After 25 years, by EOY I predict I'll be done with eBay
Sorry to vent, but I think I'm pretty much done with selling on eBay, at least for my business. My goal is to close it down by the end of the year.
Over the years eBay has stepped on the heads of good sellers by raising their fees, imposing over friendly buyer policies that hurt sellers, allowing scams to perpetuate, outsourcing customer service, doing nothing about listings I have reported as fraudulent... the list goes on.
This most recent transaction and refund request was the last straw for me. I guess I missed the memo on the fact that eBay now issues a full refund, including the shipping costs for even buyers remorse return requests. About a year ago, I moved away from free shipping because we'd lose too much on return requests. I guess I don't understand what the difference between free shipping (adding the shipping cost to an item price) vs. charging for shipping. I guess it's just a smoke and mirrors marketing ploy.
So, here's what happened -
Buyer purchased item on July 9th. They received item on July 14th. Request return on July 20th. Waited 17 days to send it back, and of course it arrives while I'm out of town for 3 days and eBay requires I inspect and issue refund within 2.
I call eBay to let them know I cannot inspect the item until I return. They issue a 5 day hold on the return request. On the 4th day, I pick up the item at our return PO Box, inspect it (it's fine) and go to issue a return. I can't because eBay has this 5 day hold on it. The following morning, I get an email from eBay stating they issued a refund on my behalf. I'm told they charged me the final value fees since they issued the refund. This makes no sense because I was still within the 5 day hold and I couldn't issue the refund when I tried. In all of this, I also find out I'm charged the $10.55 we charge for shipping - so now, I'm out $21.51 on an $80 item.
I call them and they give me a long runaround, tell me what's up and nothing they can do about it. I'm really having a hard time accepting that someone can buy an item, return it because they have buyers remorse and I have to incur this kind of loss.
Before anyone thinks this is a knee jerk reaction, I have been selling for 25 years and have watched sales decline over the years so much that it is not profitable. It would be easy to blame the products, but we sell a lot our products on other sites with far fewer issues. I cannot fathom taking a risk for more expensive shipping items - I used to sell vintage furniture that shipping costs were $300-1000. That would be an incredible loss. With all of these policies, the overly complex listing process with an ocean of subcategories, attributes, item specifics, etc. makes this a nightmare to navigate any longer. I used to manage a business here, now I am treated like an eBay employee who is charged to work for them, while also not getting any of the benefits of working for them.
melusinete
·2 years agoThis is also my story.... it is quite awful. It has been getting particularly bad over the last few years. This month I have only sold 2 items. What is so bad that one is constantly being told to reduce ones prices as well. I cannot figure out if online sales are down this badly across the board or if it is indeed just Ebay. In addition, there Sponsored % are now insane.... and why should one have to pay this "hidden fee". Anyway this is just acknowledge your well written crit!! Any idea where to sell if one is selling vintage china and scarfs etc? Good luck to you...
sumsum70
·2 years ago"Indeed just eBay"
I can't speak for other categories, but for the types of items I sell, it absolutely is indeed just eBay.
From Monday through Saturday this past week, I sold about 800% more off eBay than on eBay. I sold nothing on eBay today, so that trend will likely continue next week. eBay is beginning to feel like the final days of the Century 3 Mall.
evelyb30
·2 years agoWhen Bath& Body Works pulls out, and they yank the plants, it's time to leave for sure. I quit selling here in January and honestly won't be back. I still read the selling board because why not?
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoThough I understand the OP's situation, I'm not seeing anything here that isn't pretty much bog standard return criteria on any platform I've sold on (I've sold on about 7 or 😎 - it's frustrating when people take so long to return, but a company is not going to adjust its return flow just for me because I'm on vacation. So I wish OP all the best in future, but that future may hold some disappointment insofar as various platform policies go.
sumsum70
·2 years agoIf you see shills walking down the street
Scroll on by
Scroll on by
ckimodog
·2 years ago@covetmodern
Wishing you all the best with future opportunities. Sorry for your situation. You take care.
covetmodern
OP2 years agoJust to prove my point - an eBay rep sent me an affidavit to complete and submit regarding the return. There were 3 options that would report the buyer - item was damaged, item was not returned, item was altered. Obviously, none of those applied to this situation.
I downloaded the affidavit, added my own option and explained my case, requesting eBay refund me $30.06 - which was the final value fees and shipping. I included the name of the eBay rep who suggested I file it. Minutes later I get a response from eBay approving me for my request, but it wasn’t for what I asked for. It was the full amount of the item plus shipping.
it was clear this was never read. They just rubber stamped the affidavit and issued the refund. No indication if they reversed the charge to the buyer or not. This poor customer service and communication… 🙄
coolections
·2 years agoYou received what is called a curtesy refund. They will do that to many who just keep calling and complaining until they get what they want.
laststopgeneralstore
·2 years agoBy the end of this year I will be up about 10% year over year.
covetmodern
OP2 years agoSo, you sold $100 last year and now $110? 🤣🤣🤣
rugerskick
·2 years agoI think its prompted many sellers to diversify across multiple platforms. I would say if you uave any items that both sell very well here while causing minimal problems, taper down to the items that do best here. Others find certain types of items do better on other sites, for any number of reasons. Shift those to the places they can do better. The days of a "one online site only" seller appear to be over.
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoSomething which is natural and normal in the evolution of ecommerce.
memorymarielane
·2 years agoI'm in the same boat... well, sort of 🙂 I've been on ebay since 2018 and I am literally selling off the remainder of my inventory. There is no point in going out to source (which is becoming a time waste in my area as well) when the profit margins are so low. I've been keeping track of my sales the past year and it is dismal. Good luck with your new venture and best of luck to us all; the world is certainly changing economically.
sakic92710
·2 years agoDefinitely cannot be worth it when we are trying to get a profit but have to lose out on a large chunk immediately. Even trying to sell at 50% profit, you lose almost half of that.
2006h3
·2 years ago24 year seller here....... I had the identical discussion with my wife tonight at dinner.
This used to be a great platform to sell on....... Ebay all third party support filled with people that are trained to lie at every point.
Ebay doesnt care if you leave or not because they are too busy collecting 30% selling fees on sneakers and car parts.
Ebay should run their next marketing campaign that says something like "ebay the worlds largest automotive junkyard and sometimes we sell other stuff to"
HK
nichtr_78
·2 years agoebay let me down so bad. this site is garbage. so are the shills.
covetmodern
OP2 years agoOh, and the follow up "customer service" emails have been atrocious.
I had disputed being charged by eBay for closing the case because I had actually attempted to, but their system didn't allow for that because the case was on hold. Their reply had nothing to do with this at all. They provided instructions on giving good customer service when someone files Item Not as Described cases. They also included instructions on how to file a fraud claim - again, does not apply here. I replied that this was a request for return, not an INAD and that the item was returned unopened. They then send me an affidavit to complete to file a report on the buyer.
I really don't get this at all.
covetmodern
OP2 years agoOh, and now I find out they also charged me for the return shipping the buyer did. On top of that it was sent in a box that was about 10 times the size of the item. So, I'm out $30.06 on an $80 item that was returned because the customer changed their mind.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoWe moved clear across the country 4 years ago and I continued to keep my store open while we were on the road. We had some refund requests during that time and were unable to inspect the item before we arrived at our destination. We just did the refund like we were home. None of the returns were fraudulent or a problem during that time.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·2 years agoI didn't read your entire post, because I really don't need to know the reason for your decision, but, we must each decide what is best for us. Fortunately, this is 2023, and sellers have more options than ever, so I'm sure you'll find something that satisfies you at some point. Best of luck to you!
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoCool items for sale. I wouldn't give up. There is always going to be one bad apple(buyer) out there.
Its expected when selling.
I had a nice sale the other day. I goggle their address. It is a nice expensive house. I checked all their feedback. Great feedback back and forth. I checked recents sales on what they buy and so on. That what they are buying from the past from what they bought from me. Yea, I know sellers have to do this extra homework to play it safe nowadays.
covetmodern
OP2 years agothis wasn't a case of a bad buyer though. It was a matter of circumstances and eBay's system and policies that have created a place where risks are higher than ever. I'm just fed up with all of these dysfunctional policies and automated systems that suffocate sellers. There's little to no room for common sense any more.
bonjourami
·2 years agoAs I look into my crystal ball, I prediict you will come back, or never leave in the first place. Just because the odds are against you, as most sellers who announce their departures on the boards never leave at all, or return shortly. But I do wish you good luck.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoI would hope this is a relatively uncommon chain of events. But the outcome you saw was the likely outcome on most if not all Internet marketplaces.
Selling on an Internet marketplace includes in its costs having to live with time requirements which may not fit the way you want or need to run your business.
Yes, Ebay used to me more responsive to exceptions, but that has changed as the scale and the costs of their operation has changed.
If you are looking for a substitute channel which is more controllable, that may have to be your own website.
In 2008 I moved from Ebay to Amazon, and Amazon was then what Ebay is like now. Amazon today is far less flexible than it was then or Ebay is now. I am back on Ebay and it feels like I have been liberated.
covetmodern
OP2 years agowell, I would never sell on Amazon... so there's that.
I opened an shop on the other "E" site and have had great success, but they too are changing things making it more challenging, but nowhere near what eBay has.
For example - if you don't accept returns and a buyer requests a return/refund, the site will just issue a refund without requiring a return. The site claims that no returns implies the seller doesn't want it back, when we as sellers know that is not generally the case.
For me, it's not this particular transaction that is the only problem. It's a combination of many things that have evolved over the years - most importantly, the bottom line - sales. If sales are low and costs/risk is high - it's just not worth it here anymore.
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoEtsy is worse than here. It used to be great - I sold on there for years but what tore it for me was being forced to pay 12% for their stupid ad program with NO info on how they actually manage it - "Don't worry your pretty little head about it, ladies" is basically the attitude over there.
covetmodern
OP2 years agoYeah, I've had to really dig in and research to justify Adwords. Fortunately, it only applies to when someone actually makes a purchase related to a google search, not a click. On the flip side, I used to complain about google searches not showing eBay items. The reality is that Google charges a fortune for those searches. I've had to adjust the cost of items because of that and to be honest, it has worked out better for us... for now. I've kept a close eye on it though. I ran a cost analysis on all of our items and found it really only affects one item we sell and its about 10% of those sales.
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoWell, they have two programs. My beef was being forced to pay 12% for a program I did not need or want, based on a not very good search (and Google is continually changing parameters for their Google Ads) if I grossed over 10K/year, which was very easy to do without their meddling assistance. I would prefer it to be a choice.
moondogblues
·2 years agoYou have some really cool stuff, in fact I couldn't resist that poster...it's mine now. And you are just over the hill from me. Hi from Astoria. (Waving) It's hot here too...almost 80 right now at almost midnight. Stay cool.
chapeau-noir
·2 years ago::waves at @moondogblues:: Glad to see you posting! I was in Albany, OR for a running/biking event and it hit 104, and yes, was almost 80 at midnight. It was in the upper 80s in the a.m. when I was running - I'm a typical mossy green Pac NW person, used to 48 deg and drizzle. Man, I was suffering. By 3:00 PM I was out hunting for inventory locally and even with all the car windows open I was boiling. The DH cut his century bike event short at 70 miles due to the heat.
Really liking those Flensted mobiles the OP has!
yuzuha
·2 years agoExactly. You cannot expect a buyer to somehow know that you are going to be out of town. In this case, it sounds like the buyer opened a return request and then sent the item back well within the amount of time they were allotted. They cannot control the postal system as to when the return actually reaches the seller.
covetmodern
OP2 years agoNo, they sat on it for 14 days before mailing it back. I watched tracking info and reviewed it after it arrived. It arrived 17 days after they requested the return. eBay allows for 15 business days, which can be 21-22 days after the return window. So, if you have a 14 day return window, the return period can take 5 weeks after the customer received it. That’s a bit excessive in my opinion. Returns should be prompt - within 5 business days. This avoids many problems. Or, make it the same amount of time as the buyer took to get it in the mail. If it takes them 10 days to drop it at the post office, then the buyer gets 10 days to issue a refund. Guarantee that will get things moving quickly. Lol.
yuzuha
·2 years agoeBay allows for 30 business days. I had a remorse return request just a month or so ago and the buyer was given 30 days in which to return the item.
lakefor94
·2 years agoI would not buy anything from a site with a 5-day return window.
Received a power supply I needed today. I tested it this evening. There are times when I can't even get to testing purchases for a couple of weeks due to other demands.
30 days to start a return is the norm on most every major online venue.
yuzuha
·2 years agoMy B&M job allows for 60 days. Most returns are made within a week of purchase, but people like having that security just in case they can't check the item right away.
housewifemary
·2 years agoI agree with you. I have had my share of problems with ebay, it seems the buyer is always right even if he's wrong. I had ebay refund me once for a case I won because the buyer was being shifty. Turns out they also refunded the shifty buyer. That's like rewarding the person for failing at a return scam. Unfortunately they have the best selling turnover for me, unless you know of a better place to sell.
sakic92710
·2 years agoI may be joining you if 2023 continues to be worse than 2022. The amount of sales that I make has no impact on my financial life. 6 sales a month or 0 means nothing unless those sales are $100 each instead of less than $30. I can try my luck with these listings on sites that are free of fees. My last negative is from a buyer who received the item AND got a refund. The item was stolen from me with eBay's cooperation. They have all of the evidence that the buyer got a refund & tracking to show the purchase is in his possession. They do not care. After paying my store fee & other fees, my total sales for August amount to less than $10 in my pocket.
coolections
·2 years agoIt sounds like you caused all the problems yourself. You knew the item was return so you should have just issued the refund. Good luck elsewhere but my guess is your will change your mind abut leaving.
sakic92710
·2 years agoIt is very much unlike you to blame the sellers. LOL
covetmodern
OP2 years agoItem required inspection. This is something that is boxed very intricately and if opened and removed from the box cannot be resold at all.
I called eBay once I received notification of the package arrival. Family emergencies unfortunately happen. They set up the 5 day hold. eBay's system would not allow me to issue the refund even though I tried because of the hold. When I tried to contact eBay via chat, it was not functioning. I was going to try again the next morning and then eBay issued the refund - so, no. It was not caused by myself. I also didn't choose to hold a return for 17 days before sending it back. eBay should reduce that to 5 business days.
And, I won't be changing my mind. Over the last 2 years I have pulled over half of the items we sell off eBay to avoid fraud. I'll keep my account to occasionally buy/sell personal items, but I just closed my subscription and intend to no longer sell list business related items here. Sales (including views and watchers) have been significantly down for over a year on eBay, while up everywhere else we sell. eBay used to be 75% of our sales, now it's about 10% without adding new venues.
inhawaii
·2 years agoIs it ok to wish the OP good luck without being called a "shill"?
covetmodern
OP2 years agoI believe in this case, "shill" implies those who are being snarky to push the eBay propaganda.
coolections
·2 years agoNo it is not. With haters they will do anything they can. It is what it is though. Just ignore the haters.
sumsum70
·2 years agoSadly, I predict your post will attract a bunch of shills to post eBay propaganda playbook replies such as "C-ya, good luck, don't let the door..."
You make valid points and it has become my opinion this site is trash. I'm just here to milk it while it is still slightly viable.
covetmodern
OP2 years agoI assume the same. I also expect the "build the cost into your price" nonsense as well. It's about principals, not about working with a system that milks sellers for the sake of their shareholders.
cardxcraft
·2 years ago................
lakefor94
·2 years agoOn a $80 item, I would have just pushed the refund button while I was out of town and been done with it.
Good luck on those other venues.