Al Jolson sheet music signed by child star removed by eBay for offensive material
 This item was removed from my store for being racist, but even a cursory search for Al Jolson
Returns hundreds of results that are actual photographs of him in black face, rather than a background illustration in this sheet music that is very abstract
i’m assuming somebody reported the listing, maybe somebody who also sells autographs, and I’m wondering if I should contact eBay because reading the scope of the rules this does not violate any rules
37 comments
house*of*paws
·3 years agoHi @rebekaj
I searched eBay for 'Al Jolson photos' ... which brought up a list of about 500 items. Exactly SIX (6) were in black face, including one that was a caricature of him in black face ... similar to the one in your sheet music.
I would be interested in knowing the keywords you used in your 'cursory search' that yielded 'hundreds' of them.
deltilogical
·3 years agoThere are 54 listings for White trash cookbook right now.
Who is racist?
deltilogical
·3 years ago"
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.â€
George Orwell
ampgroup2021
·3 years agoI had a copy of 'My Mammy (The Sun Shines East, The Sun Shines West), the sheet music was signed by Al, I listed it on ebay one year ago for a reasonable figure of $499.00, it was closed down in fairly short order, I could never get a straight answer as to why, from ebay (twitter, FB etc.), I consigned with Bonhams NYC, it sold for $7500.00.
simply-the-best-for-you
·3 years agoOP knows there is blackface on the cover, they referred to it by saying " rather than a background illustration in this sheet music that is very abstract", so they clearly know it's there 😞
Unavailable member
·3 years agoWell, I don’t think that eBay should be in the business of deciding what is offensive, but I can see why they pulled your listing. It is obviously blackface.
mam98031
·3 years agoEasy to say until you get sued.
Unavailable member
·3 years agoBlackface isn’t illegal. And it wouldn’t support a civil case. I don’t think anyone sued Ted Danson or Justin Trudeau. Certainly, bad taste and hurtful. But, come on - no one is going to jail, no one is being sued over sheet music.
mam98031
·3 years agoLike so many things now days, it isn't socially acceptable.
Other things are getting actually banned all the time, simply because someone thinks it is inappropriate by today's standards. Especially in the written word. There are books being banned all over for some of the silliest reasons.
Whether you or I agree doesn't matter. Ebay needs to react in a way that is socially responsible until the tide changes, if it ever does.
Holding our books and our history to todays standards that may have been written or happened long ago is simply short sited and silly.
fern*wood
·3 years agoI really don't think that is quite abstract enough. It's rather easy to see.
luckythewinner
·3 years ago"Items with ... racist ... or otherwise demeaning portrayals, for example through caricatures or other exaggerated features"
Are you seriously suggesting that blackface is not demeaning and is not a caricature and does not exaggerate African-American features?
bonjourami
·3 years agoAgreed, its ugly and racist, and would hurt and offend a large part of Ebays population.
whatmorefabric
·3 years agoMy neighbor has a statue of a black faced Al Jolson style singer in his front yard pointed in my direction.
My dad was black, my Mom white.
He is not doing it because of any love of me or black people. His frequent complaint of having N ***** across the street is voiced after a few beers.
There are some people who still use these articles to hurt and intimidate. Personally, I think my 5 ft wrought iron flamingo is much nicer.
ms.rodriguez*
·3 years agoOn Halloween, I would buy a disguise and steal that statue and throw it away. A moron nearby has one too but his mean pitbulls roaming in the front yard keep me from going Trick or Treating this year.
steelernation2007
·3 years agoObviously a liberal activist who thinks laws don't apply to you. So you're advocating going onto someone's private property and committing a crime? That doesn't make you any better than the person owning the statue which you despise.
gone.c-33
·3 years agoI won’t speak for Ms Rodriguez, but personally, it’s not that I don’t believe that the law doesn’t apply to me, it’s that I would be willing to do the crime and pay the fine to ensure no one had to see that hurtful thing.
simba6
·3 years agoeBay is quite "touchy" about such photos. Best to find another place to sell it.
tobaccocardyahoo
·3 years agoThere is no path to a successful appeal of this censorship.
I have been through the process for some items I listed.
And if you fail to remove any other banned products your account will be suspended.
You probably were reported. but it need not have been a competitors, there are vigilantes who roam Internet marketplaces reporting what they deem to be racist.
ms.rodriguez*
·3 years agoI would not call it censorship. Some items are just too hurtful for some races/religions. To the poster, do not relist that item here. You will get at least a 3 day mini vacation and you can't list anything new nor edit an ad. I got my 3 days off for relisting 2 tiny cap pistols that was still sealed in the package. The pistols were only 1 1/2" long. So throw that item into a drawer (like I did with my pistols) or toss them or donate them to a library.
mam98031
·3 years agoThere are times errors are made. I do encourage you to reach out to Ebay to try and get some answers.
Keep in mind that a single person reporting a listing for whatever reason they may report it can not cause your listing to be removed. A single person just does not have that power. It would take multiple complaints.
@kyle@ebay
@elizabeth@ebay
mam98031
·3 years agoI would suggest that you contact Ebay for Business on Facebook or Twitter for the better trained CSRs.
Here are your options for contacting Ebay Customer Service.
https://twitter.com/askebay?lang=en
https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/
If when you use the link below you can only get to the Automated Assistant, type AGENT in the box and hit enter. You will then get more options.
https://www.ebay.com/help/contact_us?id=4002&st=10
rebekaj
OP3 years agoThankyou. ……..
elizabeth@ebay
Hi @mam98031, thank you for the tag and suggesting they reach out to an agent to receive more context, that is perfect! We do just want to clear up one small point though. All reports that are submitted are reviewed by the appropriate team. If one member reports an issue with a listing, and upon review the teammate finds it is in violation of our policies, they will take action based off that one report. Thank you again for providing help here!
usapicker101
·3 years agoNot entirely true.
I had two items pulled due to a single complaint by an airline relating to some
airline promotional items which were labeled as "counterfeit".
These were items that were originally bought and received from the same company.
As eBay 'vaporizes' these pulled listings, instead of relegating them to the unsold bin,
there is no way to check the listing for any discrepancies.
inhawaii
·3 years agoPure speculation.
You have no idea how many people complained about your listings.
mam98031
·3 years agoThat is likely equal to a Vero violation which is very different.
Yes Ebay does delete these listings as you should not ever attempt to post them again unless you want more trouble for the health of your selling account.
As Elizabeth explained above, one person can report a listing and if the team that reviews these [not a bot] determines it does break an Ebay rule, they will take down the listing. But if it doesn't they won't.
usapicker101
·3 years agoIt's become really ridiculous with eBay removing listings for no good reason and
more than likely just because a competitor is selling a similar item or because someone
wants to play censor.
I've had three items removed (vaporized listings) recently. Two were supposedly
not real merchandise (an airline keyring and a pin), even though the items were purchased
directly from the airline. A quick search found other similar airline items being sold.
When I contacted an eBay representative on the phone, they suggested I flag the other
listings so they could remove them if they violated policy. Am I supposed to be doing their
job for them just because I'm being penalized?
theteamsetguy
·3 years ago@usapicker101 ,
The cops can’t catch everyone speeding or driving drunk either. If I saw someone weaving in and out of their lane on the freeway I would report.
rebekaj
OP3 years agoSo you are saying that you believe that my listing violates the hate speech rules of eBay?
there is no racist language in this sheet music, it was actually used again for a Disney cartoon a few years later
nobody is in black face, so my question is how is this breaking the rules? As written this is not a violation, but it has been flagged as such
klhmdg
·3 years ago@rebekaj it doesnt matter what we think.
99% of listings are pulled by BOTs.
No person sits and looks them over.
There are also few listings pulled because someone reported it.
Once an item is pulled its best to not list it again.
Right or wrong you are now being watched by the BOTs and it doesnt take too many times before permanent suspension.
I dont think it violates BUT Im not eBay.
I would let the syrup and war items be posted too... IF something offends me I move on to something that doesnt. BUT again Im not eBay
Unavailable member
·3 years agoLook at the picture you posted, what do you see in the upper left ?
mam98031
·3 years agoOh I get it now. And that is why it was removed. That makes PERFECT sense. Mystery solved.
dryophelia
·3 years agoAre you able to see it now?
reallynicestamps
·3 years agonobody is in black face,
Ummm.
Check out the upper left of the cover page.
Don't be disingenuous.
maxine*j
·3 years agoThen what is this?
penguins_dont_fly
·2 years ago@rebekaj
Your own photo shows Al in blackface --- look at it a bit closer --- above the little girl's head.
12345jamesstamps
·3 years agoI wouldn't bother contacting anyone. It is not really going to help.
However, in the future....be careful what is in your title of an item. Probably not a good idea to try to re-list this now that because of this. I think just the words "A. J." his name in your title did it.
It was his name that got in in trouble. And if other sellers are selling items as such....it's only a matter of time before those sellers get hit with a removed item. Sometimes just a photo of something might get through. It words in the title and description that gets the item knocked off of eBay.