Returns Advice: Who Should Pay Shipping?

Hello--

I recently bought a pair of leather dress shoes that appear to be vintage with some very light imperfections, but I believe they are unworn. The seller initially had them listed at $150 which I didn't consider, but a few days later he sent me a $105 offer. The shipping charge of $18 and change was high but I accepted.

A few days ago the shoes arrived, and I was a bit underwhelmed. Once in my hand I could see the leather is very stiff and dry from about 50 years of being stored in a garage or somewhere. I tried one on and it was really snug--the leather had certainly shrunk about a half size--and I didn't even bother to put the second one on. I sent the seller a cordial message advising that while the shoes look great, I really have no confidence they can be worn to the office without cracking or splitting; that I would like to take him up on his "returns accepted" offer. The seller advised I should make the request through eBay.

The question now: Do I select the "doesn't fit" option, whereby I eat $30 in both-way shipping (for some reason he charged me $18.40 in shipping, but eBay is saying they will deduct $10.62 to send them back through USPS), or do I go with one of the "not-as-described" options (I wrote him before accepting to confirm there are no flaws/no reason why I can't wear these to work, to which he reassured that the condition is excellent) where shipping would be refunded? I would be amenable to splitting the shipping costs, but there is no option for it.

In summation, my dilemma is whether I want to get involved in a back-and-forth dispute and get dragged into negative energy, or if I should eat the $30 and learn my lesson about buying "vintage" leather shoes on eBay. Thank you for your advice.

raymondbitterlick

1151 View listings

Posted 1 year ago·Last reply 1 year ago

26 comments

ryry-jj

·1 year ago

1912 View listings

I'm filing a NAD case for a full return...the seller knew more about the condition of the shoes than any buyer ever would. They knew they were hard and unflexable, but had they said that, no one would purchase. File a NAD

raymondbitterlick

OP1 year ago

1151 View listings

OP here.

I did in fact call into eBay CS for assistance--I had initially selected "doesn't fit" as the reason, and was unable to change it--and the phone rep pushed it through as "NAD" once I described the issues. A courtesy return label was generated, I printed it out and stuck it on the box, and my full money (original purchase price, tax, shipping) has been refunded.

I have certainly learned my lesson about buying "vintage shoes" sight-unseen, and I sincerely thank all of you for taking the time to steer me in the right direction here.

mtgraves7984

·1 year ago

2740 View listings

@raymondbitterlick

I think the "no issues" verbiage added at the top (under 'Condition') of the listing makes it a NAD at its face. I'd choose that.

tobaccocardyahoo

·1 year ago

5488 View listings

I am a seller who has never and would never sell used shoes.

I would never sell them because of exactly the situation you are a part of.

The look great in a photo and are unwearable due to age related defects.

I encourage you to file an NAD dispute and never buy used shoes on any site again.

Any seller who offered these shoes should have considered this potential result of the transaction, and perhaps they did.

albertabrightalberta

·1 year ago

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.104 View listings

@tobaccocardyahoo wrote:

I encourage you to file an NAD dispute and never buy used shoes on any site again.

Any seller who offered these shoes should have considered this potential result of the transaction, and perhaps they did.

I'm not sure I agree with the advice to not buy used shoes.

I've bought and flipped many pairs of preowned shoes but before buying them, I bend and manipulate them to make sure they don't fall apart. (I've left behind shoes because they didn't pass my test!)

Buyers should verify with sellers that the shoes can be bent without disintegrating.

soh.maryl

·1 year ago

110 View listings

Actually, I buy used shoes often and on eBay and never have had an unpleasant experience. The few brands of shoes that I like and know will fit without trying them on are relatively expensive when new and aren't cheap even when bought used. Of course, none are listed as vintage either.

raymondbitterlick

OP1 year ago

1151 View listings

Thanks to everyone for chiming in--I appreciate it!

A few have alluded to the fact that it's a "buyer's remorse" issue, which it definitely is not. These shoes look great and I would love to add them to my office rotation, but the leather is like hard plastic; I did not know this until I had them in my hands. I didn't even bother to try the right shoe on, because the left shoe felt so uncomfortable and I had the sense that the sole will split if I walk too far. Should I have known this is the nature of old leather and therefore the onus is on me to pay shipping both ways? Upon receiving and inspecting them, it's my strong opinion that these shoes cannot be worn.

After receiving the seller's unsolicited offer, I did message him and ask if there are any issues that might preclude me from wearing these shoes regularly at work, and he responded to reiterate they are in excellent condition and appear to be unworn. It appears I am unable to post the link to the transaction, but here is the item number: 187354817738.

albertabrightalberta

·1 year ago

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.104 View listings

@raymondbitterlick wrote:
I had the sense that the sole will split if I walk too far. Should I have known this is the nature of old leather and therefore the onus is on me to pay shipping both ways? Upon receiving and inspecting them, it's my strong opinion that these shoes cannot be worn.

After receiving the seller's unsolicited offer, I did message him and ask if there are any issues that might preclude me from wearing these shoes regularly at work, and he responded to reiterate they are in excellent condition and appear to be unworn. It appears I am unable to post the link to the transaction, but here is the item number: 187354817738.

The red IS exactly what happens with dry rot! Often, if you bend the shoes (which I don't advise if you plan to return them), the soles will actually crack and split.

From the description, "Listed as pre-owned, but they're very close to new" would make these shoes as "NAD" (not as described).

12345jamesstamps

·1 year ago

8703 View listings

'eat the $30.' and maybe you won't get blocked from future purchases.

To be honest, our feet can get swollen sometimes depending on the time of the day, temperatures and so on.

Seller taking less $45.00 was nice of the seller.

Seller already is losing money from this sale.

stainlessenginecovers

·1 year ago

5484 View listings

@12345jamesstamps wrote:
'eat the $30.' and maybe you won't get blocked from future purchases.
To be honest, our feet can get swollen sometimes depending on the time of the day, temperatures and so on.
Seller taking less $45.00 was nice of the seller.
Seller already is losing money from this sale.

That's assuming the seller is buying to sell and not cleaning out their own, or Mom/Dads closet??

Otherwise, a $45 discount, which the SELLER offered, means nothing (and meant nothing to the seller or they wouldn't have done it).

12345jamesstamps

·1 year ago

8703 View listings

Seller is spending their time packing and shipping the item to a buyer.

Now the seller has to wait it out before buyer ships it back(I had a buyer get 45 days to return an item and they didn't (a remorse) and I still had to give a refund(no other option)...must have been AI.

So seller's money is 'on hold' for a long length of time.

Buyers are sometimes not the best at packing and reshipping an item back to the seller.

I feel the time the seller used is considered 'not free time' for a lost sale when the seller could have been doing something else.

And if item is returned and when seller has to try to resell the item.

Time is money which is why some get paid by the hour in a job.

stainlessenginecovers

·1 year ago

5484 View listings

@12345jamesstamps wrote:
Seller is spending their time packing and shipping the item to a buyer.
Now the seller has to wait it out before buyer ships it back(I had a buyer get 45 days to return an item and they didn't (a remorse) and I still had to give a refund(no other option)...must have been AI.
So seller's money is 'on hold' for a long length of time.
Buyers are sometimes not the best at packing and reshipping an item back to the seller.
I feel the time the seller used is considered 'not free time' for a lost sale when the seller could have been doing something else.
And if item is returned and when seller has to try to resell the item.
Time is money which is why some get paid by the hour in a job.

That 'hold' etc. is for the limited few. I've had returns and not .01c is ever held and I don't 'wait' for anything. When it comes, if it's 'resellable' I refund. If it's not, I deduct 'up to 50%).

Time spent 'shipping' is just the costs of doing business. Nobody is immune to it.

Don't want to deal with only keeping 95 to 99% of your sales?

Don't sell online.

albertabrightalberta

·1 year ago

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.104 View listings

@12345jamesstamps wrote:

Seller taking less $45.00 was nice of the seller.
Seller already is losing money from this sale.

Not necessarily. Seller is making $45 less profit but it's the seller who knows his COG and is choosing to accept less money in order to make the sale.

How much the seller making (profit or loss) is irrelevant.

klhmdg

·1 year ago

1515 View listings

No need to go back and forth at all.

Does the listing say that the leather is stiff and dry?

If the listing description states that there are issues with the leather, I would file the I Dont Like or Doesnt Fit. As long as you return them as you received them you should get refunded the original shipping fees.

If the listing doesnt mention condition issues, I would file Not as Described.

There is no reason to argue with the seller.

buyselljack2016

·1 year ago

107 View listings

on remorse returns I do not refund original shipping paid by the buyer

raymondbitterlick

OP1 year ago

1151 View listings

Hello-- Not a "remorse" return; had I known the leather was stiff/inflexible/shrunken like this, I would not have made the purchase. The question: is the nature of "vintage" shoes that the leather will not be supple and they will not necessarily be in wearable condition?

albertabrightalberta

·1 year ago

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.104 View listings

@raymondbitterlick wrote:
Hello-- Not a "remorse" return; had I known the leather was stiff/inflexible/shrunken like this, I would not have made the purchase. The question: is the nature of "vintage" shoes that the leather will not be supple and they will not necessarily be in wearable condition?

Older shoes are subject to suffer from dry rot. They can appear new and in good shape but within hours can fall apart.

Depending on how the listing was written, that would determine whether it's NAD or remorse, IMO.

buyselljack2016

·1 year ago

107 View listings

@raymondbitterlick wrote:
Hello-- Not a "remorse" return; had I known the leather was stiff/inflexible/shrunken like this, I would not have made the purchase. The question: is the nature of "vintage" shoes that the leather will not be supple and they will not necessarily be in wearable condition?

My reply was not questioning "remorse" or "not remorse".

My reply was to another poster, (as shown by the "in response to" ) and was just to clarify that a "remorse" return may not necessarily get "original shipping" refunded.

soh.maryl

·1 year ago

110 View listings

Per the OP, the listing stated "very close to new". Cracked and brittle seems like the very opposite of that; therefore, I see this as a not as described case also.

stainlessenginecovers

·1 year ago

5484 View listings

They were old and you knew it; because you didn't know the rest does not mean the seller should

a.) eat all that shipping

b.) get a 'ding' for 'not as described' (yes, ebay dings sellers for this, get enough and they will be charged even more for their fees and or 'permabanned).

You SHOULD ship them back with the 'doesn't fit' option and eat the shipping.

raymondbitterlick

OP1 year ago

1151 View listings

Hello--

Yes I did know they were old, but I did not know that the leather is now essentially inflexible plastic.

stainlessenginecovers

·1 year ago

5484 View listings

@raymondbitterlick wrote:
Hello--

Yes I did know they were old, but I did not know that the leather is now essentially inflexible plastic.

But that is what happens to 'old' leather and you needed to know that. Because you did not, makes it 'remorse' in the fact that you didn't know that- as they say "ignorance is no defense".

They may 'look' good and 'appear' as to not be worn, which is exactly what the seller told you and stated in the listing.

Now you know- 'vintage' is shoes seldom works.

But, it appears you've already made up your mind before you even wrote this. "I am right!" is your stance, so do what you will.

If it were me, I would email them to go 50/50 with you and state "you'll throw them in the trash, taking a picture of them 'folded/cracked' in a photo and send it to them, should they agree (but till after they refund you 50%)

raymondbitterlick

OP1 year ago

1151 View listings

Hello--

Thanks again for weighing in, and you raise a very valid point. In all honesty, I was unsure when I made the community post, and I didn't make up my mind until reading the 7 or so responses when I initially checked back; I'm more confident in this being a NAD case the more postings I see. No reference in the ad at all to, "keep in mind these are vintage shoes, and as such, the buyer should be aware that the leather may no longer be as supple as it once was."

stainlessenginecovers

·1 year ago

5484 View listings

@raymondbitterlick wrote:
Hello--

Thanks again for weighing in, and you raise a very valid point. In all honesty, I was unsure when I made the community post, and I didn't make up my mind until reading the 7 or so responses when I initially checked back; I'm more confident in this being a NAD case the more postings I see. No reference in the ad at all to, "keep in mind these are vintage shoes, and as such, the buyer should be aware that the leather may no longer be as supple as it once was."

Again, ignorance is no defense. I don't sell clothing and I don't know the first thing about them, except I have learned, by reading these forums, that 'old (new) shoes can fall apart'

So if I sell you a car, I'm supposed to tell you:

'check the age of the tires as there is a code and you can google the code and if tires are over 6 years old you should replace them'

'check the voltage on the battery because even though it starts it may be getting lower in voltage'

'check the brushes inside the alternator because they may be getting low and overtime they will not touch causing a charging of the battery failure'

or If I sell you shirt, pants, jacket:

'do not wash this dark blue shirt in hot water as it may fade some of the color'

'do not add bleach directly on the colored clothes as it may put damaging permanent spots'

'Check the tag as this item may be 'dry clean only'

or...

'The batteries in this flashlight work, but the bulb may go out any day, or the batteries may die any day because i don't know how old they are'

Don't run over a rock with this lawnmower because it may fire it into your windshield

Don't run over the sprinklers with this lawmower if your sprinkler is 'above the lawn' or 'didn't shut down all the way'

etc. etc. etc.

raymondbitterlick

OP1 year ago

1151 View listings

No sense getting into a big argument, but I'm confused by your "ignorance" argument.

I was presented with photos of shoes, along with a one-sentence description promising "very close to new." Higher up on the page the seller states, "no issues." I even messaged before accepting his offer to confirm there would be nothing to preclude these from being worn to the office on a regular basis, and he confirmed the condition is as-new/excellent with no issues. That's all I had to go by.

The shoes arrived--they still looked great--but they were more akin to plastic than to leather. The left felt so uncomfortable that I didn't even bother trying the right.

Where was my "ignorance" in any of this?

If he had replied to me that he was sorry; that I should send them back on my dime and he would reimburse me for the purchase and the initial shipping, I would have been amenable. Instead he straight-armed me through eBay, and he's paying two-way shipping. I tried.

My one and only experience on Poshmark a few years back: I purchased a vivid-looking cardigan listed as a "1960s Mohair Cardigan" with merely a front and a back photo of marginal resolution and a simple description of "Excellent condition." When it arrived, the tag clearly stated polyester/made in China; it was neither mohair nor a 1960s cardigan. I filed a protest with Poshmark and lost, as they determined that "mohair is not materially different from polyester." Fortunately my credit card company saw it differently.

Kudos to eBay for not allowing sellers to peddle junk via smoke & mirrors like Poshmark evidently does, and then tells the buyer, "so sorry, but you're stuck with it."

dy60609

·1 year ago

0 View listings

Selling an item that is likely only useful for "display", expecting a buyer to know that a $100 + item is such, and doing a 50% refund? I think not how it should work.