2024 Summer Seller Update - Auction (Auto-pay) "test"
I just read the section below on the new payment testing for Auctions. Not good. Giving a Buyer one hour to select a payment method might work for ONE single solitary auction they are bidding on from one Seller. But what about Sellers like me who have Auctions ending all weekend long at times and who have customers who will bid on several auctions spread out over 2- 2/12 days????
Further down in the FAQs eBay states that Buyers may have to pay for shipping PRIOR to combining shipping ... again, for Sellers who end Auctions throughout a weekend this is extremely inconvenient and certainly does NOT enhance the Buying experience for customers bidding on multiple items.
On more than one occasion my customers have messaged me after winning an auction to let me know they are bidding on more items and will pay once things end ... duh, this new process would VOID that situation and might run off Buyers in the process. Sorry, but in my view this is a bad idea.
While this "test" is going on how does a Seller know if any of their Auctions are part of the "test" ???
Below are excerpts from the 2024 Summer Seller Update.
What you need to know
Buyers on select auctions will be required to set up a preferred payment method and shipping address before they can place a bid. After winning an auction, we’ll let them know they have one hour to adjust their order or payment details as needed, otherwise we’ll automatically process their order using their preferred payment method. No action is required from the seller.
These changes aim to improve the auction process on eBay by providing buyers with the ability to decide how they want to pay, while also ensuring that sellers receive payment for their sales. The goal is to foster a more efficient and dependable experience for the entire eBay community.
As a seller, can I still offer combined shipping for multiple items purchased by the same buyer?
You can still combine multiple purchases from the same buyer in a single shipment, but please be aware that a buyer may be automatically charged for shipping costs for each individual item when payments are processed. In these situations, you can send buyers a refund for any excess shipping charges if you offer combined shipping discounts. In the meantime, we are actively working on solutions that reduce the likelihood of this occurring.
I could not find where eBay will let Sellers opt out of this program altogether. If we were asked to vote on this process I would definitely be voting NO.
sallyoni
·2 years agoEvery time eBay decides to make a change or try to fix something that’s not broken, it usually is an awful idea. This so called test almost screwed me out of $40. It’s the end of the month and money is tight from getting all of next months bills paid. There was an auction ending, and nowhere did it say that payment was going to be required within an hour. I won the auction for $6.89 and that’s with shipping and tax included. I only had $3 in my checking/debit account, and planned on going to the bank in the morning to deposit some cash to make the payment. But then a pop up box shows up with a countdown to an automatic payment. Well if I let that happen, I’m going to get hit with a $39 overdraft fee. So I delete my debit card and that works, but then I try to delete my checking account and it won’t let me until I add another checking account. I still remember at one point when eBay required payment within 7 days, and now it’s an hour? Crazy. If there was something on the listing that said immediate payment was going to be required, I would have never bid on the item. I actually had to reach out to my mother and ask if I could use her credit card for the $6.89 which is not her job to take care of my finances. But she did help, and I temporarily added her card to my account. I guess buying her discontinued craft and scrapbooking items all the time, paid off. But if eBay is going to require payment within an hour, then there should be a highlighted note at the top of the auction. If this becomes a new standard feature, then that’s just one more reason to stop using eBay or better yet, turn on all my server racks and launch my own version of an online auction site that mimics a much older version of eBay, before people started hating on them. Plus I would only charge 25 cents per item for up to a 30 day listing and no seller fees. Just pay your 25 cents. Wether it’s a one dollar baseball card or a $10k vehicle, the server is going to work the same amount. So 25 cents across the board. Every time something like this happens, it just gives me another reason to flip the breakers to my dedicated 400 amp service to my server farm. I first wrote the program when eBay stopped allowing payment by money orders. eBay needs to stop pushing their luck. Sounds like there’s a room of a bunch of bored people who have bad ideas that work there.
mam98031
·2 years ago@sallyoni
"This so called test..." It is no longer a test. As a seller you have two newer options in your Buyer Requirements that you can use or not, your choice. I showed a Screen shot of it in Post #75.
"There was an auction ending, and nowhere did it say that payment was going to be required within an hour. " The auctions don't have to state this and I would guess that most don't. As a buyer before you bid on an auction that the seller has the requirement turned on, you would have to enter a payment choice to be charged if you win the auction. A newer improvement is that buyers now have up to one hour after they win the auction to change their payment source if they want to for any reason.
So you were made aware that you had to pay for the auction if you were to win the auction. You may have forgotten about it, but you were told.
"I still remember at one point when eBay required payment within 7 days, and now it’s an hour? " Thank goodness that that old policy is long gone. BTW, that wasn't 7 days that Ebay required buyers to pay.. Ebay didn't set that term. Sellers were not able to file an Unpaid Item Dispute until day 7, then the buyer was given another 7 days to pay, so now we are up to 14. And if not paid then sellers could close the UID and get their fees back and the buyer got an unpaid strike.`
Non paying buyers on Auctions have been an issue since the beginning. Sellers have been asking for a fix more many years. Finally they came up with a solution.
"Crazy. If there was something on the listing that said immediate payment was going to be required, I would have never bid on the item." But you were told, BEFORE you bid, you were told. Did you think it was a joke or that it didn't apply to you even though you had to enter your payment info? "But if eBay is going to require payment within an hour, then there should be a highlighted note at the top of the auction. " Again you were told. This is a YOU issue, not the seller or Ebay's. YOU are the one that was told BEFORE you bid, yet for some reason that doesn't seem enough for you. Why?
"If this becomes a new standard feature, then that’s just one more reason to stop using eBay..." Where do you think you can go that you can purchase something and not pay for it for a few days?
"... better yet, turn on all my server racks and launch my own version of an online auction site that mimics a much older version of eBay, before people started hating on them. Plus I would only charge 25 cents per item for up to a 30 day listing and no seller fees." I say go for it. You honestly think it is that inexpensive to set up a site like Ebay's? Much less manage it? Or is it going to be developed and ran by volunteers? You might want to do a bit more research on that and the hardware required to run such a site.
FYI It is very hard for some of us to read a Wall of text. If you could use paragraphs, like you see in most posts, it makes your posts much easier to read.
gurlcat
·2 years agoWhen you placed your bid(s) there was a line of text you probably didn't see, stating that your stored payment method would be charged automatically (but with an hour for you to edit it, if you want).
See, at first when they were testing this, they made it un-missable. There was a popup you would have to address BEFORE you could type in your bid, and it ASKED which payment method you would want used, then that method would be charged IMMEDIATELY after the auction closed, like within a few minutes. But the problem with that was, it threw a big wrench into people's efforts to snipe auctions (can't win in the final few seconds if you have to spend several seconds reading and approving of some popup before bidding, or even more time if you wanted to change your payment method!).
So now they're doing this thing where it just tells you (in the same popup window as the bid entry line) that your current method will be charged. But YES it's easy to miss. It's not in bright red letters, but it should be. I guess at least they do show that countdown clock, and that saved your goose in this case. But if you didn't have your mother's or any other account to use, that overdraft fee would have occurred for sure. It SUCKS! And I don't even know what would happen in my case because my registered method is a Paypal Prepaid card which cannot be overdrafted; it simply rejects any attempts to charge beyond my balance.
bigirish001
·2 years agoAs a seller I wish I could force this ON for all my auctions, I'm tired of deadbeats that win auctions then never pay. I just won an auction that had this enabled and found the process painless. I just had 2 auctions close over an hour ago without payment, obviously my own auctions are not included in this "test".
mr_lincoln
OP2 years agoHi @bigirish001
On this page you can turn the auto-Pay feature ON or OFF for both Auctions and Offers. It is near the bottom of the page.
Buyer management | eBay
a_c_green
·2 years agoJust to be clear, all sellers have this option (and I think it's defaulted to On, unless you turn it off), but my understanding is that not all bidders are in the program yet. Thus you may still encounter a winning bidder who does not pay within 60 minutes of the end of auction, even if you have the option checkmarked to On.
I believe all buyers are now included in the program that requires payment info for offers, but not all are yet in the program that requires payment info for auction bids. They're two independent settings. (Users do not have a choice about opting-in to the required payment info, but eBay has not yet gotten around to every buyer's account.)
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@a_c_green
-Yes, when it is rolled in to a Selling account the default setting is ON.
-eBay initially hod it for BOTH Auctions and Offers, then for a period dropped it for Auctions then added Auctions back in. I know because I watched it on my account. Here is a screen shot of that on my account ... on again off again on again LOL! The screen shot is one I posted on another thread on the topic a while ago.
-I do not recall that it also had to be turned on for Buying accounts and was under the impression that the Seller controlled the AutoPay on their listings with the ON or OFF setting. Would you happen to have a reference or recall where that information was posted for us?
a_c_green
·2 years agoThe seller does control whether the AutoPay is On or Off for offers and for auction bids; yes. The other half of the equation is that the buyer must also be in the program that requires him to submit his payment info in advance. As I understand it, all buyers are now in the Offers program, but not all buyers are now (yet) in the Bids requirement. As you said, the auctions option first appeared with the offers option, then was quietly withdrawn for, I don't know, maybe a couple of months, then quietly reappeared again, which is where we are today.
I can try to find it again... It was a little while ago now. I want to say it was possibly a reply from @kyle@ebay in the midst of a rather long thread, back when more sellers were becoming aware of the option settings and debating whether they were a good idea.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@a_c_green
I have that happen too, I "recall" something was posted somewhere then forget to screen shot it or copy the thread URL to a word doc adding notes to what its about. One thing I don't recall is Sellers posting here that they had the Auto-pay ON but Buyers were still not paying for auctions ... anyway, hope Kyle replies.
a_c_green
·2 years agoOkay, I did some quick searching and found a few references to it not being implemented yet, though not the solid declaration from an eBay contact that I seem to remember. Anyhow:
@seller_update@ebay hinting vaguely that you may or may not be asked for payment info when placing a bid:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/2024-Summer-Seller-Update/We-re-testing-changes-to-auction-sales-that-ll-help-you-easily/m-p/34538853#M108
...and a couple of posts from @ittybitnot who is saying much the same thing, and who I'm pinging here in the hopes that maybe they can offer something a little more solid than what I have found so far, because they sound a bit more grounded on this topic than I am:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Bids-NOT-Being-paid-3nd-one-in-2-weeks/m-p/34547588#M2422572
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/AUTOPAY-things-you-should-know/m-p/34301967#M2358690
I hope that helps. Housework is calling... 🙄
P.S. Okay, one more link, and then I promise I will stop pinging people for the evening...
This post (below) was almost exactly a year ago now, from back when both the offer and bid pre-payment requirements were just getting started, but @mam98031 here is quoting what appears to be an (unattributed) eBay contact:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Recent-UPDATE-to-the-Site-Preferences-then-BUYER-REQUIREMENTS/m-p/33946066#M2265234
Perhaps that contact can be asked for an update...?
kyle@ebay
Hey @a_c_green and @mr_lincoln there was a period of time while testing was taking place that meant only some buyers were subject to AutoPay.
However, at this time, any buyer will be subject to AutoPay (or not) according to the selection a seller has chosen in their requirements.
gurlcat
·2 years agoBesides testing being over, are all buyers fully rolled-in now too?
And not that you could probably answer this, but I wonder why there is NOW a survey on whether we find Auto helpful or not. Like, why not ask while testing it???
toomuchstuffagain35
·2 years agoYeah, seems like ebay never met a really bad idea they didn't like.
a_c_green
·2 years agoThanks, @kyle@ebay! So just to be clear, this applies to both the offers/BuyItNow option and the auction bids option; is that correct? Everyone's in both now?
I know all buyers were put into AutoPay (as I guess we're calling it) for the offers/BuyItNow option fairly promptly. It was the auction bids side that was lagging behind, including a month or two when the entire auction option line was removed from the seller's Buyer Management page (as seen in @mr_lincoln's screenshots), and the post in this thread two days ago from @bigirish001 (here) suggests that he has run into a bidder who is still not yet in Autopay for auctions. (I'm assuming that bigirish001 does have the Autopay for auctions requirement checked on his Buyer Management page, as I understand that they were set to default On when first added by eBay.)
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@kyle@ebay
Thank you for the clarification Kyle, that makes sense.
a_c_green
·2 years ago@bigirish001: If you go to your Buyer Management page (here) and scroll down to the Buyer rules subhead, that first option ("Require buyers to provide a payment method before they place a bid") is checked, right?
sextons-sweet-deals
·2 years agoAlmost have to wonder if eBay should just do away with auctions. Just add my 250 free auctions to my 1,000 fixed listings store subscription.
These payment requirements are probably due to those who have multiple accounts (some ghost) that they use to push their own listing bids or other similar / competitor listings to also boost their own.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoAlmost have to wonder if eBay should just do away with auctions. Just add my 250 free auctions to my 1,000 fixed listings store subscription.
These payment requirements are probably due to those who have multiple accounts (some ghost) that they use to push their own listing bids or other similar / competitor listings to also boost their own.
The change was more than likely driven by the YEARS of sellers complaining about non-paying buyers on OBO's and auctions. The change is probably here to stay but hopefully it remains a seller option as to whether to turn it on or off just like IPR is for BIN listings.
In my opinion the intentions were good but eBay should have approached this from the buyer side and made the requirement for new buyers with no purchase history or buyers that have xx number of non-payment strikes against them.
gurlcat
·2 years agoBoth of your theories are perfectly logical - @sextons-sweet-deals Buyers don't want sellers using shill accounts to push up their winning bids, @dbfolks166mt Sellers don't buyers to not be held accountable for paying. And yeah the autopay feature theoretically addresses both of those concerns.
But it actually wasn't either of those things. Unfortunately it is rare for eBay to act based on what any users want; they care much more about what investors want. I don't have the details handy in front of me (I wish I had bookmarked the post -I think it was by @valueaddedresource ) but basically what happened was the stock shareholders demanded a change in how eBay reported their sales figures. In the past it always included auction wins and accepted offer amounts ... whether they got paid for or not. But this meeting or whatever that occurred resulted in a new standard whereby eBay could only report PAID sales.
What I would really like to know is this: was that discrepancy kept secret from the public beforehand, or was it already a generally 'known' thing, but the shareholders decided it was no longer acceptable? I know virtually nothing about corporate level economics, but I would guess (?) that had it been a secret, the revelation would have made a big splash, if not major news headlines then at least major news mentions and Community thread headlines, LOL. But if it was a known, given thing, why was it tolerated before ... but then not tolerated? There my only guess would be that paid/unpaid ratios used to be fairly steady, but in recent times became more erratic or maybe unpaid's had a sharp increase, and eBay didn't say anything about it, out of fear of spooking investors. Then when they found out, they were like "Okay enough of this."
Like I say I'm far too ignorant on the matter and probably shouldn't even be speculating, lol.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoBoth of your theories are perfectly logical - @sextons-sweet-deals Buyers don't want sellers using shill accounts to push up their winning bids, @dbfolks166mt Sellers don't buyers to not be held accountable for paying. And yeah the autopay feature theoretically addresses both of those concerns.
But it actually wasn't either of those things. Unfortunately it is rare for eBay to act based on what any users want; they care much more about what investors want. I don't have the details handy in front of me (I wish I had bookmarked the post -I think it was by @valueaddedresource ) but basically what happened was the stock shareholders demanded a change in how eBay reported their sales figures. In the past it always included auction wins and accepted offer amounts ... whether they got paid for or not. But this meeting or whatever that occurred resulted in a new standard whereby eBay could only report PAID sales.
This is probably not what lead to the current auto-pay changes since the change in their financial reporting happened/was done over 2.5 years ago. Following is a link to the change you are referencing.
If eBay was doing this out of their own best interest or it was being done to appease shareholders there would have been no pilot/test they would have implemented and been done with it. There would be NO option for the seller to opt out of the auto-pay. They probably would have also forced IPR on all BIN transactions.
https://investors.ebayinc.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2021/eBay-Announces-Change-to-Gross-Merchandise-Volume-Definition-and-Releases-Updated-Historical-Metrics/default.aspx
What I would really like to know is this: was that discrepancy kept secret from the public beforehand, or was it already a generally 'known' thing, but the shareholders decided it was no longer acceptable? I know virtually nothing about corporate level economics, but I would guess (?) that had it been a secret, the revelation would have made a big splash, if not major news headlines then at least major news mentions and Community thread headlines, LOL. But if it was a known, given thing, why was it tolerated before ... but then not tolerated? There my only guess would be that paid/unpaid ratios used to be fairly steady, but in recent times became more erratic or maybe unpaid's had a sharp increase, and eBay didn't say anything about it, out of fear of spooking investors. Then when they found out, they were like "Okay enough of this."
It was not kept secret from the public or the investors. The way eBay reported their Gross Merchandise Volume (GMV) was fully disclosed in their financial statements. However, the way they reported it inflated the GMV figures to make sales appear much greater than they actually were since initially it included ALL transactions/orders not just those that were consummated. There was nothing wrong with the way eBay was defining GMV as AICPA does not have a GAAP definition of gross merchandise value. This means that every company is responsible for defining the term for themselves.
Even with the 2021 changes and corrections to prior year GMV figures real GMV is still most likely overstated since it does not include reductions for returns, scams, lost merchandise................ that would negate a consummated transaction but that would be almost impossible to calculate, track or include in the quarterly and annual reports.
Like I say I'm far too ignorant on the matter and probably shouldn't even be speculating, lol.
tacoosh_rt2
·2 years agoHey Sellers, I didn't bid on two items today because of new "test" bid pay process. I'm primarily a buyer, so yes, less bidders=less money for sellers. Sellers should **bleep** to eBay cause its costing you money.
rrr555
·2 years agoI won't buy with autopay. It sucks because about half the coin auctions are for autopay. Been on ebay for 23 years and always pay, but auto pay twice billed the wrong preferred method on paypal; once the wrong card and the other time my bank account which caused a 5 day delay to ship due to slow clearing of funds. Bought over $100K 2 years in a row and heading there again, but now have to greatly slow my buying. And yes combined ship becomes a headache waiting for refunds or dealing with sellers who say they won't refund and combine shipping. This is a real dumb move by ebay in my opinion
gurlcat
·2 years agoI'm curious, will you continue trying to bid, like check to see if an auction has the autopay feature, or will you just avoid auctions and do BIN purchases only?
rrr555
·2 years agoThat's a good question. I still bid from auctions that don't have autopay or I watch them in hopes of bidding later. But when I see autopay I don't bid. And lately about half the auctions I go to bid on have autopay, so I don't bother bidding. So my buying has been greatly reduced. And this hurts ebay and the sellers because I win a ton but also come in second high bidder even more which drives the winning price higher. I hope ebay has software that can track how autopay auctions are doing and that if they see they are selling for quite a bit less; that they will get rid of autopay or just use it for new buyers or buyers who sometimes don't pay for autions
gurlcat
·2 years agoBoy howdy I agree -and if they don't realize it devastates winning dollar amounts .....
.... well let me rephrase. -If they don't RESPOND to that devastation by stopping this nonsense, then I don't see how we could conclude anything other than it being a desired effect, to make the auction format die slowly. If they wanted to get rid of it for some reason, this would probably be a wiser way than just ending it suddenly. That would probably cause a sudden mass exodus of buyers and sellers. But a slow and steady increase in discomfort, well that's how you boil a frog without it jumping out of the pan.
itsjustasprain
·2 years agoHow can you tell which auctions have autopay enabled without actually trying to submit a bid?
Knowing how to tell would be enormously helpful because I want to stay unseen in an auction until its too late for you to counterbid against me (or at least too late for you to push my snipe bid price even higher before the auction ends) but I would like to know in advance if I am going to have to factor in another 5 seconds or so to deal with a popup demand screen for payment info.
gurlcat
·2 years agoYou're talking about sniping and there is no way to know if this popup is going to kill your final-seconds stealth. That is the one of the absolute worst parts of this. -I say that as both a buyer and seller. I use a sniper bot for bidding, and I (used to) sell via auction, 1 or 2 a week in addition to my BIN listings. But the last couple of auctions that I ran, they closed with no snipers, which NE-VER happened before -that was always where the biggest money bids came in. And I didn't even have my preference set to require pre-auth payments. The buyers are just bowing out of even trying, so I'm bowing out of auctions unless/until eBay stops this madness.
itsjustasprain
·2 years agoThat was my understanding too. But @rrr555 seems to be implying that there is a way to tell how to see an autopay setting and therefore not bid on that one. ('But when I see autopay I don't bid.')
gurlcat
·2 years agoUnless they reply something different, my guess would just be that when they attempt to place a bid, if it generates the popup window, they don't go through with it. There is no way to tell the auctions apart in this regard until you actually try to bid.
rrr555
·2 years agoTo bid, you hit "place bid" and then you make your bid. The way to know it's autopay is that when you click "place bid"; the autopay auctions will show the info about your payment method and that it's autopay on the page you are about to bid. So when I go to bid and see it's autopay; I don't bid. When I click "place bid" and there is no autopay info than I either bid or watch the item
a_c_green
·2 years agoThat sheds a bit more clarity on this; thanks! I was wondering the same thing.
In my buying account, I generally get my bid keyed in ahead of time (maybe 20 seconds in advance, something like that), then wait for the final seconds before actually hitting the submit button, so of course that would be the worst possible time to have an unexpected popup appear instead. If all I need to do is hit the Bid button in advance and see which screen appears (i.e. a payment info form or just the expected bidding window), then I could live with that.
Nevertheless, it would make a lot more sense to just have the prospective bidder add this to his basic account profile, and not to be confronted over and over again with each seller to provide (or confirm) the same info each time.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoit would make a lot more sense to just have the prospective bidder add this to his basic account profile, and not to be confronted over and over again with each seller to provide (or confirm) the same info each time.
@a_c_green
At this point, the pop-up is the warning that you, as a buyer, are about to participate in auto-pay situation where each auction win will be billed immediately, and combined shipping is not going to be an option. I want the warning. I am likely NEVER to fill out the form in the first place, if I ever did, I sure would not want it to transfer to my next seller without some sort of notification appearing. Its not like eBay puts a "star" or a big red "A" anywhere on the listing that tells me it is going to be another seller with the default BUYER RULES once again. I don't want any monetary information ON FILE for this purpose.
gurlcat
·2 years agoOkay just to make aaaaabsolutely sure, when you're looking at a listing and hit 'place bid' you get the autopay window warning BEFORE you get this window where you can enter your bid amount
And not AFTER you click "Bid" ?
The reason I ask is, if you misspoke in that answer, or if you are remembering incorrectly, and it actually doesn't happen until after you click 'Bid' .... and the seller does NOT require pre-auth, then you've actually placed a bid and you'd be making your presence known. Like I just did here, LOL.
This wouldn't matter early in an auction like this one ^ is, but if you're cruising 'ending soonest' listings for auctions you might want to snipe, having a bid on record because you were just testing to see if it requires pre-auth, that would SUH-HUH-HUH-HUH-UUUCKKKK.
rrr555
·2 years agoYes; you are right; you don't have to bid to find out. You click "place bid" and you get the page to enter your bid. And at the same time as the bid page comes up; you can see under where you would bid is the autopay info. So they are both on the same page. The autopay info is just below where you would bid. So if you don't want autopay, then you don't bid.
This past week for me in buying coins has seen about half the auctions that I wanted to bid on; come with autopay. So I bid on none with autopay. But this gets tiring and isn't fun; so I find myself losing interest in buying. Instead of bidding on 15 or 20 auctions each day this past week; as I usually do; I've bid on only a couple of auctions each day this past. And instead of winning anywhere from 30 to 50 auctions the past week; I've only won about 5 or 6 auctions. I don't do buy it nows because auction prices are lower if patient; so for now this autopay is driving me away from ebay.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoI'm curious, will you continue trying to bid, like check to see if an auction has the autopay feature,
@gurlcat
As a buyer I would check. That is likely because I already know what this does to me as a buyer from coming here, not from anything eBay has told me. If it was there, I would X out of the whole thing and move on. eBay has started to ramp up their enrollment of BUYER IDs into forced compliance. Again, it only works to force the buyer to comply IF THE SELLER RETAINS THE DEFAULT REQUIREMENT. It takes BOTH the requirement remaining in place on the seller's end, AND the Buyer ID to be auto enrolled.
I don't know exactly how they are pitching this "New experience" on buyers lately, but from the buyer posts asking essentially 'what the heck just happened' or 'why are my auction wins not in the cart' etc., you can be sure that there is nothing to tell buyers that their payment choices are going to be limited, and they will be paying full price on all shipping, get ten individual charges to their credit card, and invoicing for combined shipping is no longer going to be allowed.
Buyers that fell for this the last go-round were not pleased. Those that came here found out what caused it, and how to avoid it happening in the future. Others likely left the site, others perhaps just did a BIN or did nothing. eBay even turned it off for a while, but has now been enthusiastically enrolling more buyers into forced compliance.
As far as sniping goes, a buyer never knows when that enrollment can occur. They may be fine bidding on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, but Thursday at the auction end they may have been put into compliance and have to waste time filling out that form. A buyer never knows when that is going to happen. After they are already "in", AND THE SELLER RETAINS the new "Buyer Rule" as it has been renamed, they won't be asked again if they should bid manually on that item. Don't know if this would block a bid by a sniping service.
Even after the last fiasco with this, there are still sellers who don't know what keeping those BUYER RULES does exactly. eBay used to have warnings on the older page version telling sellers that turning them off would cause them to have non-paying bidders. There is no warning telling sellers that leaving the defaults set to YES in place will cause them to lose the benefits of paying buyers who bid or make offers.
Sellers that don't know what is going to cause the up and coming downturn in bidding may feel like upping their PL would help. eBay would like that I am sure. I would say advertising in your listing on the first line that you are a "buyer friendly seller, do not require an upfront payment source, and offer REAL combined shipping" would be a better plan. For those that did it last time, it worked really well.
gurlcat
·2 years agoShoot, it might even be worth sacrificing some characters in the title, "NO AUTOPAY". But I really think this thing is bound to spook some buyers completely after the first time they run into it, thinking it's just going to be that way with every auction, so they'll start filtering auctions out of their search results.
luckythewinner
·2 years agoIt is interesting that for years so many sellers on this board have lambasted eBay for not forcing auction buyers to pay immediately and claim that it would be "simple" to implement it. And now that eBay is finally doing it, so many sellers on this board think it it is a terrible idea and do not want it.
hknumismatics
·2 years agoThe issue has not so much been that there are so many unpaid orders - but after it moved away from "Unpaid item cases" to simply the option of cancelling an order after 4 days of non-payment my experience was that more and more buyers simply did just not pay.
They could keep creating new accounts and keep bidding with other sellers without any repercussions.
I don't have a problem with eBay requiring a payment card on file in case voluntary payment has not been made within X timeframe. But such X timeframe should either be possible for the seller to set (which would be visible in the auction - at least 24hrs should be allowed for people to manually pay/combine) or it should be a longer time period e.g. 4 days or 7 days.
Sometimes with regular buyers in my weekly sale I will allow them to hold payment until they can combine with next auction batch etc. This requires them to communicate with me, else I will normally send out friendly messages after the 4 day normal payment period has passed.
gurlcat
·2 years agoMy concern is less about combined shipping and more about the drastic reduction in winning bid amounts to expect if sniping is stymied, including bot sniping. -That's where a huge portion of my dollar amounts have always tended to come from, the final 1-10 seconds of my auctions. I haven't run an auction in about 3 weeks now because of this. I can't afford to give my stuff away.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoMy concern is less about combined shipping and more about the drastic reduction in winning bid amounts to expect if sniping is stymied, including bot sniping. -That's where a huge portion of my dollar amounts have always tended to come from, the final 1-10 seconds of my auctions. I haven't run an auction in about 3 weeks now because of this. I can't afford to give my stuff away.
This may be an interesting scenario. From what I gather, although there are no details provided, if a snipier has a default payment method and shipping address associated with the account it should not cause stymy the sniping the bid will simply default to their pre established payment method and shipping address. Hopefully this proves out during the pilot test. If not I agree this could be an issue and would concern me also since I use the auction format almost exclusively.
a_c_green
·2 years agoYes, absolutely. To date I've asked that question more than once, but have not had a detailed answer yet. The latest frustrating go-round on this question can be seen in the Seller Update discussion group, which will be running through end of tomorrow (Friday, June 28):
https://community.ebay.com/t5/2024-Summer-Seller-Update/We-re-testing-changes-to-auction-sales-that-ll-help-you-easily/m-p/34537771#M78
gurlcat
·2 years agoThank you for that!!
a_c_green
·2 years agoYou're welcome, and in a later answer from them today, it seems like the worst-case scenario is the case: a bidder who has had no previous interaction with a seller who is requiring payment info in advance will be confronted by a demand for payment info before his bid is accepted, thus risking a block on snipe bidding in the final seconds. This will result in a lower final selling price for the seller, and thus lower Final Value Fees for eBay as well.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoYou're welcome, and in a later answer from them today, it seems like the worst-case scenario is the case: a bidder who has had no previous interaction with a seller who is requiring payment info in advance will be confronted by a demand for payment info before his bid is accepted, thus risking a block on snipe bidding in the final seconds. This will result in a lower final selling price for the seller, and thus lower Final Value Fees for eBay as well.
This one I find really odd. So if a buyer has already established a payment method and shipping address from bidding on previous auctions or offers they are basically saying that each time a potential bidder or offeror interacts with a new seller they have to establish their payment method and shipping address again rather than it defaulting to what they have established before?
This could get really ugly for the buyers very quickly since I am assuming by the process you describe the buyers would have multiple payment methods and shipping addresses, one associated with each seller that they would have to maintain. Something seems a bit off about this.
gurlcat
·2 years agoUgh. But see, I don't view that as the worst case scenario. I am not as worried about the occasional Buyer Bob's ability to bid freely on my item ..... as I am about him not even seeing my item, because his bid was stymied on Seller Sally's auction last week, and didn't know it was because of her (default) preference setting (which she had no clue about) and he had no way to know this new thing varies depending on the seller .... he just thought, "Welp, guess is this is how auctions are on eBay now, so guess I'm done with auctions on eBay!" and now he either filters searches by Buy It Now only, or has left the platform completely.
Now multiply Bob times however many buyers encounter the popup window the first time, and come to the same conclusion.
It is uncharacteristic of me to be this hyperbolic, but I truly see this as the effective end of auctions on eBay. It wouldn't take all buyers who previously participated in auctions deciding not to anymore .... it wouldn't even take half of them .... if even, heck I don't know, 10% of them decide they're done with it, the resulting lower-dollar closing amounts would have a chilling effect on sellers, one by one, who would then only do BIN's (which I'm resorting to), or auctions with their desired minimal dollar amount as the starting bid .... which would just chill more bidders. Do you get what I'm saying? It's bound to have a terrible snowball effect!
hknumismatics
·2 years agoOverall this sounds absolutely terrible.
I run auctions usually once a week when I am home and have enough items/time to do so. Usually 50 to 200 items ending Sunday evening US-time. About 50-80% of my orders require combined shipping. Furthermore if a buyer wins something very expensive (which is hard to know when listing an auction as you don't know the final price) shipping by Fedex instead of postal service etc. may be required for insurance purposes - which alters the postage.
So overall there would be a large amount of disgruntled bidders/buyers if they were automatically charged for each item - and lots of extra work with refunds from me as a seller.
Also in the case of different transportation methods needed either by request of the buyer or due to high value items requiring different choice of courier it would be very hard to request more payment as a seller after eBay already charged the buyer...
Overall just seems lika an absolutely terrible system for people running auction batches (which I assume is the normal way to run auctions - at least all sellers I know in my industry posts everything in batches to facilitate for both buyers making combined purchases and as a seller getting more intense work on one or two days a week instead of a constant flow - which is important if eBay is not your full time occupation).
I would 100% not want any of my auctions subjected to this system...
Edit: This is not to mention all the problems with sales tax and VAT that will arise as there are thresholds where a combined order above e.g. 1500 USD in US (? or just California?) is not subject to sales tax. Similarly small value orders to EU buyer's get charged VAT by eBay if UNDER 150 EUR, and above that it is not charged by eBay. So there would be a complete mess of inappropriate sales tax and VAT charges as each item would be handled as a separate order rather than combining items to one order/invoice.
sin-n-dex
·2 years agoThis whole thread is hurting my brain...
When is this "test" supposed to be starting? I have weekly auctions from now until sometime in September. Just wondering how soon I need to think of bailing on auctions and list this stuff as fixed price. (That being the case, I'd better sell this stuff fast).
C.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoIt started.
I made a bid two days ago.
I got blocked bidding on a second item of the same seller but not by the seller.
I sent an email to seller and seller manage to undo the "501".
At 2:30AM I was allowed to bid on his other auctions.
Apparently I am on the "test"...newbies employees in eBay creating but don't buy or sell on eBay do these things which they know nothing about.
So if I didn't contact buyer I couldn't bid on a second item.
Yes, it **bleep** me off...
So when I made a bid...it shows in bold letters my payment option and will be charged in one hour after auction if I win...with no changes. I am talking big bold letters...
That was a turn off for me...
buyselljack2016
·2 years agojust double check that you are opted out of the requirement and press on as usual.
the change is just "the 1 hour" thing, and is only for those sellers that are requiring the pre authorization of payment by a bidder
if you are opted out it is a "non issue".
ten_o_nine
·2 years agoeBay will implement changes based on eBay's needs, not customer needs. Then, they will present it to the customer as enhancements that will help them, and they should be thankful to eBay.
Never involve customers (Buyers or Sellers) in the process, or maybe they have a process, but I would like to see the credentials of their business analysts.
carlmarxx
·2 years agoThis doesn't help the sellers that do know how to run their business and how to deal with issues that pop up now then . Including using the tools that ebay has already in place to help deal with problem buyers including lowering number Buyer UPI's in certain category's that are known to have large number of UPI's . I have had phone conversations with U.S. ebay Supervisors when ebay pushed the stupide Offer with payment required = IPR and that you can't do combined shipping. I said to them smart seller's like me don't need it .That it isn't are problem ebay has lazy sellers that don't use the tools to deal with none paying buyers ,That those seller's should use BIN with IPR listings with no make offers . These lazy sellers crying to ebay for help with quick fix policy ,just cause's problems for rest of sellers that didn't need ebay butting in.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoI made a bid on an auction this week and got that...guess I am in the "test market'.
The way I read it I am billed in one hour...cannot change form of payment after my bid.
I don't like surprises and this caught me off guard. And every time I increase the bid this "signage" appears.
I didn't win the auction because frankly I don't like to be "tested" on something NEW.
Why don't THESE eBay employees find a way for International Buyers to add items to a cart and ask for a "shipping total".
I had to refund 21 combined shipping total items....in a week.
Fix what is broken FIRST.
And I had to ask seller can I bid on more than 1 item 2 days ago...seller said it was the old "501".
Again, fix what is broken before adding new features.
dbfolks166mt
·2 years agoNot that it's ideal but at least they have made some improvement. Under the initial pilot, before they ended it, you didn't even have an hour. Not sure why they didn't use something like three days which is a day under when you used to be able to cancel a sale for non-payment.
I use the auction format almost exclusively and all my auctions end on Sunday. Most buyers pay sometime on Sunday but it's a weekend and a lot of people are doing other things. A lot of my payments come later in the evening or VERY early Monday morning since I am on the east coast and the west coast buyers may not get to paying until I am out of it for the day. An hour is hardly sufficient for any buyer wanting to make an adjustment to their payment method.
It will take some time to iron the bugs out of this and eBay must realize that the non-paying buyers are becoming a major issue for sellers. Count the postings on this forum complaining about the issue and the canned answer switch to BIN/IPR and it will solve all your problems.
The combined shipping is the other major issue that will need a resolution but this has never worked 100% with BIN either. I just went through a combined shipping issue with a buyer and had to have him pay the shipping on the individual items and then refund him the difference.
eburtonlab
·2 years agoGiving a Buyer one hour to select a payment method might work for ONE single solitary auction they are bidding on from one Seller. But what about Sellers like me who have Auctions ending all weekend long at times and who have customers who will bid on several auctions spread out over 2- 2/12 days?
It sounds like the one hour window would only apply to buyers who are part of that test when the seller also requires a payment method in advance to place a bid.
Presumably sellers with multiple auctions running over many days that want their buyers to be able to combine shipping for those auctions at checkout would opt out of the payment method in advance requirement to make that possible.
Unfortunately eBay has made so many recent changes and subjected users to "tests" and opted users into various default settings without providing an explanation of how things are actually supposed to work that no one really knows for sure if how it worked yesterday is how it works today or how it will work tomorrow, or if one user's experience applies to another's.
eBay seems determined to set up a one-size-fits-all approach and then let sellers opt out, when a more flexible and transparent approach is probably called for.
eBay could let each seller pick a number of days during which auctions could be combined. From the buyer's point of view, this could be displayed in the seller's listing: "This seller allows auctions to be combined at checkout over four days from the first auction win. If the buyer has not completed checkout to combine shipping for additional auction wins, exactly 96 hours from the first auction win, all auctions won from this seller since then will be automatically charged to the buyer's default payment method using whatever combined shipping rule the seller has specified."
That way a seller that only lists auctions once per week and has them all end around the same time can pick a one day window, and sellers that list continuously and have lots of repeat buyers that want to combine auction wins can set a window as large as they think makes sense for them (Four days? Seven days? Thirty days?). Sellers would be assured that buyers have provided a payment method in advance that would cover the total cost and could be charged, and buyers would have the option to complete checkout and choose a different payment method at any time within that window before the default payment method kicks in at the end.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoI could not find where eBay will let Sellers opt out of this program altogether.
@mr_lincoln
This morning prior to having coffee, I did not find the "option" either. It was pointed out to me that it is still there. It is no longer at the bottom of this page as before:
https://www.ebay.com/bmgt/buyerrequirements
and it has been "renamed" under Buyer Rules.
I don't know if it means sellers still have the option to not require this of their buyers or not. You can ask in the "special board" for questions about this update here:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/2024-Summer-Seller-Update/We-re-testing-changes-to-auction-sales-that-ll-help-you-easily/m-p/34536358#M14
I have truly believed that this is designed to cut down on "multiple items for one shipping cost" as opposed to cutting down on non-paying bidders. eBay gets more money this way, and a higher GMV count with separate transactions, even if they are 'cancelled' after the fact. I suppose they are still hopeful in "training buyers" as opposed to actually providing a "great buyer experience" and sanctioning those that don't follow the rules.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@ittybitnot , @eburtonlab , @hartungcards , @jrhspecialtyservices , @brightlightbookseller
-eBay has always been good at juggling one ball ... this new function points to that mentality
-I have NEVER seen eBay quantify the % of Auctions that end in an Unpaid item. What are we really trying to solve for anyway???
-I think the current process to wait 4 days and then cancel on day 5 is sufficient, it was an improvement over the previous UPI processing time frame
-Not all buyers are around when an auction ends, they may need more time, Sellers cannot assume that THEIR selected end day and time is convenient for all interested parties.
-My issue with all this messing around that eBay is doing is that they are trying to compensate for choices Sellers have the option to make or not. Meaning, if Sellers choose to use the Auction format or BIN format and the Offer process then they are the ones who need to take the risk with timely payments or non-payments. And if it means having to deal with an occasional UPI then that comes with the territory pure and simple. I get UPIs too but the % is low.
-This test is not for Buying accounts, it clearly states "Buyers on select Auctions" ... it does not say Selling accounts, it reads like it is Auction listing specific and Buyers wanting to bid on a "selected Auction" will have to comply to the new payment requirement. To me that means that if I have 50 Auction listings eBay may select one or more and require any interested parties to use the Auto-pay functionality as part of the test. So while this may wind up being a rare occurrence, the is possible that a potential customer could bid on one of my Auctions with no special requirement then try to bid on another Auction and be confronted with this new process ... I am confident the Buyer would blame the Seller thus creating a very BAD situation that a Seller has to explain ... and that assumes the Seller(s) even knows what's going on.
dirk12955
·2 years agoThis reads like it's another "Improvement" by an ebay employee that has neither bought nor sold
on this site,
I'm glad I stopped running auctions entirely.
eburtonlab
·2 years ago-This test is not for Buying accounts, it clearly states "Buyers on select Auctions" ... it does not say Selling accounts, it reads like it is Auction listing specific and Buyers wanting to bid on a "selected Auction" will have to comply to the new payment requirement.
But surely that still only applies only if the seller actually opts to require a payment method in advance for auctions -- if the seller does not require a payment method specified in advance, then there is no need for any window or deadline at all beyond whatever time-frame the seller chooses to impose after the standard four full days the buyer has to pay.
Perhaps I am mistaken, but my understanding is buyers still have four full days to pay unless the seller specifically requires a payment method in advance to place a bid. In that specific case, the buyer is required to provide a payment method prior to bidding, and that payment method is charged immediately at the end of the auction if the buyer wins, or else eBay allows the buyer an hour to arrange payment otherwise, and eBay tells the buyer about this ahead of time.
If you as a seller have no requirement for a payment method in advance, your bidders will not be asked to provide a default payment method at all, so none of that would seem to apply.
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@eburtonlab
This is an ongoing complaint, they SELDOM explain in detail exactly how something like this works. That setting can be turned back on by eBay too by the way because they did it to my account AFTER I turned it OFF on both the Offer and Auction flows. This was when they were rolling it out to all accounts and NOT telling Sellers when they added it to their account. I found out because a disgruntled potential customer messaged me saying they would NOT bid on my auction because a payment method was required ... that is the only way I was notified, by losing a potential customer (thanks eBay).
So I turned those settings off and a week later eBay turned them BOTH back ON ... yes, they did that. I couldn't believe it. Now I check every once in a while. So I honestly don't think it matters, I think this is something eBay is doing in the background outside Seller settings.
I also posed the question, how does a Seller know if ONE of their auctions is a "select" auction per the new feature????? It is very clear eBay will NOT tell them so if a Buyer simply selects a payment method, wins an auction and pays the Seller may never know their auction item was part of the test. This is bad on many level ...
lotzofuniquegoodies
·2 years ago@mr_lincoln
@eburtonlab
This is just another instance of eBay features/tools/defaults tripping over each other and causing more grief than was ever considered. Can requesting/combining on shipping get any more difficult than it already is now?
-Lotzofuniquegoodies
chapeau-noir
·2 years agoThis is a great description of the tangled up mess these changes often result in.
I quit running auctions because they don't work for what I generally sell, but my feeling has always been that a 24-hour window (not four days) for payment is plenty long enough for a default, but with the option of a seller setting that payment window as they do now, up to 30 days - easy enough to alert any bidders to the seller's payment window. Having to wait so long as four days for a deadbeat I think is the biggest pain point, at least that's a big reason why I quit auctions for other items.
lotzofuniquegoodies
·2 years ago@ittybitnot
If a buyer wants to bid/buy over several days it also becomes an issue for the seller if they have a specific shipping setup like ships in 24 hrs. Because seller has mutually agreed with buyer to ship together any additional sales they are considered late according to ebay. There is no way to escape this rabbit hole once you fall in. Only reason I bring this up is because it happened to me recently where buyer was planning on purchasing multiple items but in the end changed their mind. (In my situation the items in question were BIN.)
Total agreement it is to make combined shipping much more difficult.
-Lotz
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@ittybitnot
You bring up some good points (which you do on a regular basis I might add and I thank you for that!).
The other issue with the 1 hour part of the test is this. Sellers determine when an auction will end and it may not be convenient for a Buyer to be there when it ends is a bad assumption on eBay's part. Say an auction ends at 3 PM Sunday but the Buyer is with their family at the beach for the weekend returning Sunday night after 8 PM .... ERRNT! Buyer misses the 1 hour window and NO eBay, you can't assume every Buyer is working on their mobile device and will interrupt their personal schedule to watch an auction end.
eBay takes virtually nothing like this into consideration when they launch some hair brained idea like this.
I have been thinking about this more lately and I think they should simply tell Sellers that if they run Auctions or use the Offer process and do not require Immediate payment or opt in to Auto-Pay that they may experience unpaid items ... meaning, it's the Sellers choice and if they don't like the results of their choice then deal with it or change how they sell, period.
lotzofuniquegoodies
·2 years ago@mr_lincoln
The more I read along with this discussion the more I think that no one on the team considered the "what if's" senarios that were possible and their ramifications!! It has helped me realize using auctions is not for the faint of heart. 😩
-Lotzofuniquegoodies.
@sin-n-dex
Total agreement re: headache
mr_lincoln
OP2 years ago@lotzofuniquegoodies
BINGO!!!
Look, I GET eBay trying to find a one size fits all - one ball juggling solution to the UPIs on Auctions (and I will just focus on Auctions and leave Offers out for now). I would be all for it if there was one but the fact is that there isn't and they should stop trying and put the onus back on the Seller, period. A Seller makes a CHOICE on how to sell their items and we've all heard "choices have consequences" right? So when selecting the Auction format eBay could do one of those nifty little red banner pop-ups and WARN Sellers that they risk not getting paid using the Auction format, period. Their choice, their risk, etc.
I know that a lot depends on what is being auctioned, I have sold literally THOUSANDS of items Auction style over a 9 year period and my UPI rate is extremely low. Now on to scenarios the Auto-pay does NOT cover, and these are ALL from my experience PRIOR to Auto-pay
-Buyer messages before they ever bid asking if they can have more time to pay
-Buyer messages AFTER winning an auction and asks for more time to pay
-Buyer messages after one auction win advising me they will be bidding on more and will pay when they are all done (at times this results in them requesting an updated invoice so I can Combine shipping BEFORE they pay to avoid having to Refund the shipping overage)
-Buyer asks if I will sell sooner than the end of the auction and I End the listing selling to them and send an invoice
-Buyer has placed a bid, realizes he is local and asks if he can pick up instead of having it shipped if they win. (NOTE: Listings without Local pick up and where immediate payment is NOT required CAN be changed from using shipping to Local pick up via sending an invoice - I know because I have done in the past)
I am sure other Sellers can provide other scenarios where Auto-pay won't work on Auctions.
hknumismatics
·2 years agoIn addition to scenarios listed by yourself (most of which I have encountered or encounter regularly).
Autopay would mess up VAT and Sales tax in many cases. As it will result in multiple orders when the seller has auctions ending over a period of more than the one hour allowed to pay. Often there are thresholds (high or low depending on circumstances) whereby VAT/sales tax is chargable or not.
Autopay would completely remove options of local pick-up for non-US buyers/sellers; in addition to changing for US buyers. (for myself listing on US eBay based outside US local pick-up option on eBay doesn't work as it thinks the buyer needs to have a US address rather than one that is local to where I am located!).
jrhspecialtyservices
·2 years agoAnother poor concept that will create more record keeping for the seller (processing refunds) & will most likely upset those buyers looking for a combined invoice on multiple auction wins by getting them confused and not wanting to deal with it.
hartungcards
·2 years agoNot to mention more "per-order" fees for eBay.
hartungcards
·2 years agoeBay is apparently unaware that not everyone just wins one auction and buys one thing at a time from a given seller who may be running multiple auctions. It's a concept they haven't grasped for quite some time now. This "test" will no doubt take its place at the end of the lengthy list of trainwrecks they've created in this department.
renegade-chance
·2 years agoOh good grief.
Doom & gloom over nothin'. Just use the "Opt Out" option and it's no problem.
Nothing to complain, gripe or bemoan over.
Up until 2 years ago around September when my sales for saddles pick up more for Christmas gifts, I would have stated "No way" for auto paid right away. I wanted customers to have up to a week to combine shipping on multiple items.
brightlightbookseller
·2 years agoAgreed, we don't run many auctions, but I wouldn't want this enabled on ours either. It just seems like it's going to discourage buyers and cause headache for sellers.