Stuck in return process: Damaged item, international buyer, and unresponsive seller
Hola a todos,
Necesito ayuda para devolver un artículo de cerámica que llegó dañado. Al abrir el paquete, noté que el artículo estaba astillado, pero, lo más importante, no había fragmentos ni piezas rotas dentro de la caja ni del envoltorio original. Esto indica que probablemente el artículo ya venía dañado. Además, el embalaje no tenía ninguna indicación de "Frágil".
Soy un comprador internacional (Panamá), pero utilicé una dirección de envío en Estados Unidos para la compra. El vendedor aceptó la devolución, pero me proporcionó una etiqueta de envío nacional de EE. UU. que no puedo usar desde donde me encuentro. Me he puesto en contacto con el vendedor varias veces proponiéndole un reembolso parcial justo de $10.73 para resolver el problema, pero ha dejado de responderme por completo.
La fecha límite para la devolución es el 7 de abril. Me preocupa que, si no envío el artículo, el caso se cierre automáticamente a favor del vendedor. He oído que NO debo cerrar ni cancelar la solicitud de devolución porque no podré reabrirla.
Mis preguntas son:
¿Existe alguna forma de que un representante de eBay revise manualmente los mensajes y las fotos antes de la fecha límite?
¿Cómo puedo protegerme si el vendedor se niega a ofrecer una solución de devolución internacional o a comunicarse conmigo sobre el reembolso parcial?
Dado que la devolución es logísticamente imposible, ¿cuál es la mejor manera de escalar este problema?
¡Gracias por su ayuda!
jonathanbrightlight
·5 months ago@mnlea-0
I can see you're set in your "righteous indignation", but I think it's clear you are just seeing this through your anger and not understanding at all. Hope you find peace in your future endeavors.
kensgiftshop
·5 months ago@mnlea-0
Sorry, you use a freight forwarder and you'll have to pay to ship it back to the freight forwarder.
The freight forwarder can use the provided label to ship it to the seller.
mnlea-0
OP5 months agoMr. Ken, thank you for your response. I find it interesting, and I’d like to ask you a question: considering all the details I described in my post... do you truly believe the answer you gave me is fair?
Personally, I agree that when a buyer uses a freight forwarder to take a package out of the country, they should be responsible for the return costs if they simply changed their mind and no longer want the item. However, I find it very unfair to force a buyer to pay international shipping fees that far exceed the price of the item when the seller is responsible for the damage—either due to poor packaging (and lack of proper labeling) or by intentionally shipping it that way.
On the other hand, I also consider it unfair to make the seller pay for a leg of the shipping journey that was not their responsibility. That is why I believe a partial refund is the best solution for both parties. I’m not sure what others here think, or if eBay's rules agree with my point of view, but I believe it would be the most just outcome. What is your opinion on this?
glorybells
·5 months agoHere’s why it’s that way:
When the seller ships the item to the freight forwarder, no one has any control over what happens to it at the freight forwarder. It could be broken, stolen, changed for another item, etc. To have the seller have to be responsible for what happens to the item after it reaches the freight forwarder would be very UNfair to the seller, so items that are handled that way are exempt from the Money Back Guarantee altogether.
mnlea-0
OP5 months agoThank you, glorybells. I appreciate your response. I agree that those are all possibilities, and I considered them before contacting the seller. Let me explain why I believe the seller is responsible in this specific case.
If the ceramic had broken during transit, the shards and small pieces would have been trapped inside the packaging. Since there were absolutely no shards in the box, it indicates the item was already damaged before it was packed.
Furthermore, even if a carrier or customs were involved, the responsibility lies with the seller for failing to label the box as 'Fragile.' This is not my first ceramic purchase, and most arrive with clear warnings. Without labels, nobody can guess the contents require careful handling.
I sent the seller photos of everything: the chipped item, the bubble wrap, and the box. If what I received didn't match the original packaging he used, why didn't he dispute it? As someone with selling experience myself, I always record my packaging process as a personal safeguard to provide evidence in case a problem arises. Why didn't he show his evidence or say, 'That’s not the packaging I used'?
If he had proven his innocence, I would have redirected my claim toward the carrier. Instead, he told me to open an eBay case, knowing I would end up stuck in this situation. That is why I believe the fault lies with him.
jonathanbrightlight
·5 months ago@mnlea-0
None of that matters according to eBay policy. Once the item is reshipped by a third party (your freight forwarder), you are no longer eligible for any coverage of the eBay Money Back Guarantee. Even taking it back if you are able to get it back to the forwarder and have them ship it back to the seller is more than the seller is required to do, per eBay policy.
mnlea-0
OP5 months agoThank you, Jonathan. I appreciate your response. I knew that sooner or later someone would show up to repeat the eBay manual, and I understand it perfectly. This case is going nowhere, and I don't intend to keep insisting here or with my seller.
I understand that I have lost. However, it wasn't because my case lacked logic or was nonsense; I lost because of an eBay system that allows these things to happen. Even so, I’d like to know your opinion, Jonathan: do you think eBay's rules are fair? What would you do if you were the one making the rules?
Regards, and thank you all for your responses.
jonathanbrightlight
·5 months ago@mnlea-0
I think the current set of rules are the only fair way to protect sellers who ship items to freight forwarders, and then have no reason to be responsible for those items after someone else has handled the item and re-shipped it. When you use a service like that, you must understand the risk that you are assuming.
kensgiftshop
·5 months agoYes, I thinks fair.
Why should the seller pay return shipping from your country, when they shipped it to the US?
How do you know the seller caused the problem and not the freight forwarder?
mnlea-0
OP5 months agoHello Ken. I respectfully suggest that you read the full thread before replying, as I have already addressed most of your points in my previous messages to you and glorybells.
I never suggested that the seller should pay for international shipping; I explicitly stated earlier that I don't find that fair. The fact that you are asking me that again shows you might have missed my previous explanation. My goal was always a partial refund to compensate for the damage, but the seller forced me into an eBay case, knowing it would lead to this dead end.
Regarding how I know it wasn't the carrier: I won't repeat the physical evidence of the missing shards, which I already detailed in my reply to glorybells. If the seller were innocent, he could have easily cooperated by showing his own packaging evidence or photos to help me redirect my claim toward the carrier. Instead, he has ignored me.
I hope you can understand these specific details now. Physics and lack of cooperation tell the story that the manual ignores.
jonathanbrightlight
·5 months ago@mnlea-0
No seller is or should be required to issue a refund (partial or not) without a return. No retailer has that as a standard policy.
mnlea-0
OP5 months agoLOL, Jonathan, you actually made me laugh. Not because of your message, but because I wrote to Ken and you jumped in immediately! I’m guilty too—I said I wouldn’t insist, but Ken is asking things I’ve already addressed.
Regarding your point about retailers not being 'obligated' to refund... that works for standard returns (like if a customer dislikes a color). But in cases of pre-shipping damage (which I proved with the missing shards, unless the seller proves otherwise), many serious retailers prefer a partial refund over paying for the return of an item that is now just trash.
You know perfectly well that returning this from my country is cost-prohibitive. By demanding a full return, you’re giving the seller the perfect excuse to keep my money after shipping a broken item. Besides, eBay DOES allow partial refunds and even recommends them to resolve disputes amicably. I assume you'll now cite some obscure policy to deny that too?
I’ve noticed you ignore the intellectual challenges in my arguments. I asked how you would make the rules, and you said nothing. I suppose if you think the rules are perfect, there’s no need to change them. And why say nothing about the seller’s lack of cooperation? Will you also say 'the seller isn't obligated to cooperate'? Or what about my suggestion to Ken to actually read the thread?
Since you both seem to read the same messages, I have one final question for you both. I give you my word I’ll leave after this.
If a US-based buyer contacted you because an item hasn’t arrived after three weeks, even though tracking says 'Delivered', and the seller refuses to help—what would you say? Would you be the type of mentors who simply say: 'Sorry, if tracking says delivered, the seller fulfilled their part, there’s nothing to be done'?
Everyone knows carriers like USPS often mark items as 'Delivered' just to meet deadlines without actually dropping them off. I bet you’d tell them to 'ask their neighbors' or that 'nothing can be done.'
It’s exactly like my case. In both scenarios, the buyer loses due to technicalities or loopholes in eBay’s policy. You defend the manual, but you ignore the reality of the fraud or the error 😉
kensgiftshop
·5 months agoThe seller has cooperated, they accepted the return and provided a shipping label.
No matter what you think, that's all the seller has to do.
If tracking shows it was delivered, the buyer needs to contact the carrier and find out where it was delivered.
If it was misdelivered, the carrier can try to retrieve the package.
kensgiftshop
·5 months agoI did read your post.
As far as a partial refund, that's up to the seller.
They can offer a partial or ask for the item to be returned.
As far as the missing broken pieces, how do you know the freight forwarder didn't break it and throw the broken pieces away when they reshipped it.
Either way, you lost your MBG and you're lucky the seller accepted the return.
mnlea-0
OP5 months agoKen, with all due respect, the idea that a high-volume carrier would take the time to open a package, meticulously remove every single shard and dust particle of ceramic to 'hide' the damage, and then reseal it perfectly just to ship it to me, is—to put it mildly—highly imaginative. It is far more likely and logical that a seller shipped an already damaged item than a logistics employee performing a 'forensic cleanup' of a box.
However, I cannot deny that sometimes reality is stranger than fiction. If the carrier actually did what you suggest, there is no way for me to know on my own; that is precisely why I needed the seller’s cooperation.
In a case like this, there are several parties involved: the seller (who is unfortunately the first person a buyer would turn to, as the absence of shards points to him as the primary responsible party); however, if he could prove to me with evidence that the item was intact when he packed and delivered it to his shipping agency, it would mean the package was tampered with by someone else.
In that scenario, only two suspects would remain: my freight forwarder or the domestic carrier he used within the US. If the seller proved his innocence, I would then have to go to my transport company and file a complaint; they would have to prove they didn't open or break the object. If they succeeded, the only remaining suspect would be the domestic carrier. I would then notify the seller so he could refund my money, and he, in turn, would have to claim the damage from them.
But even if either company broke it, they could easily wash their hands of it because the seller failed to label the box as 'Fragile.' And what happens if he did place the labels and shipped the item well-packed but has no proof? Well, unfortunately, in today’s world—where scams from both abusive buyers and dishonest sellers abound—having evidence is essential. If you don't have it, you end up paying the price.
I have seen my seller's profile and confirmed he has been selling on eBay for years, so it’s hard for me to believe he has no proof of his shipments. Regrettably, his refusal to cooperate makes me think he shipped the item this way on purpose, knowing I wouldn't be able to return it or do anything about it.
As you, Ken, and Jonathan (who is surely around here) have mentioned, by using a freight forwarder, I lost eBay’s protection. I don’t think there’s much more I can do; I’ve tried contacting agents without success. My only hope is that someone reads these messages.
Jonathan mentions that eBay’s policy is the most suitable for protecting sellers, but it isn’t perfect. It has loopholes that leave international buyers exposed to seller scams, just as it can leave sellers exposed to malicious buyers.
I will leave you and Jonathan to your eBay manuals, but I at least hope this thread serves as a warning to other international buyers and sellers. Regards.
kensgiftshop
·5 months agoRight, you don't know where the damage happened, but it doesn't matter.
The seller was nice enough to accept the return, even though you lost your MBG when it was reshipped.
You have two options, keep it and be happy or return it.
If it's nothing but trash as you say, why would you settle for a partial refund?