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Buyer pulls Item not as described credit card dispute. I LOST! WHY! EBAY NO HELP!
EBAY SAYS NOTHING THEY CAN DO.
On October 25 I sold a Cigar Humidor for $74.99 +$24.99 shipping. Shipped on the Oct 31st. Delivered Nov 7
November 25th I get a email stating buyer (KE-81232) (New ebayer with zero feedback) put in a dispute with his credit card company saying item not as described. Funds on hold. NO OTHER INFO! I do an online appeal. Asked to supply futher evidence. ?? What else could I give, they have 12 photos, I shipped with ebay so they have all shipping weights and times ect. I asked for examples of futher evidence and ebay could not come up with an answer.
Jan 4th Found in Buyer's favor and ebay charged me $20 fee!!!!!! NO OTHER INFO
Jan 5th Called again, begging for help and to explain the $20 insult. Was told I did nothing wrong, good pics and description. They refunded the $20
Feb 5th Called again. Asked for supervisor. Waited 45 min until told they went home! Then told they would call back tomorrow at 11AM. Received call at 3pm.
Feb 6th Talked to supervisor: No help out of their hands. Said I could do nothing to avoid this and ebay can't or will not help, and it can happen again. Part of doing business.
Buyer never returned item. Zero feedback buyer. I have been a ebay part time seller for 24 years. 100% positive feedback. 12k items sold. Ebay took funds anyway. Buyer stole item, ebay stole money! Ebay cleared the payment so I could ship item, and ebay cleared this buyer! then took the funds back say only "item doesn't match the description"
This should be ebay fight. This is an obvious scam and ebay should fight it, not just allow it to happen.
kh-taylarie
·1 year agoDue to the age of this thread, it will be locked in order to keep discussions current. If you have the same or a similar question/issue we invite you to start a new thread on the topic.
mikeystoyz
·2 years agoFile a police report with the guys city? If you used usps and have proof of delivery file mail fraud. It might not do anything but if the person does it enough the PO will take action. I had a guy rip me off for 50 bucks and I mailed the item over state lines. Turns out this guy did it to a whole lot of people. He ended up with 3 years in prison when all was said and done.
A person commits mail fraud when he engages in a scheme to defraud, with intent to defraud, and uses the mails in furtherance of that scheme. A scheme to defraud means depriving someone of property by deceitful or dishonest means. The scheme need not involve an affirmative misrepresentation or lie.
wayneosjewelry
·1 year agopeople think its the first time crooks do this but they usually have a rap sheet a mile long.
blackberry_hills
·2 years agoI am in the middle of an identical "item not as described" scam. I'll keep you posted as to how eBay handles it. If eBay sides with the scammers on this, this type of fraud won't stop. First, I had three separate instances from 3 different buyers, each having zero feedback, purchase an item at $115 each. All the same item. Then, they started a return, claiming the item was defective. They each returned a black mask worth about 10 cents. Ebay initially sided with all of these buyers. I appealed and they reversed their decisions on all three. I don't know if eBay sent money to any of these buyers. But if they did, this would only be fuel to keep the fraud going.
Now, the new scam is for the buyer to receive the item and claim with their card company that the item is not as described, without returning anything. They're trying to cash in on a possible vulnerability in eBay's system. But how anyone would agree to refund a buyer in such a situation is beyond comprehension, whether it's a person's credit card company or eBay. Even if the item was not described properly, it still has to be returned in order to be refunded. If there is a refund to be made to the buyer, the item would belong to the seller. That only makes sense, and is the only ethical procedure.
And by the way, this time, the buyer who is claiming the item was not as described with us, purchased the same $115 item from us that was involved with the last three black mask scams. They are sure trying hard to get that item for free. Furthermore, we've been selling this item for 14 years on various eBay users, and have a 5 star "item as described" rating on eBay, along with a 100% positive feedback. So we will see.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoThe credit card companies are in over their heads with these. And do not have enough resources to really figure all of these charge backs out. The scamming theft public take advantage of that. However, they only get so many times feeding their piggy faces into the trough before the card company send them out for slaughter. Naughty little piggies.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoSorry, but once the buyer goes to their credit card, there's not much Ebay can/will do, it's up to the credit card company.
techtodd1
OP2 years agoGood luck. I do not understand why anybody would ever send any money back without getting the item back first. I’m talking to you eBay!! The credit card company too! The buyer is stealing the item and eBay/credit card companies are stealing the money. Won’t even let me deal with the credit card company myself
wayneosjewelry
·1 year agohi,we just had a buyer want a refund for a necklace.she said it was poorly made/defective. i knew there was a problem with her because the necklace was in like new condition. ebay sent her a label for the return and she used the label to send a small card that said she uses a different shipper. we still have not received the necklace back. we reported her with pictures of our postman holding the card to ebay. ebay used seller protection to resolve this. we got to keep the money but ebay paid her the refund.so she got the 100.00 necklace and the money back from ebay. 0 feedback buyer.
mudshark61369
·2 years ago@techtodd1,
Sounds like there is a new scam showing up. It is going to work as long as any shopping site uses a 3rd party payment processing service, that a buyer can use to bypass the site's returns policy. In this case ebay only knows that Adyen (the Managed Payment service located in Holland) approved the charge back. They probably never informed ebay, about the charge back being requested, they just told them to charge your account the $20 charge back fee after they refunded the funds.
Since you seem to auction all of your items
When I had my B&M store, if a charge back by a credit card provider was started, I was informed about it by the card company, and had a chance to respond to the claim, but then I had a unique vendor account with the card companies whose cards I accepted. As an ebay seller you do not have one of those, since Adyen is the middle man.
I doubt any of ebay's reps, not even the ones on their social media sites, who have much more power than the call/chat center reps do, can help you with this one. The changes needed to counteract the scam would most likely have to come from way up the pay scale ladder, and the people at those exalted heights, tend to insulate themselves from daily operation issues, and don't take kindly to being told they goofed at some point, even if it was inadvertent.
Still you can always try to contact ebay's reps on Facebook or Instagram, (links below) and tell them about your issue. I doubt they can get you a refund of the fee, but they may be able to pass it up the chain of command.

https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/ — Message button in upper right on landing page.
https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/
You may want to suggest to the rep who handles your message, that they do an online search for the Federal "Fair Credit Billing Act" It does state that a vendor has a right to dispute a charge back with the banking institution that provided the card or the card company itself if it was not issued by a bank.
Your last option, speak to a lawyer.
rseuqinh
·2 years agoSorry, but that is not correct. That's because the rules already state that the buyer must have made a valid attempt to resolve the dispute with the merchant. The credit card issuer requires that valid attempt, first.
And for most buyers, that means attempting to contact the merchant by phone or email.
Unfortunately that's impossible because eBay has blocked all avenues at phone and email and help, so
- the buyer can point the credit card issuer to that phone number and missing email address
- the credit card issuer can try to call that number and it fails
- the issuer deems that an honestly valid attempt was made to resolve the dispute with the merchant
and proceeds onward with the chargeback, doh.
techtodd1
OP2 years agoNo attempt was made through me or ebay to resolve. Buyers are going straight to chargeback. Saying not as discribed, getting refund and never returning item. Ebay stated all they can do is ask buyer to return item. My case they did not.
If no return no refund! Change the laws! Ebay, Amazon, Walmart, get these laws changed! Protect your sellers!
monster-deals
·2 years agoThey most certainly can, they choose not to.
Rampant chargebacks is a problem that ebay just will not get out in front of until they are forced to.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoI had a buyer last month do a dispute on a credit card with their bank...from a purchase over 260 days ago. And the buyer was no longer registered on eBay.
eBay has to allow it...my funds got put on hold if you can believe it.
Yes, I fought it and won.
As far as documentation....I used a Christmas photo of my wife's Barbie and Ken scene for documentation. So, documentation has nothing to do with a chargeback. It's all about what bank it is. And it's usually out of the hands of eBay.
"New eBayer will zero feedback"...I will never ship anything more than 5 bucks of a purchase to such a person.
I understand we all had zero feedback at one time. But when a seller does tracking and it shows item "delivered"...it appears a seller is not covered so as I read this...Correct?
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoThat's strange because the LAST chargeback I got- ebay stated "you have a chargeback but we have you covered with Seller Protection blah blah (paraphrasing) and about 2 months later I got a message that 'a decision was made and you are not at fault" (again, paraphrasing).
So, seller protection or ??
techtodd1
OP2 years agoCorrect. Anybody can pull this scam. Maybe not more then once or only once in a while, even then they just get refused by card company. No punishment, no criminal charges. No slap on hand even! Just get the refund rejected. Don’t understand how this is allowed to continue!
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoNeed I mention that the sellers on here who state NO RETURNS ACCEPTED are putting themselves at huge risks for a chargeback. My advice, do not do it especially with a high value item.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoWhat needs to change are the rules involving the chargeback for the consumer. Right now customers can BYPASS the merchant and go straight tothe card. THAT is the problem. The reformed rules should state that you seek your refund FIRST through the merchant. IF merchant refuses to cooperate, then use your protection with the chargeback. Complain, Complain, and complain to your congressman to get the laws changed.
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoOnly problem with that is MOST try to 'go through the entity FIRST' (ebay) and THEN, they go to their CC...which
a.) has NO idea the 'buyer' went through the entity first
b.) it is 'ignored' if they DO know it
So, none of that will work. As you stated, the system needs to be changed so that a SELLER has the 'direct' info to the bank and can provide DIRECTLY to the bank, the info needed.
techtodd1
OP2 years agoI think a lot just go card company first. That was my case. No return request, no complaints, no communication at all. Just the chargeback. They keep item and money. eBay stated that accepting returns would make no difference in this case.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoSome customers may not understand the proper process for obtaining a refund. Yes, they may choose the card first because they may not understand that they simply just need to contact the merchant for the refund. Now, in a situation on here where sellers are stating NO RETURNS on their item, THEN, i would surmise that some may think the only way to get a refund would be to go directly to the card. Which is incorrect for sure but some may think that. That is why using no returns on listings is a dangerous thing. You have to reduce your risks for a chargeback anywhere and that includes offering returns on all items.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoIMO it would make no difference if seller had the card company info to dispute the chargeback. These chargebacks are the devil incarnate right now with these laws with very little protection for the merchant. However a well written rebuttal could help enormously.
generic_store_name
·2 years agoIt's true. There's nothing Ebay can do. It's in the hands of the credit card company, and every buyer in the U.S. who uses a credit card has the right to request a chargeback because it's part of federal consumer protection law.
techtodd1
OP2 years agoYes I know about the federal consumer protection law. Problem is it is being used as a scam tool. And the allmighty ebay is not addressing this abuse. Maybe some sort of ebay policy stating no refund without return.
How can keeping item and getting refund ever be ok with ebay?
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoIt is simply NOT UP TO ebay, or Amazon, or Walmart or ANYWHERE.com. It's even that way with a Brick & Mortar Store. If a store gets a chargeback, the bank, nor the store, have ANY way of FORCING a buyer to 'return' the item.
techtodd1
OP2 years agoI am saying that Federal consumer protection law is being used to scam sellers and something should be done. when should a buyer get to keep both funds and items, even if a mistake was made.
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoYes- it is being abused by Millions. You'll have to hammer on your local congressman to have a law implemented. Till then- it will continue. Kinda like a store having 'shrink' (theft etc.). If you sell enough, it's less than .001%.
techtodd1
OP2 years agoAlso please note that the description was mostly the 12 photos. Hard to understand how it was not as described! Scammers getting away with it and ebay knows and is not addressing issue.
bonjourami
·2 years agoPhotos are never accepted as any proof of the item, they can be doctored.
generic_store_name
·2 years agoThe CC company/bank takes money from Ebay, not you, because that's the entity that received it. Ebay then takes the money from you. So, the entity to fight the chargeback must be Ebay, which is why they won't give you the bank's contact info.
I also assume Ebay makes money regardless of the outcome, because the $20 fee seems like more than enough to pay their outsourced labor to click a few buttons. AFAIK, nowhere in any user agreement is Ebay required to fight a chargeback claim in good faith.
So in summary: Yes, you were scammed. No, there's nothing you can really do about it. You might be able to claim the loss as a tax deduction. Ask an accountant. You might need a police report or something to do it. IANAL
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoMost of that is NOT accurate.
There is NO fighting a chargeback because if you are willing to sell on a site that takes credit cards, chargebacks happen and you just have to accept the banks decision. If you do not like that-best bet is cash in person.
The $20 fee is simply a Pass Through that the Bank Charges the Entity if a 'seller' doesn't just 'pay up', so when ebay responds back to the bank, that $20 is charged BY the bank IF the bank decides in favor of their customer.
Therefore, the $20 is NOT even coming from ebay.
generic_store_name
·2 years agoTurns out your information about the $20 fee is mostly accurate. So thanks for that. Whether a fee is charged depends on the bank CCC. But this is total **bleep**:
"There is NO fighting a chargeback because if you are willing to sell on a site that takes credit cards, chargebacks happen and you just have to accept the banks decision. If you do not like that-best bet is cash in person."
The merchant absolutely has the opportunity to refute the chargeback and provide supporting evidence. You even admit so here: "IF the bank decides in favor of their customer". Because Ebay is the payment processor, they are considered the merchant, not the seller.
techtodd1
OP2 years agoI agree. Big business eBay should be the one on the front line of this fight. eBay should be able to use common sense to figure out who is scamming who in situations like this. And when it’s an obvious scam like I feel mine was even if they can’t win it for me they should not be charging me $20.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoOnce they go to their credit card, not much Ebay can/will do, it's up to their credit card company to decide.
techtodd1
OP2 years agoEbay will not give me their card company info so I can contact them. Makes me think twice about selling expensive items on ebay, as ebay is not able to protect sellers. Youtube has of videos on this issue.
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoYoutube has videos on "How to Get ANYTHING from ANYWHERE for free'- 1000's of them!!!
ChargeBack is something that if you or your entity, wants to accept, you (or the entity) agree to 'chargebacks' and agree that 'the bank decides'.
That is EVERYWHERE and has been for decades.
techtodd1
OP2 years agoJust want to note the buyer never communicated with me in any way. They did not attempt to use the ebay return policy at all. They would have to return it if they did.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoI have had a few of these on here as well. In one case scammer filed chargeback right after we shipped the item. I promptly recalled the package. Scammer did not win at that one. Had another one awhile back where buyer started the I did not get it scam when the package showed delivered to their address on file. I won that one because it was absolutely delivered. Same scammer then opened a Not as described claim right after the I did not get it scam. I uploaded a file to ebay to present for the rebuttal to the credit card company. I won that one as well. If you show evidence that these were scams there are times, not always, depends on the status of your account with ebay, they will refund you the money back EVEN if the CC rules in buyers favor. You do just never know how these chargebacks will pan out though. They are NASTY.