ebay sided with buyer but USPS disposed of item before i got it back
OK long story short. I sold a Yamaha Multitrack Recorder to a buyer in Kentucky. They opened a return case and I was waiting to make sure the serial number was the same one before I Issued a full refund. Well the USPS disposed of the item and before I even knew about it the buyer opened a case against me and it closed the same day (maybe within a couple hours.) The USPS said that they disposed of it because the item was perishable.
So I ebay closed the case same day in the buyers favor so now I'm out of pocket my item and my net earnings for this order is $-30. Now if I was at fault I would 100% take it on the chin and use it as a learning lesson but I just have a gross feeling about this order. I wasnt even given a fair shake to upload any documents in the original case. Then in the appeal where I uploaded the message from the buyer with the picture of the tracking number and then a screenshot of the USPS website saying they disposed of my item they still ruled in his favor? Is this a common practice of ebay? Do they even look at the appeals or take into consideration the files us sellers upload?
To top it off, I was on the phone with the USPS and learned that he opened a claim (in my name mind you) to get the $100 of insurance money from the original tracking number. So this guy got a free $120 item ( that he's probably going to sell because I looked at his store and sells similar products.) He also got the $100 insurance money.
Sorry I kind of rambled on but Ive been needing to let someone know about this because its chapping my butt. Is there anything else I can do? I talked to ebay help yesterday and they said they was going to open the case back up because its clear that I never received the item back but on my Seller Dashboard it still is showing the case is closed in his favor?
**UPDATE** - The appeal sided in his favor, so they said my only option now is to contact USPS and try to get the insurance money back from them but obviously Ive already tried that and he beat me to it so I guess for now I'm SOL. I got to admit, this scammer is good. He covers every base to where I have no recourse. Im going to try to reach out to eBay through Facebook and gather all the documents for a Notice of Dispute as mentioned in this post.
Thank you everyone, you all have been super helpful and have given me multiple good options to go about.
xadexane
·1 year agoThose of you who said if seller pays for return shipping, then the seller is responsible for refunding if the returned item never makes it back to the seller. CORRECT.
That indeed is how eBay works.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoThat's old info, predating the launch of USPS Ground Advantage. With the launch of Ground Adv in July 2023, eBay Ground Adv return labels are insured. Seller can work with CS for coverage if there's a problem like an eBay label Ground Adv return lost in transit - there's a specific process involved. Not relevant to the original poster's situation though so I won't complicate things getting into that.
iamalwaysright
·1 year agoThis is the first I've ever heard of any buyer doing this. Few thoughts I had when I read the thread and replies up until now.
Those of you who said if seller pays for return shipping, then the seller is responsible for refunding if the returned item never makes it back to the seller. INCORRECT. There is one exception, when ebay generates the return postage and charges the seller for it. Since the postage came from ebay, they can validate that the parameters of the label are correct (package weight, size, shipping address, etc) and thus will protect you if something goes sideways. The buyer will still get their money, but it'll be out of ebay's pocket. I'm not sure if there is a max dollar limit to that or not. If you generated the postage yourself, there's no way ebay can confirm that the label hasn't been altered before you provided it to your buyer, so you'll be SOL here.
Also about the USPS insurance claims, @wastingtime101 I too never knew that the addressee is allowed to file a claim. I forget what sensitive info is required to file one, but it sounds like it's pretty easy to successfully file it with USPS. Sounds like tons of room for abuse here.
Also the buyer made one mistake, but not a huge one. They shoulda purchased from you using a guest account, not their seller account.
stephenmorgan
·1 year ago...............................................................................................................................................................................................................
pikabo-icu
·1 year ago@stephenmorgan
It says the person filing must have the original mailing receipt.
That would be the seller.. I'm still baffled by this..
wastingtime101
·1 year agoOriginal mailing receipt refers to retail postage purchases, as far as I know.
I've filed a few claims for items when postage was purchased online and never had to provide a receipt - doesn't matter if I bought the label through eBay, stamps.com, pirateship.com, paypal, or any of the other shipping providers I used.
pikabo-icu
·1 year ago@wastingtime101 But weren't you the original buyer of that label? I get it.. I know you're right, I just think this is a bad practice. One I hope doesn't get out to the less than honest buyers. Eeesh.. All we need is one more way for them to scam people.
wastingtime101
·1 year agohaha I never said I liked how it worked. It's been this way forever though. I've seen bad actors take advantage, but it's not rampant.
I think the fact that USPS started requiring buyers to turn over items + packaging for inspection reduced the amount of fraud drastically.
Also, USPS denies every.single.claim these days. Automatically. Even for clearly lost packages. Sellers need to file an appeal anywhere from 1-3 times. USPS is doing everything it can to deter people from filing claims and pursuing them through to payout.
I wouldn't worry about buyer fraud getting out of control in this area. And I'd wager the OP's scammer will be completely denied by USPS on all appeals.
stephenmorgan
·1 year agoThe original mailing receipt would need to be made available to whoever is going to make the claim.
If it is suspected that someone is trying to rip you off I doubt you would want to give them the receipt. If it is someone you are well familiar with then maybe you would give them the receipt.
Also on some secondary insurance for a mailing, they require that you allow them to make the USPS claim on your behalf so that they can get the money if the claim is approved.
pikabo-icu
·1 year ago@stephenmorgan Which is why I was shocked.. OP said his buyer filed for the insurance on the original tracking number. Without a receipt.
But like Wastingtime posted that doesn't mean they will get paid.
stephenmorgan
·1 year agoYep, I know what you mean. Sometimes things just do not make sense.
One thing maybe.
I do not exactly get a USPS receipt when I purchase shipping on eBay. I save a copy of the Shipping Label as a PDF file. With so many things being on-line it is possible that as long as the item was scanned as accepted by the USPS, then USPS has proof the item was mailed. With the $100 included insurance, a claim is possible just with the acceptance scan information.
If you had purchased hundreds of dollars of insurance then the receipt for how much insurance you paid for would be much more important. Because scanned or not, the USPS would not know if you paid for additional insurance.
12345jamesstamps
·1 year agoI had a buyer return something a few years back.
It had tracking and was in a dark plastic bag.
I sell stamps and buyer returned something in a dark plastic bag that was gooey.
Mailman didn't even attempt to deliver it...I had to go into post office to see what it was...I knew it wasn't stamps being returned to me.
I thought I was being sued or something.
Naturally, I knew the buyer on it by looking at address and buyer paid for the return with own tracking label...refusing it I lost the sale...makes a funny story though.
Sounds like the same thing that happened to you.
Only my item made it to me...LOL
stephenmorgan
·1 year agoWell obviously a Yamaha Multitrack Recorder is not a perishable item.
Ask USPS if they will provide you a written letter stating why they disposed of package.
Ask if they are able to provide you with the package details such as package size and weight. This may help you demonstrate to eBay that the item with the attempted return does not meet the same package size and weight as the one sent.
Also if you can, get some type of documentation from USPS that the buyer has made a claim with the USPS for a item that was supposedly returned to you. It may be some type of Postal Fraud with the claim being filed for a item that has been reimbursed.
Put together a sound explanation, provide the proof and then file a Notice of Dispute.
Go here for a Notice of Dispute
Notice_of_Dispute.pdf
Read this section and follow the procedures.
18 Legal Disputes User Agreement | eBay
Sometimes you may be able to resolve this by contacting eBay thru Facebook but I don't know to do this.
pikabo-icu
·1 year agoWhat I am shocked at is: The buyer claimed the insurance on the OP's original tracking number!
That should not be possible.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoEither party can file with USPS.
Only shipper can file with UPS/FedEx.
pikabo-icu
·1 year ago@wastingtime101 Holy moly! I was always under the impression that only the purchaser of the label could file.
That's actually scary. I don't believe I've ever read of this happening before.
It certainly seems fraudulent if buyer was already refunded via eBay.
IMO that's something USPS should change.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoAlso - you said this dude is a reseller of the same products. Set up a saved search for that item so you'll hopefully see if he tries to resell it on eBay.
soluna_co
OP1 year agoVery smart..will do
kensgiftshop
·1 year agoWhat was the reason for the return and who paid return shipping?
If you had to pay return shipping, you're responsible for whatever happens to the package.
If USPS said it was perishable and disposed of it, did they tell you what was in the package or why they couldn't deliver it?
soluna_co
OP1 year agoI didnt pay for return shipping, the buyer did I assume. The reasoning was INAD. Said it had dents and knobs missing.
The USPS said it was "food waste"
stephenmorgan
·1 year agoThat smells fishy.
If the Buyer acquired their own shipping then it would seem they would be responsible for the safe return of the item. If USPS confiscated/disposed of the package then the Buyer did not fulfill their return obligation, so why would eBay reimburse them?
Are you sure eBay did not charge your account for the return shipping?
wastingtime101
·1 year agoThat charge can come weeks after the fact so the seller here may not realize they're going to be billed for return shipping.
I have to call this out, because so often we see the opposite. Your replies to feedback are excellent @soluna_co . ðŸ‘
kensgiftshop
·1 year agoIf they filed an INAD, you paid the return shipping.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoThat is crazy. You already filed the appeal with eBay which was the right move, and I hope it will be found in your favor since you had no chance to respond and the scammer got eBay CS to escalate same day.
Did you report the buyer on eBay? If not, do that.
You could also file a mail fraud report with USPS since the return had something perishable and was supposed to contain the recorder.
What was the original reason for the return? Did they claim damage through eBay and is that also what they claimed with USPS insurance?
Edit to add: sorry for anything repetitive - there were no replies when I started my response.
soluna_co
OP1 year agoYea i definitely reported the buyer. And ill look into filing a mail fraud report, might be worth it at this point.
And yea that was the reasoning said there was dents and that there was knobs missing. I double boxed it with almost a full small roll of bubble wrap and newspaper, corner posts so I find that hard to believe.
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year ago@soluna_co
Have you opened a fraud claim with USPS?
United States Postal Inspection Service
I agree with @12345jamesstamps that this sounds like they did know what they were doing.
soluna_co
OP1 year agoI cant because there is already showing an open case for it. He opened the case using the original tracking number and in my name. I have contacted them and the lady I talked to at USPS was super helpful but she said all she could do was put in the notes to not pay out on this case until they get it figured out.
Im talking to USPS and eBay almost everyday until I get this resolved. Actually Im currently on the phone with eBay now. But yea I think this buyer has definitely done this before it seems and has got a system down for extracting the most money with the seller having to jump through multiple hoops. Hes probably hoping I will just take it on the chin and move on seeing as its not a huge, huge sale. I think he does that on purpose as a seller is more likely to walk away and it doesnt draw as much attention for a $120 sale as opposed to a $1200 sale.
pikabo-icu
·1 year ago@soluna_co
I would definitely be contacting USPS that insurance is for the shipper.
If they paid the buyer, they messed up!
Also contact eBay agents on their Facebook page, use a message not a post.
There are multiple issues with this case.
Explain everything as you have here and see what they say. https://www.facebook.com/ebay/
I am truly aghast at USPS! This is the first time I've ever heard of this. I would be going to my local PO and/or contacting the postmaster!
12345jamesstamps
·1 year ago'USPS said that they disposed of it because the item was perishable.
Am I assuming they sent you food or something instead of the item?
Kinda sounds like buyer knew what they were doing.
soluna_co
OP1 year agoCorrect. The PO said it wasn't just food, but food "waste." So basically he made sure the package was undeliverable so they had to throw it out.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoSo he mailed back a box of garbage. Probably leaking. What a great human.