccer tournament for the weekend.
mam98031
·3 years agoIt is fine not to like PLS, we don't all have to use it. But it isn't an unusual vehicle for selling stuff. It has been around a very long time. As to your question about how long it will last. It will last as long as it makes money for both Ebay and the sellers.
"All of the pro-eBay nonsense on this and many other subjects is moronic." It isn't "pro Ebay", it is a discussion of FACTS about a single tool Ebay is offering to sellers. That is all it is. I don't currently use any form of PLS as I'm not fond of the tool myself. But that doesn't mean I don't understand it. Likely with a better understanding for you, it would help.
There is that word again "scam", incorrectly used yet again. Have you ever looked up the definition of that word? It simply doesn't apply to the subject of this conversation.
It isn't a "ransom" either. Again you need to look at the definition of that word as it also doesn't apply to this conversation. Ebay makes no guarantees that PLS listing will sell. And as many sellers that actually uses the PLS tool has said, their stuff isn't selling even with the boosts received with PLS.
We all have choices to make on this site. Ebay offers all kinds of different tools on different subjects. Sellers just need to decide what works best for them. Not for you or me but the individual sellers.
pls-consignments
·3 years agoWhat choice do I have if I choose not to give up more of my profit to eBay??
fashunu4eeuh
·3 years ago“Trying to get squeeze more out of sellers and tweaking the search to prefer voluntarily extorted sellers over sellers who won't pay, is a scam in my opinion…â€
Hi @sumsum70 First, hope your soccer son or daughter wins the day at their tournament.
Just wanted to say i do not use promoted listings on most of my items, and have not experienced a deficit in those non-promoted items’ sales.
eBay’s Search result parameters are not disclosed, so we can only guess at how those results may be manipulated. Promoted listings get a boost in placement, but that doesn’t necessarily follow that it is at the expense of non-promoted listings.
To compete with the promoted listings, my listings follow eBay’s best practices, and have been fully optimized to enhance search engine placement. The use of social media to draw eyes to my listings has also been effective. These measures have improved my eBay result placement over time and are probably the reason my listings are usually high in Search results despite being non-promoted.
Just my two cents.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·3 years ago@fashunu4eeuh
You mention the effectiveness of social media to drive traffic. What social media do you use? I have a FB business account and an Instagram account and Pinterest, but haven't done much with any of it, and have not been at all consistent.
Any tips you might want to provide would be helpful. I do know ebay stores now have a social media tool, and have used it a bit. I also have suggested to ebay that they add a Community Board for sellers to exchange social media tips etc, but I'm not holding my breath on that....
joseh1445
·3 years agoIf you like it, or if you don't. We play by ebay's rules. Good luck on your selling journey.