A seller here has put my book on sale here without my permission.
A whole sale book seller has put my book on sale on Ebay without my permission! Last year I published a book on lulu.com. I notice a book seller has put my book on sale for a much higher price. The seller has done the same thing for many other books. I don't know how the seller can collect any money for the sales. Looks like he took a screenshot of the ad in lulu for his ad. So he will be taking money from unsuspecting buyers. Looks like massive fraud. What are my legal options here? Shouldn't Ebay shut down companies who do this? Using Ebay to defraud people! I sent a complaint into customer service yesterday and am awaiting to here for them. Anyone else experience this here?
Thanks
41 comments
lukingud
·2 years agoI have the same question, except The book they are selling, I have not received on dime from LULU for anyone buying the books.
pickapaper
·2 years ago@ranbar3621
I looked at the lulu site and it looks like it is a self-publishing business so I assume you had to pay them to have your book printed. I'm not familiar with this process but kudos to you for following through with your dream. I hope lots of people read your book and you do very well with it.
kalyoth
·2 years agoFirst - Congratulations on having a popular written work! Quite difficult to succeed as a writer.
Your options are - nothing for physical products. Once they are purchased from the original seller, they are free to resell at any price they wish. Your product does not come with any additional warranty or use issues / concerns. They can resell it at a lemonade table, flea market, pretty much anyplace. The law in the US is on their side.
If it is a digital product, there might be something in regards to that as digital products have use licenses attached.
jg.mason
·2 years agoYeah new old stock would be the best description. I usually just put new, sealed in the title. It does fit ebays brand new description though: "Brand New: An item that has never been opened or removed from the manufacturer’s sealing (if applicable). Item is in original shrink wrap (if applicable)."
I can see the warranty issue being a problem on some items.
nyr134
·2 years agoKudos to the OP for graciously thanking everyone for their responses. That doesn’t happen often enough here.
thelongball
·2 years agoHe is doing you a huge favor as advertising is expensive and he is doing it for you. Maybe you should Thank him. He may have read it and really liked it. He just may be your first Raving Fan. Take it as a compliment and hopefully you get others doing it too. Thats how you'll make more money. Let others do the work for you.
chevymontecarlo88
·2 years agoI agree with what you are basically saying and really do not have an issue on how most sellers represent there inventory. Coming from a Music Retail background, many product lines are very difficult/expensive to be able to sell and that does come with benefits. Some product lines are so coveted that there are limited dealerships available, have expensive contracts to sell or have regional limitations.
Many items from manufacturers have MAP (minimum advertised price), marketing/promotional costs, R&D just to name a few. By selling an item as Brand New that is not, can give you an advantage over a legitimate item that is brand new. It does take money away from the supply chain if someone is buying it because it is brand new.
Now if the OP signed a deal with (x) publisher to exclusively sell there book (ensures quality) having another seller (selling as brand new) could be problematic to that deal. Regardless of selling price. Not saying that is the case but using it as an example on how it could be more complicated.
At the end of the day nothing will change but it is an interesting topic. (at least to me. 😀)
Now to the important part of the conversation.
How much better did the Beatles White album (180 gram) sound vs the original pressing? I am sure they remastered it and curious if you like it better than the original.
jg.mason
·2 years agoThis is interesting. I just sold a brand new cassette that was 25 years old. It was still in the original plastic wrap. So was it new or was it used just because someone already bought it? In a discussion about this with a buddy he said it wasn't brand new because it was old, but couldn't tell me what it should be described as.
chevymontecarlo88
·2 years agoNew old stock or like new condition. At least that is how many looked at items like these years ago.
Basically these days there is no difference on Ebay and i doubt they would do anything about it since a large percentage of there new items most likely fall into this category.
The biggest issue is with purchases (buying as brand new but is used) that could have a warranty/support that buyers think is included with their purchase. (when they need to use the warranty)
onefootflipper
·2 years agoI would say the number of people these days who actually ever use a manufacturers warranty on a normal commodity item effectively rounds down to zero.
I am 46 years old. I have never once used a manufacturer warranty on anything.
chevymontecarlo88
·2 years agoYeah, your probably right. Screw those people who think they are buying something that should be backed by the manufacture. I don't know why they would expect that type of support.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoMost items don't have "manufacturer's warranties" and generally buyers don't buy new items listed on ebay from because they're expecting to have a manufacturer-backed warranty.
They're buying "new" items because they want an item that has NEVER been used and whether it's 25 years old (NOS) or purchased on clearance from Walmart last week, if it's never been used, it is NEW and the seller isn't being dishonest in listing it as such.
chevymontecarlo88
·2 years agofrodobagginskennedy
·2 years ago@onefootflipper My husband is a big user of warranties. I cannot even begin to remember all of the replacements we have received from Fry pans to Dog toys, Contigo Mugs, Kitchenaid can openers and the list goes on.
The ONLY maker that has not helped with a defective product was TUPPERWARE!
onefootflipper
·2 years agoHe is in a very small minority.
jerseyboymusic
·2 years ago@chevymontecarlo88
Interestingly... I did a video on this on my YouTube channel (Collecting Beatles 101)
My wife gifted me the BC13 box set from 1978, so I did comparison videos of all the different versions of each LP from different pressings and countries. Check it out!
chevymontecarlo88
·2 years agoChecked it out and nicely done! Will be checking out more of your videos. (Sub'd)
Really thought that 1966 45 rpm case was awesome. Great find!
jerseyboymusic
·2 years agoThanks so much!
jerseyboymusic
·2 years agoLet's say I listed and sold a copy of Sgt Pepper on vinyl. I purchased it at a record store for $20. I sold it for $35. Do the Beatles get any of that money? No... they got their money from the initial retail agreement (I know I'm oversimplifying)
I don't see what the OP's issue is. They got paid for the book and someone else is selling a copy of it.
ranbar3621
OP2 years agoMakes perfect sense now. I saw my book on eBay for the first time and assumed the worst. Just a used book seller.
chevymontecarlo88
·2 years agoThat brings up a bigger point that sometimes get glossed over since many will resell items they purchase.
How it is represented could be the issue more than the act. (not specifically speaking about this book but in general)
If someone is representing an item as Brand New, it should be sold with the understanding that the item is Brand New (authorized dealer, warranty, support) which everyone in the supply chain would benefit from. Listing a used item (without warranty, support or from authorized dealer) as Brand New could be considered an issue or at least dishonest. In your example (used LP) as you noted, the Artist (or anyone within the supply chain - manufacture to retailer) would not get royalties on it if sold as Brand New. If it is being resold as USED it would be a moot point.
jerseyboymusic
·2 years ago@chevymontecarlo88
True... BUT let's stick with The Beatles.
I have a 50th Anniversary White Album box set from 2018. It is sealed and brand new. I actually have two of them, both were brand new. I opened one of them. A buddy of mine got them on clearance at Wal-Mart and gifted them to me.
Any way...if I sold the brand new and unopened one, Apple Corp gets nothing. I sell it as brand new, because it was never opened. I'm not part of the supply chain, I just happen to have one that is still in minty fresh new condition. The other box set, I would NOT sell as brand new, even though I only played the bonus albums only once.
Could be anything... action figures, books, DVDs & BluRays, TV sets, etc.
I, as the seller, CANNOT provide any warranty service, but I assume the manufacturer can. BUT the item is in new condition, so I don't think me listing it as such could be seen as dishonest.
Now, apparently, the OP didn't know there was any such thing as a used book seller, but that's kind of odd. Used books are all over the place, whether at a thrift store, Ebay, an ACTUAL used book store, etc. Didn't Amazon even start out as a used book marketplace?
So, if the other seller sold the OP's book as NEW when it was USED (even read once), then yeah.. that's questionable (even though that would be hard to prove)
funfactorychannel
·2 years agoThis based on what your opinion on what new is. There is no legal definition of new.
Warranty is a separate matter to what is considered new.
fashunu4eeuh
·2 years agoIf you step back a minute and look at this dispassionately— someone can buy your book at your asking price wherever you sell it, and then it belongs to them. They cannot reproduce your work without your permission, but they can list their now newly-owned property, legally obtained, for whatever price they choose. People buy and sell art all the time. Do you call that fraud? It is the free market system.
What are my legal options here?…â€
@ranbar3621
This is no safe place to ask such an important question. We are fellow eBay buyers and sellers. While there might accidentally be a lawyer among us, it sounds like you need to bring yourself up to speed on what your rights are in consideration of your published material.
ranbar3621
OP2 years agoWhat you said makes perfect sense. This is the first time I've seen my book on eBay after publishing it and assumed the worst. Someone told me about used book sellers today. I live and learn!
dryophelia
·2 years agoResponse based on this eBay item is a legally obtained, physical copy of the book.
What is the fraud? I have never heard of lulu. Therefore, I would never see your book.
In my opinion, this seller is acting on the fact you have no presence here. He can sell it for more because you aren’t here to compete.
A legally obtained copy of the book had to put money in your pocket. What are your losses? You will need proof of loss if you’re taking legal action.
ranbar3621
OP2 years agoNo need for legal action here. I saw my book for the first time on ebay and assumed the worst. Then someone told me about used book sellers. This is what they do. He bought or got a copy from someone else.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoThe seller is probably practicing online arbitrage. You have not rights so long as he is not counterfeiting your book.
Ebay may have an issue if he is having Lulu or anyone else dropship any orders he gets, and it arrives with Lulu's paperwork and packaging.
vintage-camerastuff
·2 years agoHe is selling your book. You are making money. Why try to stop him? You are making no sense.
momtoabeautifuldaughter
·2 years agoFirst sale doctrine gives them the right to sell your book
onefootflipper
·2 years agoWorst case scenario is that someone actually buys a copy which is extremely unlikely and then they have to buy a copy from you on Lulu and you get a sale.
The overwhelming majority of print on demand arbitrage listings on any website never sell a single copy. My Lulu books have shown up on both Amazon and Apple books, no one is buying them.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoIf he is fulfilling the order by purchase the book legitimately from lulu and pocketing the difference, then he is not defrauding anyone.
Buying an item and then reselling it for a higher price is how retail stores have worked for centuries.
monica-sells
·2 years agoThis is the correct answer for your inquiry.
You did not indicate whether the seller of said book selling the "physical" book or a digital version.
If the seller does not 'physically' have the book in inventory, that may be a violation of ebay policy.
But there is no "fraud" in the way you have presented your dilemna
ranbar3621
OP2 years agoThanks for setting me straight here. I saw my book resold for the first time on ebay and assumed the worse. It's just another used book sellers.
ranbar3621
OP2 years agoMakes perfect sense. I saw my book on eBay for the first time and assumed the worst. There is a lot of fraud going on but I believe I jumped to conclusions here.
brightlightbookseller
·2 years agoThere's no fraud. The First Sale Doctrine in the US says anyone can sell anything they have purchased (assuming a physical item) to anyone for whatever amount they want. If people know they can order your book elsewhere, that seller is unlikely to make any sales, but they aren't doing anything illegal.
Edit: That said, they might be violating eBay policy if they're waiting to purchase the book from you after it sells here, since that's a violation of the retail arbitrage policy, but that's very different than committing fraud or another crime.
ranbar3621
OP2 years agoThanks for setting me straight. This was the first time I saw my book on eBay and assumed the worst. Then someone said they could be legit used sellers. Which makes sense. They can sell it for whatever they want after getting a copy. So am not worried anymore!
chevymontecarlo88
·2 years agoMaybe they are purchasing the items from lulu and reselling here for more.
Why don't you list your book here for less and undercut them making it so they will not sell any?
ranbar3621
OP2 years agoVery possible. They are probably legit used book sellers. I saw the book on eBay and assumed the worst.
klhmdg
·2 years agoCould this seller not just buy the book off lulu.com if he sells one and send it to the buyer?
You can check with an attorney but I cant see where there is anything illegal with selling a book.
If you dont want to sell your book, take it off lulu.com and no one can sell it or buy it.
ranbar3621
OP2 years agoThis is the first time I've seen my book on eBay after publishing it and assumed the worst. Then I was told about used book sellers and how they operate which makes sense. So now I know.